Eligibility Rules?

[zappaa]

Since college athletes are handsomely paid for their participation in revenue producing sports, and pursue higher paying revenue streams via the portal….How long before a judge rules eligibility rules are unconstitutional and prevent a continuation of making a living.
Let’s assume AK is not an NFL level QB, why shouldn’t we just pay him and he can stay here until he quits or someone beats him out?
You know, “it’s the Wild West” after all !

 

[Knight Shift]

Since college athletes are handsomely paid for their participation in revenue producing sports, and pursue higher paying revenue streams via the portal….How long before a judge rules eligibility rules are unconstitutional and prevent a continuation of making a living.
Let’s assume AK is not an NFL level QB, why shouldn’t we just pay him and he can stay here until he quits or someone beats him out?
You know, “it’s the Wild West” after all !

At some point, however, it has to end when the student athlete ceases to a "student," and whatever twisted definition athletes want to use to define student.

Suppose that now 7-8 years post high school would be a limit if a "student" athlete becomes a graduate student. Perhaps, if they pursue a PhD/MBA/JD, they could milk that out to 10-12 years. 😉 The time may come soon when college athletics may just have a loose association with the universities?

If things don't pan out after 5 or 6 years to pursue a college career, hopefully these athletes don't wind up like Blutarsky:

 

[bac2therac]

Definitely could see 6-8 years of eligibility and yearly flipping

 

[Plum Street]

At some point, however, it has to end when the student athlete ceases to a "student," and whatever twisted definition athletes want to use to define student.

Suppose that now 7-8 years post high school would be a limit if a "student" athlete becomes a graduate student. Perhaps, if they pursue a PhD/MBA/JD, they could milk that out to 10-12 years. 😉 The time may come soon when college athletics may just have a loose association with the universities?

If things don't pan out after 5 or 6 years to pursue a college career, hopefully these athletes don't wind up like Blutarsky:

I mean one can continually go on for advanced degrees that could take you into retirement player age

If they ever become”employees” with ability to be here for years , Rutgers can use the NJ public pension system and benefits as a recruiting/retention strategy …screw the field house at that point !

 

[Knight Shift]

I mean one can continually go on for advanced degrees that could take you into retirement player age

If they ever become”employees” with ability to be here for years , Rutgers can use the NJ public pension system and benefits as a recruiting/retention strategy …screw the field house at that point !

The whole enchilada would be for them to become architecture majors (I don't think Rutgers offers that degree), or urban planning or civil engineering students whose capstone project is to design the ultimate fieldhouse, and then keep changing the parameters to keep them in school.

Kind of curious about what @NickRU714 thinks about this. If colleges can give coaches multi-year multi-million dollar contracts, why not "student" athletes making far less per year (for now!!!).

At some point, a reset and/or some more guidelines will be needed.

 

[rurichdog]

I mean one can continually go on for advanced degrees that could take you into retirement player age

If they ever become”employees” with ability to be here for years , Rutgers can use the NJ public pension system and benefits as a recruiting/retention strategy …screw the field house at that point !

At that point it wouldn't be a field house for the fans to pay for, it would be a Union Hall, and the players could pay for it themselves.

 

[e5fdny]

At some point, however, it has to end when the student athlete ceases to a "student," and whatever twisted definition athletes want to use to define student.

Suppose that now 7-8 years post high school would be a limit if a "student" athlete becomes a graduate student. Perhaps, if they pursue a PhD/MBA/JD, they could milk that out to 10-12 years. 😉 The time may come soon when college athletics may just have a loose association with the universities?

If things don't pan out after 5 or 6 years to pursue a college career, hopefully these athletes don't wind up like Blutarsky:

Well he became a US Senator so…🤷‍♂️

The whole enchilada would be for them to become architecture majors (I don't think Rutgers offers that degree), or urban planning or civil engineering students whose capstone project is to design the ultimate fieldhouse, and then keep changing the parameters to keep them in school.

At some point, a reset and/or some more guidelines will be needed.

It does not.

If it did I’d have a lot more money in my pocket right now. LOL

But that in-house idea is a good one. Not sure why some Cook kids in the Landscape Architecture program can’t spiffy up some of the grounds around our facilities.

 

[zappaa]

Something to ponder!
Why should the QB Michigan flipped for the huge sum of 10. Million be on scholarship?
Let him pay his own tuition out of the 10 large and be a pay for play walk on!
That way he doesn’t count against scholarship allotment.
Dylan and Ace can afford to pay their own tuition… two lottery pick walk ons!

 

[mdk01]

The NFL perspective on this might be interesting.

 

[ruinac]

The NFL perspective on this might be interesting.

We’ll go back to the days when college football was bigger than the NFL.

 

[RU_DIO]

The whole eligibility and NIL rules issues will not be resolved until Congress gets involved. Hopefully sooner than later. NCAA doesn't have the power to fix this.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

At some point, however, it has to end when the student athlete ceases to a "student," and whatever twisted definition athletes want to use to define student.

Suppose that now 7-8 years post high school would be a limit if a "student" athlete becomes a graduate student. Perhaps, if they pursue a PhD/MBA/JD, they could milk that out to 10-12 years. 😉 The time may come soon when college athletics may just have a loose association with the universities?

If things don't pan out after 5 or 6 years to pursue a college career, hopefully these athletes don't wind up like Blutarsky:

To be fair Blutarsky did become a Senator.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Rutgers’ Division of Continuing Studies offers programs, online degrees, and certificates for the lifelong learner.

iirc, my diploma guaranteed me some sorts of lifetime benefits.. library access, etc. And I could pay for recreation facilities access.. cheap, IIRC.. and played ball at Werblin for awhile using that. Until the June humidity and that pool made the floor sticky and destroyed a knee.

Why not play as long as you take classes. Education for a lifetime.. or at least an ability to play a sport. I'd root for Rutgers Alums to beat PSU Alums.. why not? But no one should be able to BUY or accept an alum of another school. Once you graduate.. or do your 5 to play 4, you are locked into that college team.. period. Once you stop playing for your college team.. move onto NFL or UFL or whatever... but no more NCAA.

Meh.. forget that... welcome wild west and one day Rutgers may beat the Superbowl Champs.. iirc, some college all-star team came close in one preseason game back in the 70s.. or was it 60s?

If the AAU, Amateur Athletic Union, is no longer for amateurs.. why should the National Collegiate Athletic Association have such limits?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Definitely could see 6-8 years of eligibility and yearly flipping

At this point, I’d actually be okay with a rule that allows for continuation through attainment of one graduate degree earned within a set time window. I feel strongly that the school element, however trivial, is important optically for branding connection to the school. But extension of eligibility might actually stabilize things a bit in terms of incentive for program building. Longer term NIL deals and whatever.

 

[satnom]

NFL needs to push salaries up and separate further from college. Otherwise you’ll have more than just borderline not quite NFL level players continue into their mid-20s playing college football and also have late round/free agent type players get paid handsomely and enjoy the college life.

GO RU

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Since college athletes are handsomely paid for their participation in revenue producing sports, and pursue higher paying revenue streams via the portal….How long before a judge rules eligibility rules are unconstitutional and prevent a continuation of making a living.
Let’s assume AK is not an NFL level QB, why shouldn’t we just pay him and he can stay here until he quits or someone beats him out?
You know, “it’s the Wild West” after all !

The rules are tied to the normal path most college students take to finish a degree. So there is at least a basis for why they exist.

A better challenge would be why professional leagues, like the NFL & NBA, are allowed to deny entry until players have graduated a certain number of years from HS. That's more a restraint of trade than any student athlete eligibility rules.

 

[zappaa]

The rules are tied to the normal path most college students take to finish a degree. So there is at least a basis for why they exist.

A better challenge would be why professional leagues, like the NFL & NBA, are allowed to deny entry until players have graduated a certain number of years from HS. That's more a restraint of trade than any student athlete eligibility rules.

You can sign anyone out of high school.

 

[RU#1fan]

NFL needs to push salaries up and separate further from college. Otherwise you’ll have more than just borderline not quite NFL level players continue into their mid-20s playing college football and also have late round/free agent type players get paid handsomely and enjoy the college life.

GO RU

Maybe revise the decades old rule of have to wait 3 years of college ball to go the the NFL.

 

[Knight Shift]

This young man, who has quite a storied NIL history, may need 12 years before he sees the field.

 

[miket007]

The NFL perspective on this might be interesting.

For some reason i'm thinking the NFL and Players association are gonna change contracts around and really cut that 1st contract and pay more to veterans now that college players are getting paid....

 

[zappaa]

Can someone answer why a kid making 10 million at Michigan shouldn’t pay his own tuition and not use a scholarship?

 

[mdk01]

Can someone answer why a kid making 10 million at Michigan shouldn’t pay his own tuition and not use a scholarship?

Would that lead to kids getting full scholarships but no NIL and a larger roster getting some sort of aid?

 

[Doctor Worm]

Can someone answer why a kid making 10 million at Michigan shouldn’t pay his own tuition and not use a scholarship?

Under the new rules, with the 105 scholarship limit and the 105 roster limit being one and the same, the point is moot.

 

[RUich]

The ongoing demise of college sports is already on full bore speed. Making changes will just make it even more of a joke. I am finding many of my friends have pretty much given up on it and are taking their interests in other directions.
Now that any chance of Rutgers, especially in football, have evaporated of ever being an contender in the league, it is now back to the days when a bowl invite was the treasure you worked for. Now even bowls are jokes. The number of fans at them should prove that point.

 

[zappaa]

The ongoing demise of college sports is already on full bore speed. Making changes will just make it even more of a joke. I am finding many of my friends have pretty much given up on it and are taking their interests in other directions.
Now that any chance of Rutgers, especially in football, have evaporated of ever being a contender in the league, it is now back to the days when a bowl invite was the treasure you worked for. Now even bowls are jokes. The number of fans at them should prove that point.

It’s pretty pointless!
We get excited by the GS portal gets and our seeming ability to retain players, but when you watch these playoff teams play, you realize just how impossible it is for us to create the necessary depth and acquire the pure talent to compete.

 

[mildone]

Well he became a US Senator so…🤷‍♂️

🤣

 

[e5fdny]

The ongoing demise of college sports is already on full bore speed. Making changes will just make it even more of a joke. I am finding many of my friends have pretty much given up on it and are taking their interests in other directions.
Now that any chance of Rutgers, especially in football, have evaporated of ever being an contender in the league, it is now back to the days when a bowl invite was the treasure you worked for. Now even bowls are jokes. The number of fans at them should prove that point.

It’s pretty pointless!
We get excited by the GS portal gets and our seeming ability to retain players, but when you watch these playoff teams play, you realize just how impossible it is for us to create the necessary depth and acquire the pure talent to compete.

And in a funny/strange way...we have ourselves to blame.

 

[Doctor Worm]

And in a funny/strange way...we have ourselves to blame.

How so?

 

[e5fdny]

How so?

Who really got the ball rolling with NIL?

I'm sure it would have happened sooner or later, but I seem to recall the most vocal or visible in the early days, if you will, wore Scarlet. And this isn't a blame game on my part either. Just an observation.

 

[mildone]

The whole eligibility and NIL rules issues will not be resolved until Congress gets involved. Hopefully sooner than later. NCAA doesn't have the power to fix this.

I don't see what Congress could do to restrict the earning rights or transfer rights of student-athletes that won't be overturned by SCOTUS. Ultimately, it will probably be in the best interests of all stakeholders for college athletes to form a union and then resolve various issues via negotiations. This might work because all the stakeholders want to keep the money flowing and enacting certain restrictions might help with that, giving student-athletes an incentive to go along with it.

But any restrictions imposed on student-athletes without their agreement, that aren't also imposed on everyone else, seems pretty unlikely to succeed.

 

[mildone]

Can someone answer why a kid making 10 million at Michigan shouldn’t pay his own tuition and not use a scholarship?

It's not about "should" or "shouldn't". It's about attracting top talent.

As soon as Michigan attempts to enforce such a policy, OSU would have less competition for top athletes because they'd be happy to offer scholarships to kids making any amount of money. It's the same reason schools don't pull the scholarships of outlier scholarship students who form incredibly profitable businesses while still in school. It benefits the school to NOT do that sort of thing so they can attract the best and brightest.

 

[NickRU714]

Who really got the ball rolling with NIL?

I'm sure it would have happened sooner or later, but I seem to recall the most vocal or visible in the early days, if you will, wore Scarlet. And this isn't a blame game on my part either. Just an observation.

Oh. I was thinking it's fans who are to blame for this.

The reason salary caps work in professional sports is because "fans" don't look to supplement and feel the need to help.

If the Giants didn't have the cap space for a free agent, the fans don't say "well sign for the minimum and then we'll give you the extra $2m on the side."

But because mega boosters/donors need validation through CFB, they are always going to pay elite talent out of their own pocket.

It's literally college athletics fan culture "it's your responsibility to fund the program through additonal donations."

 

[e5fdny]

Oh. I was thinking it's fans who are to blame for this.

The reason salary caps work in professional sports is because "fans" don't look to supplement and feel the need to help.

If the Giants didn't have the cap space for a free agent, the fans don't say "well sign for the minimum and then we'll give you the extra $2m on the side."

But because mega boosters/donors need validation through CFB, they are always going to pay elite talent out of their own pocket.

It's literally college athletics fan culture "it's your responsibility to fund the program through additional donations."

Not by me.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Can someone answer why a kid making 10 million at Michigan shouldn’t pay his own tuition and not use a scholarship?

I think I can answer though the reason is probably not what you want to hear. The universities “need” the players to be student athletes. To continue to exist in any form, so does the NCAA. The only ones who don’t care whether or not they are forced to matriculate as actual students are the players themselves.

 

[NickRU714]

Can someone answer why a kid making 10 million at Michigan shouldn’t pay his own tuition and not use a scholarship?

Why does HC Schiano making $4m a year need Rutgers to give him a $5k clothing stipend and a country club membership?
He can't buy clothes on $4m?

It's because if someone didn't offer the "benefit", someone else would.

 

[mildone]

I think I can answer though the reason is probably not what you want to hear. The universities “need” the players to be student athletes. To continue to exist in any form, so does the NCAA. The only ones who don’t care whether or not they are forced to matriculate as actual students are the players themselves.

That addresses a different question than what @zappaa asked.

The answer to zap's question is what I said in my earlier post (and what @NickRU714 said just above). The schools have no choice but to offer scholarships and other perks if they want to attract talented players (and coaches).

I really can't understand why anybody has a problem with it. It's nothing more than simple supply and demand. A perfect expression of capitalism and a free market system. It's the American dream in action.

 

[e5fdny]

That addresses a different question than what @zappaa asked.

The answer to zap's question is what I said in my earlier post (and what @NickRU714 said just above). The schools have no choice but to offer scholarships and other perks if they want to attract talented players (and coaches).

I really can't understand why anybody has a problem with it. It's nothing more than simple supply and demand. A perfect expression of capitalism and a free market system. It's the American dream in action.

Well at some point there might be collusion. Maybe just the B1G, maybe the B1G/SEC, maybe everyone of the perceived “haves” decide something like what the NFL does works.

Then things change.

 

[mildone]

Well at some point there might be collusion. Maybe just the B1G, maybe the B1G/SEC, maybe everyone of the perceived “haves” decide something like what the NFL does works.

Then things change.

Change how?

The conferences, the NCAA, the schools can change some things, perhaps. But they cannot inhibit player's ability to get paid unless they somehow get the player's to agree to it. And they cannot force players to agree or it'll be challenged in court and the player's will win (again).

This is why some of us keep bringing up the idea of a player's union. With a player's union, there's a potential pathway to gaining broad player agreement with certain pay or transfer restrictions that the courts can support. Without it, it's the wild wild west and there's no legal incentive for player's to accept any type of restrictions.

The critical thing to understand is that material changes that impact pay, or restrict transfers that any other student can do, cannot be imposed on the players without their consent.

Or are you saying the conferences will eliminate any association with colleges altogether and just form a farm league? That is legally feasible, I guess. Although, once again, there would likely wind up being a player's union in order to make it to work (similar to the NFL player's union).

Problem with that approach is, if you remove that college association, viewership and attendance will almost certainly drop quite a lot. Minor league sports doesn't have the same pull that college sports do. So TV contract money will evaporate, endorsements will evaporate, etc.

The money will stop flowing. Can't imagine anybody wants that (not the players, the schools, the conferences, the NCAA, or the networks).

 

[RUinBoston]

Since college athletes are handsomely paid for their participation in revenue producing sports, and pursue higher paying revenue streams via the portal….How long before a judge rules eligibility rules are unconstitutional and prevent a continuation of making a living.
Let’s assume AK is not an NFL level QB, why shouldn’t we just pay him and he can stay here until he quits or someone beats him out?
You know, “it’s the Wild West” after all !

This does appear to be how things are going. Then the NCAA becomes a minor league of sorts instead of just a feeder league. Then of course you have kids quitting mid-season because the Rams need an OT or something...and others rejoining after their NFL stint fizzles out. But there would be less room for actual student age kids, so that might be self-defeating because no one is developing younger players anymore. Or maybe those players go FCS? So many unintended consequences to ponder.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

That addresses a different question than what @zappaa asked.

The answer to zap's question is what I said in my earlier post (and what @NickRU714 said just above). The schools have no choice but to offer scholarships and other perks if they want to attract talented players (and coaches).

I really can't understand why anybody has a problem with it. It's nothing more than simple supply and demand. A perfect expression of capitalism and a free market system. It's the American dream.

Nah - sadly that’s probably not true. Most of the one and done level kids are not incentivized by the scholarship at all. What I said is likely the more accurate assessment - the elite players are willing to comply with the requirement to attend school but they certainly do not view it as a privilege. It’s an obligation, and they are willing participants so long as it’s free. It’s the schools and the NCAA that need to be able to call them student athletes for a variety of reasons…