Carino on Shaq Doorson
- Thread starter MadRU
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If you are 7'0 , 270 and only 19 years with a broken foot and cannot exercise........You're going to gain weight. Do you expect a nutritionist to live with him and watch him eat ?
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You're going to gain a lot of weight if your coaches don't care about your conditioning
@RUPete just curious, what type of monitoring could they do with a college student living in an apartment eating in the Dining Halls and then at his apartment at night and on weekends ? That's a Big Kid, I'm sure he has a big appetite. After the injury, he needed to personally dedicate himself to get back into shape and change his eating habits.
Well how are they watching what he eats now? If they cared they would've put him on a nutrition program while injured. They could weigh him weekly if they wanted to also. Pretty simple.
I am probably being unrealistic in thinking that they would take a football/Ash approach to nutrition. I hope hoops gets there in terms of focus and resources. But the bottom line is that you have to be involved and care about these guys' lives. You have to use any resources available. Maybe they weren't available to Eddie. Hopefully it changes under Hobbs. His early actions are encouraging.
Having a Nutritionist for the Football program is a great thing...pretty sure basketball does not get that type of support...maybe Hobbs can get the money
I'm pretty sure you don't need a nutritionist to tell you that someone that gained 40 pounds needs to control their portions. That just might be me though. We also had rich dalatri whose sole job is to watch the conditioning of 13 people. So we had someone there last year.
And if he gains weight by eating a bunch of Big Macs and Pizza on the weekend....then what ? Take away his scholarship ? He is doing it now because of his own personal dedication. Others can set standards...the individual has to do it with very hard work. There are a lot of Big Time programs with some out of shape and overweight guys languishing on the bench.....when the individual decides to put in the work that's when it changes.....lots of promising careers have been wasted because guys did not dedicate themselves to staying in shape.
Of course, the new fitness guy is head and shoulders above what they previously had.....Hobbs spent the money to bring in the best trainer possible.
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I could be wrong, but I think there may be shared access with other programs. But the bottom line is your trainer and ST need to be on top of it. It's not like Shaq was separated from the team. He was at all the games and engaged with the team.
I find that to be illogical. It wasn't lack of resources to be able to tell someone to cut back on the fat cats and weigh him once a week. Especially if he isn't practicing. How much more would it cost to simply do that? This case was not lack of resources, it was pure lack of giving a damn.
There have been a lot of promising college careers that have been wasted because guys did not dedicate themselves to staying in shape. Most of this is on the individual. It's great that Shaq is putting in the hard work and keeping his eating in check.
Well then he had absolutely no respect for the staff or they didn't even try. You even wonder how Pikiell got Shaq motivated to do it? You think Shaq just woke up and decided to care all of a sudden?
It's pretty simple, Shaq understands, Get in shape or sit on the bench. Shaq wants to play so he put in the hard work to get into shape and eat better to control his weight.
Keep in mind, there are "limited" hours per week that Pikiell and staff can spend with the players. A lot of the hard work is done outside of the coaches or trainers eyes. Guys going to the gym on their own time and getting into shape. That's the difference between personal dedication to work hard and guys who have had wasted careers because they NEVER got in great shape and eat their way off the team.
Exactly my point, the past staff was supposed to make him understand the same way. The difference being that being out the whole season made their argument weak, but knowing this the staff is supposed to make him understand that the playing time won't be there next season for him if he doesn't show a commitment to staying at a certain weight. While he's hurt he doesn't need hours of hands on treatment, he needs to be checked in on periodically and monitored like any other player. If he doesn't show commitment to this then tell him that he won't be on the team.
Yes, it's great that Shaq dedicated himself to getting in shape, staying in shape and eating right. The same way Diallo did with the same broken foot....:) It's Interesting that Diallo did not gain 40 pounds during his down time or that Freeman did not gain 40 pounds........lol. I guess they had those Weekly Weigh-ins which are proven to be the only way to keep guys in shape.
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I just read the article and it was very positive. What the hell is everyone arguing about?
it's a great article about how much hard work Shaq put in to get in shape.
Some guys don't understand that in most cases it is the personal dedication by guys like Shaq to get in shape and eat right is what separates them from guys that waste their college careers being overweight and out of shape.
The example on the football team is Tyriq Cole....he decided to totally change his eating habits and lost 80+ pounds. I applaud the efforts of both of them.
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Side note: I wonder if Doorson was named after THE Shaq. Shaq would've been in his 2nd season in the NBA (rookie year was '92-'93 then year 2 was '93-'94, Doorson was born in Feb. of '94 in the Netherlands. The NBA was already quite popular in Europe, esp. after the '92 Dream Team made all that noise in Barcelona. And O'Neal was already a huge name in the NBA by '94 and I'm sure also had an international following.
No way Doorson's parents could have predicted he'd grow to close to 7 feet tall like his namesake but maybe his parents are tall people themselves and are/were both big Shaq O'Neal fans and decided to name their son after him. Just doesn't seem like a popular name but who knows, maybe it is in other countries. Anyway, would be curious to know.
No way Doorson's parents could have predicted he'd grow to close to 7 feet tall like his namesake but maybe his parents are tall people themselves and are/were both big Shaq O'Neal fans and decided to name their son after him. Just doesn't seem like a popular name but who knows, maybe it is in other countries. Anyway, would be curious to know.
You come across as clueless in this thread (not trying to flame)
What's next? You're going to tell us that the previous staff couldn't help the kids out with rebounding...and that maybe Hobbs got some extra resources to help Pike and Co with rebounding. Lol
These guys are coaches. Their job is to watch for stuff like this and to work players over. To me, its clear the new S&C coach is a major reason Shaq has lost the weight
I genuinely wondered if you were being sarcastic the first few posts...then I realized you were serious. Do you not know that S&C is part of the staffs responsibility? This includes eating and teaching the kids / motivating them to take care of themselves
I disagree that he comes off as clueless. I think what we need to do is stop killing Eddie for EVERY issue the bball team had/has. We are doing it now with Flood on the football board. All I heard last year was "if we had a good coach there is no way we would be getting killed." Then this off season all that was talked about was how the changes Ash is making will make a huge difference. The NUTRITION bar, the S&C coach etc will pay off huge. Guess what? We look worse than we did last year.
TALENT WINS PERIOD. The ONLY thing I will kill Eddie and/or Flood for is LOUSY recruiting. Short of that the rest of this stuff is just fluff. I am not saying it is not important. Perfect nutrition, S&C coaching, weight room being cared for. All the little things MIGHT get us an extra win. Recruiting high threee low four star players, top 150 guys year in and year out is all that matters.
I don't think everything that flood did was clueless.
I do think everything eddie did was clueless. I don't know that I've ever seen a college team look as unprepared, as unmotivated and as lost from day one as eddies teams.
I got the whole personal accountability thing. I do. But I can't believe we are sitting here debating how a kid puts on 40 pounds, can barely dunk, and that's not somehow on the staff.
Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree.
I generally agree that we should move on from Flood and Eddie and focus on the now and going forward. But I think some posters compulsion to very quickly defend these guys - particularly in the case of Eddie - rubs some folks the wrong way.
In this particular case, there's nothing wrong with giving kudos to Shaq for dedicating himself to his training, while simultaneously praising the current staff for whatever motivational efforts were involved. It's natural as we move forward that results and efforts of the current staff are going to be contrasted with the previous.
In this particular case, there's nothing wrong with giving kudos to Shaq for dedicating himself to his training, while simultaneously praising the current staff for whatever motivational efforts were involved. It's natural as we move forward that results and efforts of the current staff are going to be contrasted with the previous.
The first job of a college coach is to motivate.
Eddie took a pro approach. He expected the kids to be motivated and to work on fitness and fundamentals on their own. Players do not make it to the pros unless they are self motivated. College is a different story. Eddie was mistaken about the need to be fully involved in the players lives.
SP has clearly shown these kids, quickly, what is expected of them. To their credit, so far they seem to have responded really well. We have good kids on this team. They seem eager to put in the effort to get better, now that they have proper direction, and the expectations have been made clear to them.
Eddie took a pro approach. He expected the kids to be motivated and to work on fitness and fundamentals on their own. Players do not make it to the pros unless they are self motivated. College is a different story. Eddie was mistaken about the need to be fully involved in the players lives.
SP has clearly shown these kids, quickly, what is expected of them. To their credit, so far they seem to have responded really well. We have good kids on this team. They seem eager to put in the effort to get better, now that they have proper direction, and the expectations have been made clear to them.
This may be true. It may not be. The reality is none of us were at practice. None of us were in the locker room. What do t what he preached to the team. People are just saying what they read on this board from other people who weren't at practice. The team was decimated last by injuries. Worse than I can ever remember. And they were already lacking talent. I don't think Eddie was the right guy and we needed to move on. But it is almost entirely based on his recruiting. I will only believe Steve is the guy when I see him landing top players consistently. Until then as I said above the rest is just filler.
@SirScarlet To me, it's clear that Shaq is the reason he lost the weight. Obviously, others offer the blueprint, guidance and motivation, but, it was SHAQ's own personal commitment and dedication to change his eating habits and work hard. We can disagree.
I don't engage in the blame game. If something goes wrong.....blame someone else. If you attempt to blame someone else for Shaq gaining a lot of weight then how is it that others that were also injured and on the shelf did not gain a lot of weight? Freeman was out for a long time and was even separated from the team. He did blow up and gain a ton of weight. There's a disconnect in how you want to assign blame.
Like I said, college basketball has a lot of guys in good programs with great S&C coaches who wasted their careers by not maintaining proper weight and eating themselves off a team on a diet of Big Macs and Pizza. Luckily, Shaq will not be one of them......
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What?
You limit calories. A D1 team must have a D1 staff and observe the right way. This kid should not have gained the weight he did. Players get scholarships, its a full time job.
How Shaq got to where Pikiell said he was is just bad. Last years staff apparently did not hold themselves to the standards they could of. To say that it could not have been prevented is false.
Exactly. Its just weird. I get he had a bad injury. Dunking with a bad foot is going to be hard. Still, he was poorly managed. We have to resemble a D1 team, and I think we do now.
Limit calories ? If Shaq wants to eat Big Macs and pizza on the weekend he is going to do it. He made the decision and made the personal commitment to change.
Whatever happened to Personal Responsibility ?
Did someone limit Freeman's calories ? Explain why he did not gain a lot weight ?
How did so many guys go negative on this piece? Oh, Diallo didn't pack on the pounds when he couldn't play. So many positives. Shaq cut down on his intake and lost 40 pounds, worked hard on the court and is now back in our picture. As Choppin' said, kudos to Shaq. Also, Shaq said the staff was very, very intense. Etc. All good stuff we RU fans lost in the thickets for a decade want to hear, and Carino writes a nice, upbeat piece which draws mostly groaning about how Shaq was allowed to get out of shape. Let's turn the page on Eddie, Rice and FHJ, be happy with what we have and not indulge in recriminations. We need to forget all the backbiting last Feb and March between those that argued for EJ to be given another year or two and those that wanted a new coach, and not say, see, the old staff let Doorson get heavy.
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as I said to Rick, we'll have to agree to disagree
this isn't about blame, but accountability. there is a difference
we had an S&C coach before...what was he doing with Shaq? obviously not enough.
but honestly, I don't care at this behind. the disaster of the EJ era is over...let's move forward. but i do think this Shaq situation is just another indication that EJ was just a horrendous fit for us.
Anyone know Shaq's weight right now vs. 2 years ago. My recollection of Shaq was someone who gave good energy for a short period. Most likely it was all conditioning and not weight. I don't remember him being overweight in '14-'15
This is a message board and it's for discussion. No one is discounting the positive news. In fact the discussion of the weight gain is pertinent because it points to an improvement this staff has made where the previous staff may have been lacking. All fair discussion in my opinion.
Antony Bennet at UNLV, Oliver Miller at Arkansas, Khalid El-Amin at UConn, Zach Randolph at Michigan State, Sean May at UNC, Greg Ostertag at Kansas, Glen Davis at LSU, Barkley at Auburn, Tractor Traylor at Michigan, Michael Sweetney at Georgetown, ....thats off the top of my head a list of guys who played above their "ideal" playing weight. Many played at historic programs with HOF coaches.
Were the HC's not on top of it or were the players not dedicated enough?
The reports on Doorson are certainly encouraging.
Were the HC's not on top of it or were the players not dedicated enough?
The reports on Doorson are certainly encouraging.
A player is a division 1 athlete, and is getting a scholarship,correct?
It is his personal responsibility, but it is also the coaches and strength coaches responsibilities to keep check, and make sure no one is going off the deep end. Shaq went off, and no one was there.
You are right, there is a good amount of personal responsibility. One player is getting a 40000 scholarship, and the coach is getting a 1.2 million salary.
It seems like Shaqs situation got pretty dire. That is his responsibility, and the responsibility of the coaches.
You are right. I guess it is just the discussion of what our past staff was doing. At one point, this kid seemed to really fall off the boat. The reports are one day negative, one day positive. My guess is the board is responding to what we are hearing. One day its Shaq could not get off the ground and couldn't run a lap up the floor without being gassed, the next day its that he is doing really well, lost all this weight.
Kudos to Shaq. I just wish after seeing the recent reports that he never got to that point. People get paid a lot of money in this job, you would hope they would perform to the level of their salaries.
