Wow, talk about back to the future...IIRC the snub of VT as a full member at that time also helped set the stage for them leaving at the first opportunity. Thanks for posting that.
Joe P.
Describe the Big East Conference in a nut shell.
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Wow, talk about back to the future...IIRC the snub of VT as a full member at that time also helped set the stage for them leaving at the first opportunity. Thanks for posting that.
Joe P.
If I remember correctly, Seton Hall was one of the opposing members for RU's entry into the BE. I remember their AD asking what RU would bring to the table. HECK! If RU had not turn down the invite to join the BE at its formation, SH would not have been invited themselves. RU turned down that invite, supporting PSU's plan to have an all sports Eastern league. At that time, RU, 'Cuse, BC, PSU, Pitt, W.VA, Temple, and VT were ALL indies. Army and Navy were peripheral candidates to be invited. There could have been a few others, but that's also about the time they split D1 FB in two. Holy Cross, went to D1AA, and 'Nova dropped from D1A to AA in the ensuing years. 'Nova had a decent program but played in a HS like facility
I saw this in that article:
He was the last one to be talking about that, he was so out of touch with the way college football and TV/streaming media was trending.
Here's a couple real nuggets from that:
So we were talking to the Big Ten as far back as the early '90's - I know a bunch of people from other sites have claimed that wasn't happening. So adding us was a preemptive move by the Big East.
Good god, I wish they had gone through with forming that league instead of letting them placate us. Then again, that might have kept us from ending up in the Big Ten.
While I'm ecstatic for us to be in the B1G, my first preference would have still been a *viable* Big East...that being said, especially since that didn't happen, our current situation is beyond amazing.
Joe P.
Joe P.
Yes - if they had managed to get PSU in there in the beginning the conference would still be going strong - equal to the Big Ten on the field and ahead of the ACC, who they likely would have raided.
It was doomed from the start. The misfit collection of small basketball only schools mixed with large state schools who played football were never going to align their differing interests. Totally inept leadership (practically on a level never seen before in sports) did nothing to help the problem.
Agreed; just my opinion but had PSU been admitted during that first vote, the BE starts out as a 9-team conference, FSU ends up there instead of the ACC (which was falling by the wayside then), and from there, who knows...it's not out of the realm of possibility that South Carolina and Louisville join (UL coming off a Fiesta Bowl win in '91) and/ or the BE snagging Maryland (who IMO was always a BE team playing in the ACC) and Virginia to get to 12 teams.
Joe P.
This is assuming that different people would have been running the conference.
Which would have been true. Ultaimtely PSU would have threatened to leave for the BIg Ten if the FB schools didnt split off, and almost surely, they would have.
NOT OUR PROBLEM ANYMORE!!!! THANKS B1G!!!![cheers][cheers][cheers][cheers][cheers]
What you had was a major BB conference who kind of added football as a sideline. Eventually, they discovered what everyone else already knew...that football was driving the financial bus, not basketball!
Part of me will always miss what could have been for Eastern football, but that is now moot and I could not be happier that we are in the best athletic/academic conference in the country.
Part of me will always miss what could have been for Eastern football, but that is now moot and I could not be happier that we are in the best athletic/academic conference in the country.
Agreed. It took a long time, but RU won the prize. It is in the best conference it could have ever imagined. Although the fact that some folks were thinking about just that in the 90's shows RU was always looking in that direction - especially after Penn Sate went to the BIG.
Technically not true, as VIllanova dropped football entirely and then later brought it back as a I-AA program. But the point remains. And Rutgers didn't turn down any invitation -- we turned down a chance to go to the original meetings. We wouldn't even TALK to them about settling for a basketball league if we couldn't get all sports. That's more short-sighted than turning down any invitation would have been, because, as I've said before, with Penn State, Pitt, WVU and Villanova with us, there was no obvious guarantee the new league would take off the way it did. But not going to the meeting and at least talking about it was foolish.
Anyway, with Penn State, Pitt and West Virginia, you would have had real rivalries. With all of those teams, you have legit markets. I would have loved a real Eastern league. Not to say anything bad about the Big Ten -- which is a dream, of course -- but I'd rather have rivalries with teams we've played for years than with ... Iowa and yes, Minnesota.
Also interesting is that if the Big Ten was thinking about Rutgers in the mid-1990s, then our rise under Schiano and Mulcahy meant NOTHING to Delany. He already wanted us regardless because of the TV market. OH, and by the way, Tagliabue wasn't technically wrong about Long Island, but he, like so many others, seem to forget that a good chunk of New Jersey makes up a good chunk of the "New York" TV market. We don't need Long Island to make a big-time dent in this market, as already has been shown. Funny what an agenda will make a smart person say in public ...
A brilliant design and execution of a business plan by a truly visionary Dave Gavitt. He saw the future of a 24 hour cable sports network, and bought Row 1 Seat 1. Unfortunately his successors were unable to adapt to changing times.
IMO, Jake Crouthamel's account of BE history is definitive and he says Rutgers received one of the original invites, but turned it down - he doesn't mention any restrictions...unless you're referring to the invite in the 90s, which was only for football, with hoops/other sports remaining in the A-10.
http://cuse.com/sports/2001/8/8/history.aspx
I respectfully disagree about the resurgence of the program not meaning anything for our B1G invite. We went into the toilet shortly after joining our first real football conference and IMO had GS not pulled us out of the Shea Era and 2006 not happened there's no way Delany would have been able to sell the old guard B1G presidents on voting us in as members. Hell those same people were pissy about adding Penn State 25 years ago and they are an iconic brand.
When Penn State was added they were looking for a 12th school. This was in 1990 so 4 years before the articles I posted.
From what I understand, the schools that were being discussed were Rutgers, Pitt, and Nebraska.
Nebraska ending up becoming part of a new conference called the Big 12.
Pitt was rejected since they didn't add anything different from Penn State, in other words if you have Penn State you don't need Pitt.
Rutgers was rejected for not being ready. Rutgers wasn't really the research powerhouse yet that it is today. Also Rutgers was still playing in the 20,000 seat stadium built in 1938! However, the Big Ten really wanted to expand into New Jersey.
Here is an article from 1990 about this: http://www.post-gazette.com/Pitt/20...ould-have-seismic-effect/stories/201005230171
Rutgers really wanted to join the Big Ten, it was always their 1st choice. In 1989, Rutgers sent the Big Ten presidents a presentation as to why they should invite Rutgers.
Rutgers got AAU membership in 1989 and finally expanded the stadium in 1994. Rutgers also stopped playing Penn State in football in 1995.
IMHO, it wasn't until 2006 and that monster rating that we got that the Big Ten started to pay attention to Rutgers again. They still really wanted New jersey and NYC and maybe Rutgers had finally grown into their role.
From what I understand, the schools that were being discussed were Rutgers, Pitt, and Nebraska.
Nebraska ending up becoming part of a new conference called the Big 12.
Pitt was rejected since they didn't add anything different from Penn State, in other words if you have Penn State you don't need Pitt.
Rutgers was rejected for not being ready. Rutgers wasn't really the research powerhouse yet that it is today. Also Rutgers was still playing in the 20,000 seat stadium built in 1938! However, the Big Ten really wanted to expand into New Jersey.
Here is an article from 1990 about this: http://www.post-gazette.com/Pitt/20...ould-have-seismic-effect/stories/201005230171
Rutgers really wanted to join the Big Ten, it was always their 1st choice. In 1989, Rutgers sent the Big Ten presidents a presentation as to why they should invite Rutgers.
Rutgers got AAU membership in 1989 and finally expanded the stadium in 1994. Rutgers also stopped playing Penn State in football in 1995.
IMHO, it wasn't until 2006 and that monster rating that we got that the Big Ten started to pay attention to Rutgers again. They still really wanted New jersey and NYC and maybe Rutgers had finally grown into their role.
The University of Pittsburgh killed football in the Big East. Every single time Pitt played a big game that everyone was watching they shit the bed. The one and only time the league needed Pitt to roll over and die just like they do well every time some how they mustered up a huge victory knocking WVU out of the national championship game, which would have changed everything. Then they were the first to leave when expansion started up again.
Pitt also blew up the original Eastern conference with Penn State and was the head of the committee of the Big East to expand while secretly talking to the ACC.
that being said, you can't blame them for the Big East, they were just looking out for their own best interest.
that being said, you can't blame them for the Big East, they were just looking out for their own best interest.
I think we still had to pass the "Laugh Test" When Delany says to the B1G Presidents "We are going for Rutgers and the NYC TV market", the response can't be giggles. If we were still at Gruninger/Shea levels of football futility that might have been hard to overcome. Mulcahy/Pernetti/Schiano made it possible to get past that.
I would say they really had no chance to. With FB taking such prominence, any league that was heavily BB focused was going to die - but the BE couldnt NOT be heavily BB focused - it had a ton of BB only teams, and even the FB teams largely focused on BB. Once they rejected PSU and PSU went to the Big Ten - that was it. But really, inviting PSU would likely have lead to the death of the Big East even sooner - I suspect that PSU would have lead the move to split off from the BB onlies and raid the ACC and Metro conferences for a few teams as well.
The only real chance would have been to split off the BB schools and the FB schools, and the BB schools knew that wouldnt be detrimental to them, so they continously did everything they could to avoid it, inviting FB team after FB team. Its actually amazing that they kept it going for 30+ years.
As for Rutgers. I think srru is right. Delaney might have wanted Rutgers all the way back in 1990, but its not actually his decision. He had to convince 10 presidents that a team with no history of winning in D1A playing in a D1AA level FB stadium with D1AA levels of investment and a D1AA fan base was going to be worthwhile because it would bring in the NYC market. I mean we didnt get invited in 1990 - that pretty much tells you they thought we had more work to do.
Not sure Dave would have changed with the times and left the BB schools behind.
With Pitt, from what I've read it was them and Penn State together that blew up the 'Eastern 8' as an all-sports conference because they kept clashing on revenue sharing (they both wanted it stilted in their favor; PSU didnt want to share for football but wanted sharing for bball, while Pitt wanted it the other way around).
I was certain that while Pitt had the profile of a B1G school, they wouldn't get invited because they're literately right inbetween PSU and OSU. There's no way they'd go for it.
Joe P.
I was certain that while Pitt had the profile of a B1G school, they wouldn't get invited because they're literately right inbetween PSU and OSU. There's no way they'd go for it.
Joe P.
I think there is blame to go around for PSU, Pitt and 'Cuse. As long as they could not get together the CYOs schools could dominate to football's detriment. Not saying we were without sin but it was mostly one of omission.
Technically true, however, he made the statement two months (4/22/2010) before Nebraska accepted the B1G invitation (6/10/2010) to become their 12th team. Tagliabue made the statement to help protect Georgetown and the Big East.
Great vision: Our strategy is to leverage emerging TV access and local basketball talent to develop rivalries of national interest and grow revenue rapidly (Big East circa 1980)
Incompetent vision: With this plan, we will one day achieve a football conference championship game of South Florida vs San Diego State (Big East circa 2008)
Incompetent vision: With this plan, we will one day achieve a football conference championship game of South Florida vs San Diego State (Big East circa 2008)
What was the issue with cuse? From what I remember I think they were one of the FB-playing schools who either kept trying to maintain status quo and/or were against separation.
Another thing I thought about; BE football was a guinea pig not just for Thursday night football, but for the Music City and Pinstripe Bowls as well. IIRC the BE went 4-0 against the SEC in the Music City Bowl before the game switched to I think the ACC from the BE.
Joe P.
Yeah. This is really very true.
Conversely, the team that probably saved the conference for as long as physically possible and added some football credibility was West Virginia. They beat Georgia in the Sugar bowl in 2005 and then crushed Oklahoma in 2007. They won some HUGE out of conference games on national TV. Louisville also dismantled Florida in the Sugar the last year the Big East existed... but that was too little too late, clearly.
