Bye bye 118

[Sideline20]

For college basketball purposes and for the "look on TV" student standing room is the way to go. See the link -

UNC has a couple of hundred students that will stand for an entire game to be that close. Hopefully, we will have students that will back the team like this.

https://goheels.com/news/2000/8/31/205464558.aspx

 

[S_Janowski]

Lol! So good of a deal that you could have come on down once in 30 years and sat right next to me. Why didn’t you?

Lol exactly.

You're clearly disgruntled at the way they handled this (for good reason) but if you weren't getting a good deal then you would have moved your seats on your own at some point the past 30 years. No one was forcing you to pay $500 per seat to sit there and reap some pretty good benefits.

And if I didn't live over an hour from the RAC I would 100% have season tix. Actually thinking about purchasing a pair for this season anyway.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Glad you’re not in charge because that is a horrible idea and if the AD that tried that would be a dead man walking. If you think displacing a significant amount of the most loyal fans who have been donating to the athletic department and sitting courtside for decades and giving those seats to students .

First of all it is more of a thought than idea....AND it would need to have a massive amount of communication and selling of a vision. Guys wouldn't be kicked out, they would need to pony up more money.

Let's also be a realist here...once we start winning things are going to change anyway with respect to prices. If we make the NCAA tournament the RAC will be full and there will be demand for all the side 100s and RU will/would be able to double the price at that point in time....to keep Pikiell and staff you probably are looking for $3-$4 million at least for the staff.

My seats are an incredible value right now without us winning.

 

[G- RUnit]

Lol! Never said anyone was forcing me. I am a diehard RU fan. I am used to pain. Doesn’t mean it’s a good deal. You just get used to it.

I could tell you one thing I am fairly certain you won’t be getting tickets in 118.

 

[S_Janowski]

Lol! Never said anyone was forcing me. I am a diehard RU fan. I am used to pain. Doesn’t mean it’s a good deal. You just get used to it.

I could tell you one thing I am fairly certain you won’t be getting tickets in 118.

Ok.

And I could tell you one thing...I'm fairly certain if I paid for something for over 30 years (other than for taxes, insurance and my mortgage) I would never have as many complaints about it as you.

Which tells me the seats and the price you paid all those years weren't all that bad.

 

[BigTenRutgers]

What good deal did the people in 118 have exactly? Shitty bleachers, an obstructed view, and full price admission. I am by no means a big donor but still contribute over 2k a year in donations. What exact good deal have I gotten again?

Agree, and while no disrespect is intended toward anyone, nobody should be telling someone else how to spend their money or that they got a good deal. Unless it's your money being spent, your opinion is, frankly, irrelevant.

 

[G- RUnit]

Ok.

And I could tell you one thing...I'm fairly certain if I paid for something for over 30 years (other than for taxes, insurance and my mortgage) I would never have as many complaints about it as you.

Which tells me the seats and the price you paid all those years weren't all that bad.

Not complaining at all dude. Never stopped me for thirty years. But not going to take pot shots about such a “good deal.”

Like the above post noted, don’t rip fellow loyal RU fans because you perceive that other fans got such a “good deal”. It’s an odd argument.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Lol exactly.

You're clearly disgruntled at the way they handled this (for good reason) but if you weren't getting a good deal then you would have moved your seats on your own at some point the past 30 years. No one was forcing you to pay $500 per seat to sit there and reap some pretty good benefits.

And if I didn't live over an hour from the RAC I would 100% have season tix. Actually thinking about purchasing a pair for this season anyway.

“Dude” the seats were historically priced at the value perceived relative to the other seats. They were viewed (appropriately) as a step up from the student bench seating across the way but not as valuable as the seats on the side because of the viewing issues and the lack of a back. So it was not a “deal” it was appropriately valued for what we were getting (with the pros and cons stated). And as I stated, we’ve have had those seats for three decades from when we were kids, so certainly that factors into it.

And “dude”, I maintained those seats when I was in Chicago (which is a bit more than just an hour away). So actually having and holding tix for three decades versus thinking about getting a ticket this year should allow us to be a little disappointed with a week’s notice that our section was being revamped and the price to stay in that area will increase by 400% and by the way, we can’t keep your group together in the 100 section and only have seats on the side of the 200 level where you can keep your group together. Oh, and by the way, “thank you for your contributions to the build fund, Audi club and wrestling season tix and annual contributions....we’ll put your name on the wall as we reem you....without a call or advance notification.”

It was totally mishandled. And I “think” most people can agree on that. As for supporting expansion and improvement - I let my wallet dontye talking.

CG

 

[S_Janowski]

Not complaining at all dude. Never stopped me for thirty years.

However like the above post noted, don’t rip fellow loyal RU fans because you perceive that other fans got such a “good deal”. It’s an odd argument.

You should re-read your post on page 2 of this thread. Lots of complaining (lousy bleachers, obstructed views, bad back etc).

The point is if it was that bad you should have moved. Otherwise you chose to stay there for 30 years so it couldn't have been that bad and there were some perks to sitting there as well.

Either way I think it's a dumb move to do what they're doing and RU dropped the ball on the communication as usual.

I'm not ripping other fans. It sucks but there are plenty of other more comfortable seats with unobstructed views you can move to.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You should re-read your post on page 2 of this thread. Lots of complaining (lousy bleachers, obstructed views, bad back etc).

The point is if it was that bad you should have moved. Otherwise you chose to stay there for 30 years so it couldn't have been that bad and there were some perks to sitting there as well.

Either way I think it's a dumb move to do what they're doing and RU dropped the ball on the communication as usual.

I'm not ripping other fans. It sucks but there are plenty of other more comfortable seats with unobstructed views you can move to.

There are great views, but other than on the floor I don't think there are any comfortable seats in the RAC

 

[G- RUnit]

You should re-read your post on page 2 of this thread. Lots of complaining (lousy bleachers, obstructed views, bad back etc).

The point is if it was that bad you should have moved. Otherwise you chose to stay there for 30 years so it couldn't have been that bad and there were some perks to sitting there as well.

Either way I think it's a dumb move to do what they're doing and RU dropped the ball on the communication as usual.

I'm not ripping other fans. It sucks but there are plenty of other more comfortable seats with unobstructed views you can move to.

You have totally miscomprehended the point of the posts. I can’t help you there. These fans including myself have paid their dues over the decades and their treatment is indefensible. It’s not complaining at all but merely pointing out the quality of these seats, pro and con. It’s not an entitlement argument and it’s certainly not this “good deal” nonsense.

On a secondary note even if I did not have seats in 118, I think destroying the footprint of the RAC is frankly nutty on many levels. Noise, fan experience, home court advantage, optics/visuals, attendance, potential to be a laughing stock, all deeply concern me.

Third and finally why was this done on such a secret level? And why such a rush? After 30 years fans do deserve an explanation.

 

[S_Janowski]

You have totally miscomprehended the point of the posts. I can’t help you there. These fans including myself have paid their dues over the decades and their treatment is indefensible. It’s not complaining at all but merely pointing out the quality of these seats, pro and con. It’s not an entitlement argument and it’s certainly not this “good deal” nonsense.

On a secondary note even if I did not have seats in 118, I think destroying the footprint of the RAC is frankly nutty on many levels. Noise, fan experience, home court advantage, optics/visuals, attendance, potential to be a laughing stock, all deeply concern me.

Third and finally why was this done on such a secret level? And why such a rush? After 30 years fans do deserve an explanation.

I agree with everything you say. Excuse my use of the term "good deal".

Didn't think it would get people so fired up.

 

[jersey07080]

I always told everyone when I died I would be buried under section 118 row b seat 1. Literally grew up in these seats. I know people in the section better than most ofu family. Still buying tickets in another section regardless. New memories will be made.

 

[linzalonic]

118 was special. Uncomfortable seating & partially obstructed views, knees resting in my back, but I enjoyed knowing that the refs could hear all of my constructive criticism.

I moved to 113, so I'll have a better overall view, but it won't be the same experience.

The admin definitely screwed up the timing and notice. Maybe do earlier in the offseason, and I don't know, maybe after a winning record?

But crucially, as pointed out above, the incremental gain is minimal. Just revamp the section to standard seating and charge the same as 100's. Connect it to the adjacent 100 sections with tunnels underneath.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Sorry can’t have it both ways here.

1. We want to be a big time program, hiring big time coaches, etc.
2. Allow loyal fans to stay close enough to smell sweat and here what players and coaches say without paying good $

This is prime real estate to a big time program that HAS to be monetized.

Sorry, I side with the athletic department here.

I think you are more correct than the section 118 grousers, who are understandably upset and thus perhaps not seeing the bigger picture for RU hoops.

 

[Local Shill]

118 was special. Uncomfortable seating & partially obstructed views, knees resting in my back, but I enjoyed knowing that the refs could hear all of my constructive criticism.

I moved to 113, so I'll have a better overall view, but it won't be the same experience.

The admin definitely screwed up the timing and notice. Maybe do earlier in the offseason, and I don't know, maybe after a winning record?

But crucially, as pointed out above, the incremental gain is minimal. Just revamp the section to standard seating and charge the same as 100's. Connect it to the adjacent 100 sections with tunnels underneath.

Tunnels?

 

[linzalonic]

Tunnels?

Doorway to the stairs. Just spitballing. They're revamping the section, but not maximizing the potential utility.

 

[Mr_Twister]

Bill Raftery would classify all these changes as “nickel and dime”. Compared to our Big Ten rivals, we are playing in a junior high facility. We will all do our happy dance when a big time donor steps forward, we name the facility after her or him, and we can get ahead of the curve, for once. We are always behind the curve. Friends who I take to games at the RAC who are not Rutgers fans always bend over backwards to say nice things about the RAC, but in their mind it is “small time”, glamourless.

 

[linzalonic]

I don't mind being displaced if it's for a legitimate improvement in gameday experience and program vitality.

But this change is ill-conceived.

Revenue impact: Barely improved, and that's assuming the section is sold out. Sadly, I'm not sure we can sell 48 of these $2000 tickets. Why not install regular seating - more seats at a more realistic price point. I think most denizens would've bucked up the extra.

Atmosphere impact: Greatly diminished. The VIP courtside crowd is mostly apathetic and subdued. Strange optics too, as many have stated.

Fan morale impact: Bad form to give minimal notice to long time fans who haven't seen a winning season since 2006 and ncaa's since early 90's. At least wait til we have ONE winning season.

 

[G- RUnit]

I think you are more correct than the section 118 grousers, who are understandably upset and thus perhaps not seeing the bigger picture for RU hoops.

Sorry can’t have it both ways here.

1. We want to be a big time program, hiring big time coaches, etc.
2. Allow loyal fans to stay close enough to smell sweat and here what players and coaches say without paying good $

This is prime real estate to a big time program that HAS to be monetized.

Sorry, I side with the athletic department here.

Sorry, but I have to call you out again. In what world is on the baseline behind the stanchions prime real estate?
Nobody pro or college except for the Atlanta Hawks has this section as prime real estate.
And if it is prime real estate, the solution is three rows of eight on both sides creating 48 seats?
That screams big time! Sarcasm!
Meanwhile you have shrunk the RAC again making it more and more like a high school gym.
So sorry do not believe the alleged revenue stream is worth it.
Plus displacing loyal contributing alums for decades.
That my friend is a big picture review.

 

[seels2662]

I came late to the party here

Just trying to figure out why they would do this....if this was north of $10K, then it is a money grab, disagree with it but hey at least its trying to make an honest buck. By making $2K for the season for 48 seats....unless my math is not correct on this, they aren't even making $100K, and thats minus the stupid food they give them...then how much will it take to build it....its probably multiple seasons to even break even....what is the point

 

[linzalonic]

I came late to the party here

Just trying to figure out why they would do this....if this was north of $10K, then it is a money grab, disagree with it but hey at least its trying to make an honest buck. By making $2K for the season for 48 seats....unless my math is not correct on this, they aren't even making $100K, and thats minus the stupid food they give them...then how much will it take to build it....its probably multiple seasons to even break even....what is the point

Agree, but it's not even 'making' 96k (IF sold out). Depends on what increase is from last season's revenue from the section. Wish I knew the previous roll so I could do the math.

Whatever the increase might be, doesn't seem worth all the trouble.

 

[G- RUnit]

Voices of reason!!!

 

[RC1978]

Is there a link to what is actually/officially happening here?

We are not moving our seats to there.

 

[G- RUnit]

That’s the ridiculousness of it all!
RU has not informed anybody publicly.
For a team that hasn’t made the tourney since 1992 and for some limited fans to defend them...
It’s so wrong and leaves a sour taste for absolutely no reason.
It’s so disheartening. Go RU!

 

[RUKnights86]

I feel for those who have spent many of seasons sitting in that section, as I have spent several games there (SHU this past year, Nebraska the previous) to name a couple memorable ones. The view was tough at times but the close experience was great. However I am for this and here is why:

1. It is beyond the annual revenue the seat makes in ticket sales, it is about the opportunity that might come from donations out of this as well which cannot be quantified.

2. Yes those tickets previously were sold but how often during games were they 100% filled? Conference maybe more so but non conference not a ton.

3. Yes I do worry about the atmosphere behind that basket but this is the way you go to help generate revenue and maybe incremental donors.

Btw as an Audi club member I did get an email today offering up an opportunity to buy these tickets without seeing a floor plan. I will hold judgment til we see what it looks like how it sells etc. I do think students from an atmosphere perspective would have been better but what Hobbs has done so far has been very positive so going to let this play out before I judge.

 

[Scarletwoman]

Not a fan of this at all. They’ve taken student section after student section away, however, it’s not like they show up to the games anyway, and now this? Bad business in my humble opinion.

Not!

 

[Scarletwoman]

How many "seats" were in 118 before? Does RU anticipate this new 48 seat expensive seating filling up?

I would buy if I was still in the US. Had wonderful four Audi seats on the 46 yard line

 

[G- RUnit]

I feel for those who have spent many of seasons sitting in that section, as I have spent several games there (SHU this past year, Nebraska the previous) to name a couple memorable ones. The view was tough at times but the close experience was great. However I am for this and here is why:

1. It is beyond the annual revenue the seat makes in ticket sales, it is about the opportunity that might come from donations out of this as well which cannot be quantified.

2. Yes those tickets previously were sold but how often during games were they 100% filled? Conference maybe more so but non conference not a ton.

3. Yes I do worry about the atmosphere behind that basket but this is the way you go to help generate revenue and maybe incremental donors.

Btw as an Audi club member I did get an email today offering up an opportunity to buy these tickets without seeing a floor plan. I will hold judgment til we see what it looks like how it sells etc. I do think students from an atmosphere perspective would have been better but what Hobbs has done so far has been very positive so going to let this play out before I judge.

Awful! Confirming worst fears and even more disturbing if that’s possible.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Was there also any need to do what occurred in Sec 118 several years ago pushing back the seats 6 rows so that Hobbs could plant his butt on a cushy seat next to the Rutgers bench? That seemed odd to me as he could have simply sat courtside. He disrupted the entire 118 Section once again for the purpose of 10 cushy seats. To me, it simply shows lack of respect / loyalty to those that have stuck it out for many awful years - especially with the lack of communication that occurred several years ago from the Athletic Department and as it appears the same lack of communication happened again this year to the holdovers in 118.

 

[G- RUnit]

Not!

How do you figure? Love to know your thoughts. Let me know please when they boot you after 30 years.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

I would buy if I was still in the US. Had wonderful four Audi seats on the 46 yard line

Not!

Fan of convenience telling loyal fans who were mistreated they are wrong and supporting a decision that makes it nice and convenient for you to come back and uproot some of the loyal fans from their seats so you can get a nice new fancy overpriced seat in a place they spent three decades loyally watching a mediocre product on the court.

And I held onto my football and basketball seats when I spent 4 years in Chicago. If you were a real fan, you would have done the same.

Not!

 

[DHajekRC84]

So one professional arena out of 320 Division I Basketball arenas, all the NBA arenas and no P5 schools?

Who thinks this is a good idea?

Not to mention this is a pro sport that also has a few thousand seats in the end court area...vs. A handicapped platform. We continue to take the college out of our venues thinking were a pro team. Chasing a few bucks while the rev shares are coming and increasing.

 

[G- RUnit]

Not!

I would buy if I was still in the US. Had wonderful four Audi seats on the 46 yard line

I would buy if I were in the States... for the last 30 years. Oh wait I was.

 

[gary-from-motown]

Very unfortunate if true that Pat and/or Sarah have not spoken to any of the season ticket holders from Sec. 118 up to this point on this matter.

Has anyone tried contacting him or her directly with any luck reaching them (either by phone or email)? Any response?

I wonder if they realize they appear to have dropped the ball here in terms of poor communication and treatment of loyal fans/donors, or are they tone deaf to this issue. Is there any reasonable way to salvage this situation at this point?

Agree, but it's not even 'making' 96k (IF sold out). Depends on what increase is from last season's revenue from the section. Wish I knew the previous roll so I could do the math.

Whatever the increase might be, doesn't seem worth all the trouble.

Ok --- If you really want to know the math here ... here ya go.
- Current section has 10 rows ... only 9 are sold because 1st row is blocked by the Hobbs cushy seats. ( they sell 10 when they inadvertently sell the first row which is what they did last year and then had to go do a buyback after the first month of the season ).
- Each row has 24 seats. Because of the basketball stanchions, they don't sell seats directly behind the basket but it fans out from the lower row to upper row. So it works out to approximately 21 seats per row that can be sold.
- So total seats that can be sold in that section is approximately 180
- Assuming half are purchased with parking that works out to approximately $99k.

Yes - the seats are comparatively inexpensive compared to other 100 level but lets not forget that fans are crammed into uncomfortable bleacher style seats with significant sight line obstruction. So they are fairly priced.

Under the new plan ... they make $96k but they have the added expense of construction, hospitality suite and premium parking. I fail to see how this brings in significant additional revenue.

For those that argue that displaced 118 fans will buy somewhere else thus raising revenue -- I don't believe that argument holds. Anyone willing to pay $2k for these seats is already likely a ticket holder moving from another section and so it probably works out to a wash from that perspective. This is not resulting in net new season ticket sales Could actually be a negative if many displaced fans decided not to renew which is what I am hearing from some.

As an alternative, here's what they could have done : Replace the bleacher seating with the same seating as other 100 level. Assumptions :
- 7 rows of seats
- Approximately 20 seats per row but reduce that with same assumption of not selling seats directly behind the basket
- Works out to approximately 120 seats that could be sold
- price tickets at $1175 which is same price as the corner sections of 100 level
- add in parking for half of the seat purchases
- works out to about $150k in revenue .... a 50% increase !!

And with this you get the added benefit of avoiding the ridiculous optics of barstool seating in the endcourt, you keep the section filled with a consistent and loyal fanbase and you avoid all of this acrimony.

I wonder if anyone in the ticket office is really thinking through all of the options ??
-

 

[G- RUnit]

Silly Gary, why do that when you could build a food court for 48 people plus Hobbs' personal Game of Thrones chair?

 

[Upstream]

A couple of thoughts on this:

* This is obviously another example of really poor communications on the part of Rutgers Athletics. There is no excuse to give only a few weeks notice before the season ticket deadline that they need to move their seats. Ideally, Rutgers should have reached out individually to each Sec 118 season ticket holder last season, to tell them that a change was being planned, and give them the opportunity to try seats in different parts of the RAC to see where they might want to move their seats. Failing that, Rutgers certainly needed to tell these season ticket holders more than a few weeks before the ticket renewal deadline, and Rutgers should reach out to them all individually to help them decide where they want to relocate, without any penalties for those who want to take time to consider their options (including the option to not renew).

* Without seeing any plans for this new section, or knowing long-term plans, I don't know if it is a good or bad idea. From what I have read in this thread, I would not be interested in moving my 100-level sideline seats to that section. I would guess that the target buyer for this new section is corporate/professional customers who would use the seats to give to clients and/or employees. My understanding is that the current floor seats are currently sold out, and there is additional demand, thus the move to add floor seats in front of Sec 118 last year, and likely the move to add this new seating area.

* I don't think revenue from these seats (48 x $2000 = $96,000 per season) is the driver. If the $96,000 is the driver, then Rutgers is playing a nickel and dime game when we need to be generating multi-millions. I think the driver for these seats is to provide the floor seating perk to corporate/professional customers who provide the real money elsewhere.

* As far as whether the old 118 seats were a good deal or not, I agree with the previous comments that they were a fair deal. If they were a bad deal, people who sat there would have moved their seats. If they were a great deal, the section would have been completely sold out with a waiting list.

* People who chose to sit in Section 118 got to see basketball games for the cost of their tickets. They are not entitled to those seats in perpetuity. But long-term season ticket holders certainly deserve to be treated with respect when informed that they need to move their seats. There is no excuse for the way Rutgers Athletics communicated this change to them.

 

[linzalonic]

Ok --- If you really want to know the math here ... here ya go.
- Current section has 10 rows ... only 9 are sold because 1st row is blocked by the Hobbs cushy seats. ( they sell 10 when they inadvertently sell the first row which is what they did last year and then had to go do a buyback after the first month of the season ).
- Each row has 24 seats. Because of the basketball stanchions, they don't sell seats directly behind the basket but it fans out from the lower row to upper row. So it works out to approximately 21 seats per row that can be sold.
- So total seats that can be sold in that section is approximately 180
- Assuming half are purchased with parking that works out to approximately $99k.

Yes - the seats are comparatively inexpensive compared to other 100 level but lets not forget that fans are crammed into uncomfortable bleacher style seats with significant sight line obstruction. So they are fairly priced.

Under the new plan ... they make $96k but they have the added expense of construction, hospitality suite and premium parking. I fail to see how this brings in significant additional revenue.

For those that argue that displaced 118 fans will buy somewhere else thus raising revenue -- I don't believe that argument holds. Anyone willing to pay $2k for these seats is already likely a ticket holder moving from another section and so it probably works out to a wash from that perspective. This is not resulting in net new season ticket sales Could actually be a negative if many displaced fans decided not to renew which is what I am hearing from some.

As an alternative, here's what they could have done : Replace the bleacher seating with the same seating as other 100 level. Assumptions :
- 7 rows of seats
- Approximately 20 seats per row but reduce that with same assumption of not selling seats directly behind the basket
- Works out to approximately 120 seats that could be sold
- price tickets at $1175 which is same price as the corner sections of 100 level
- add in parking for half of the seat purchases
- works out to about $150k in revenue .... a 50% increase !!

And with this you get the added benefit of avoiding the ridiculous optics of barstool seating in the endcourt, you keep the section filled with a consistent and loyal fanbase and you avoid all of this acrimony.

I wonder if anyone in the ticket office is really thinking through all of the options ??
-

Thanks for doing the math, which is in no-brainer territory in my opinion.

I'll be speaking with a department rep next week. Looking forward to hearing their side of the story.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

upstream nails it. 1 thing people miss is how an affluent non Rutgers basketball fan is accustomed to watching a game. Now I don't expect Rutgers to pull it off, but there is no where other than on the floor where someone can take a high end client to a game.

 

[G- RUnit]

Didn’t Rutgers have focus groups and studies that specifically said not to mess with the floor/ foot print? The very thing that makes the RAC special.

Wouldn’t converting the press boxes to luxury boxes for the affluent high end customer rather than visually obstructed seats on the baseline be wiser?

Hasn’t Rutgers already created front row seats for VIPs?

It’s a college arena. It’s not the pros. How many of us have complained that the RAC is losing its collegiate feel and turning into a minor league baseball game?

Although nobody gets seats in perpetuity(Easy to pontificate when not your seats) the RAC has been here since 1977. Some of these seats holders are now approaching 30 years. RU begs the same fans to remember them in their wills. Can’t have Coach calling you to buy season tickets and then have Athletic Department pull the tickets away from you. It’s a two way street.