Question for the guys who think Duke is a good shooter, a strong rebounder, and will see meaningful minutes: Why did he start so many games last year?
Duocore
- Thread starter richthedentist
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He started all last year - I doubt he has "utter cluelessness" at this point.
Neither Doucoure or Carter are freshmen - they both have live game experience under their belt, so they'll hardly be coming in cold against our "toughest competition".
Against smaller schools last year, we also didn't use a heavy rotation of bigs - really just using 2 primary bigs each game, and never seeing 40 min from our centers. This year's setting up similarly so far through two games.
Total minutes by game between Doucoure, Doorson, and Sa last year across the non-P6 schools:
CCNY: 36 (15 Doucoure, 12 Sa, 9 Doorson)
CCTSt: 33 (20 Sa, 8 Doucoure, 5 Doorson)
Clev St: 36 (24 Doucoure, 12 Sa, 0 Doorson)
Copp St: 24 (15 Doucoure, 9 Sa, 0 Doorson)
Bryant: 35 (22 Doucoure, 13 Doorson, 0 Sa)
ECU: 34 (17 Doucoure, 15 Doorson, 2 Sa)
NJIT: 35 (18 Sa, 15 Doucoure, 2 Doorson)
FDU: 30 (14 Doucoure, 14 Doorson, 2 Sa)
Fordham: 26 (16 Sa, 10 Doucoure, 0 Doorson)
Stony Brook: 27 (15 Doucoure, 6 Doorson, 6 Sa)
Hartford: 32 (15 Doucoure 12 Sa, 5 Doorson)
And even though Sa (91, 1 DNP) and Doorson (69, 3 DNP) didn't see a lot of minutes over those 11 games, they both saw more significant minutes later in the year against bigger lineups.
Again, not worried about either Doucoure or Carter yet. Right now they're clearly #3 and #4 among our 6-9/220+ guys, and we haven't really need to go that deep for bigs yet. If they start seeing more minutes and aren't performing, then I may start to be more concerned.
Have zero info here...zero. Educated guess Pike wanted Duke here and said to classify in 2017-18 and you will have playing time. Just a guess.
First off he's not utterly clueless. Second, Drexel is small. That doesn't prepare him for the type of matchup he will see in the B1G. He gets a better sense of that battling in practice than he would against the small Drexel front court. Third his role is to bang and grab rebounds in spurts in limited minutes off the bench. Not everyone can play 20 min a game. We don't have a terrible roster anymore. We have good solid players who will be squeezed for minutes. This is a good problem. Get used it. We have 6 new players and lost high usage players. Pike wanted more minutes to go to finding combos and gelling with other players who will play in smaller lineups instead of using those minutes on a matchup for Doucoure that doesn't make sense and doesn't prepare him for matchups he will actually face when we need him for some minutes against bangers in the post. You sound clueless not Doucoure
So neither of you were able to answer my question.
The reason why Duke started so many games last year was because we were INCREDIBLY thin in the front court, and Pike had no other choice but to play him to chew up minutes. The reason why we saw him early(starting) in games rather than later is because the staff had zero confidence in him, and figured it was better for him to screw things up earlier rather than in crunch time. How many games was he on the floor in the closing minutes? I can't remember one. Was that because of "matchups" too? Please.
When you hear Pike say, "Wasn't a good matchup....yada yada..." you have to understand that he's protecting his players (as he should). That's coach speak, aka bullshit. Please use a little common sense. You're going to sit your stud on the bench because the other team is smaller??? This is basketball. If you have a guy that can play, he'll play, regardless of "matchups". Let the other team worry about matchups because our guy is a baller. That's the reality of the situation.
The reason why Duke started so many games last year was because we were INCREDIBLY thin in the front court, and Pike had no other choice but to play him to chew up minutes. The reason why we saw him early(starting) in games rather than later is because the staff had zero confidence in him, and figured it was better for him to screw things up earlier rather than in crunch time. How many games was he on the floor in the closing minutes? I can't remember one. Was that because of "matchups" too? Please.
When you hear Pike say, "Wasn't a good matchup....yada yada..." you have to understand that he's protecting his players (as he should). That's coach speak, aka bullshit. Please use a little common sense. You're going to sit your stud on the bench because the other team is smaller??? This is basketball. If you have a guy that can play, he'll play, regardless of "matchups". Let the other team worry about matchups because our guy is a baller. That's the reality of the situation.
Lmao, no one ever said he was a stud. He will play in BIG play when teams have bigger guys and we need a big body out there if people get into foul trouble or to just take a couple fouls now that we have depth in the frontcourt.
Please use a little common sense.
None of the three centers last year really stood out from the others, and they got about equal time. Doorson was still fighting back from injury, and ended up taking the starting spot at the end of the year. None of them were a "stud" - and none of the four on the roster today are "studs" that will see guaranteed minutes against any opponent, either.
I'm not looking at any of the centers we have on the roster right now and seeing Isaac Haas or Roy Hibbert. It seems that Doorson and Johnson are the clear top two centers on the roster so far - and Doucoure/Carter would be used more as depth there and behind Omoruyi. Pike had said he was looking more at Doucoure at the 4 during preseason interviews, and Carter came in as a 4.
It may end up that Doorson/Johnson will lock down about 30-35 min at the 5, and Omoruyi will lock down 25-30 at the 4. The rest will depend on who we're playing... whether we play small with Harper/Thiam filling in the other minutes at the 4, and seeing Omoruyi play some time at the 5, or whether we play bigger with Doucoure/Carter filling in those 15-20 min and keeping Thiam/Harper on the wing.
Right now, two games against smaller, weaker programs isn't really telling me much about how our big man rotations will work later in the year. A game against a smaller/faster SJU won't really tell me that, either.
None of our 4 big men will see guaranteed minutes? That's insane.
The current rotation and performance of Shaq D and Myles is very telling of things to come. They're going to play...a lot.
Not in the "25+ every night" variety of the other two "stud" big men I mentioned, no.
You're getting really worked up over two games over FDU and Drexel. In 2016-17, we also played both of those teams.
Against Drexel: Newcomer Candido Sa looked great with 23 min, 11 pts, 6 rbs, 3 blks
Against FDU: Sa again looked solid with 16 min, 11 pts, 4 rbs, 1 blk, but got into foul trouble.
Those were his two best performances that year, and his two highest scoring career games on the Banks. Unfortunately, those games weren't indicative of how he'd fare against tougher opponents.
In our first two games against those same teams, Johnson has averaged 19.5 min, 4 pts, 6 rbs and Doorson has averaged 17 min, 4 pts, 6.5 rbs. While both had given us solid minutes, I wouldn't call either of those "stud" numbers against weak competition - and the sample size is still really small.
Not worried yet about either Doucoure or Carter after two games against warm up teams - nor do I expect Johnson/Doorson to be one of the best 3 players on the floor at any given time just yet.
I would advise you to stop looking at stats and watch the players play. One of our 2nd year bigs looks completely lost on both ends of the floor. That is very disruptive to his other 4 teammates.
And I'd advise to wait until you have more than a two game sample size and have seen the players play against opponents that are anywhere close to their level before making judgments.
These first games were tune ups. SJU will be more of a challenge, but again a smaller/faster roster. Then EMU, and another tune up in BU, before a stretch of challenging games.
Not ready to write anyone off after the first two games back against two of the 3-4 weakest teams we'll face this year - especially when they've only played a combined 18 minutes, mostly in mop up time.
Looking forward to how the team takes shape over the next few weeks.
Doicoure is making the transition to playing More of the four and let’s see what happened with his development
But, he is clearly behind Johnson, doorson and Eugene in the 4 and 5 slots and likely Harper someday ...so he needs to up he’s game
I would like to see him be groomed to be a center with Johnson ....
But, he is clearly behind Johnson, doorson and Eugene in the 4 and 5 slots and likely Harper someday ...so he needs to up he’s game
I would like to see him be groomed to be a center with Johnson ....
The 4 and 5 were EO Thiam Doorson and Myles... Which of them should Doucoure be taking minutes from? Not everyone can play. We have players who might start or play big minutes on Rutgers teams of the past who get squeezed for minutes this year bc of the depth and skill of the other options Pike has. Doucoure is going to be fine in his role off the bench banging against the big men. We might not see a lot of Doucoure or Carter for a few weeks. It's not bc they stink it's bc the roster is finally skilled and deep. THIS IS A GOOD PROBLEM. The program has improved. Get used to good players struggling to fight for minutes
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