Game 4: Coppin State Thoughts

[bac2therac]

I have said this before..I really do not like this scheduling. RU's first 5 opponents are the younger sisters of the sisters of the poor. I get that the idea is to bring some of the younger players along and give them some confidence...certainly we have seen that...Thiam, Eugene especially today, Doucore and Baker the last two games. There are some big positives from these four. Baker really has increased his poise game by game. Eugene today with 19 points on 7-11 shooting really is something where you can say he can be an X factor in some tight games...so while I get why you want to schedule easy. I also see some bad habits developing

The opponents are so bad that RU seems to feel it can just turn on the jets anytime they want...and today they did. midway through the 2nd half simply shredding Coppin State on both ends of the court. RU has now kept its opponents under 40 points 3 out of its 4 games. Obviously this team is playing some very tough D and its certainly the teams trademark. However I somewhat disappointed about the middling play and intensity of Freeman and Sanders who should be the leaders yet their inconsistency in bringing at all times during the game to me is a concern. Sanders obviously not bringing it a practice and getting benched as starter is a worry. Sanders had another rough shooting night 5-14 against a poor team. And as much you can say he will bring it against better competition, you do not know that percentage will get better. Overall the whole team can not shoot straight. 2-17 from 3 is putrid. 14-28 from the free throw line is putrid. Overall through the first 4 games, RU is just 13-56 from 3, which is under 25% and shooting an ugly 60% from the ft line. I am not so sure this team needs to keep shooting more 3s. I feel shot selection is ugly in the first halves of these games and RU keeps shooting themselves in the foot with bricks and missed bunnies. Shooting this poorly against wretched opponents does not give you confidence that all of a sudden they can drain shots against league opponents. Most schools have multiple 3 point threats, not sure RU has one.

Now we won by 25 and again another superlative defensive effort..this is true...but what happens when the opponents become tougher. Unless something changes soon it appears to me that this team is going to only be able to scrap out wins by full effort on D and full effort on the court, the shooting is so bad its going to be hard to score over 70 points in league play. Setting up for such a small window. I want to stress I do not want to come across as negative. There are some big positives to take through these 4 games and individually the younger players are improving, but teamwise not sure its helping to not be tested by real opponents.

So onto Bryant another expected easy win I do not think ECU is all that good but I expect a closer than expected game there. Not til FSU does RU get a test so we will know then, I fear something similar to the Miami game last year but we can hope we have a team that gets a great shooting night and everyone is on the same page.

 

[RUsojo]

I love the scheduling. Cannot overstate how much the scheduling last year and this year benefitted the program. GREAT JOB by Hobbs and Pike to get this done.

You are making some assumptions with no basis re "RU seems to feel it can turn on the jets at anytime". No, we are just not a team talented enough to always have the jets on.

 

[bac2therac]

edit...after today 3 point shooting is 15-73...ouch

 

[RUTrack94]

Need to beat the teams expected and get over .500 for the year. When the team is on the bubble for NCAA then start thinking about tougher teams.

 

[bac2therac]

I love the scheduling. Cannot overstate how much the scheduling last year and this year benefitted the program. GREAT JOB by Hobbs and Pike to get this done.

You are making some assumptions with no basis re "RU seems to feel it can turn on the jets at anytime". No, we are just not a team talented enough to always have the jets on.

in this game I felt that RU went on a few runs then took off for a couple of minutes. No I do not think Coppin would just lay down but RU kept letting them hang around...until 43-34 when yes they turned the jets on and outscored them 21-5...there was a clear elevation of play but why why why did it take so long, you could see the team playing harder in an effort to close it out. Doesnt have to be this way if the team brings its earlier.

 

[RUsojo]

in this game I felt that RU went on a few runs then took off for a couple of minutes. No I do not think Coppin would just lay down but RU kept letting them hang around...until 43-34 when yes they turned the jets on and outscored them 21-5...there was a clear elevation of play but why why why did it take so long, you could see the team playing harder in an effort to close it out. Doesnt have to be this way if the team brings its earlier.

Not trying to argue I just didn't see what you saw. Today we actually had open shots which I hadn't seen as much of before.

Even if that were the case, I still wouldn't be reomotely worried, because seasons have ebbs and flows. I wouldn't blame these guys for getting lulled into boredom in practice knowing you're going into games you know can sleep through and win. But I don't see lack of effort in the game.

Can't forget the real life aspects of playing ball.

 

[RUChoppin]

I know it's been against easy competition - but it looks as though we have more guys who can step up this year if Sanders/Freeman have a bad night. Williams, Baker, Omoruyi, and Thiam have all shown themselves capable of getting hot... it's just consistency that isn't there yet.

As consistency gets better, I think we could have points where 3-4 guys could be on the floor at the same time who are threats to score - which would be huge, and not something we've seen here in a while.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Huge leap forward for Eugene today. He was terrific. The kid plays like a Mike Williams — huge heart, intensity and hustle. It’s too bad neither Corey nor Deshawn as team captains bring the same the intensity, but both played ok today. Baker has a huge ceiling and should be a real plus factor if his 3 point shot starts falling. I love his pull up jumper in the lane. I still don’t know why Souf was brought in, especially as a Junior. He got stripped from behind once again today and never looks better than the guards of the very weak teams we are playing.

 

[goru7]

I might be wrong but what I think BAC is trying to say is that despite the large winning spreads , we have not really played really well. This is true. I missed the opener but have been at center court for the last 3, and clearly we are not yet a cohesive unit playing with good team chemistry. I think we played about 4 at most 5 minutes of very good basketball on both ends today against Coppin State from the 10 minute mark to the 5 minute mark of the second half. The rest of the game was plenty of missed open shots, missed foul shots , lazy defense. The same could be said until the second half of the Cleveland State game and clearly the chemistry was missing for the entire Central Connecticut State game. The good news is that we won by 25, 31 and 4.
I think playing some of these weaker teams has allowed Geo and Duke to get acclimated and they are getting there. But the best revelation and improvement has to be Eugene . He can finish at the rim with either hand , developed a nice aggressive drive to the hoop , is relentless on the boards, and it is clear he will be a large part of any success we have in conference this year. That is tremendous development from a frosh to a Soph and Coach and his staff deserves all the credit.
These games also has allowed Issa to get comfortable not just shooting 3's , but putting the ball on the floor, rebounding at both ends and playing really good defense.
Yes , Corey and Deshawn have to step up their games , especially step up their shooting , if we are going anywhere this year, but we are getting a few more scoring options and now also have Mike , Geo, Issa and Eugene to go along with them that will help. Pike will figure it out to get the chemistry just right.
The Florida State , challenge game , the first road game and first Big 10 road game against Minnesota and then the Michigan State game will be quite a stretch that will immediately involve a steep step up in competition that I am hopeful will raise our level of play as well

 

[zebnatto]

The initial portion of our schedule has been too weak. Maybe it's just the luck of the draw that we're playing the weak teams in weak conferences as opposed to middle of the pack teams from those conferences. Again, maybe it's not something you can plan. Wish ECU was looking a little better than they are.

FSU and Minny look like solid tests.

 

[higgins3]

Bac, I hate the scheduling as well. I do recognize it is absolutely mandatory to do though as a rebuilding program.

These games leave so much to be desired. I look forward to Rutgers opponents going forward.

I will say, these games have shown that the tide is turning on the banks. 2 years ago, these were not checked in wins. You never knew.

 

[jonS]

I agree with Bac about the level of competition but that's why the tough win against St John's was so important. That was an excellent game against a really tough St John's team with very talented guards and Rutgers won. So at least they've experienced a formidable foe, albeit in an exhibition game that had all the hallmarks of a regular season game.

 

[knights1212]

Don't forget Michigan State as well. Things will be a lot tougher real soon.

 

[jonS]

Eugene and Thiam have really impressed me with how much they've improved. And Baker is a real steal. Steady, consistent and poised. Hard to be believe he's only a freshman.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

careful of what you wish for. If we shoot the basketball like that we aren't beating anyone atop 100 schools.

99% of what we did today was great, the part where you flick your wrist we did poorly at.

 

[RutgersFbFan]

i get the point that we may not learn a whole lot about our team against these opponents, but that's why we scrimmaged better teams (and won), such as St. Johns, Monmouth and Yale. In a 2nd year of a rebuild, the optics of going over .500 is HUGE in recruiting.

 

[Mr Magoo]

I have said this before..I really do not like this scheduling. RU's first 5 opponents are the younger sisters of the sisters of the poor. I get that the idea is to bring some of the younger players along and give them some confidence...certainly we have seen that...Thiam, Eugene especially today, Doucore and Baker the last two games. There are some big positives from these four. Baker really has increased his poise game by game. Eugene today with 19 points on 7-11 shooting really is something where you can say he can be an X factor in some tight games...so while I get why you want to schedule easy. I also see some bad habits developing

The opponents are so bad that RU seems to feel it can just turn on the jets anytime they want...and today they did. midway through the 2nd half simply shredding Coppin State on both ends of the court. RU has now kept its opponents under 40 points 3 out of its 4 games. Obviously this team is playing some very tough D and its certainly the teams trademark. However I somewhat disappointed about the middling play and intensity of Freeman and Sanders who should be the leaders yet their inconsistency in bringing at all times during the game to me is a concern. Sanders obviously not bringing it a practice and getting benched as starter is a worry. Sanders had another rough shooting night 5-14 against a poor team. And as much you can say he will bring it against better competition, you do not know that percentage will get better. Overall the whole team can not shoot straight. 2-17 from 3 is putrid. 14-28 from the free throw line is putrid. Overall through the first 4 games, RU is just 13-56 from 3, which is under 25% and shooting an ugly 60% from the ft line. I am not so sure this team needs to keep shooting more 3s. I feel shot selection is ugly in the first halves of these games and RU keeps shooting themselves in the foot with bricks and missed bunnies. Shooting this poorly against wretched opponents does not give you confidence that all of a sudden they can drain shots against league opponents. Most schools have multiple 3 point threats, not sure RU has one.

Now we won by 25 and again another superlative defensive effort..this is true...but what happens when the opponents become tougher. Unless something changes soon it appears to me that this team is going to only be able to scrap out wins by full effort on D and full effort on the court, the shooting is so bad its going to be hard to score over 70 points in league play. Setting up for such a small window. I want to stress I do not want to come across as negative. There are some big positives to take through these 4 games and individually the younger players are improving, but teamwise not sure its helping to not be tested by real opponents.

So onto Bryant another expected easy win I do not think ECU is all that good but I expect a closer than expected game there. Not til FSU does RU get a test so we will know then, I fear something similar to the Miami game last year but we can hope we have a team that gets a great shooting night and everyone is on the same page.

Bac nailed it.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I think we have to be careful in our expectations for Eugene. In 4 games, he's had a physical advantage against they guys he's matched up against. In B1G play, he'll be seeing guys that can match his size, power, and athleticism. And for all the positives we're seeing, his offensive toolkit is still pretty raw. We 100% need his motor (his best asset right now), but not sure we can count on him for 10 a night once B1G play starts.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think Bac's point could hold some merit after Central CT when we didn't bring it from the effort category.

Players are getting thru screens, closing out on shooters, dominating the defensive glass and winning more than 50% of 50/50 balls. I'd hate to see a program still in early building mode not get rewarded EARLY for doing these things.

Unfortunately my magic 8 ball in conference play sees a bunch of losses where we play TOP 50 level defense and lose because we can't shoot.

 

[RURM85]

I also hate the scheduling. It provides false feedback, less learning lessons and little to no simulations for the important in-conference schedule. I'm not saying start scheduling the Dukes of the world, however, there's a number of regional mid-majors that always play strong fundamental basketball (i.e. Princeton, Temple, GW, etc.). Winning would mean real confidence building and losing means valuable lessons. Also, it would have been nice to play a few games in rough road environments, for preparation leading to the in-conference schedule.

East Carolina lost to Cent. Conn. State by double digits on Friday night.

 

[MadRU]

As NJ Hawk pointed out in another thread, we did have a few good exhibition games. With the St. John's game being played at a higher level. So at least the players have been tested some.

Hopefully that will help when we go against FSU, SHU and even Stony Brook who didn't look to bad from what I saw.

 

[RUsojo]

I also hate the scheduling. It provides false feedback, less learning lessons and little to no simulations for the important in-conference schedule. I'm not saying start scheduling the Dukes of the world, however, there's a number of regional mid-majors that always play strong fundamental basketball (i.e. Princeton, Temple, GW, etc.). Winning would mean real confidence building and losing means valuable lessons. Also, it would have been nice to play a few games in rough road environments, for preparation leading to the in-conference schedule.

East Carolina lost to Cent. Conn. State by double digits on Friday night.

It's not "false feedback" because we know it doesn't tell us anything about how we will fare against the conference schedule. Our OOC is purely a perception booster. Look how much better or perception is going into this season because of it. It's not debatable.

Great job by Pike to schedule the exhibition against St. John's as an additional litmus test.

We returned a lot of contirbutors, and our frosh played St. John's, so contrary to what some of you are stating, the team will not be caught off guard by playing tougher defenses.

It only sucks as a season ticket holder.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This year we get 12 high quality opponents at the RAC. Us season ticket holders will be OK.

 

[RURM85]

It's not "false feedback" because we know it doesn't tell us anything about how we will fare against the conference schedule. Our OOC is purely a perception booster. Look how much better or perception is going into this season because of it. It's not debatable.

Great job by Pike to schedule the exhibition against St. John's as an additional litmus test.

We returned a lot of contirbutors, and our frosh played St. John's, so contrary to what some of you are stating, the team will not be caught off guard by playing tougher defenses.

It only sucks as a season ticket holder.

Feedback on areas of strengths and weaknesses, not how we fare in conference. Going up against much lesser competition and athletes, doesn't provide accurate measurables to build from. Just because Issa is pulling down rebounds and scoring inside against inferior and shorter athletes, doesn't mean this will work when he gets to equivalent or greater skills.

Perception booster for who? Fans? Everybody who watches the sport knows the schedule is a joke. Does that matter at all? I get why the schedule was done this way last year. 2 years in a row, IMO was not the right move. Better to focus on preparing to beat B1G teams, even if that means a .500 or little better record during OOC.

 

[TobyTyler1]

Second paragraph from rurm85 is spot on. Can we get just ONE early game for real measuring stick?

 

[BillyC80]

I remember years when Georgetown played the Sisters of the Poor throughout their OOC and still managed to play well enough in the BE to make the big dance.

 

[RUsojo]

Second paragraph from rurm85 is spot on. Can we get just ONE early game for real measuring stick?

We're playing Florida St next week so you are getting what you are asking for. It's only been 10 days since the season started lol

 

[goru7]

Second paragraph from rurm85 is spot on. Can we get just ONE early game for real measuring stick?

You want 1 early game as a measuring stick. How about Florida State, at Minnesota, Michigan State. That is 3 for you. That is game 7,8, and 9 of the year . Big 10 having to play 2 early games that have not been done before because of the tourney in NYC , more than offsets the early cupcake schedule. Coach knows the tough competitionis coming down the line. Seton Hall is 11 days later. The start up again of the conference schedule is at Purdue, Wisconsin, at Michigan State. That is a brutal schedule .
These early games lets Coach work on his rotations, get guys one year in his system like Issa and Eugene confidence that will hopefully carry over to later in conference play, and I think you are seeing the development of Eugene even quicker than Issa to where they are clearly going to be key players if we are to have success. . Coach can integrate his freshman , Geo and Duke, along with experienced upperclassmen, Mike, Deshawn, and Corey to get the chemistry and fit. It has not happened yet but playing these games will provide the experience to make it look better in conference play.
As season ticket holder, I do not love it but I understand why is is being done.

 

[TobyTyler1]

Obviously I am saying would like ONE real game before game #7 for real evaluation and player experience. Instead we are raving about Issa Thiam's rebounding when he's holding the ball higher then anybody can reach and puts it back up without jumping like an oversized kid in a middle school game. Yeah look at Issa go inside and bang!! He's a new player!!

 

[RUChoppin]

Obviously I am saying would like ONE real game before game #7 for real evaluation and player experience. Instead we are raving about Issa Thiam's rebounding when he's holding the ball higher then anybody can reach and puts it back up without jumping like an oversized kid in a middle school game. Yeah look at Issa go inside and bang!! He's a new player!!

Well, he wasn't able to do that against the early munchkins last year, so it's still a sign of progress. He has 28 rebounds through 4 games (105 min).... last year, it took him 20 games to reach that total (305 min). It's good to see him have more of an instinct to assert himself. At 6-10, he's still going to be taller than most players on the floor - and certainly anyone who's tasked to guard him on the wing.

 

[goru7]

Obviously I am saying would like ONE real game before game #7 for real evaluation and player experience. Instead we are raving about Issa Thiam's rebounding when he's holding the ball higher then anybody can reach and puts it back up without jumping like an oversized kid in a middle school game. Yeah look at Issa go inside and bang!! He's a new player!!

Chopin answered your Issa point clearly. How about Eugene? Did you think Eugene would have improved this much? Do you think he is going to play a lot and help us a lot this year? I do and I did not know that pre season. Every game his confidence is growing and these easy games has made that possible.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Obviously I am saying would like ONE real game before game #7 for real evaluation and player experience. Instead we are raving about Issa Thiam's rebounding when he's holding the ball higher then anybody can reach and puts it back up without jumping like an oversized kid in a middle school game. Yeah look at Issa go inside and bang!! He's a new player!!

That was entertaining though, you had to admit.
:smiley:

 

[vascosg]

Pike needs these games to teach his players what he wants in a setting where they can be successful. Hopefully, when the pressure gets ratcheted up later, they will know what they have to do without thinking about it as much.

 

[TobyTyler1]

Well, he wasn't able to do that against the early munchkins last year, so it's still a sign of progress. He has 28 rebounds through 4 games (105 min).... last year, it took him 20 games to reach that total (305 min). It's good to see him have more of an instinct to assert himself. At 6-10, he's still going to be taller than most players on the floor - and certainly anyone who's tasked to guard him on the wing.

Agree! He needs a chip on that shoulder when he plays.

 

[TobyTyler1]

Chopin answered your Issa point clearly. How about Eugene? Did you think Eugene would have improved this much? Do you think he is going to play a lot and help us a lot this year? I do and I did not know that pre season. Every game his confidence is growing and these easy games has made that possible.

Eugene looks confident. But obviously the inside scoring we have seen will be little more challenging in couple weeks. He is a 6'6" tweener so won't be easy. I'll take Draymond Green lite.

 

[RUChoppin]

Eugene looks confident. But obviously the inside scoring we have seen will be little more challenging in couple weeks. He is a 6'6" tweener so won't be easy. I'll take Draymond Green lite.

Well, he's listed at 6-7, 234... which is a touch small, but really not a bad size at PF. Definitely need to have more of a motor and work to get better positioning, but I hardly think it'll be disqualifying.

As you said, Draymond Green is 6-7, 230. Dennis Rodman was also 6-7, 220.

 

[RUBigFrank]

This is the type of scheduling Syracuse did prior to the Big East formation - it was a nice stepping stone.

 

[bowlgoal]

I just don’t think we are ready for a tougher schedule coupled with our big 10 schedule. I want it and you want it but when you look back at the end of the season and you only have 5-6 conference wins now and you don’t dominate the other part of the schedule; it could make recruiting that much more difficult and we need it to continue to surge.

We need a roster full of guys who can all play at this level and we haven’t had that in 25 years. Sure, there will be a few that are a little better and some who don’t pan out, but just imagine a pretty full roster of guys like Geo, Doucoure, Kiss and Sanders. That’s what coming here in the next two to three seasons and then we can play in tournaments in Florida, Puerto Rico, Hawaii and all the other fun things that good teams do.

You just need the talent and it’s on the way. We are still not there but if you watch every game, you see it happening before you eyes. Just don’t panic if it takes a few years because it will. Enjoy the build( all you can say. Our shooting really needs to improve and the FT.s are ridiculous at this point. I know they practice them a lot so maybe a psychologist is in order?

 

[TobyTyler1]

Penn State with a real game tonight we will wait

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]