Doubling the Post

[RUsojo]

illinois doubled us in the post. They're the only team in the conference who's 3 leading scorers are underclassmen. You do realize that like, its very common to double the post right? We're not talking about something crazy here like running a 1-3-1 zone as if that's just common sense

Probably why we had our best offensive game of the year. Doubling Rutgers in the post has got to be the dumbest thing a team can do.

We should’ve doubled Illinois once we realized we couldn’t defend G.

 

[RU MAN]

Pikiell isnt coaching for this year. this year is done. RU will lose in the 1st or 2nd round of Big 10 tournament regardless of what happened yesterday. Pikiell is coaching for next year. right now he has a bunch of freshman and sophmores who need to understand what it takes to win. i for one commend pikiell on not doubling. why double? to bail out terrible defense? RU just got taken to the woodshed by a Freshman. A Freshman. i am not bailing that out. Bail them out so Frazier or jordan can knock down wide open 3s in a game when we traded buckets all day? this is the big 10. MAN UP. No one is going to bail you out. these guys need to learn that.

Not only that but giorgi had had a career high but so did mcconnell. they offset each other.

Pancho, you make excellent points. Personally I would have doubled and/or gotten into more of the 2/3 zone. I realize we're a man-to-man D according to Pike's, comments, and in his post game comments, he also came out and mentioned he was concerned that Illinois has 3 kids who can knock down open threes. But if I recall correctly, Frazier or Ducomu was sitting with three fouls when Georgi went on a tear, so why Pike doesn't like to double is beyond me.

Personally, I would double and also zone. I can tell you this: after what happened on Saturday, no one in the league will let Georgi get away with two foot chippies without changing up their defense on them.

 

[Scangg]

Pike tried Doorson, he tried Johnson, he tried Carter, and he tried Omoruyi. NONE of them could stop Giorgi.

Philosophy is one thing, but when nothing you're doing is working on defense, you HAVE to try something else. Nobody is saying he needed to "double the post" on EVERY possession. I think people are just saying Pike should have tried to double the post to see if it would have worked, not every time, but once or twice.

After Giorgi hit 4 baby hook shots in a row in the second half like he was dunking the ball, and after ALL of our bigs were getting eaten alive, WHY NOT try and have the weak side guard/wing double from behind (with everyone else rotating accordingly)? At that point, instead of Giorgi 90% hitting yet another baby hook, I'd rather take my chances with: (1) Giorgi recognizing the double team from behind; (2) Giorgi not coughing the ball up; (3) Giorgi having the wherewithal to pass out of the double team; and (4) Illinois finding the open man as we rotate back. Alot has to go right for Illinois to have taken advantage of our doubling.

Why not try it even ONCE?

Exactlyyyyy. Nailed it. I generally don't like doubling the post but you have to try something different. Maybe could have held him to under 30 lol

 

[Scangg]

Probably why we had our best offensive game of the year. Doubling Rutgers in the post has got to be the dumbest thing a team can do.

We should’ve doubled Illinois once we realized we couldn’t defend G.

Generally speaking doubling a team in the post who is among the worst 3 point shooting teams isn't the dumbest thing a team can do. Doubling a great 3 point shooting team? Yes definitely

 

[RUsojo]

Generally speaking doubling a team in the post who is among the worst 3 point shooting teams isn't the dumbest thing a team can do. Doubling a great 3 point shooting team? Yes definitely

Were also one of the worst teams scoring in the post so I guess it goes both ways haha

 

[Unionst]

Of course pikiell doesnt want to lose. i am saying that pikiell wants to establish a certain identity around this program. he has core philosophies. apparently giving up 2s to avoid giving up 3s is one of them. to abandon your core philosophies in a meaningless game is something i would not do.

Everyone has a job to do as part of the game plan. they need to execute. Coaches do not change at a whim just to win games. if you need an example look at virgina umbc last year in the biggest upset every. virginia played right into UMBCs hands and lost. so please stop with this other coaches nonsense.

Maybe he could have taken out EO because EO was getting killed by a freshman. Maybe he should have put another defender in the game who was willing to make the plays necessary to help the team win.

If Shaq were to hit a wide open 3 would we be encouraging him to shoot more 3s? of course not.

Okay, now I understand your point better. I don’t disagree with you on core philosophies except you have to coach the team and situation you are given. And the situation clearly called for something different.

 

[knightinaz]

While it's easy to say Pike should've doubled the post but the prevailing coaching philosophy at every level today is to not double.

I was at a coach's clinic last fall where a HOF college coach in fact said that he'd rather let Alcindor (shows you how long he's been around the game) score 50 than let today's shooters spot up at the 3 point line.

There's a reason why some of the highest 3 point shooting percentages come after an offensive rebound. It's essentially the same thing. As long as 3 point shooting percentages continue to be at a ridiculous level (and climbing) coaches are not going to double the post.

That said, I would've liked to see Pike mix it up on Giorgi. Fronting or even 3/4 him to change it up. The other thing to remember is the defensive battle is lost once the offensive player establishes position. I thought our bigs could have been more physical with him before he caught it on the block by moving him up the lane. Forcing him to catch it a foot or 2 further away from the rim makes a big difference.

 

[Pancho1939]

also i need to re-watch the game to confirm this but there seemed to be only 3 or 4 times a double would have made sense. a couple points came from foul line, a couple came in first half when doubling would not have made sense, a couple came off the dribble, one or two were off rebounds... at the end of the day we are talking doubling on 3 or 4 possessions.

to be clear i think i would have at least doubled once or twice or at least faked it to change it up on him. hell i would have tried to get extra physical on a couple possession. at end of day pikiell could have made a change but the players should be a little embarrassed that it happened. And giorgi is a little obnoxious so that makes it worse.

 

[playorbplayd]

also i need to re-watch the game to confirm this but there seemed to be only 3 or 4 times a double would have made sense. a couple points came from foul line, a couple came in first half when doubling would not have made sense, a couple came off the dribble, one or two were off rebounds... at the end of the day we are talking doubling on 3 or 4 possessions.

to be clear i think i would have at least doubled once or twice or at least faked it to change it up on him. hell i would have tried to get extra physical on a couple possession. at end of day pikiell could have made a change but the players should be a little embarrassed that it happened. And giorgi is a little obnoxious so that makes it worse.

Yeah this is my thought process. Move was probably to double him at least one possession, maybe two to at least put the thought in his head the double may be coming any time he touched the ball down there. Getting to the 2H in a bit on a rewatch so I'll know sooner than later if it was even possible.

Guy was just locked in. Abused us down low and hit his FTs which he hadn't been doing.

 

[80RU]

Yeah this is my thought process. Move was probably to double him at least one possession, maybe two to at least put the thought in his head the double may be coming any time he touched the ball down there. Getting to the 2H in a bit on a rewatch so I'll know sooner than later if it was even possible.

Guy was just locked in. Abused us down low and hit his FTs which he hadn't been doing.

I might have hedged towards the double on occasion to see if he would pick up the dribble. But the bottom line is, he was just having a great day and hitting equally well with either hand.

 

[LOU-RU85]

If you are watching the MD vs Purdue game you can see how the double team works. Watch how Purdue does it. We should have done that vs Illinois and we win that game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Let me beat the double :cop: to report as of now Purdue is doubling down on Maryland bigs!!!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Fernando showing Purdue why doubling the post isn’t a no brainer. Painter needs to stop.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

And it screws up your d rebounding

 

[RutgersMO]

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Above is the baseline double I was talking about. Every player in america knows how to do this by middle school. Personally i prefer to double backside with a guard who after he forces the ball out sprints out to the opposite corner after the defense rotates as seen below.

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He’s doubling Pardon the last two times today...good he can learn and change

MO

 

[Night Man]

Where was Pardon tonight? Great to see Pike showing flexibility.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Yeah they doubled on the backside several times, and it stopped Pardon in his tracks. There were no easy lefty baby hooks in THIS game!!

 

[Yeah Baby]

Watched the second half yesterday and Pike was doubling down a little but when he did that guy Falzone hit a couple of 3’s. I thought they said calzone which made me hungry. Skinny Vinny’s had great calzones back in the 80’s. Who else likes calzones?

Anyway, this thread is silly. Doubling down is situational. Switching on screens is situational. Overall this team plays hard and plays solid D. The young kids are really getting better every game. Fun team to watch and root for. Thanks Pike.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Yeah they doubled on the backside several times, and it stopped Pardon in his tracks. There were no easy lefty baby hooks in THIS game!!

They were not easy shots and nobody hits that many tough shots in a row. The guy had a monster game. I didn’t see Illinois doubling McConnel who also had a great game. Sometimes you tip your cap.