I was taking a look at the Michigan recruits this morning and noticed something odd. They have a running back (Kingston Davis) who is 3 stars, yet is ranked number 1 at his position according to rivals. I then went to 247 sports to look at his rating there. They have have him with a composite score of about 85 and number 4 ranked RB. Trey sneed on the other hand, has a composite score of about 87 but is ranked in the 50s at RB. That makes no sense. How can Sneed have a higher rating, but be ranked 45 spots lower. Is this Michigan guy a Fullback? What am I missing?
Another reason why I don't trust ratings
- Thread starter biazza38
- Start date
Completely different style of back.
Davis is a big, pounding, between the tackles kind of back. With Michigan landing 4- real impressive highly ranked ol, and the offense dresno runs they could do some good things.
Snead is a powerfully built kid, has some wiggle. Reminds me of the Tyrone moss kid that played at Miami a few years ago. Probably the 2nd best running back in the state of Florida. Very happy with this kid.
Davis is a big, pounding, between the tackles kind of back. With Michigan landing 4- real impressive highly ranked ol, and the offense dresno runs they could do some good things.
Snead is a powerfully built kid, has some wiggle. Reminds me of the Tyrone moss kid that played at Miami a few years ago. Probably the 2nd best running back in the state of Florida. Very happy with this kid.
247 is all over the place. If you look at Sewercuse they only have 2 commits with P5 offers, the others have no offers or offers from Yale, Towson, Old Domionion etc. Yet their average commit is the same as RU average commit.
We have at least 10 guys with 3 or more P5 offers.
We have at least 10 guys with 3 or more P5 offers.
Yes, the Michigan guy is being rated as a fullback (FB vs RB), at least according to 247.
247's model is bad, IMHO. They have their own ratings plus the "composite" rating which makes it confusing. They also have way too broad a range of ratings that equal three stars. Rivals seems the best to me. A rivals four star has typically earned it and you can be pretty sure that they think a three star is solid. No one site is perfect however.
I noticed Claypool is a four star with everyone but Rivals and 247 (and he's an 89 there). Would love to get this kid.
I noticed Claypool is a four star with everyone but Rivals and 247 (and he's an 89 there). Would love to get this kid.
Ratings services are for the fans/masses......no the coaching staffs. They are intended to generate interest/revenue/popularity & cache for their sites. It is no different than what they are slowly taking the place of......things like Athlon magazine. There are bound to be inconsistencies or errors.
They do matter to the coaches though. If a kid is a rivals four star he will always find a landing spot because coaches want to move up those rankings, even if they don't admit it. Some recruiters even get bonuses based on ability to get highly rated recruits (as determiend by those same ratings services).
Your absolutely right. Keep in mind that Cuse have taken kids without P5 offers early that ended up with several towards signing day. Happened the last 2 recruiting classes.
Forget the rating services. Look at what offers the recruit has. Peoples' jobs depend on the latter not the former.
As far as rating services go, I usually look at the 4 major services (Rivals, Scout, 247, and ESPN) and make my opinion based on all 4 ratings. I would say probably 95% of the time either all 4 ratings are about the same for the player or 3 of the 4 are the same and there is one outlier.
The one exception is the mods here on this site who also help rate for NJVarsity.com. I trust them more than anything else. Thats because their opinion is based almost entirely from seeing them in person in a game rather than only from a combine or seeing a 2 minute video. They have boasted that someone on the staff will see a live game of just about every player from every team in NJ at least once during the season. Over the years they have been proven right time after time. This year may be another example of that, since they had Dorian Miller rated way higher than any of the 4 star OL of that year even though Rivals had Miller as a low three star.
The one exception is the mods here on this site who also help rate for NJVarsity.com. I trust them more than anything else. Thats because their opinion is based almost entirely from seeing them in person in a game rather than only from a combine or seeing a 2 minute video. They have boasted that someone on the staff will see a live game of just about every player from every team in NJ at least once during the season. Over the years they have been proven right time after time. This year may be another example of that, since they had Dorian Miller rated way higher than any of the 4 star OL of that year even though Rivals had Miller as a low three star.
Give me a B1G, strong,, fast quick RB with a wiggle and I will take him in a heartbeat. I don't care what is star count and rating is.
I like the 247 composite. Mitigates the bias of any one recruiting service and Rivals uses a scale of up to 6 in addition to the star rankings. That seems like using the IP system instead of the metric system if you ask me.
its strange that they are listing him as a fb because michigan recuited him to play rb. rivals list him as 242 lbs. they just just talked to the kid and his coach and they said he weighs 226 and michigan coaches told hime they would like him to be at 220 when he makes it to campus its silly he is not a fullback
FB vs. RB is splitting hairs. Just because a player is rated at a certain position, that doesn't mean that's what they'll play in college - or even what they're being recruited for. A guy might be listed as a FB on recruiting sites, but schools want him as a RB (as in this case).
Sanu was ranked as a Safety. DC Jefferson as a QB. Milewski as a Tight End. Joe Lefeged, Eric Foster, Brian Leonard and George Johnson as Linebackers. Jason McCourty as a running back. Khas Greene, Nadir Barnwell, and Tim Brown as Athletes (Rivals version of Jeopardy's "potpourri").
Sanu was ranked as a Safety. DC Jefferson as a QB. Milewski as a Tight End. Joe Lefeged, Eric Foster, Brian Leonard and George Johnson as Linebackers. Jason McCourty as a running back. Khas Greene, Nadir Barnwell, and Tim Brown as Athletes (Rivals version of Jeopardy's "potpourri").
Why not just look at the 247 composite rating? It is the same thing that you are looking at.
So explain to me what is the composite rating? And how does a 5.0-6.5 scale at Rivals translates to a 100 point scale at 247? I am not sure it is what you think it is.
There not a single coach in college coach who going to offer a kid just based on rivals star system. They could care less about those rankings. In the end it winning games that will keep your job not recruiting rankings.
http://247sports.com/Article/247Rating-Explanation-81574
They don't give away their proprietary formula but they do say that they take the 4 major publicly available services (I assume that to mean scout, rivals, 247, and espn) and equally weight them to create their composite. I believe most other services use a 70 to 100 scale so I imagine they just set 5.0 = 70 and 6.5 = 100 and scale it linearly?
James Franklin gets a major hard on for those rankings, not a single coach looks at those rankings? Um no EVERY coach looks at the rankings, it's inevitable. Every recruit looks at them, know how good other guys in their class are 'perceived' and certainly base decisions on that.
Before everything went down last year do u remember Myles harts field saying point blank that based on the other high caliber recruits they signed, that's why he chose pen state?
You were all over those rankings when you thought you were getting the NJ top 10 kids.
It's what Jason said. Easy to follow and much better than manually going to all four sites.
You completely missed my point. They are not going to offer the kid based on what rivals rate the kid. The original poster said that schools will offer a kid just based on having stars. Of course they are aware of them and our going to use it to help sell the program. If you have a highly ranked class of course you are going to point that out. That doesn't mean that you use them to determine who to offer. Every school recruit kids based on their own evaluation, not based on rivals or scouts ect.
A coach might glance at ratings, but they don't offer based on ratings. The ratings however are based on many of the same criteria that coaches are looking at: size, speed, individual and team successes, quality of competition, quality of program they come from, how ready to play now, what is the projected ceiling, performances in camps, and even whom else is recruiting the prospect.
What is a myth is the idea that a coach doesn't want 4-5 Star prospects, instead preferring "their guys", or guys who bleed the school colors. Coaches want the best talent available. Sabah and Meyer didn't have big Star guys at Michigan State or Utah because they couldn't get them there. But as soon as they were at LSU/Alabama or Florida/OSU they recruited them. Dantonio didn't have too many of them early at MSU and fans talked about how they would rather see their team get "guys who get it" and develop them. But Dantonio is less interested in those 3 Star players now that he can get some 4 Star guys. Harbaugh is taking some three Star guys this year because he needs to to fill out his class even if he is getting some big names. He will never take as many 3 Star guys again at Michigan if he has a good year.
What is a myth is the idea that a coach doesn't want 4-5 Star prospects, instead preferring "their guys", or guys who bleed the school colors. Coaches want the best talent available. Sabah and Meyer didn't have big Star guys at Michigan State or Utah because they couldn't get them there. But as soon as they were at LSU/Alabama or Florida/OSU they recruited them. Dantonio didn't have too many of them early at MSU and fans talked about how they would rather see their team get "guys who get it" and develop them. But Dantonio is less interested in those 3 Star players now that he can get some 4 Star guys. Harbaugh is taking some three Star guys this year because he needs to to fill out his class even if he is getting some big names. He will never take as many 3 Star guys again at Michigan if he has a good year.
Stars are like PR for coaches, I'd imagine. Enough good PR (lots of highly rated recruits) can add to momentum on the recruiting trail - but they're not using them to base their decisions on.
