Frank Isola (sportswriter for the Atlantic covering the Knicks and the NBA) predicts Cooper Flagg to UConn

[ScarletR30]

Greene Rice FIG is right from an analytical standpoint, in a vacuum, but nobody else is looking at it like that.

If people think Dylan Harper is going to be more valuable year 1 than Cliff would be in year 5, what is an example of a Freshman guard who was as valuable as you think Dylan will be for a Big Ten or other P5 team who went on to be one and done?

For example, Jett Howard was the 11th pick in this past draft
was he as valuable as Cliff will be in his 5th year? Or will Harper be a lot more valuable than the 11th pick?

Jett Howard was the 47th ranked recruit in his class. The difference between the top 5 and even 15-20 is astronomical.

For fun here is the total list of players ranked top 5 in the country to commit to a B1G school.

Romeo Langford - ALL B1G 2nd team, avg 16.5 ppg, played through injury in thumb for majorty of season + archie miller
Jared Sullinger - AP All American 1st team, 17/10 as a freshman, led team to B1G championship game and won MVP
BJ Mullens - Came off bench avg 8/4 in 20 mins. BIG all freshman and BIG 6th man of the year
Eric Gordon - 1st team ALL B1G, avg 21ppg as a freshman
Greg Oden - 1st team All B1G, DPOY in B1G, led team to national championship game, played 1/2 year with broken hand

Fact is, the Big ten does not see the level of talent Ace and Dylan are capable of. There is always the option for a bust but as you can see above all the above experienced varying levels of success. Langford and Mullens were the most disappointing but some were otherwordly.

To win in college basketball you need skill. Top 5 five star recruits fit that more so than 5th year seniors.

 

[needmorecowbell]

If there were a shaking my head emoji, I'd pick that instead.

One and done Harper doesn't change the trajectory of the program, Ace is committed, Gavin is on campus, Pike is getting big-time recruits. Harper adds to that, he doesn't change it. Plus, Harper isn't committed or signed, so it's all a little silly. We have a great class either way, and I hope he comes.

"everything every coach has said about RU changes immediately" - that struck me as funny, I don't even know what it means but it's funny "wait until Harper gets here, you'll stop saying all that stuff"??? I have no idea what they were saying, it's funny.

My quote was about Rutgers getting 1-2 lottery picks. One major negative recruiting hit Rutgers gets is they can’t produce draft picks, especially lottery picks. It’s ridiculous but it’s used a lot. Adding Ace and Dylan changes that because those guys are basically locks. You clearly misunderstood what I was taking about.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Jett Howard was the 47th ranked recruit in his class. The difference between the top 5 and even 15-20 is astronomical.

For fun here is the total list of players ranked top 5 in the country to commit to a B1G school.

Romeo Langford - ALL B1G 2nd team, avg 16.5 ppg, played through injury in thumb for majorty of season + archie miller
Jared Sullinger - AP All American 1st team, 17/10 as a freshman, led team to B1G championship game and won MVP
BJ Mullens - Came off bench avg 8/4 in 20 mins. BIG all freshman and BIG 6th man of the year
Eric Gordon - 1st team ALL B1G, avg 21ppg as a freshman
Greg Oden - 1st team All B1G, DPOY in B1G, led team to national championship game, played 1/2 year with broken hand

Fact is, the Big ten does not see the level of talent Ace and Dylan are capable of. There is always the option for a bust but as you can see above all the above experienced varying levels of success. Langford and Mullens were the most disappointing but some were otherwordly.

To win in college basketball you need skill. Top 5 five star recruits fit that more so than 5th year seniors.

I was looking more for comps to Harper not just top 5 - who was like Harper that you'd take, FR year, over Cliff in year 5, good points though

Gordon - 21ppg on just over 13FGA - winner-winner chicken dinner for the comp to Harper that makes you take him over Cliff!

I don't thnk there is one secret sauce and you could get lucky on a mature 1AD or a 4-5th year who breaks out.
Talent AND maturity are definitely part of it.
How many one and dones in the final 4 last year? Elite 8?

 

[MiloTalon13]

you act like a child. Now it makes sense…

Milo the clown

View embedded media

Lol Zero curiosity

 

[Jerseylegends]

I was looking more for comps to Harper not just top 5 - who was like Harper that you'd take, FR year, over Cliff in year 5, good points though

Gordon - 21ppg on just over 13FGA - winner-winner chicken dinner for the comp to Harper that makes you take him over Cliff!

I don't thnk there is one secret sauce and you could get lucky on a mature 1AD or a 4-5th year who breaks out.
Talent AND maturity are definitely part of it.
How many one and dones in the final 4 last year? Elite 8?

Wanted to say this but the transfer portal is the biggest change in terms what you're referring to. Watching teams develop 4 year players and winning championships. San Diego State, Florida Atlantic and Miami were in the final 4 lol... Rutgers is doing nice job of mixing it up if you ask me. Guys like jamichael Davis, dortch and the kid from Michigan aren't 1 and does. Gavin might be idk but you have to be able to adapt with times man.

 

[Jerseylegends]

If there were a shaking my head emoji, I'd pick that instead.

One and done Harper doesn't change the trajectory of the program, Ace is committed, Gavin is on campus, Pike is getting big-time recruits. Harper adds to that, he doesn't change it. Plus, Harper isn't committed or signed, so it's all a little silly. We have a great class either way, and I hope he comes.

"everything every coach has said about RU changes immediately" - that struck me as funny, I don't even know what it means but it's funny "wait until Harper gets here, you'll stop saying all that stuff"??? I have no idea what they were saying, it's funny.

wow this whole time I thought you were laughing at my posts because you agreed with them so much. So you're really just shaking your head? Smh disappointed lol

 

[MiloTalon13]

wow this whole time I thought you were laughing at my posts because you agreed with them so much. So you're really just shaking your head? Smh disappointed lol

I liked your last one about changing with the times

 

[Rhuarc]

FIG is a longtime poster and has been going to games forever. He admittedly takes a contrarian view of the program due to his beliefs or to stimulate discussion. Anybody who posts on the hoops board knows he's a legit fan. All views are welcome here.

 

[hinson32]

So of course if he chooses UConn everyone here is going to go nuts that Duke will be going harder after Dylan and we are going to lose him

No we won't.

 

[FinalFourOrBust]

Agree with that portion

True no one is as dumb as that real estate agent

 

[FinalFourOrBust]

Greene Rice FIG is right from an analytical standpoint, in a vacuum, but nobody else is looking at it like that.

If people think Dylan Harper is going to be more valuable year 1 than Cliff would be in year 5, what is an example of a Freshman guard who was as valuable as you think Dylan will be for a Big Ten or other P5 team who went on to be one and done?

For example, Jett Howard was the 11th pick in this past draft
was he as valuable as Cliff will be in his 5th year? Or will Harper be a lot more valuable than the 11th pick?

Jett Howard was ranked in the 40s coming out of hs and although he did go 11th it was considered a shock as he was supposed to to go in the 20s. He wasn’t on the same level of prospect as Harper and especially ace.

 

[FinalFourOrBust]

The perception of the program certainly changes to a degree on the day when he commits. The follow through is the unknown.

I know Harper is in a different tier than Mike Rosario.

Mike Rosario was thought to change things at RU on the court and recruiting.

Lol Rosario came in as the savior for a last place program. Harper won’t even be the best player in his class for a team that will already be competitive in the big ten without him. I find it hard to believe people cant see the difference in situations. And oh yea Rosario wasn’t half the player Harper or ace are so there’s that too.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Jett Howard was ranked in the 40s coming out of hs and although he did go 11th it was considered a shock as he was supposed to to go in the 20s. He wasn’t on the same level of prospect as Harper and especially ace.

This is a strange line of reasoning, you're taking Harper's projections OVER something that actually happened to Jett Howard.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Sir, respectfully, you are an absolute moron

I know one thing. After looking at your limited participation (profile) and all your posts in this thread ..you may know more than me about basketball (maybe) but you have a lot to learn about being a decent human being. I have my guesses about your age etc, but I won't go there. I'll just judge your on your posted content. You're embarrassing yourself (MHO) talking sports on this site that way. We need way less of your type here (and I'm not the Forum Police. Just a LOOOOOONG time participant).

I'm an admitted old fart. You're the reason I could care less if we get one and dones here.

 

[SoCal_Knight]

Ace and Harper are different than Cliff in his 5th year in that I think Ace and Harper can be closers - meaning that if you need a bucket in the last 2 minutes of a game you can feed them the ball and rely on them to take their defender 1 on 1 and beat them. To me, that was our biggest weakness last year was that Paul, Cam, Caleb and Cliff could not close out games. They're great players with different strengths but none of them could close out games like Ron, Geo or even Jacob Y. That's the reason why we resorted to using Derek S late in games as a closer because Pike didn't really trust any of his senior leadership to close out games. I'm hoping Cliff has developed enough of an arsenal this summer so that he feels comfortable closing out games but realistically think its more likely to be Noah F, Aundre or GG getting the rock.

 

[NickRU714]

Hasn't UConn basically struck out with every major recruit they were after?
Coming off a national championship, seems a little weird.

Even Tyler Betsey from CT picked Cincy over them.

 

[RU82]

I am a 20+ year season ticketholder that barely ever miss a game. I am very appreciative of what we have and what it took to build our program to put us in this position.

I also understand why we are where we are and how this program was built. Defense, chemistry, outworking opponent, and players respecting coaching staff. Shot blocking 5 who is a plus rebounder has been a staple for 6 years now.

It is not going to be like changing your fantasy football lineup moving Dylan Harper in to your flex position and instantly adding 8 points to your expected point total for the week.

I hope that new one and done guys come in and buy in immediately. This where I have serious doubts.

Watching this team up close and practically every minute I respect what each player has done to build this program. Primarily it is effort. talent hasn't been high up on the list.

People over value highly ranked freshman.

Years ago Tommy Amaker brought the number one recruiting class in the country to SHU. Eddie Griffin, Andre Barrett, and Marcus Toney-El were the headliners. They were joining a nucleus of players that had made a solid tournament run the year before. Guys like Darius Lane and Ty Shine were ready to go. The chemistry just never developed. They came in as a top-3 ranked team pre-season. They ended up not even making the NCAA tournament.

Duke had a highly regarded freshman class that couldn’t deliver also. Missed the tourney during Covid.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I will say the hit rate is a ton higher with where Ace and Dylan are. Last year's Dylan did bust on a college level.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I will say the hit rate is a ton higher with where Ace and Dylan are. Last year's Dylan did bust on a college level.

Who was that? The top two guys per rivals, Nick Smith Jr and Dariq Whitehead were both hurt last year.

 

[Joey Bacala]

Sir, respectfully, you are an absolute moron

Yes, indeed this is moronic. However, it's also a moot point because in a recent interview, Cliff said he doesn't care who comes next year, this is his last year, period.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don’t get it. Can’t we all just agree that the historically best teams have a combination of both?

UK 2009-10 stands tall in this point. I don’t care if they lost a fluke game in the elite 8. That was a 2 loss team. Frosh studs like Wall and veterans like Patrick Patterson.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I thought this was pretty funny:

 

[RUInsanity]

I don’t get it. Can’t we all just agree that the historically best teams have a combination of both?

UK 2009-10 stands tall in this point. I don’t care if they lost a fluke game in the elite 8. That was a 2 loss team. Frosh studs like Wall and veterans like Patrick Patterson.

Of course. Back in the real world Cliff has stated he's not coming back and RU's roster (with Ace/Dylan) would be a combination of Frosh and Veterans - as well as selective experienced portal players. There appears to be a contingent on this board who would be perpetually happy with RU bringing only 3* lower ranked players who stay for 4+ years because the seemingly feel that there is a greater chance that these types of players will contribute more over time and buy-in better to Pike's system and philosophies vs. a one and done. The reality is that at least half of these level players end up being limited contributors and transfer after 1-2 years anyway - only to be replaced by another recruit or transfer.

Some are also pointing out examples of limited contributions of high-level freshmen and when it did not work out. I'll offer the opposite.....for instance what if Ace turns out to be a JD or Melo level player?

Bottom line - I'll put trust that Pike will continue to build an appropriate roster with or without the highly ranked young guns.