Ash > Franklin

[MorrisAsh]

Put Ash in Happy Valley and he'd excell. Put Franklin in Piscataway and he'd struggle.

PSU has better facilities (sorry, it is true), game experience, fan support and financial support. It is just easier to do well there.

 

[BoogieKnight]

They had a great year and Franklin did an excellent job. He's proven to me that he's not a bust. That said, in PSU's heyday of the late 70's to mid 90's this type of season was the norm, not the exception. Year after year after year like Ohio Stste and Alabama of the present. So to me the challenge at PSU wasn't getting back to this level, they've shown that as recent as 2008 and arguably 2011. The challenge is to stay at this level year after year. That is what made Joe Pa great. Now does their fan base have reason to be optimistic this will be the norm? Of course. However, we felt the same way after 2006, that season after season we would always be THAT good. So again, let's see him string together 2-3 seasons like this before we anoint him, shall we?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Peanut head did well this year. No one can take that away from him.
You have give credit where credit is due.

 

[PSU_Nut]

I. Like I said, with a harder schedule and less talent Flood won 8 games year one.

Harder schedule? .What was so difficult about Rutgers Schedule that year? Was it the 3-9 Washington State? The 3-9 Tulane? The power house 5-7 Howard? How about the 8-5 Navy? Rutgers played 3 Top 25 teams all season while Penn State played 4 Top 10 teams this year along with 3 more who were in the last AP poll.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

hate to say it but in no way does Ash compare, hell, Ash has trouble making adjustments mid year much less mid game

stupid comparison anyway as PSU has so many intangibles going for it

 

[yesrutgers01]

It is actually a very stupid comparison if you are comparing head to head right now. Franklin has almost 10 years as a P5 HC and makes $5mil and Ash has his 1st year under his belt.
The question is who you would prefer here? And with that preference comes the $5 mil vs $2 mil salary.
I will give Franklin credit for a great year. I'll give him credit for the QB this year as well as I killed him previously with Hack. The real question will be if mcSorely will have as good of a 2nd year when everyone is ready for him and gameplanning for him. If he ends up with another great year, PSU will be tough again. But we have seen how a very good QB can make a coach look great. Ex- O'Leary at UCF

 

[Knight Shift]

It is actually a very stupid comparison if you are comparing head to head right now. Franklin has almost 10 years as a P5 HC and makes $5mil and Ash has his 1st year under his belt.
The question is who you would prefer here? And with that preference comes the $5 mil vs $2 mil salary.
I will give Franklin credit for a great year. I'll give him credit for the QB this year as well as I killed him previously with Hack. The real question will be if mcSorely will have as good of a 2nd year when everyone is ready for him and gameplanning for him. If he ends up with another great year, PSU will be tough again. But we have seen how a very good QB can make a coach look great. Ex- O'Leary at UCF

Godwin declared for the NFL draft. Gesicki comes back. Wonder if Hamilton declares. We can only hope the loss of Godwin has a Carroo-like effect on their passing game.

 

[RUaMoose]

Franklin's best win this year is Indiana or San Diego State. He hasn't beaten one ranked team at Vandy or TTFP.

He is the expensive douche version of Flood with good (for now) recruiting. Another year like this and Ash, Narduzzi and Durkin are going to put him on the unemployment line.

Maybe you should stick to your day job. You're not too good at this prediction business whether it's CFB or presidential elections

 

[lyndj]

Godwin declared for the NFL draft. Gesicki comes back. Wonder if Hamilton declares. We can only hope the loss of Godwin has a Carroo-like effect on their passing game.

I doubt Hamilton declares though initially I wouldn't have been surprised if he grad-transferred. Now I think he stays. Franklin has recruited extremely well the last few years at the skill positions so WR is an area we have a lot of talent, some were not able to get as many touches. Blacknall did well in the BIG championship game and will start next year for sure. Franklin is really excited about Irvin charles if he can fix a few things. There's Thompkins, Juwan Johnson who will get time next year. Godwin was great and the most consistent but unlike laviano/Caroo duo, McSorley throws to several other receivers.

 

[madchuck]

I understand there's a lot of hate for Franklin. And yes, he's not Urban Meyer but Penn State had a great year this year. What exactly has Ash done that makes you think he's a better coach than Franklin? I thought Ash was pretty bad at times last year. In fact, the team seemed to regress as the season went on. It's hard to give Ash credit for benching Laviono. Laviono was passing for like 13 yards a game. Even the games we won against lesser competition, we always started out flat. If it wasn't for Janarion Grant, we would've went 0-12. 100%

 

[Knight Shift]

I understand there's a lot of hate for Franklin. And yes, he's not Urban Meyer but Penn State had a great year this year. What exactly has Ash done that makes you think he's a better coach than Franklin? I thought Ash was pretty bad at times last year. In fact, the team seemed to regress as the season went on. It's hard to give Ash credit for benching Laviono. Laviono was passing for like 13 yards a game. Even the games we won against lesser competition, we always started out flat. If it wasn't for Janarion Grant, we would've went 0-12. 100%

You have to understand that this thread was started in 2015, right after Ash was hired, and some knucklehead decided to bump it for kicks.
Any comparison to Franklin in 2015 was just silly, since Ash had not coached a game, and comparisons today are still silly. Let's wait 2-3 more years before drawing any comparisons to any other coaches.

 

[bitnez]

It's early and Ash deserves time but our guy just oversaw perhaps the worst year of major college football in the last 25 years and the other guy won the B1G and almost won the Rose Bowl.

Let's just worry about ourselves.

 

[bitnez]

And, yes, recruiting counts. The best coaching Franklin ever did was flipping Barkley

 

[OldTiredLion]

For a coach who some claim to be not as good as Ash, he still is 3 - 0 against Rutgers. And he defeated RU twice with a squad still reeling from sanctions while Rutgers was at full strength. But hey. don't let a few facts get in the way of your hate and envy.

 

[RU1977]

I'm still glad they lost to USC....

 

[yesrutgers01]

For a coach who some claim to be not as good as Ash, he still is 3 - 0 against Rutgers. And he defeated RU twice with a squad still reeling from sanctions while Rutgers was at full strength. But hey. don't let a few facts get in the way of your hate and envy.

No one can claim Ash is better than Franklin but we can say that Ash may be a better fit for us. As for your statement- wawawa on the damn sanctions. Your team was probably at greater strength we were in any year but the first one and it took at least 5 different plays that had to go right for you and wrong for us for you to win.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I continue to think that Franklin will not be a long term answer for PSU, and will ultimately be fired. He is a recruiter much more than he isa coach. Now, that said, if he is able to put years like this under his belt, he may be able to out-talent the competition to a long term role. With this level of recruiting, he doesn't need to be a great coach. PSU is a very good fit for him.

 

[RUaMoose]

PSU is light years ahead of us. They have nine 4 star and one 5 star in their incoming class and a better coach. We'll be in their rear view mirror for years to come.

 

[kjb32812]

I continue to think that Franklin will not be a long term answer for PSU, and will ultimately be fired. He is a recruiter much more than he isa coach. Now, that said, if he is able to put years like this under his belt, he may be able to out-talent the competition to a long term role. With this level of recruiting, he doesn't need to be a great coach. PSU is a very good fit for him.

I agree with the recruiting portion but you are selling him and his staff way short on the player development part. Not that big a deal because you probably don't know the intricacies of the roster since you are not a PSU fan. By my best recollection...

• QB McSorley 3*
• RB Barkley R250 4*
• WR Godwin R250 4*
• WR Blacknall R250 4*
• WR Hamilton 3*
• TE Gesicki 4*
• RT Nelson 3*
• RG Bates R250 4* (RS FR)
• C Gaia 3*
• LG Wright 3*
• LT - Mahon R250 4*

What I have not accounted for are injuries along the OL during the season. Penn State lost three tackles (Nelson, Mahon, Palmer) and a rotating G (Dowrey) and was replacing them with true freshman or lower rated guys. Not making an excuse because the OL looked pretty good in the Rose Bowl but that unit was pieced together. Not certain but I think the only guy playing the same position he was at the beginning of the year in the Rose Bowl was C Gaia.

Here is where it gets interesting:

• DE - R250 4* Sickels
• DE - 2* Schwan
• DT - 3* Givens (RS FR LB convert)
• DT - 3* Cothran
• LB - 3* Cabinda
• LB - 3* Wartman-White
• LB - 3* Bell
• CB - R250 4* Reid
• CB - 3* Haley
• S - 3* Allen
• S - 3* Golden

Because of the nature of this defense (~T25 in CFB but no one All Big) I have to talk about the rotations. Along the DL they used a total of about 12 guys (those above included). Of all 12, only one was a 4* (Sickels) and a lot of them were RS FR.

In regards to LB, Wartman was out almost the entire season and Bell and Cabinda were out at varying times. We also lost two backup LBs for the season to injuries by the end of the Michigan game. It was so bad at one point that PSU started a 6'3, 205 pound true freshman at ILB for a game.

I know everyone looks at our offense but what Pry did with the defense this year was nothing short of miraculous.

Anyhow, that is certainly not the OSU or Bama roster. Although there is a lot of talent and some highly rated guys above, I don't think it is fair to say they simply out talented teams. In a lot of cases, I think they just out gritted them and it all started with McSorley. Kid is just a gosh darn winner and whatever "it" is, he has it.

As an FYI, next year is where you will see a lot of those *s that you thought played this year as the OL will be all 4* guys and WR will see the younger 4*s playing.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I agree with the recruiting portion but you are selling him and his staff way short on the player development part. Not that big a deal because you probably don't know the intricacies of the roster since you are not a PSU fan. By my best recollection...

• QB McSorley 3*
• RB Barkley R250 4*
• WR Godwin R250 4*
• WR Blacknall R250 4*
• WR Hamilton 3*
• TE Gesicki 4*
• RT Nelson 3*
• RG Bates R250 4* (RS FR)
• C Gaia 3*
• LG Wright 3*
• LT - Mahon R250 4*

What I have not accounted for are injuries along the OL during the season. Penn State lost three tackles (Nelson, Mahon, Palmer) and a rotating G (Dowrey) and was replacing them with true freshman or lower rated guys. Not making an excuse because the OL looked pretty good in the Rose Bowl but that unit was pieced together. Not certain but I think the only guy playing the same position he was at the beginning of the year in the Rose Bowl was C Gaia.

Here is where it gets interesting:

• DE - R250 4* Sickels
• DE - 2* Schwan
• DT - 3* Givens (RS FR LB convert)
• DT - 3* Cothran
• LB - 3* Cabinda
• LB - 3* Wartman-White
• LB - 3* Bell
• CB - R250 4* Reid
• CB - 3* Haley
• S - 3* Allen
• S - 3* Golden

Because of the nature of this defense (~T25 in CFB but no one All Big) I have to talk about the rotations. Along the DL they used a total of about 12 guys (those above included). Of all 12, only one was a 4* (Sickels) and a lot of them were RS FR.

In regards to LB, Wartman was out almost the entire season and Bell and Cabinda were out at varying times. We also lost two backup LBs for the season to injuries by the end of the Michigan game. It was so bad at one point that PSU started a 6'3, 205 pound true freshman at ILB for a game.

I know everyone looks at our offense but what Pry did with the defense this year was nothing short of miraculous.

Anyhow, that is certainly not the OSU or Bama roster. Although there is a lot of talent and some highly rated guys above, I don't think it is fair to say they simply out talented teams. In a lot of cases, I think they just out gritted them and it all started with McSorley. Kid is just a gosh darn winner and whatever "it" is, he has it.

As an FYI, next year is where you will see a lot of those *s that you thought played this year as the OL will be all 4* guys and WR will see the younger 4*s playing.

Just a wild guess but the only game he won this year with less talent then the team he beat was OSU. He "out talented" every other win. And lost to a team "Pitt" with less talent then what you just posted

 

[kjb32812]

Just a wild guess but the only game he won this year with less talent then the team he beat was OSU. He "out talented" every other win. And lost to a team "Pitt" with less talent then what you just posted

When you take into account the youth and injuries on D, I don't know if your post is accurate. I would also guess that MSU probably had a similar amount of talent as well if we are only looking at stars.

I said in the beginning of the year that I would judge Franklin based on his record in pick 'ems. I believe he was 4-1 based on my estimations at the beginning of the year - PITT, Maryland, Minnesota, Iowa, MSU. Hindsight is 20/20 and those odds wouldn't be the same if they played today but that is how I was judging Franklin. OSU was a bonus. In addition, despite being TD dogs to USC, I would consider the last two games of the year pick 'ems (Wisky was favored by 2.5). Franklin went 1-1. That means his total in pick 'ems this past season was 5-2. One terrible loss and one unexpected win. I'd take 5-2 in pick 'ems any day of the week.

 

[yesrutgers01]

When you take into account the youth and injuries on D, I don't know if your post is accurate. I would also guess that MSU probably had a similar amount of talent as well if we are only looking at stars.

I said in the beginning of the year that I would judge Franklin based on his record in pick 'ems. I believe he was 4-1 based on my estimations at the beginning of the year - PITT, Maryland, Minnesota, Iowa, MSU. Hindsight is 20/20 and those odds wouldn't be the same if they played today but that is how I was judging Franklin. OSU was a bonus. In addition, despite being TD dogs to USC, I would consider the last two games of the year pick 'ems (Wisky was favored by 2.5). Franklin went 1-1. That means his total in pick 'ems this past season was 5-2. One terrible loss and one unexpected win. I'd take 5-2 in pick 'ems any day of the week.

Franklin had a very good year. No doubt. My response was to someone saying that it was not out talenting and then put up a post that showed just how much talent you guys do have. Even if young and inexperienced. F - we are just as young and inexperienced but with 2 stars and walkon's playing...

 

[GOLDBANGER]

And, yes, recruiting counts. The best coaching Franklin ever did was flipping Barkley

^^^^^This is 100% correct^^^^^^

 

[kjb32812]

Franklin had a very good year. No doubt. My response was to someone saying that it was not out talenting and then put up a post that showed just how much talent you guys do have. Even if young and inexperienced. F - we are just as young and inexperienced but with 2 stars and walkon's playing...

Yeah, I wasn't comparing Franklin to Ash. Just felt he was getting the short end of the stick when it comes to actual coaching and, particularly, player development. I think it is hard to argue my point when PSU had (IIRC) a 7.5 win total O/U at the beginning of the season and some people said he was on the hot seat (which I didn't agree with).

 

[yesrutgers01]

Yeah, I wasn't comparing Franklin to Ash. Just felt he was getting the short end of the stick when it comes to actual coaching and, particularly, player development. I think it is hard to argue my point when PSU had (IIRC) a 7.5 win total O/U at the beginning of the season and some people said he was on the hot seat (which I didn't agree with).

If he had 7 or less wins, yeah, he butt may have been a bit warm...

 

[kjb32812]

If he had 7 or less wins, yeah, he butt may have been a bit warm...

I have it on record from a very reliable source that 5 was the number. Seven would have killed him in recruiting though so 2017 he would have had to make a major move to keep his job.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I have it on record from a very reliable source that 5 was the number. Seven would have killed him in recruiting though so 2017 he would have had to make a major move to keep his job.

Though, it would have been a fun off season watching your board if he was retained with 5 wins. Ain't gonna lie. lol

 

[MADHAT1]

Not a Penn St or Franklin fan, but Penn St won the B1G and that's that.
Losing to USC like they did doesn't make Franklin a bad HC or put Moorhead
future as a possible HCing candidate in jeopardy.

I'd say Franklin needed to prove himself this year > and did.
One can say Moorhead played a large part in Penn St's success this year, but in the end: it's the HC who is given credit for the success their team has, or must take responsibility for its failure.
Franklin is receiving the credit and Moorhead will find it easier to get a P-5 HCing position ( he's willing to accept) because of the way Penn St played in 2016.
How Penn St plays in 2017 will make Franklin's star shine brighter , or dim because
the Nits didn't play as well as expected.

Ash deserved a pass this season, but the way RU plays in 2017 will make people start thinking he might be a good one or start worrying about him.

 

[kjb32812]

Not a Penn St or Franklin fan, but Penn St won the B1G and that's that.
Losing to USC like they did doesn't make Franklin a bad HC or put Moorhead
future as a possible HCing candidate in jeopardy.

I'd say Franklin needed to prove himself this year > and did.
One can say Moorhead played a large part in Penn St's success this year, but in the end: it's the HC who is given credit for the success their team has, or must take responsibility for its failure.
Franklin is receiving the credit and Moorhead will find it easier to get a P-5 HCing position ( he's willing to accept) because of the way Penn St played in 2016.
How Penn St plays in 2017 will make Franklin's star shine brighter , or dim because
the Nits didn't play as well as expected.

Ash deserved a pass this season, but the way RU plays in 2017 will make people start thinking he might be a good one or start worrying about him.

Going to be interesting to see how PSU does next year when they actually have expectations. The national media has already put them in the NC hunt.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Going to be interesting to see how PSU does next year when they actually have expectations. The national media has already put them in the NC hunt.

Saw that Athlon had PSU #4 in its early 2017 rankings.

If PSU can win another 10+ games next season, which certainly appears doable, and capitalizes on the promise of what could be a MAJOR 2018 recruiting class (#1 in the nation currently), then the ball can really get rolling.

Even ignoring the fact that his staff is more than capable of developing players, Franklin won't need to be Bill Belichick every Saturday if/when our players are more or as talented as all of their opponents.

 

[kjb32812]

Saw that Athlon had PSU #4 in its early 2017 rankings.

If PSU can win another 10+ games next season, which certainly appears doable, and capitalizes on the promise of what could be a MAJOR 2018 recruiting class (#1 in the nation currently), then the ball can really get rolling.

Even ignoring the fact that his staff is more than capable of developing players, Franklin won't need to be Bill Belichick every Saturday if/when our players are more or as talented as all of their opponents.

A few things. First, Franklin needs to have someone attached to Moorhead. He won't be around after next year.

Second, I love the class but Parsons is all over the place and UGA is going to come after Fields. Long way to go.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

A few things. First, Franklin needs to have someone attached to Moorhead. He won't be around after next year.

Second, I love the class but Parsons is all over the place and UGA is going to come after Fields. Long way to go.

Agreed on both accounts.

But Franklin has shown he can make good hires - Limegrover and Banks were also impressive but get overshadowed (understandably) by the OC - and we know this staff won't be outworked on the recruiting trail.

I'll take my chances on the momentum building.

 

[KingHigh]

I came to like the PSU squad a little bit over the course of the season. I hate their wack fan base and dirt bag coach but that squad balled.

 

[RUchip]

For a coach who some claim to be not as good as Ash, he still is 3 - 0 against Rutgers. And he defeated RU twice with a squad still reeling from sanctions while Rutgers was at full strength. But hey. don't let a few facts get in the way of your hate and envy.

No envy for a pedophile school. Just hate

 

[bac2therac]

I think exactly the same and I'm not the only one. Many HS coaches feel the same way. He had the perfect storm of good breaks this year...similar to Floods first B1G year with better talent. Two blocked kicks against OSU, people simply forgetting about Michigan ass whooping, weak OOC schedule, and some big/lucky QB play. Let's talk again next year. And let's not forget he makes 5 million a year. For that money you should be finishing top two or three in your division every year.

he just won the division and beat OSU, what more do you want. Oh and did you just compare Flood beaten no one that year to Franklin, remind me when Flood beat Ohio State and Wisconsin, he beat 5-7 Michigan, bad Indiana and an ok Maryland whoopdee doo, sounds comparable

 

[jsol_05]

I prefer our guy on our team. Not even close.

JF is

I prefer our guy on our team. Not even close.

JF is 49-30 as HC, been to multiple bowl games, won the Big Ten and has been voted coach of the year by SN. I know some of u hate JF but to say that Ash is a better coach att is insane.