Cylinder Rule

[littlenis5]

After two of these fouls were called last nights, I decided to look it up. The rule was passed before the start of the 2016 season but I don’t recall ever seeing them called until last night.

Basically the rule is that a players space includes a diameter the width of their hips that extends to the front of the body. It only applies when the elbows are bent.

I think the rule was written in response to the sweep move players like Kevin Durant were using in the nba to fake refs into shooting fouls. This rule seems ridiculous as it is awfully hard to call consistently, especially given the various widths of players. I’m not sure how players are supposed to maintain contact around screens without worrying about this call.

seems like another way for refs to screw underdogs in close games.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

NCAA trying way too hard with all these rules.

Refs aren't stupid, don't need flop rule
Cylinder????
Reset shot clock to only 20 on a OREB???

All these new rules and a UMASS guy was in the 3 second lane for 10 seconds.....at least he didn't flop or violate someone's personal space being in his cylinder

 

[littlenis5]

NCAA trying way too hard with all these rules.

Refs aren't stupid, don't need flop rule
Cylinder????
Reset shot clock to only 20 on a OREB???

All these new rules and a UMASS guy was in the 3 second lane for 10 seconds.....at least he didn't flop or violate someone's personal space being in his cylinder

College refs are bad enough as it is. The more they complicate things the worse it gets.

I also don’t know how it’s now legal to slide into position, plant your feet for half a second, and get a charge call as occurred against Yeboah yesterday. That’s not “getting set position” and not the intent of the rule

 

[Jonb127]

How does Pike not get tossed after that call? It's a rule I've never heard of and they spent 20 minutes reviewing it to call it then? After reading the rule they weren't even right. He wasn't in the guys cylinder. The Pitt guy leaned into him and elbowed him in the face hard. I'm pretty sure I saw Pike apologize to the ref for his guys face getting in the way of his elbow. UNREAL.

 

[Rutgers36]

I agree. I cannot recall ever seeing it called.

 

[RU-ROCS]

After two of these fouls were called last nights, I decided to look it up. The rule was passed before the start of the 2016 season but I don’t recall ever seeing them called until last night.

Basically the rule is that a players space includes a diameter the width of their hips that extends to the front of the body. It only applies when the elbows are bent.

I think the rule was written in response to the sweep move players like Kevin Durant were using in the nba to fake refs into shooting fouls. This rule seems ridiculous as it is awfully hard to call consistently, especially given the various widths of players. I’m not sure how players are supposed to maintain contact around screens without worrying about this call.

seems like another way for refs to screw underdogs in close games.

Ridiculous. McConnell receives a flagrant elbow to the face after he's shoved into the Pitt ball handler by an illegal screen and Caleb gets the foul for allowing his face to make contact with the Pitt players swinging elbow. The only thing more comical than that call was the ACC network's Pitt-cheerleader Dan Bonner trying to justify it!

 

[ScarletR30]

I have never seen it called before the other night and we got 2 lol. College bball does have a ref problem. The amount of charges they call is ridiculous and more than I ever remember as well

 

[Russ Wood]

In the past three seasons I've covered three games when the officials called cylinder violation. I hate the rule because some players don't like ball pressure. When that is on the scouting report a defender will try to 'get into' that guy who doesn't like pressure when he has the ball which, in my opinion, is good defense.

The intent of the rule is to give the offensive player room to turn when he catches a pass or grabs a rebound but it is a bad rule. I asked two officials about it two seasons ago and both told me that most officials don't like the rule.

I also don’t know how it’s now legal to slide into position, plant your feet for half a second, and get a charge call as occurred against Yeboah yesterday. That’s not “getting set position” and not the intent of the rule

The block/charge rule changed starting with, I think, the 2013-14 season.

The "set position" part of the rule that had been around for decades was changed to having "legal guarding position" before the offensive player began his move to shoot or pass the ball. I think this may only pertain to a help/secondary defender.

I'm not a big fan of this rule change either.

 

[ScarletR30]

In the past three seasons I've covered three games when the officials called cylinder violation. I hate the rule because some players don't like ball pressure. When that is on the scouting report a defender will try to 'get into' that guy who doesn't like pressure when he has the ball which, in my opinion, is good defense.

The intent of the rule is to give the offensive player room to turn when he catches a pass or grabs a rebound but it is a bad rule. I asked two officials about it two seasons ago and both told me that most officials don't like the rule.
The block/charge rule changed starting with, I think, the 2013-14 season.

The "set position" part of the rule that had been around for decades was changed to having "legal guarding position" before the offensive player began his move to shoot or pass the ball. I think this may only pertain to a help/secondary defender.

I'm not a big fan of this rule change either.

It seems to me that the point college refs seem to differ from the NBA is the part of "when the player begins his shot." In the NCAA it seems to be when a player leaves his feet but IMO it should be when he begins his gather. It is really ugly bball to just see guys throwing themselves underneath players and think we are rewarding defensive players on a play that in all honesty is a little dangerous.

 

[RUChoppin]

The "set position" part of the rule that had been around for decades was changed to having "legal guarding position" before the offensive player began his move to shoot or pass the ball. I think this may only pertain to a help/secondary defender.

I'm not a big fan of this rule change either.

The "legal guarding position" also causes problems with the restricted area. The rule states "A secondary defender cannot establish initial legal guarding position in the restricted area for the purposes of drawing an offensive foul on a player who is in control of the ball (i.e., dribbling or shooting) or who has released the ball for a pass or try for goal."

That doesn't say "as long as they get their feet outside the arc at time of contact", it says their "initial" guarding position can't be in the restricted area. So, if someone who has a legal guarding position in the restricted area then sets their feet outside the arc, they shouldn't be eligible to draw a charge. And on the flip side, if you initiated legal guarding position outside the arc but then received contact after stepping on the line, you should still be eligible to draw a charge. But both of those scenarios would be very difficult to determine in real time... so in reality, it's "were your feet set outside the restricted area at time of contact".

 

[Russ Wood]

It seems to me that the point college refs seem to differ from the NBA is the part of "when the player begins his shot." In the NCAA it seems to be when a player leaves his feet but IMO it should be when he begins his gather. It is really ugly bball to just see guys throwing themselves underneath players and think we are rewarding defensive players on a play that in all honesty is a little dangerous.

For most of my life I watched ACC basketball so I got used seeing Duke players like Shane Battier, Steve Wojciechowski and Greg Paulus flopping all over the place (sometimes when there was zero contact).

 

[DHajekRC84]

How does Pike not get tossed after that call? It's a rule I've never heard of and they spent 20 minutes reviewing it to call it then? After reading the rule they weren't even right. He wasn't in the guys cylinder. The Pitt guy leaned into him and elbowed him in the face hard. I'm pretty sure I saw Pike apologize to the ref for his guys face getting in the way of his elbow. UNREAL.

Iirc, pike has been t'd 1 time in now nearly 100 games on the banks. In spite of how we've been really screwed WAY more than a few times...

 

[zebnatto]

I don’t know how many times of my life I’ve ever seen that cylinder call. I know I’ve never seen it twice in one game against one team.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I didn’t know the rule existed

 

[RUDave_01]

I didn't either and the fact that it was called twice in one game is ridiculous. The one that was especially poor was where the refs miss a blatant moving screen and McConnell takes an elbow to the face.
Maybe not an exact parallel, but in the Cowboys-Patriots game a couple of weeks ago there were two tripping calls on Dallas... there were only seven other ones the entire NFL season up until that game. Maybe something was said to the refs before the game and it was specifically on their radar to look for/whistle.

 

[zebnatto]

Can’t imagne many coaches whe teaching players to hard trap. Are also adding “but be sure not to get in his cylinder.”

 

[BillyC80]

I was livid when the refs made that cylinder call on McConnell.

First, I never heard of it and have never seen it called. Second, Caleb was held around his neck by an illegal screener and then got knocked down by an elbow to the face from the ball handler. Third, the refs correctly went to the video monitor to determine if it was a flagrant foul, and instead applied a rarely called cylinder violation on Caleb?

I doubt the refs were considering the cylinder call before looking at the video tape. Since when do you stop play just to see if a guy penetrated someone’s cylinder (while playing man defense and trying to play through an illegal screen)?

I don’t know how you can watch a replay of that sequence and determine that McConnell was at fault. Man, I stayed angry the whole game because of that call.

 

[RUChoppin]

The thing that bothered me most about the McConnell play is that I think it's the first time I've ever seen a crew go to the monitors to review whether a foul was flagrant or not.... only to rule that there was no foul on that player at all, and then call the foul on someone else entirely.

If they have the power during review to "get it right" and call whatever fouls they see (regardless of who the original foul was called on), then they should also have called the foul on the screener to have offsetting fouls.