No, but offense ineffectiveness and multiple 3 and outs for long periods does significantly impact the defense. Football fact and you know it.
Convince me that I'm wrong: Our defense has been bad
- Thread starter Morrischiano
- Start date
Time of possession was even. No team scores on every single drive. We only had the ball 4 times in the first half and had 2 long sustained drive TDs. And then we chose not to pass in the second half to avoid turnover risk. The offense was fine Saturday. The D was the problem.
The Wash kicker missed two mid-range field goals and Wash went for a 4th down when another FG was right there for them. That's 9 points our defense had nothing to do with. These mistakes by the other teams aren't something that will will last nor be something I'd build into my game plan.
Our kicker has missed 3 of his last 4 attempts too and with our offense I wouldn't count on holding the other guys to 23-27 enough unless you plan for every game to be a last series nail biter (perhaps exactly what GS wants).
This point has been made, but the D was a problem to the tune of 18 points. If you want to say missed FG's played into that, well that's true but the D only allowed 2 TD's.
Also should be noted the last missed FG was from 55 yards, after Wash started at their own 39, and gained all of 23 yards on 6 plays. This after our offense, which started the preceding drive with 1:40 to go, gained 3 yards on 3 plays and punted.
If there is a drive to be critical of, it's the TD and 2 pnt conversion that was 12 plays long but only used 3 minutes of game time, and gave Wash a chance.
I’m not sure what your trying to say here but it seems you are making it like their kicker missed two bunny 20 yarders in perfect conditions. He actually did make the one closest to that situation - 22 yarder before the rain kicked in. He missed a pair of 37 and 42 yarders in his first game in a hostile environment in wet conditions. I’m not sure how many kickers are automatic 2-2 in that situation the way you are making it out.
Also - saying the decision to go for it on 4th and goal on a short 2 was inexplicable is Monday night quarter backing trailing by 11. Washington has an excellent defense. If you miss there you have the opponent pinned deep with a chance for either pick on a bad pass decision or a safety if your line dominates the offense.
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The last 2 drive on offense was a coaching decision for better or worse - it was not a reflection of our capability. Basically was the equivalent of taking a knee and even at that we actually came close the first drive - got 9 out of the 10 yards needed even with them stacking like 10 in the box. There was no way we were throwing there with the wet conditions and the cruciality of making sure the clock kept ticking / forcing Washington to use their time outs.
In Greg’s defense - pretty much anyone other than Shelby maybe would agree that this decision was the right play. It had nothing to do with Athan’s abilities. In a wet day where you NEED the clock to run you don’t throw.
Come on. 37 and 42 are not some major challenges for P4 kickers. Didn't say they were automatic but the likehood he would make both is better than miss both. And I didn't say anything about the call to go for it. I said that was another 3 points they could have had if they wanted them.
My guess is the most likely outcome in that situation is a split. Make one and miss the other which would’ve put them at 2-1 on the day. 3-0 in that situation would be a lot to ask. I don’t think more than 50% of P4 teams nail all 3 in that situation.
You can’t look at it that way with the 3 points either. We chose to pass up 4th and less than 1 from the Wash 49 and multiple other plays on 4th and inches to 1 yard from our own 30ish where if we were trailing we certainly would’ve gone for it. Decisions in games are made situationally on both sides.
It's not the coaches decision to go three and out though. The goal in those situations is to run the ball for first downs.
And correct call or not, it does put the defense in tough spots.
here's the stats. making a 40 yarder is 90%.
This was a response to our scoring defense. Not about coaching decisions. You're missing the point (no pun intended). All I was saying is you can't give a defense credit for a coach choosing not to take the bunny points or a guy missing 2 90% chance field goals. I give them credit for tipping the pass and saving 7. In your math they should have had 2 of 3 worth 6 points more. All I am saying . The final number of points scored doesn't tell the true story with this defense per Al's post. (ps..I realize that is inflated NFL stat btw).
OK - so their guy missed two fairly simple kicks- and we missed two very simple catches.
Not sure what the point is. Every game has simple things go wrong for both teams.
Not sure what the point is. Every game has simple things go wrong for both teams.
Right, not passing in the second half getting shut down running the ball led to the D getting worn out. It’s not a difficult concept.
Two cities might have the same annual rainfall but the city that gets it all in two days will have flooding.
You get the idea.
Sorry dude but your grasping at straws. The offense scored when it needed to putting the team in a comfortable 21-10 situation with a 5 and a half minute offense drive ending in a TD with under 11 min to play.
Grady Gross isn't a rookie. He was 5-5 in the CFP last year and 2-2 in the Pac-12 championship vs. Oregon. He made a 4th quarter 43-yard FG in a tie game against USC in the Coliseum last year and e came into the Rutgers game kicking 86% on kicks under 50 yards. He's been in hostile environments and pressure situations before, so his performance was uncharacteristic.
He missed a 37 and 42 against us, which are pretty standard distances, before missing the 55 (which should have been a Hail Mary, imo - his career long is 47 yards, and he was 0-2 on 50+ attempts coming into the game). Rough night.
With 36 seconds left in the first half, Washington held the yardage advantage 192 to 147.
The score at that point was 7-3 Rutgers, and Washington had just blocked a FG. They would have had possession on their own 22 with 36 seconds left, and likely would have gone into halftime down 4. They had missed a 42 yard FG earlier in the half, and had a dumb penalty kill their first drive that had a good chance of resulting in at least a FG attempt up until that point.
Then the penalty was assessed, because some dumb dumb ran onto the field from their sideline, which gave us another shot, resulting in 7 more RU points on 15 more yards.
The start of the second half, we were stonewalled (3 plays, -11 yards) and they drove 51 yards on 5 plays to our 2.... and we stuffed them on 4th to take over on downs.
At that point, the yardage differential was 249 to 151.... but they were still down 11 points.
On the next drive, we got conservative and punted from their 49... which resulted in a 5-play, 94 yard TD drive and a score of 14-10.
IMO, Washington played well enough to win the game, but were largely let down by special teams and their sideline. I'm glad we don't have to play them again - we'd be hard pressed to come out of a rematch with the W.
The score at that point was 7-3 Rutgers, and Washington had just blocked a FG. They would have had possession on their own 22 with 36 seconds left, and likely would have gone into halftime down 4. They had missed a 42 yard FG earlier in the half, and had a dumb penalty kill their first drive that had a good chance of resulting in at least a FG attempt up until that point.
Then the penalty was assessed, because some dumb dumb ran onto the field from their sideline, which gave us another shot, resulting in 7 more RU points on 15 more yards.
The start of the second half, we were stonewalled (3 plays, -11 yards) and they drove 51 yards on 5 plays to our 2.... and we stuffed them on 4th to take over on downs.
At that point, the yardage differential was 249 to 151.... but they were still down 11 points.
On the next drive, we got conservative and punted from their 49... which resulted in a 5-play, 94 yard TD drive and a score of 14-10.
IMO, Washington played well enough to win the game, but were largely let down by special teams and their sideline. I'm glad we don't have to play them again - we'd be hard pressed to come out of a rematch with the W.
NFL inflated? it's not even close to what the average college kicker can make. You're taking basically the Top 32 kickers in over a 10 yr. or so period and comparing them to college kids? I like your posts but the graph is a real stretch.
Maybe we would tackle better and not drop some easy catches in a rematch? Who knows?
I’m sure a rematch would be hard fought and could go either way.
We were hard pressed to come out with a win in this one - a rematch would be just as difficult. I think Washington had more bad breaks than normal and we had fewer - in another matchup, it could be better or worse for them. I'm glad we don't have to find out.
The defense might not have had anything to do with it, but our fanbase sure did. Hard to make kicks in a hostile environment. Nebraska’s kicking game has also struggle and that is where we should have an advantage.
Not good so far but RU is better than that. The law of averages says they'll finish top 30 in most defensive categories and the "average" goes up this Saturday.We are not getting a consistent pass rush from our D Line
Our LBs often are out of position
Our DB continue to miss tackles in the open field
Look at the data:
In the last 3 games RU is #105 in D1 in yards allowed per play (6.3)
In the last 3 games RU is #133 (out of 134 teams) in yards given up by rush (6.7)
In the last 3 games RU is #100 in D1 in allowing rushing first downs per game (10.2)
In the last 3 games RU is #72 in D1 in turnovers per game (1.3)
In the last 3 games RU is #109 in D1 in sacks per game (1.0)
In the last 3 games RU is #117 in D1 in sacks % (2.9%)
Granted we are 4-0 but that is largely due to our offense and mistakes by VT and Washington. It's disappointing given how many returning starters our D has.
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If what you're saying is UW beat themselves and this win was at best very fortunate and some would say lucky, Shelby agrees. But that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes and all that matters is the W.
So- here is a telling stat - we have held VaTech and Washington to their lowest points scored this season...
Just saying
And yes- we need to clean things up but even on that last drive- Washington got the ball on their own 40 with needing a FG- Our defense stepped up when it needed to
Just saying
And yes- we need to clean things up but even on that last drive- Washington got the ball on their own 40 with needing a FG- Our defense stepped up when it needed to
At 21-10 one could say both O and D had performed very well.
From there on out, including the D giving up a TD plus a 2 pt conversion, and immediately after the offense going 3 and out with under 2 minutes to go, neither unit executed as well as one would hope.
But whatever, we won, this is all just nit picking.
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Except the actual numbers don’t tell that story at all. The first drive of half 2 is completely irrelevant to your argument since the D hadn’t played since before halftime at that point, yes?
So then after Washington’s drive of 2 minutes and 37 seconds we drove for 3 minutes and 6 seconds - longer than them. Then we both went 3 and out before our offense had a 5.5 minute long TD drive to go up 21-10. Nowhere in there is anything to suggest that our offense didn’t stay on the field long enough to give them a rest.
Then at the end of the game - after our 5 and a half minute long TD drive, Washington drove and missed a FG killing only 3 min and 30 seconds. Our 3 and out on the next possession took almost as long 2 min and 45 seconds so in summary - over the 2 possessions before Washington’s 8 pt TD RU drives ate 8 min and 15 seconds of time. Meanwhile - our D had only been on the field a combined 5 and a half minutes on their prior 2 possessions. So the exact opposite of what your suggesting was actually the case when they scored.
No - the D did not perform “very well” overall. They deserve credit for making timely plays that prevented Washington from scoring. But that doesn’t change the fact that Washington drove deep into RU territory on all but 2 drives. Thats not a good day for the D despite the missed FGs and inability to convert a few 4th downs.
In contrast, the offense did play well overall. You cannot put those last 2 three and outs on the offense and talk about failed execution. Not on a wet, slippery day where we already had two point blank pass drops and the number one goal was to keep the clock running and protect the ball. They did that by rushing straight up the middle. Greg knew Washington knew that was our plan but he didn’t care because it was too risky to try anything else there with a lead.
I said up to that point.
What words would you use to describe allowing 10 pts allowed through 3-1/2 qtrs?
Exactly what I said in the post before. Credit the D for their timely plays to keep Washington out of the end zone, but they did not play well overall. We recorded an astounding 14 missed tackles in the game allowing Washington to move the ball with ease throughout the game - not just at the end.
yeah I know. I didn't see the NFL thing until after I posted and why I called it out. However I wouldn't think a P4 College kicker (Top 50) is THAT inflated.. what do YOU think the chances are for one of them to make a 37 and 42?
So here's another link. right now there are 68 college kickers who have made 100% of every attempt from 40-49 yards. The number at 100% for 30-39 didn't go long enough to show anyone that missed one yet. The Washington kicker (who was claimed to be a true frosh) is actually a soph. who prior to Rutgers game was 7 of 8 and last year was 18 of 22 on field goals. Couldn't see if he missed any extra points but he did show 64 made.
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Advantage? Patel who has missed 3 of his last 4 will be kicking at THEIR hostile environment.
Patel kicked the game winner at VT, which is a similarly hostile environment
How is that possible? He’s 2 of 4 on the season isn’t he? One miss was a 53 yarder.
Up through that point, Washington missed two FGs that their kicker had previously made at >86%. They also had a dumb 15-yard late hit penalty on a 1st down play from our 38 that otherwise would have likely ended in at least another FG try. One huge play we did have was stopping them at 4th and goal from our 2 yard line... which might have otherwise been a 19-yard FG try, if not for the dumb penalty that gave us an extra 7 points at the end of the 1st half.
Their drives ended at:
- Rutgers 37 (downs)
- Rutgers 4 (FG)
- Rutgers 25 (missed FG)
- Washington 32 (punt)
- Washington 28 (only 1 play, end of half)
- Rutgers 2 (downs)
- Rutgers endzone (TD)
- Washington 32 (punt)
- Rutgers 20 (missed FG)
- Rutgers endzone (TD)
- Rutgers 38 (missed FG)
That's 6 of 10 complete drives that got at least to the Rutgers 25, and two more that got inside our 40. We were fortunate that resulted in just 18 points. We can't expect to be aided by penalties and missed FGs each week.
I’m not sure I’d classify their last drive as “complete” either as they had no time outs and couldn’t rush or pass into open space without time expiring on them.
Another reason it’s unfair to hold accountability on the offense for the 3 and outs. It was a conscious decision to eat clock at all costs.
But alas - with all that went wrong in this game, they needed Boston to make an incredible play on a ball he tipped to himself on 4th and 2 for the ending to even go down to the wire. Somewhat remarkable but that’s the reality.
So - the other way to look at it is that they only got inside our 20 4 times. And the drive for the first FG(that they did make) lol was aided by a questionable late hit on the passer. And I do not think that should have been called- 1 step, Thompson was pulling himself back with hands up and it was only chest to shoulder pad.
The 4th down at the 2- defense did it's job.
The defense does have to get better but they have also done enough to "not lose"
Even that late hit penalty came on a 1st down on our own 22 - the result would likely have been the same (made FG) whether it was called or not.
I'm not saying the defense was (or is) bad - but pointing to the scoreboard in this particular game isn't reflective of their level of play in this particular game. Washington moved the ball more effectively against Rutgers than Rutgers did on Washington - but we benefited more from discipline breakdowns and special teams execution failures on their side.
The defense gave Washington a lot of scoring opportunities and forced only 2 punts. That they did not capitalize on those scoring opportunities is as much a testament to their failures than our successes. If we only force 2 punts against future B1G opponents, I'd expect them to score more than 18 points.
Hardly much of a sample size. He’s attempted 4 FGs and only missed one FG of under 53 yards out.
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