ADVERTISEMENT

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Did you watch the video? From your response it does not seem like it. I have read the explanations the "experts" have given and they are laughable. Watch the video, preferably with an open mind. The same US scientist (Baric) who collabs with Wuhan Lab is also the author of No See'm technology and has published Coronavirus GOF research through chimeric virus creation. In fact his work 2014 is what caused GOF research to be stopped here in the US. Again, watch the video.

FYI, I came to the same conclusion as CM weeks before he did. I posted a thread on the CE board a month ago laying several of the pieces out. Wuhan Lab is the most elegant and also most likely explanation. The whole Wuhan Lab blackout from Oct 7-24 seems to fit this puzzle nicely.
I watched it, and while I've never tried to deny this came from a lab(there is a common sense trail of evidence which suggest it did), and I can't really dispute any of his points, my problem with the video is, I don't know enough either way to dispute or agree with much of it.

For instance the point of the backbone of the virus, and the chimera theory he uses as a reply, I have no idea. I also wonder about the natural possibility he provides. It sounds awful complicated and unlikely to happen, but is it the best possible theory for a natural occurrence of this virus? No clue.
 
So Russian ventilators are apparently causing fires and killing people in hospitals there?
 
That sounds bad.
Heard it on TV, did a google search but nothing up yet.

So don't quote me on it.

I do wonder how they figure how many were missed? Was there a secondary test? And if so who is to say they didn't just pick up the virus later? Maybe they retest the initial sample?
 
I watched it, and while I've never tried to deny this came from a lab(there is a common sense trail of evidence which suggest it did), and I can't really dispute any of his points, my problem with the video is, I don't know enough either way to dispute or agree with much of it.

For instance the point of the backbone of the virus, and the chimera theory he uses as a reply, I have no idea. I also wonder about the natural possibility he provides. It sounds awful complicated and unlikely to happen, but is it the best possible theory for a natural occurrence of this virus? No clue.
I agree that there is no real evidence either way. My takeaway is not that it is definitely engineered, just that those claiming it is natural are full of it. The reasons they give are bogus once you understand we have been creating chimeric viruses and using No See'm for almost 20 years. I have seen a few "experts" say they see no evidence left behind showing engineering. Well if they used No See'm well duh. In addition, there are links to the military regarding the lab in Wuhan so who knows all that is going on in that facility.
 
Odd anecdote I heard from a nurse at a LTC.

But the really old folk, those in their 90's were pulling through, while those in the 60-75 year old range not doing so well.

Maybe influenced by expectations and any 95 year old that survives is very surprising, but that is a story I heard.
 
Heard it on TV, did a google search but nothing up yet.

So don't quote me on it.

I do wonder how they figure how many were missed? Was there a secondary test? And if so who is to say they didn't just pick up the virus later? Maybe they retest the initial sample?
I have not heard anything but my first guess would have been retest samples using another test.
 
I agree that there is no real evidence either way. My takeaway is not that it is definitely engineered, just that those claiming it is natural are full of it. The reasons they give are bogus once you understand we have been creating chimeric viruses and using No See'm for almost 20 years. I have seen a few "experts" say they see no evidence left behind showing engineering. Well if they used No See'm well duh. In addition, there are links to the military regarding the lab in Wuhan so who knows all that is going on in that facility.
I'm starting to wonder about Martenson a bit. Don't get me wrong, I've watched every one of his videos since he started talking about covid and he has generally been on target. His early intuitions about this becoming a major/deadly pandemic obviously turned out to be true. However, his almost fanatical attachment to a couple of controversial points - HCQ and now the lab-engineered virus idea - have me questioning his motives. Is he just taking controversial/opposing viewpoints hoping to be proven right later? Back in January most didn't really seem too concerned with covid so at the time that was an opposing viewpoint. Since I never paid any attention to him before covid, I have no idea whether this is how he operates, i.e. harp on something controversial and if it pans out he looks like a star (and obviously he would benefit financially through subscriptions to his website). If he turns out wrong that kind of stuff will probably be quickly forgotten, for instance he'll just stop talking about HCQ if all the random trials show no benefit.

I don't know...still watch but starting to get a bit suspicious.
 
I agree that there is no real evidence either way. My takeaway is not that it is definitely engineered, just that those claiming it is natural are full of it. The reasons they give are bogus once you understand we have been creating chimeric viruses and using No See'm for almost 20 years. I have seen a few "experts" say they see no evidence left behind showing engineering. Well if they used No See'm well duh. In addition, there are links to the military regarding the lab in Wuhan so who knows all that is going on in that facility.
Again I have no knowledge here, and it points to the rabbit hole you can go down trying to verify these assertions, but in regards to the No See'ms, he pointed to an old paper/document/whatever-it's-called about these viral manipulations that leave no trace. 15 year's old or something like that.

Maybe back then you could not notice the manipulation, but now scientists are able to notice these manipulations?

Much like the back and forth on the drugs we have seen in this thread, the verifications of statements, and then the verifications of the verifications seem endless.
 
NJ's Tuesday death total at 185(Like yesterday we did see a late day #'s jump up from 161).

Compared to last Tuesday of 280.

Mon/Tues 2 day total:

Last week: 621.
This Week: 385.

So certainly heading in the right direction in this regard.

New cases are not out for today, but yesterdays total of 942 was the lowest since March 25th. A bit of a head scratcher on this point though as you would suspect cases to remain fairly high as testing increases. Are the #'s really dropping that much? Not sure on total tests.

Edit: Derp, meant to say Wed, at least in terms of announced day. The comparison is still similar days week to week.
 
Last edited:
NJ's Tuesday death total at 161(note the daily number did rise slightly later in the day yesterday).

Compared to last Tuesday of 280.

Mon/Tues 2 day total:

Last week: 621.
This Week: 361.

So certainly heading in the right direction in this regard.

New cases are not out for today, but yesterdays total of 942 was the lowest since March 25th. A bit of a head scratcher on this point though as you would suspect cases to remain fairly high as testing increases. Are the #'s really dropping that much? Not sure on total tests.
Like all the data, I’d like to know how the drop looks over the period from the non LTC group. I really think we need to look at the data in those two tranches.
 
NJ's Tuesday death total at 161(note the daily number did rise slightly later in the day yesterday).

Compared to last Tuesday of 280.

Mon/Tues 2 day total:

Last week: 621.
This Week: 361.

So certainly heading in the right direction in this regard.

New cases are not out for today, but yesterdays total of 942 was the lowest since March 25th. A bit of a head scratcher on this point though as you would suspect cases to remain fairly high as testing increases. Are the #'s really dropping that much? Not sure on total tests.

New cases = 1028, per Murphy's briefing.
 
New cases = 1028, per Murphy's briefing.
yesterday 942.

So this weeks Tuesday/Wed(announced day) 2 day total of 1970.

Last week. 2714.

If we are seeing that level of drop in the midst of increased testing(again don't know the #'s) then we are doing this pretty well.

Florida by comparison has seen their 2 day total of new cases increase from 1100 to 1400 week over week.
 
Last edited:
According to NJ's covid dashboard.

Our high in terms of hospitalizations occured a little less then a month ago with a little over 8000 cases, as of yesterday we had 4226.

ICU, similar time frame, high of 2080, currently 1226.

Venilators, again similar time frame, high of 1700, currently at 928.

Dashboard states we are currently at 29.8% of ventilator capacity, which would put total # of ventilators at around 3100, and high use of ventilators at 54.8%. Don't know, if and by how much we increased ventilator capacity because of covid.

Another Edit: Looks like we had about 2000 ventilators prior to Covid.

https://www.njspotlight.com/2020/04...-how-nj-is-preparing-for-a-possible-shortage/




Though the dashboard does list total # of tests I don't see a daily breakdown.

Edit:Did find this on the dashboard.

"New Jersey will double its testing capacity and increase to at least 20,000 tests per day by the end of May. This capacity will be built out moving forward with a minimum of 25,000 tests completed per day by the end of June. Currently, there are 135 public and privately-operated specimen collection sites statewide. In addition to the recently announced 11 Rite Aid locations, CVS will have swab-and-send testing capabilities at 50 of their stores across New Jersey by the end of the month."

So maybe we test 12,000 a day right now?
 
Last edited:
Some really simple math...we are at 84k deaths now. There are 11 weeks until the end of July, so we'd only require about 800 deaths per day (that's 16 per state on average) to get to 147k. Considering we're averaging over 1000/day right now and many states are relaxing restrictions, it's hard to see the death rate falling significantly.

What could help...if people keep social distancing and wear masks, if there is a "summer lull" in virus transmission, if especially vulnerable populations are protected, if evolving treatment protocols reduce death rates.
One thing that most certainly reduce deaths is the escalation of Leronlimab from EINC use to compassionate use so that doctors do not require approval before every use. The company said today they should know in a day or 2 whether the FDA will approve for compassionate use. Finally today in the FDA statement, they are expediting drugs showing early positive treatment results, and Leronlimab was specifically mentioned.
What is most interesting is that Leronlimab, already having been in Phase 3 and 2b trials as a combination primary use drug for AIDS and triple negative breast cancer, prior to being used on Covid, had tremendous success in shrinking tumors, and the blood work revealed the levels of IG6 were reduced as well as other markers improved, so that would explain the success with Covid. The company is already trying for use in the UK and Mexico and going through the hurdles now but should know in a week or so.

One more question for the front line doctors, Rufubar and Letsgo1991 , are you trying to use it or get it for use on your patients?
 
It's not just the elderly and it's not just about the health care system - to me, it's much more about preventing 1MM or more additional US deaths over the next 6-18 months, assuming we open things up and allow the US to move towards herd immunity, which is what some seem to want.

There are 83MM people in the US aged 45-64 and the total death rate for these people from COVID in NYC is 1540 per 1MM, which translates to 127K deaths of people in the US between 45 and 64, assuming the NYC death rates are similar for what the US's will be, which should eventually be the case, even if it's not now, as there should be no reason NYC people would be more likely to die from the virus than anyone else, unless there's some demographic or health care system reason, which could be factors, but are likely minor ones. But NYC only has about 20-25% infected so far (20% as of 4/30, but the first two results were closer to 25%, so since more people have been infected since the antibody study, let's take the 25% number infected right now in NYC. So one needs to multiply that 25% infected by 2.4X to get the total number of deaths for 60% being infected or very close to herd immunity. That would up the number to 305K dead between 45-64.

There are 30MM people in the US 65-74 and the NYC death rates for them is 5020 per 1MM, which translates to 150K deaths of people in the US between 65 and 74, assuming the NYC death rates are similar for what the US's will be. But NYC only has about 25% infected so far, so one needs to multiply that number by 2.4X to get the total number of deaths for 60% being infected or very close to herd immunity. That would up the number to 360K dead between 65-74.

There are 19MM people in the US over 75 and the NYC death rates for them is 12,620 per 1MM, which translates to 240K deaths of people in the US for people 75 and over, assuming the NYC death rates are similar for what the US's will be. But NYC only has about 25% infected so far, so one needs to multiply that number by 2.4X to get the total number of deaths for 60% being infected or very close to herd immunity. That would up the number to 576K dead over 75.

And finally, there are 109MM people in the US 19-44 and the NYC death rates for them is 168 per 1MM, which translates to "only" 18K deaths of people in the US between 19 and 44, assuming the NYC death rates are similar for what the US's will be. But NYC only has about 25% infected so far, so one needs to multiply that number by 2.4X to get the total number of deaths for 60% being infected or very close to herd immunity. That would up the number to 43K dead between 19-44. In a typical flu season, about 3400 people from 18-49 (didn't have 19-44) die from the flu and that number would obviously be less (3000?) for 18-44.

That's about 1.28MM total US dead, which is a fair amount greater than the 950K total dead the Wharton model had last week, if we stopped all interventions/social distancing and went to herd immunity over the next 6 to maybe 18 months (because the rate of spread will be much slower in low population density areas). The calcs above assume no interventions and no treatment/cure/vaccine and 60% of the US becoming infected at herd immunity and dying at rates we see in NYC now. The calcs also assume the NYC ~25% infected number, from antibody testing is correct. There could obviously be errors in all of those assumptions, but even if the deaths were simply just the 950K deaths in the Wharton model that's still an insane level of deaths over the next 18 months or so.

Also, here's a reality check on the numbers above. NYC right now, has 19,700 deaths in 25% of its population of 8.5MM (2.12MM infected) so the infection fatality number right now is 0.93%. If that overall 0.93% number held for the 60% of 330MM that would eventually become infected, that would be 1.84MM US deaths. Even if we went with NY State numbers of 26K deaths in 15% of the population with antibodies out of 20MM, that's an IFR of 0.86%, which would translate to 1.70MM US deaths. We better hope there are a lot more people with antibodies in NYC/NY or that there is something unusual about NYC/NY death rates or that we have a real treatment (plasma/engineered antibodies?) soon or that transmission rates end up being slower than expected in less densely populated areas with less interventions, giving more time for a cure/vaccine. Also, keep in mind that true infection rates in the rest of the US are likely only around 3-5%, given the much slower outbreaks in much less densely populated areas - this is where a Federal antibody testing program would be nice.

These kinds of potential deaths are why we need to get transmission rates down to much lower levels, such that death rates will stay at low levels, especially until we have a treatment/cure/vaccine. And the only way to do that is aggressive testing, tracing, and isolating to quickly detect and snuff out flare-ups, along with wearing masks in public and at least moderate social distancing to prevent the flare-ups in the first place and minimize them when they occur. This is the direction the NE Region (NY, NJ, CT, RI, MA, PA, DE) are heading as well as CA, WA, and OR, which combined are about 1/3 of the US population (106MM) but not the direction much of the rest of the country is headed.

YGPkoMm.png



US Population By Age (2018)
gJjvYQQ.png


Sometimes I wonder if I'm missing something really important, but nothing obvious comes to mind. Hey @SkilletHead2 - being a numbers/math guy, who hasn't been immersed in this, as far as I can tell - can you check me here? Thanks.

Looks like the folks at 538 are very aligned with my thinking. The article talks a lot about herd immunity and transmission rates to get to herd immunity and how they can be heavily influenced by interventions, like testing/tracing/isolating and mask-wearing/social distancing, which are important concepts to undestand to know the worst case risks and what can be done to mitigate those risks. There's also some good discussions on what having antibodies means with regard to immunity/contagiousness, as well as population testing for antibodies to define prevalence of the infection.

However, at the end of the long article, they boil things down in almost the exact same way I've been doing for awhile: looking at the prevalence data from NY/NYC to see where we are where the worst outbreak has been and using that data on fatalities vs. infections (positive antibody tests, not viral tests) to get the NY IFR of 1.1%, so far. Then, to be conservative, they say that if the IFR is truly 0.5% (maybe it's artificially high in NY) for the virus across the US and if 70% eventually become infected (months if we stop interventions and 1-2 years if we follow through on interventions), then 1.1MM will eventually die in the US - and obviously if the IFR turns out to be NY's 1.1%, that would be over 2MM US deaths - all assuming no cure/vaccine.

Just using NYC's numbers, above, across every age group (so the IFR is different for each group) I came up with an estimate of 1.28MM dead, eventually if 60% herd immunity (1.49MM at 70% infected). That's because I was using actual IFRs. Whether it's 1MM or 2MM or 950K as per the Wharton model or >500K as per the JHU model, these are simply huge numbers of potential eventual US deaths if we stop our interventions and move towards herd immunity (assuming no cure/vaccine). It's why the NE US/West Coast are following the SK playbook (and the US playbook we ignored) of aggressive testing, tracing, and isolating to quickly detect and snuff out flare-ups, along with wearing masks in public and at least moderate social distancing to prevent the flare-ups in the first place and minimize them when they occur, while we phase in a return to the "new normal."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/without-a-vaccine-herd-immunity-wont-save-us/

In the U.S., there have been 81,507 deaths as of May 12. For a fatality rate of 0.1, the same as the seasonal flu, we’d have to find out that 81.5 million Americans, or nearly a quarter of the U.S. population, had already had COVID-19. But based on early serological surveys, the World Health Organization says it’s likely that only about 2 to 3 percent of the population has been exposed so far.

Some serological surveys have reported wildly different estimates of how many people may be immune. A recent survey in California, for example, found that something like 2 to 4 percent of the population had antibodies, while studies in Germany and Massachusetts found antibodies in 15 to 30 percent of those tested.

One reason for these huge variations could be that rates are genuinely higher in hotspots. Indeed, in New York, the hardest-hit city on the planet, as much as 21 percent of the population may have already been exposed, according to preliminary results from a serological survey. But if even in New York, less than a quarter of the population has antibodies, it’s pretty unlikely that levels are nearly that high in the rest of the country. And New York has also seen a huge number of deaths: at least more than 19,563 as of May 12. Even if this early estimate is correct and 21 percent of New York’s 8.4 million residents have already been infected, that comes out to 1.8 million people, which still puts the current fatality rate at 1.1 percent, or more than 10 times that of the seasonal flu.

“Looking at what percentage of the population might actually have been infected, the numbers of the cases are much higher and the case fatality rate looks like it might be around half a percent,” said Jeremy Rossman, a virologist at the University of Kent. “People say, ‘Oh that’s a trivial number, it’s minuscule.’ But, when you think about, say, the population of the United States, 0.5 percent is a tremendous number, and these are people’s lives.”

The other potential explanation for why those serology survey results are all over the map is there may be problems with the way they were conducted. None of the papers mentioned above have been published in peer-reviewed journals yet, and many experts have raised concerns about false positives and how people were recruited for studies, suggesting even these low levels might be overestimating the true prevalence of the disease.

So let’s go back to that 70 percent herd immunity threshold. If the fatality rate is around 0.5 and 70 percent of Americans have to get sick before their immunity starts protecting others, that means more than 1.1 million people would die. In New York, even having 21 percent of the population exposed, if that serological survey is accurate, has overrun hospitals and led to the death of one in every 400 New Yorkers, while the vast majority of the population remains susceptible.
 
I'm starting to wonder about Martenson a bit. Don't get me wrong, I've watched every one of his videos since he started talking about covid and he has generally been on target. His early intuitions about this becoming a major/deadly pandemic obviously turned out to be true. However, his almost fanatical attachment to a couple of controversial points - HCQ and now the lab-engineered virus idea - have me questioning his motives. Is he just taking controversial/opposing viewpoints hoping to be proven right later? Back in January most didn't really seem too concerned with covid so at the time that was an opposing viewpoint. Since I never paid any attention to him before covid, I have no idea whether this is how he operates, i.e. harp on something controversial and if it pans out he looks like a star (and obviously he would benefit financially through subscriptions to his website). If he turns out wrong that kind of stuff will probably be quickly forgotten, for instance he'll just stop talking about HCQ if all the random trials show no benefit.

I don't know...still watch but starting to get a bit suspicious.

Martenson came to my attention years ago not for his medical background but for his financial advice. He is a gold and silver guy which is fine except a lot of these people tend to pull for the economy to collapse because then gold and silver prices will spike. A lot of conspiracy theorist are in the precious metals industry which unfortunately taints the whole industry. Gold and silver is simply a hedge against the dollar. Period.

I think when many people hear that the virus may have originated in a lab, they think manufactured in a lab for nefarious purposes when the issue at least to me is an accidental containment issue.

Anthrax was accidentally released from a lab in Russia so it isn't like this is w/o precedence.

But your instincts are right to take Martenson with a grain of salt.
 
Spain's seroprevalence data (testing populations for antibodies) looks exactly like what I'd expect the US's to look like, with areas with major outbreaks at 10-15% (and locally up to 20%, like NYC) and areas with lesser outbreaks, in rural/low density areas showing 5% or less (parts of CA had 2-4% with much smaller outbreaks).

Overall, the prevalence was 5% and there were ~27K deaths through this time, so the infection fatality rate for this country of 47MM is 1.15% (27K/2.35MM infected).

https://www.isciii.es/Noticias/Noticias/Paginas/Noticias/PrimerosDatosEstudioENECOVID19.aspx

vAjFpI5.png
 
Last edited:
I think when many people hear that the virus may have originated in a lab, they think manufactured in a lab for nefarious purposes when the issue at least to me is an accidental containment issue.
I agree. It could be a virus that was being "studied" perhaps using gain of function type techniques, perhaps for vaccine development, who knows, then got released either accidentally or on purpose. But that doesn't mean it was developed as a bioweapon. It could also be a wild virus that was obtained directly from bats or some other animal and accidentally released. The claims about there being a "blockade" of traffic around the Wuhan lab in October are certainly suggestive if they are true, as is the possible early case in France. It also makes sense that virus researchers would tend to make statements like "there's no way this could be engineered" to cover their butts especially when it seems quite obvious that the type of engineering Martenson is talking about, has been going on for years.
 
I agree. It could be a virus that was being "studied" perhaps using gain of function type techniques, perhaps for vaccine development, who knows, then got released either accidentally or on purpose. But that doesn't mean it was developed as a bioweapon. It could also be a wild virus that was obtained directly from bats or some other animal and accidentally released. The claims about there being a "blockade" of traffic around the Wuhan lab in October are certainly suggestive if they are true, as is the possible early case in France. It also makes sense that virus researchers would tend to make statements like "there's no way this could be engineered" to cover their butts especially when it seems quite obvious that the type of engineering Martenson is talking about, has been going on for years.
Excellent points.
 
I agree that there is no real evidence either way. My takeaway is not that it is definitely engineered, just that those claiming it is natural are full of it. The reasons they give are bogus once you understand we have been creating chimeric viruses and using No See'm for almost 20 years. I have seen a few "experts" say they see no evidence left behind showing engineering. Well if they used No See'm well duh. In addition, there are links to the military regarding the lab in Wuhan so who knows all that is going on in that facility.

If some of these documentaries are true, the evolution of this virus moving from animal to human would take about 50 years but can be replicated in a matter of days in a lab. The fact that three strains of a virus that has a 50 year evolution rate is way too odd if you ask me. The purported complete shutdown of the Wuhan lab and surrounding area in October is way strange as well..

yesterday 942.

So this weeks Tuesday/Wed(announced day) 2 day total of 1970.

Last week. 2714.

If we are seeing that level of drop in the midst of increased testing(again don't know the #'s) then we are doing this pretty well.

Florida by comparison has seen their 2 day total of new cases increase from 1100 to 1400 week over week.

Keep an eye on Florida's numbers. If the rate continues to climb, they could be in trouble and will be a lesson in why to not open up too early.

One thing that most certainly reduce deaths is the escalation of Leronlimab from EINC use to compassionate use so that doctors do not require approval before every use. The company said today they should know in a day or 2 whether the FDA will approve for compassionate use. Finally today in the FDA statement, they are expediting drugs showing early positive treatment results, and Leronlimab was specifically mentioned.
What is most interesting is that Leronlimab, already having been in Phase 3 and 2b trials as a combination primary use drug for AIDS and triple negative breast cancer, prior to being used on Covid, had tremendous success in shrinking tumors, and the blood work revealed the levels of IG6 were reduced as well as other markers improved, so that would explain the success with Covid. The company is already trying for use in the UK and Mexico and going through the hurdles now but should know in a week or so.

One more question for the front line doctors, Rufubar and Letsgo1991 , are you trying to use it or get it for use on your patients?

I am encouraged by Leronlimab for its dual action indications and appears to be a very safe drug based on it's past clinical trials. We do not have it on formulary but are using the interleukin-6 (IL-6) receptor antagonist, Tocilizumab. Another benefit of Leronlimab, it's administered subcutaneously (small needle) which could be done at home. Tocilizumab and Remdesivir are administered intravenously (in the vein) which requires someone to start an IV.
 
Last edited:
I agree. It could be a virus that was being "studied" perhaps using gain of function type techniques, perhaps for vaccine development, who knows, then got released either accidentally or on purpose. But that doesn't mean it was developed as a bioweapon. It could also be a wild virus that was obtained directly from bats or some other animal and accidentally released. The claims about there being a "blockade" of traffic around the Wuhan lab in October are certainly suggestive if they are true, as is the possible early case in France. It also makes sense that virus researchers would tend to make statements like "there's no way this could be engineered" to cover their butts especially when it seems quite obvious that the type of engineering Martenson is talking about, has been going on for years.
Read this from 2015. Answers the question IMHO. I think it was an accidental release. Zhengli and Xing both from Wuhan Lab. Coincidence?

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985.pdf
 
  • Like
Reactions: biker7766
Cases are rising and deaths are rising..and that's based on your link above with 5/11 as the latest data reported. Check in a week or two. That will give a better idea how its trending and about the time I would expect to see a jump... if it happens.
Cases are going down, deaths are going down. Trends look positive for FL. See the link above.
 
I doubt we see too many alarming spikes. States are not fully opening, no schools, no sports, no bars, generally people are making efforts of some sort.

I imagine the gradual trend upwards will be more likely.

Yeah that’s what I hope. Well not gradual increase, maybe just a very long plateau, which at their levels would be ok.
 
Hope they stay that way and can’t wait for NJ to be at those levels. Either way looks like NJ starts to open slowly on Monday, which I think makes sense.
Most counties should be able to open more quickly. One size fits all is lazy leadership.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT