I know, but Grant was 1-6 today, he wasn't shooting well. I agree w you, I would have hoped he would come out of it. Martini has played Wolf before, so maybe that played into it also?
Anyone else have a problem with Grant and Dortchs minutes?
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Huh?
You can’t just pin the loss on Ace.
Martini and Hayes getting 35 minutes and contributing only 6 points on 2/7 three point shooting is a huge reason we lost as well.
Pikiell rode them way too long when the game was there for the taking. They contributed almost zilch for an extended period of time.
You have a soft spot for “Zak”.
The rotations had nothing to do with why we lost today. 7 of the guys playing shooting 20% overall and 1-18 are why we lost.
We know guys like zak and pj arent good enough
Rutgers lost because Ace was dreadful...newsflash Harper didnt play
Jmike and Acuff played well enough to keep us close. JD and zak provided D and toughness. Ace did nothing today...3-15 fg...pretty simple why we lost
I mean you can. It's the reason. No Dylan on a team that struggles to score requires Ace to deliver in order to win
We win this game if Ace has an average game
We will lose every single game Harper is out and Ace struggles to score
Ace coming up small today is definitely a big reason why we lost…..but we also shouldn’t ignore how guys like Martini and Hayes continue to bring almost nothing on offense despite getting plenty of minutes and good opportunities from behind the arc. Most of their shots aren’t even close to going in.
If these guys got hot for one damn game when Ace was struggling we could still win.
But I’m not holding my breath.
Sorry but we didn’t bring in guys like “Zak” and PJ to play tough for 35 minutes.
We brought them in to hit shots from the perimeter and they continue to fail.
Stop giving them a free pass.
I get it’s almost impossible to win without Harper and a bad game from Ace…but that’s because our supporting players collectively can’t produce.
And can you please stop calling him “Zak” lol.
Except that Michigan made it a point to double and triple ACE who did not have his jump shot today and to ACE’s credit he passed it to wide open Martini or PJ , who didn’t pull the trigger 2x . So on a night we got 10 points from ACE , we still should have won the game. The defense for 35 minutes was outstanding and pressuring the ball was the best it was all year. Michigan had a hard time getting into their offense. So all you needed was something more than 1 made shot from ZACH or PJ or more playing time for Acuff or Grant to get you a bucket or 2. The game was within 3 or 4 points for about 6-7 minutes when we couldn’t shoot straight. The game was there for the taking by the supporting cast even with ACE’s struggles. What a missed opportunity.
The bac comments are almost as if he's had a counseling session on a weekly basis in regards to how good the Ivy League players are and how they can play at this level.
I posted in the other thread....Michigan has stationary bigs who are plodding and not leapers....to counter a big that's not mobile, you need athletic ability, length and quickness to offset power. Zach Martini at 6'6, offers some strength at point of contact but is not going to out jump or be quicker to cut off passing lanes.....and he's not going to dribble-drive past either player on offense.
There are games where Ace is going to see a double team and there are coaches that don't double Ace (Northwestern) and others that will (Michigan).
Martini specifically was brought into the program to knock down 3s, so when Ace or Dylan are drawing defensive players towards him. That was the plan for teams willing to double Ace.
The expectations are for Ace to be the best player in CBB every night and to "work harder" and to let Martini have a free pass??? It's that logical for you??
There's 13 out of 14 Power 4/5 games Martini has played and he's 9 of 31 from 3 in those gamea.....29% from 3.....he shot close to 39% at Princeton last year.
The 29% would be fine, if it was somewhat consistent....but FOUR of the nine 3s, were in one game (at Nebraska).
I have 12 other power 4/5 games and he's 5 for 26 from 3, which is 19%.....i believe Derek Simpson, JMike in that large of a sample size shoot better than 19% from 3 and both have either been ran out of town by the message boards here (Simpson) or deemed as someone that shouldn't shoot (JMike).
Its a very LARGE sample size of data of games against opponents not named Monmouth, St Peters, Merrimack etc. This is the B1G or Vegas tournament sample size and the type of opponents the rest of the way....its Maryland, Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, Oregon USC etc the rest of the way.....
At what point does 5 of 26 from 3, for a player specifically brought into o hit 3s, register in your thought processing?? There's no other place where he contributes in terms of playmaking, rebounding, generating offense off the dribble etc.
Asking Ace to work harder is fine, I have the same huge expectations for that type of player, but what's the floor or bare minimum we can ask for, in 27 minutes of play?? 3 PTS, 2 Boards and 2 assists???
I posted in the other thread....Michigan has stationary bigs who are plodding and not leapers....to counter a big that's not mobile, you need athletic ability, length and quickness to offset power. Zach Martini at 6'6, offers some strength at point of contact but is not going to out jump or be quicker to cut off passing lanes.....and he's not going to dribble-drive past either player on offense.
There are games where Ace is going to see a double team and there are coaches that don't double Ace (Northwestern) and others that will (Michigan).
Martini specifically was brought into the program to knock down 3s, so when Ace or Dylan are drawing defensive players towards him. That was the plan for teams willing to double Ace.
The expectations are for Ace to be the best player in CBB every night and to "work harder" and to let Martini have a free pass??? It's that logical for you??
There's 13 out of 14 Power 4/5 games Martini has played and he's 9 of 31 from 3 in those gamea.....29% from 3.....he shot close to 39% at Princeton last year.
The 29% would be fine, if it was somewhat consistent....but FOUR of the nine 3s, were in one game (at Nebraska).
I have 12 other power 4/5 games and he's 5 for 26 from 3, which is 19%.....i believe Derek Simpson, JMike in that large of a sample size shoot better than 19% from 3 and both have either been ran out of town by the message boards here (Simpson) or deemed as someone that shouldn't shoot (JMike).
Its a very LARGE sample size of data of games against opponents not named Monmouth, St Peters, Merrimack etc. This is the B1G or Vegas tournament sample size and the type of opponents the rest of the way....its Maryland, Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, Oregon USC etc the rest of the way.....
At what point does 5 of 26 from 3, for a player specifically brought into o hit 3s, register in your thought processing?? There's no other place where he contributes in terms of playmaking, rebounding, generating offense off the dribble etc.
Asking Ace to work harder is fine, I have the same huge expectations for that type of player, but what's the floor or bare minimum we can ask for, in 27 minutes of play?? 3 PTS, 2 Boards and 2 assists???
Free pass? They've already been excoriated here for the most part. They are what they are. We know the roster Pike created was a failure
Zak was good for todays purpose which was a grind it out game limiting mistakes. Likely wont be vs Illinois which figures and its likely Grant sees more minutes
+10 for todays game by the way
This is exactly what I’m talking about with the free pass for your boy “Zak”.
Did he play good defense? Yes.
But 3 points on 1/4 from three (with an air ball mixed in) in 27 minutes is NOT GOOD.
The plus or minus is a phantom stat, i think he was on the court for both of the last few possessions where Derkack got to the FT line and when JMike hit the 3 at the buzzer. I don't know if Marrini was on the court when Acuff hit his 3 pointer with 6 seconds left, I'd have to see the lineup
Here are the stats that improve the team and roster, which is defense and rebounding.....both were exploited and major issues earlier in the season and have improved dramatically since the game when Grant was subbed in vs Wisconsin, down 33 to 17 ..
Since the Wisconsin game, here are the rebounding stats. Some is skewed because Ogbole has missed the last 3 games vs Sparty, Northwestern and Michigan, but someone has to defend and rebound in conference games.
Dylan Grant has 27 rebounds in 159 minutes of play (8 games) from Wisconsin forward.....he added 7 blocked shots and 1 steal.
Bryce Dortch has 8 rebounds in just 25 minutes of play (3 games)....add one block and a steal.
Sommerville has 36 rebounds in 178 minutes of play since Wisconsin....just 1 blocked shot and 6 steals
Martini has 11 rebounds in 112 minutes of play from Wisconsin....he adds 1 block and 2 steals.
Common sense math would indicate that Grant and Dortch playing more minutes, clearly helps with rebounding and defense. Ace Bailey and Sommerville can help as well.
The play of Grant and Dortch are not setting the world on fire, but games in the B1G are usually within 5 to 6 points and probably a 3 to 4 point game with 4 minutes left......every possession or extra rebounds or steals or deflections matters when you play close games....like FT shooting and other variables as well.
If I add in the 19 steals in the last 11 games from JMike Davis, which I posted on other threads AND mix in his 10 of 29 from 3 point range and 30 assists to just 6 turnovers in his last 11 games, these are pieces to the puzzle that matter.....these are trends in the right direction, supported by the numbers.
Ace Bailey has not shot well at all in recent home games and the margins of defeat vs Michigan State and Michigan specifically with no contributions from Dylan Harper has been kept alive because we shored up the rebounding and gotten some productivity elsewhere. It just comes down to numbers that impact the game and not a phantom plus minus stat.
I have 11 rebounds in 112 minutes for Martini, on top of erratic shooting from 3 that doesn't offset the lack of rebounding, etc......Someone not named Ace Bailey has to rebound the ball and that has to come from the 3 other freshman IMO. Add Dylan Harper back into the lineup for the minutes where Derkack and JWill short-circuit or go haywire and these numbers if put on the floor consistently, will win games.
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A lot of words and analyses on both sides trying to make a conclusive point on something that seems like more of "who know's if the minutes distribution was slanted more toward Grant and Dortch, whether the outcome would have been different. There are very few and I mean very very few sure things with this team. While Martini's track record for generating offense is spotty at best, Grant is not lighting it up and thinking he would clean up against second chance opportunities against Michigan's size is a very optimistic view. Dortch seems very raw to me with little to no offensive game. Has he scored a point yet? The definitive reason for favoring Grant and Dortch would be if Pike's mindset has move toward development for next season. That is a different discussion.
If you wanted to make a case for a guy to get more minutes based on an offensive need, it is Acuff. He was the only semi-reliable relief valve for Ace when he faced a double team to keep the defense honest. While JMike's shot was falling more than ever today he tends to get more of his opportunities in transition or on drives which is tough against Michigan's size. Michigan was not going to let Ace beat them and that contributed to his poor showing. They made his shot selection more difficult than normal, forced him to pass the ball out of the double team and tried to make him work on the other end to tire him out. Every team should play us that way since the supporting cast without DH is just not very good or reliable for night to night. Ace is a freshman and this was not the first or last time he will have game like this.
If you wanted to make a case for a guy to get more minutes based on an offensive need, it is Acuff. He was the only semi-reliable relief valve for Ace when he faced a double team to keep the defense honest. While JMike's shot was falling more than ever today he tends to get more of his opportunities in transition or on drives which is tough against Michigan's size. Michigan was not going to let Ace beat them and that contributed to his poor showing. They made his shot selection more difficult than normal, forced him to pass the ball out of the double team and tried to make him work on the other end to tire him out. Every team should play us that way since the supporting cast without DH is just not very good or reliable for night to night. Ace is a freshman and this was not the first or last time he will have game like this.
I haven't given any free pass if youve read my posts. Today he was solid and the right move by Pike. Has nothing to do with points. Dont worry his minutes likely sliced for Illinois
“Zak was good” is a free pass lmfao.
I see you’ve already downgraded him to solid though.
And FFS his name is Zach.
Agree with those saying we needed Martini out there for D.
Those saying Ace shot blanks must not have been watching. They were face guarding him for starters. For those that don't know that means one player was just physically grappling Ace and not watching anyone else on our team. When we did get him the ball he was doubled immediately and on a few occasions he beat the double and they had another 7 footer waiting for him. We had guys wide open for 3's all day and they did a good job scrambling and running out but we also missed wide open shots. Of course he shot better at NW but refs were calling fouls that game. The refs let them play yesterday. Tough to shoot when you're getting held and face guarded and doubled all game long. Sorry it's not even close to being on him at all.
Also the reverse dunk on the 7 footer was electric. Enjoy watching him. He is elite.
Those saying Ace shot blanks must not have been watching. They were face guarding him for starters. For those that don't know that means one player was just physically grappling Ace and not watching anyone else on our team. When we did get him the ball he was doubled immediately and on a few occasions he beat the double and they had another 7 footer waiting for him. We had guys wide open for 3's all day and they did a good job scrambling and running out but we also missed wide open shots. Of course he shot better at NW but refs were calling fouls that game. The refs let them play yesterday. Tough to shoot when you're getting held and face guarded and doubled all game long. Sorry it's not even close to being on him at all.
Also the reverse dunk on the 7 footer was electric. Enjoy watching him. He is elite.
Zak was good on defense and solid overall to be playing..is that better
dont worry sweets next game you will get your wish
Zach was okay on defense but our ball pressure on their guards was the best all year and we turned them over a lot and got a lot of steals. He picked up an offensive foul on 1 play where he was tossed like a rag doll. I will give him that. But at crunch time not so much as Goldin got a bunch of layups.
On the other hand , the rest of his game was putrid , not creating anything , not efficient shooting , not rebounding , not even trying to drive to get a foul call. The absence of even trying a mid range shot by him and the whole team was costly and led to the L. Taking 36 three point shots was low IQ and a terrible coaching job by Pike. He didn’t try to get ACE a mid range shot and Martini and PJ didn’t even try to get into the 12-15 foot range to take a shot. You make 4-5 mid range shots and that game is a W for us. Martini and PJ as seniors or grad transfers should have a better IQ to do that or worse if you think they are incapable of putting the ball on the floor and getting that shot.
No it’s not better.
27 minutes with 1 made 3 pointer (including an air ball and hesitation to shoot other open 3 pointers) is not good, or solid.
His defense was decent.
Big whoop when he eats up a ton of minutes and provides zilch on offense.
And my wish is for him to make some damn shots.
I not in favor of 18 year olds being under pressure to be ready for the pro's in one season.
I think a two year minimun would be acceptable in - comparison.
This is not what college basketball was.
I think a two year minimun would be acceptable in - comparison.
This is not what college basketball was.
Not sure what "under pressure to be ready for thr pro's in one season" means.
19 year olds can't be ready for the NBA?
That's certainly not true.
In fact, generally Top 3-5 picks who are 18-19 years old are ready.
They are athletic, long and low bball IQ. Opposite of Martini and Derkack. If Grant stopped shooting 3s I’d be all in on him getting 20+ minutes a game.
Did you know Grant has a higher three point percentage than Martini this year? Also the way Derkack drives to the hoop with no vision I wouldn’t say he has a high basketball iq
Why? He has hit 2 in a game more times than Martini. Take out Nebraska and Martini is criminally bad from 3. The difference between wins and losses this year was 1 or maybe 2 made threes that Zach failed at. Or just make a play late like Texas A& M or at the end of the first half against Alabama. Anything he could have given us during crucial possessions that ended up with zero might have cost us 3 games. 3 resume worthy wins not some cupcake.
Dylan Grant is athletic and is also a freshman that has not played as much as he should have earlier in the year. But he can get you an offensive rebound and putback and block a shot something I do not think Martini has done all year.
No, he does not.
He’s shooting 30.4% from 3 and Martini is shooting 34%. Neither is good enough.
I don’t think Derkack has a high IQ, but it’s smart to attack the rim and try to get to the line when you shoot 25% from 3 but 75% FTs.
If we had a decent post player they would occupy/seal the defense, clean up on easy dump offs and offensive rebound putbacks. But I’m not making an argument Derkack is a good offensive player.
Going in it was 35-34 Grant. I’d rather invest the time in the kid who might be here next year.
Could Derkack drive and kick once in a while.
Martinis been a huge disappointment but I think he’s been playing hurt.
Grant didn’t play h.s. ball last year so it’s not a surprise he didn’t play early.
His defense is pretty atrocious but he’s so much better of an athlete - it’s not even close. He’s a pretty decent rebounder, it seems.
I agree he should play more, I just would rather more threes go to Bailey, Harper, Acuff and he concentrate on defending and rebounding on both ends. If he develops his game closer to the rim and play off Sommerville, that would benefit them both, as well as the team.
Grant does not have to jack up every 3 when he is open but he does have to take them on a swing pass to him. On Saturday , after he took a 3 early in the shot clock , Brandon Knight was yelling at him to go to the basket. Next possession , he made a great drive to the basket , stop pivoted and just missed but it was a good shot. I thought Knight got his point across. But they buried him on the bench . Questionable move in that game. One or 2 more putback rebounds were more likely coming from Grant than Martini , who once again failed miserably on offense. The team needed more offense and Pike decided it needed more defense , which Martini did a decent job for a while until he didn’t , but the offense never came. A gamble that was lost by Pike
I don’t think that’s what he was saying. We already know the entire surrounding cast brought in to support Ace and Dylan has been a huge disappointment overall.
But we’re in the hole we’re in right now in large part because of poor defense, not offense. The bottom line is the team defense performed at a high enough level vs Michigan (who will be a top 25 team when the new rankings come out) to win games like this with an average offensive game from either Ace or a healthy Dylan (don’t even need both). Zach is a big part of why this was the case and that is the context of saying “played well”.
Good is “relative”. At this point, the season is all about hoping that against all odds we can sneak into the BIG tourney and make things interesting. With either a healthy Dylan or a slightly better game from Ace who had an off day, next time, maybe we win a game like this if we can deliver a defensive performance like yesterday (which we don’t get without Zach).
Assessing a player based on realistic expectations is not the same as a free pass. The D looked vastly improved from earlier in the year. Sure beats getting outrebounded 46-27 against Kennesaw.
Right now the 4/5 rotation is LS, Martini, Grant, and Dortch. I wouldn't really even consider Lathan a true 5, but these are the guys we got. Unfortunately it's glaring against a team w two 7 footers w skill.
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