GAME 5 KENNESAW STATE: From miles away

[seansherm]

For years and years.....we don't play any Holiday event tournaments.....we don't schedule road games.....we don't recruit well enough and we don't have shooters.....

Well, fans got what they asked for and no one wants to wait for results. We played about 15 minutes of decent basketball and rally from down 20.

I don't know why these recaps have gotten so hideous....and the whining is like a bunch of babies. You want an OOC tournament, you got it....

Here is the season summary that I mentioned 6 months ago.....you simply cannot listen to folks parroting overrated and non-impact Ivy League players and have people gassed up about the fact that they can knock down 3s......sure, so does Iowa and other shooting teams, but there are 35 games in a season and 20 of them against legitimate speed and defense, will take shooters away....what else do shooters do, when they aren't left open...

Do they rebound??? Nope

Do they run the floor for layups.....Nope....

Do they take charges....Nope

Do they rebound in traffic or box out....Nope.

19 minutes of play, 1 rebound from Martini against Kennesaw....and averaging 4 Boards a game against 5 mid majors...

Ogbole got a couple of dunks and 2 rebounds in his 19 minutes of play.....

This is about effort skill and athletic ability to defend and Ogbole or Martini are not quick or explosive paint defenders, they are not good rebounders and they don't move their feet to stay in front of any reasonable front court starter, mid major or not.

38 minutes and 2 rebounds....hmmm.....that's common sense math....

BUT there are solutions available on the roster with other freshman Dylan Grant, who will compete for rebounds, is athletic enough to defend and can pass the ball.....Will we give up Martini possibly hitting a corner 3?? Sure, but it just feels like with every shot taken by Martini, if it doesn't go in, he's not going to stop his man from scoring or rebounding.

The obsession with Lathan Sommerville on a bogus stat of plus minus is baffling.....maybe if he starts the game, his plus minus is positive vs not. He has upside and for all the wrong commentary about lack of rebounding, he had THREE rebounds in 18 minutes, which is the total of Martini and Ogbole combined.....but fans get things fixed in their heads on plus minus, with nothing to support rebounding in regards to plus minus....

This is going to be a process of coaching decisions and fan evaluations aren't being blinded by false narratives.....you want rebounds, pull starters who don't rebound....problem SOLVED

Is it more likely that playing Dylan Grant playing 20 minutes, results in ONE rebound or more than 1........?? I'll take more than one Alex for $1000......!!

This is a common sense discussion....Teams like Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama have seen players more talented than what we currently start up front.....there is nothing special an opponent has to do to guard Martini at the PF.....he provides no advantage over any B1G or Power 5 PF anywhere in CBB

Don't overthink it folks....it's not complicated. Play the 4 or all 5 freshman at least 20 minutes a night and see what happens....There is NO path for success unless Martini somehow goes from under 4 rebounds per game to 7 to 8....not going to happen folks...

Dylan Harper at one guard
JWill at other guard
Ace Bailey at SF
Dylan Grant at PF
Lathan Sommerville at C....

1st guard off bench is Derkack for defense for JWill....

PJ Hayes comes in for Grant and pushes Ace to the PF spot....

Acuff gets healthy and is the 7th man off the bench to provide scoring on the ball or wing with Dylan at PG or someone else at PG.....mix in JMike for 8 to 12 minutes a game.

Martini only has one available role....as Sommerville back up center.....and until he starts hustling to rebound and defend....Sommerville and Martini have the same skill set....match up against an opposing 5 and pull that player away from the rim. He CANNOT be on the floor at the same time with Ogbole to start 4 minutes of each half.

Can RU outscore or out talent Notre Dame and stay with Alabama?? Sure they can, it's still a game we lost when scoring 77 points and playing no defense for 20+ minutes and getting outrebounded by 20.

So....what happens if we don't get outrebounded by 20 and it's just perhaps 6 to 8....that is a win most nights.

Onto Notre Dame, but thinking a coaching staff is going to make poor FT shooters into good ones, is the same as asking poor rebounding and poor defenders to become plus defenders or rebounders.....

Your obsession w Sommerville is fascinating. Pre season it was because he could spread the floor (he doesn't), pass the ball (he doesnt), ect. Now it's because he had three rebounds today, despite the fact that Ogbole, as bad as he is, is actually a better rebounder than Sommerville. Lathan only has more because he plays over twice the minutes. EO averages more per 40, more per 100 possessions, more everything.
Saying Grant, who we haven't seen play is an answer is just wishful thinking.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We have played to the level and below 2 awful teams with 2 NBA guys. With 2 NBA guys on the court it shouldnt matter (within reason) who the other 3 guys are.

We need our Mag or Eugene (before it got to his head). If it is Jwill Jmike and Grant it is time.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Your obsession w Sommerville is fascinating. Pre season it was because he could spread the floor (he doesn't), pass the ball (he doesnt), ect. Now it's because he had three rebounds today, despite the fact that Ogbole, as bad as he is, is actually a better rebounder than Sommerville. Lathan only has more because he plays over twice the minutes. EO averages more per 40, more per 100 possessions, more everything.
Saying Grant, who we haven't seen play is an answer is just wishful thinking.

Statistically somerville is a much better Dreb. Ogbole a better offreb.

 

[RU84]

For years and years.....we don't play any Holiday event tournaments.....we don't schedule road games.....we don't recruit well enough and we don't have shooters.....

Well, fans got what they asked for and no one wants to wait for results. We played about 15 minutes of decent basketball and rally from down 20.

I don't know why these recaps have gotten so hideous....and the whining is like a bunch of babies. You want an OOC tournament, you got it....

Here is the season summary that I mentioned 6 months ago.....you simply cannot listen to folks parroting overrated and non-impact Ivy League players and have people gassed up about the fact that they can knock down 3s......sure, so does Iowa and other shooting teams, but there are 35 games in a season and 20 of them against legitimate speed and defense, will take shooters away....what else do shooters do, when they aren't left open...

Do they rebound??? Nope

Do they run the floor for layups.....Nope....

Do they take charges....Nope

Do they rebound in traffic or box out....Nope.

19 minutes of play, 1 rebound from Martini against Kennesaw....and averaging 4 Boards a game against 5 mid majors...

Ogbole got a couple of dunks and 2 rebounds in his 19 minutes of play.....

This is about effort skill and athletic ability to defend and Ogbole or Martini are not quick or explosive paint defenders, they are not good rebounders and they don't move their feet to stay in front of any reasonable front court starter, mid major or not.

38 minutes and 2 rebounds....hmmm.....that's common sense math....

BUT there are solutions available on the roster with other freshman Dylan Grant, who will compete for rebounds, is athletic enough to defend and can pass the ball.....Will we give up Martini possibly hitting a corner 3?? Sure, but it just feels like with every shot taken by Martini, if it doesn't go in, he's not going to stop his man from scoring or rebounding.

The obsession with Lathan Sommerville on a bogus stat of plus minus is baffling.....maybe if he starts the game, his plus minus is positive vs not. He has upside and for all the wrong commentary about lack of rebounding, he had THREE rebounds in 18 minutes, which is the total of Martini and Ogbole combined.....but fans get things fixed in their heads on plus minus, with nothing to support rebounding in regards to plus minus....

This is going to be a process of coaching decisions and fan evaluations aren't being blinded by false narratives.....you want rebounds, pull starters who don't rebound....problem SOLVED

Is it more likely that playing Dylan Grant playing 20 minutes, results in ONE rebound or more than 1........?? I'll take more than one Alex for $1000......!!

This is a common sense discussion....Teams like Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama have seen players more talented than what we currently start up front.....there is nothing special an opponent has to do to guard Martini at the PF.....he provides no advantage over any B1G or Power 5 PF anywhere in CBB

Don't overthink it folks....it's not complicated. Play the 4 or all 5 freshman at least 20 minutes a night and see what happens....There is NO path for success unless Martini somehow goes from under 4 rebounds per game to 7 to 8....not going to happen folks...

Dylan Harper at one guard
JWill at other guard
Ace Bailey at SF
Dylan Grant at PF
Lathan Sommerville at C....

1st guard off bench is Derkack for defense for JWill....

PJ Hayes comes in for Grant and pushes Ace to the PF spot....

Acuff gets healthy and is the 7th man off the bench to provide scoring on the ball or wing with Dylan at PG or someone else at PG.....mix in JMike for 8 to 12 minutes a game.

Martini only has one available role....as Sommerville back up center.....and until he starts hustling to rebound and defend....Sommerville and Martini have the same skill set....match up against an opposing 5 and pull that player away from the rim. He CANNOT be on the floor at the same time with Ogbole to start 4 minutes of each half.

Can RU outscore or out talent Notre Dame and stay with Alabama?? Sure they can, it's still a game we lost when scoring 77 points and playing no defense for 20+ minutes and getting outrebounded by 20.

So....what happens if we don't get outrebounded by 20 and it's just perhaps 6 to 8....that is a win most nights.

Onto Notre Dame, but thinking a coaching staff is going to make poor FT shooters into good ones, is the same as asking poor rebounding and poor defenders to become plus defenders or rebounders.....

Your take makes sense but so far the coaching staff doesn't look like they're giving Grant minutes. Hopefully that changes.

 

[bac2therac]

We have played to the level and below 2 awful teams with 2 NBA guys. With 2 NBA guys on the court it shouldnt matter (within reason) who the other 3 guys are.

We need our Mag or Eugene (before it got to his head). If it is Jwill Jmike and Grant it is time.

possibly true but i do believe there are levels of medicority vs awful

 

[RUGiddy777]

Let us be clear...this game NEVER should have been scheduled for many reasons. Its pointless to recap because the game really exposed the program right now.

Its also clear this performance could be seen coming miles away. Go read the recaps from the past 3 games. This loss was coming whether it was Kennesaw or Notre Dame.

The lack of team ball or any desire/committment to playing defense was screaming at everyone. Most here were concerned. Others felt its all about outscoring the opponents. Well guess what, our offense isnt so hot either as it struggled mightily in the first half. It wasnt just Ace it was a bunch of them. Sure RU played a decent 2nd half. If they played that 2nd half in the first half, its likely RU is able to emerge with a win perhaps even comfortably. However coming on the court like you are something when you beat 4 sisters of the poor is a surefire recipe to set a loss in play. Team was a deer in headlights as was the coach when the Owls punched them in the mouth. Soft was a word thrown around in the game thread.

Across the board the game was an absolute disaster. There no positives to take from today at least on the court. Whether you had final 4 expectations, Big 10 championship expectations or just expectations to eek into the NCAA tourney, you can put them on ice for now. This team was ranked solely on hype not based on actual performance in the first 4 games. No its not the end of the world. No it doesnt mean RU is headed toward a disappointing season. It just means we need to strip away all the hype and start accepting this team will need to work for what it gets. Not going to win by just showing up on the court with NBA press clippings. Not going to win by not wanting to play defense. Not going to win if you do not have a hunger and I think this team is clearly missing that desire to eat until the last few minutes of the world. You just cannot turn a swtich on and win.

Its going to be up to Pikiell to burn everything down and start making these guys be accountable to themselves and their teammates and to the program. It starts by taking control. Pike has to be accountable to himself and the program. Its obvious his apporach has not really worked. If nothing changes expect more of today. Pike has let the inmates run the asylum. Part of the reason this stupid game was scheduled in the first place. No upside to playing 4 creampuffs at home then throw your team out to a hostile bandbox for its first road game. To make matters worse, Vegas is next. Learning experience and needing this loss. well those are cliches but yeah well it applies here. Ace had a subpar game given his ability. His youth and immaturity showed. Yes the stars showed late and there was a chance at a last shot but yet maybe the most important lesson will be learned from Ace. Cannot hide youth, cannot hide have not been there and it showed in that very last possession. Problem is he is only here for one year so this isnt a case of saying well when Ace is senior he will take and make that game winning shot. It will have come in the next few weeks.

What about the comeback there that fell just short...well yeah its almost better they lost like that than lose by 16. That they could taste the comeback might actually be a positive and then left hanging. Want to give them credit...not me, never should have been in that situation.

The stat lines are brutal.

RU outrebounded 46-27 overall and 14-8 on the offensive boards. Brutal no matter what competiton you are playing against. Speaks to the failure for Pike to go into this season without a servicable center but also speaks to Ace needing to learn alot. I am not sure how this team will be able to compete given their rebounding woes through the first 5 games.

26-66 fg for 39% is pretty poor against an opponent who likes a track meet not known for defense. Obviously Ace at 6-17 fg was way off from the start and thats another reason why I do not like homecoming games scheduled. Yet besides Harper, you had 4 guys going a combined 4-17 fg. Down the stretch it was basically Ace and Dylan doing all the work. The concept of team ball trying to get back into the game wasnt going to work. If RU did win, it was going to be based on the individual talent of Ace and Dylan. Sure most of the time its going to be about them but can anyone feel confident about any other player being able to step up in crunch time. J Will and J Mike have been offensive black holes this season but J Will the bigger issue. If he isnt going to the third scorer, Rutgers is going to have a hard time beating good teams. Must get him healthy and on track. He does bring the only defensive intensity I have seen on the team.

Ogoble with 10 points on 4-5 fg shooting is a highlight for him. Summerville needs so much catching up on defense. Derkack leading rebounder but really shouldnt be driving into trees. PJ Hayes sneaky good game with 8 points and 5 boards. Zak basically nothing except an early 2nd half 3.

Now they head to Vegas to take on a Notre Dame team who got beat by Elon. They are well coached so I expect a dogfight but the great unknown is whether this team takes this loss to heart. Its the other 2 games in Vegas I am worried about the potential for ugliness vs Bama and then possibly Creighton/Sd St and I just do not think physically RU has show toughness to compete there.

Well said. It’s about time these guys got punched in the mouth (figuratively). Time to park the hype train and get to work. It’s been fun, but nothing has been earned yet and now we’re playing real teams that can and do know how to step on a throat.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Rutgers is going to have a hard time in remaining games because more opponents will play zone defense making it more difficult for Bailey and Harper to dribble drive to the basket.What is the purpose of having Hayes on the court when Rutgers half court offense lacks plays for him to get open 3 pointers?Derdack missing 3 foul shots at crunch time tells me a replacement is needed .After watching five games against perceived mediocre competition,this team with two elite freshmen looks unprepared in executing basic fundamentals on offense and defense.

Dercack actually missed 4 FTs, despite coming in shooting 90%. In a close game, that was also a killer!

 

[Saint Puppy]

We have played to the level and below 2 awful teams with 2 NBA guys. With 2 NBA guys on the court it shouldnt matter (within reason) who the other 3 guys are.

We need our Mag or Eugene (before it got to his head). If it is Jwill Jmike and Grant it is time.

I honestly think we have 1 legit NBA guy - from what I'm seeing, I don't see how Ace can be in the NBA other than as a project in the G League. Yes, his size and athleticism are intriguing, but his athleticism is kind of a waste because he really doesn't have a game down low, he doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass or play defense. He shoots perimeter shots over people, and that's pretty much it - and at that, I wouldn't say he's at an elite level. His size and athleticism jump off the page at you - his actual game, not so much.

 

[Rutgers25]

I honestly think we have 1 legit NBA guy - from what I'm seeing, I don't see how Ace can be in the NBA other than as a project in the G League. Yes, his size and athleticism are intriguing, but his athleticism is kind of a waste because he really doesn't have a game down low, he doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass or play defense. He shoots perimeter shots over people, and that's pretty much it - and at that, I wouldn't say he's at an elite level. His size and athleticism jump off the page at you - his actual game, not so much.

I didn’t want to go here but since you opened up the can, I’ll jump in. How is he a top 3 pick? Obviously a gifted shot maker, but I don’t see much else. He can’t get to the rim because he’s too skinny to absorb any contact. Haven’t seen much yet in the open court but it’s possible that part comes alive at some point. Don’t see toughness or a high level of competitiveness. We hear mentions of Kevin Durant but he’s not even close to Durant in college. KD averaged 11 boards a game and 2 blocks. Not to mention his 26pts/game.

If he gets drafted that high it will be on potential which means we’re not remotely close to seeing the best of him if he’s one and done.

 

[RAC93]

For years and years.....we don't play any Holiday event tournaments.....we don't schedule road games.....we don't recruit well enough and we don't have shooters.....

Well, fans got what they asked for and no one wants to wait for results. We played about 15 minutes of decent basketball and rally from down 20.

I don't know why these recaps have gotten so hideous....and the whining is like a bunch of babies. You want an OOC tournament, you got it....

Here is the season summary that I mentioned 6 months ago.....you simply cannot listen to folks parroting overrated and non-impact Ivy League players and have people gassed up about the fact that they can knock down 3s......sure, so does Iowa and other shooting teams, but there are 35 games in a season and 20 of them against legitimate speed and defense, will take shooters away....what else do shooters do, when they aren't left open...

Do they rebound??? Nope

Do they run the floor for layups.....Nope....

Do they take charges....Nope

Do they rebound in traffic or box out....Nope.

19 minutes of play, 1 rebound from Martini against Kennesaw....and averaging 4 Boards a game against 5 mid majors...

Ogbole got a couple of dunks and 2 rebounds in his 19 minutes of play.....

This is about effort skill and athletic ability to defend and Ogbole or Martini are not quick or explosive paint defenders, they are not good rebounders and they don't move their feet to stay in front of any reasonable front court starter, mid major or not.

38 minutes and 2 rebounds....hmmm.....that's common sense math....

BUT there are solutions available on the roster with other freshman Dylan Grant, who will compete for rebounds, is athletic enough to defend and can pass the ball.....Will we give up Martini possibly hitting a corner 3?? Sure, but it just feels like with every shot taken by Martini, if it doesn't go in, he's not going to stop his man from scoring or rebounding.

The obsession with Lathan Sommerville on a bogus stat of plus minus is baffling.....maybe if he starts the game, his plus minus is positive vs not. He has upside and for all the wrong commentary about lack of rebounding, he had THREE rebounds in 18 minutes, which is the total of Martini and Ogbole combined.....but fans get things fixed in their heads on plus minus, with nothing to support rebounding in regards to plus minus....

This is going to be a process of coaching decisions and fan evaluations aren't being blinded by false narratives.....you want rebounds, pull starters who don't rebound....problem SOLVED

Is it more likely that playing Dylan Grant playing 20 minutes, results in ONE rebound or more than 1........?? I'll take more than one Alex for $1000......!!

This is a common sense discussion....Teams like Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama have seen players more talented than what we currently start up front.....there is nothing special an opponent has to do to guard Martini at the PF.....he provides no advantage over any B1G or Power 5 PF anywhere in CBB

Don't overthink it folks....it's not complicated. Play the 4 or all 5 freshman at least 20 minutes a night and see what happens....There is NO path for success unless Martini somehow goes from under 4 rebounds per game to 7 to 8....not going to happen folks...

Dylan Harper at one guard
JWill at other guard
Ace Bailey at SF
Dylan Grant at PF
Lathan Sommerville at C....

1st guard off bench is Derkack for defense for JWill....

PJ Hayes comes in for Grant and pushes Ace to the PF spot....

Acuff gets healthy and is the 7th man off the bench to provide scoring on the ball or wing with Dylan at PG or someone else at PG.....mix in JMike for 8 to 12 minutes a game.

Martini only has one available role....as Sommerville back up center.....and until he starts hustling to rebound and defend....Sommerville and Martini have the same skill set....match up against an opposing 5 and pull that player away from the rim. He CANNOT be on the floor at the same time with Ogbole to start 4 minutes of each half.

Can RU outscore or out talent Notre Dame and stay with Alabama?? Sure they can, it's still a game we lost when scoring 77 points and playing no defense for 20+ minutes and getting outrebounded by 20.

So....what happens if we don't get outrebounded by 20 and it's just perhaps 6 to 8....that is a win most nights.

Onto Notre Dame, but thinking a coaching staff is going to make poor FT shooters into good ones, is the same as asking poor rebounding and poor defenders to become plus defenders or rebounders.....

This post was wild, the more I read it I felt like I was on an acid trip! Starting Grant, wild! I don’t agree with much of it but it was an interesting read like a work of fiction.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

we were outscored 40-15 to Kennessaw State

Ace Bailey grabbed one rebound and you are calling out Martini

the recaps are getting so horrible from me that you are forgetting i called out this defense and you all but said that doesnt matter, now all of sudden are you are talking about wet freshmen coming off the bench..including Grant who has played like one minute now starting lol

go play at Nova or a real team to get a feel and to help the schedule

it was horrific scheduling, i said back in the summer and its true now, there was no upside at all to this game, not for scheduling, not for net, not for getting the program better

Nova is a terrible program today, you learn nothing by helping a program like Nova, who plays in our region. Kennesaw would wipe the floor with Nova.

You cannot get a elite player or cry about recruiting on a National level and then act as if accommodations, whether you like them or not, should happen.

The same recruiting you complain about for years, invites RU to a NIL sponsorship event AND they're actually going to pay...?? I don't quite understand your logic.

Just because you don't think much of Kennesaw, the tape or game showed a capable team and opponent, that is in C-USA....

In terms of Martini and Ogbole....Ogbole will be needed when we play a 7'3 UCLA center and others like Derek Queen of Maryland etc....in a matchup against faster quicker teams with no center, he doesn't need to start or play minutes.....he doesn't bring anything to the table that another forward can't replicate on offense and there's no lateral quickness on defense.

In terms of Martini, there is a reason he played the 5 at Princeton.....because he cannot close out on shooters and he cannot generate his own offense against another wing or forward.....he has ONE rebound and one favorable matchup.....to go on offense against a lumbering big man, if that opponent has one.

If a team doesn't have a slow footed big man, that he can draw away from the hoop, there's no matchup where he gives you an advantage on offense, rebounding or defense. He is a spot up shooting threat, that has value if an opponent has no clue he can hit open shots.....which in major CBB and scouting, is not likely to happen.

You cannot complain about defense and rebounding and get 3 rebounds in almost 40 minutes and just 14 total points out of 2 starters. I can get those 14 points or more from 2 other players AND get significantly better competitors on defense and the glass.

We have to be honest about the starting lineup....if I felt Ogbole could give us 8 to 10 points every 3 games, I would be fine....I see no path where that happens and he rebounds the ball with solid defense against quicker forwards. He is a matchup player, if an opponent has a true center inside. The lineups to start are horrific and it's going to require Ace and Dylan to be perfect in the 1st 4 to 5 minutes of each half.

 

[seansherm]

Statistically somerville is a much better Dreb. Ogbole a better offreb.

Yeah, EO is weirdly heavy offensive rebound tilted, but those count too and extend possession. I really just wanted to see how many words I could get Hawk to reply with.

 

[RocktheRac]

I thought the game was in Trenton.

You are correct. I was there. Trenton, Newark....same thing.

 

[RUfan1977]

What a Hollywood ending. Rutgers down 21 comes alive in the second half. After 2 missed free throws hometown star Ace Bailey who struggled all game except from deep is passed the ball. He drives towards the 3 point line, stops and elevates, shoots and…

No, our 5 star player who has an outside shot that nobody can block passes off to a role player so that someone else can take a contested shot even if the pass wasn’t picked off.

You can never make the shot you don’t take.

 

[patk89]

I do wonder what the owner of the Hawks who attended thought after this one. What Danny Ferry thought? Ace Bailey is going to have to mature fast for RU to have a successful season. Green Rice FIG's concerns seem to have been on target. I'm still very optimistic that the light will come on and that this will be a good team by March. But worried...

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think we really need to separate NBA draft spot and a player's ability to help a team win in college basketball.

If there was a place where you can see a player's draft stock I'd be pretty confident that Ace hasn't done much to hurt his draft stock while Dylan's is down.

In his 3 games Ace has shown he will take 3s and take comfortable make very difficult shots on his own. The fact that he has done absolutely nothing else probably won't hurt him.

Dylan has made only 6 3 pointers in 5 games. In a big spot last night late in the game he passed up an open 3 pointer to take it to the basket. He has been scoring inside and getting more "garbage" points. Dylan has shown he is quick and has unbelievable body control. He has a quick release, but a low release. He does not (yet) have full confidence in his outside shot.

I am very pleased with his play and his unselfishness....just not sure it translates to what a NBA scout is looking for when making a Top 5 selection.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I do wonder what the owner of the Hawks who attended thought after this one. What Danny Ferry thought? Ace Bailey is going to have to mature fast for RU to have a successful season. Green Rice FIG's concerns seem to have been on target. I'm still very optimistic that the light will come on and that this will be a good team by March. But worried...

We will find out what Dylan and Ace are made of. If Dylan is the Michael Jordan @socaldave thinks he is (I know not #23 but #23esque) he is the one that gets to Ace and gets him to play harder.

Dylan and Ace lost to Kennessaw State. Yes supporting cast were (and may be awful) but 2 NBA stars should be able to overcome that.

I don't necessarily agree with the above as I think it takes 5 guys to win.

 

[seansherm]

What a Hollywood ending. Rutgers down 21 comes alive in the second half. After 2 missed free throws hometown star Ace Bailey who struggled all game except from deep is passed the ball. He drives towards the 3 point line, stops and elevates, shoots and…

No, our 5 star player who has an outside shot that nobody can block passes off to a role player so that someone else can take a contested shot even if the pass wasn’t picked off.

You can never make the shot you don’t take.

I didn't see, but if that's what happened, I can live with it. I think it's actually good Ace is trying to share the ball, i was worried he would not. Learning when to shoot and when not to is part of the process. There were always going to be games like this led by freshman. Anyone who didn't think so lives in happy land.

 

[seansherm]

Nova is a terrible program today, you learn nothing by helping a program like Nova, who plays in our region. Kennesaw would wipe the floor with Nova.

You cannot get a elite player or cry about recruiting on a National level and then act as if accommodations, whether you like them or not, should happen.

The same recruiting you complain about for years, invites RU to a NIL sponsorship event AND they're actually going to pay...?? I don't quite understand your logic.

Just because you don't think much of Kennesaw, the tape or game showed a capable team and opponent, that is in C-USA....

In terms of Martini and Ogbole....Ogbole will be needed when we play a 7'3 UCLA center and others like Derek Queen of Maryland etc....in a matchup against faster quicker teams with no center, he doesn't need to start or play minutes.....he doesn't bring anything to the table that another forward can't replicate on offense and there's no lateral quickness on defense.

In terms of Martini, there is a reason he played the 5 at Princeton.....because he cannot close out on shooters and he cannot generate his own offense against another wing or forward.....he has ONE rebound and one favorable matchup.....to go on offense against a lumbering big man, if that opponent has one.

If a team doesn't have a slow footed big man, that he can draw away from the hoop, there's no matchup where he gives you an advantage on offense, rebounding or defense. He is a spot up shooting threat, that has value if an opponent has no clue he can hit open shots.....which in major CBB and scouting, is not likely to happen.

You cannot complain about defense and rebounding and get 3 rebounds in almost 40 minutes and just 14 total points out of 2 starters. I can get those 14 points or more from 2 other players AND get significantly better competitors on defense and the glass.

We have to be honest about the starting lineup....if I felt Ogbole could give us 8 to 10 points every 3 games, I would be fine....I see no path where that happens and he rebounds the ball with solid defense against quicker forwards. He is a matchup player, if an opponent has a true center inside. The lineups to start are horrific and it's going to require Ace and Dylan to be perfect in the 1st 4 to 5 minutes of each half.

Well said on Martini, agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Shell21]

I didn’t want to go here but since you opened up the can, I’ll jump in. How is he a top 3 pick? Obviously a gifted shot maker, but I don’t see much else. He can’t get to the rim because he’s too skinny to absorb any contact. Haven’t seen much yet in the open court but it’s possible that part comes alive at some point. Don’t see toughness or a high level of competitiveness. We hear mentions of Kevin Durant but he’s not even close to Durant in college. KD averaged 11 boards a game and 2 blocks. Not to mention his 26pts/game.

If he gets drafted that high it will be on potential which means we’re not remotely close to seeing the best of him if he’s one and done.

If I was Pike, i'd show him clips of KD rebounding and playing D in college on a loop. DM him this everyday

 

[RU84]

Let us be clear...this game NEVER should have been scheduled for many reasons. Its pointless to recap because the game really exposed the program right now.

Its also clear this performance could be seen coming miles away. Go read the recaps from the past 3 games. This loss was coming whether it was Kennesaw or Notre Dame.

The lack of team ball or any desire/committment to playing defense was screaming at everyone. Most here were concerned. Others felt its all about outscoring the opponents. Well guess what, our offense isnt so hot either as it struggled mightily in the first half. It wasnt just Ace it was a bunch of them. Sure RU played a decent 2nd half. If they played that 2nd half in the first half, its likely RU is able to emerge with a win perhaps even comfortably. However coming on the court like you are something when you beat 4 sisters of the poor is a surefire recipe to set a loss in play. Team was a deer in headlights as was the coach when the Owls punched them in the mouth. Soft was a word thrown around in the game thread.

Across the board the game was an absolute disaster. There no positives to take from today at least on the court. Whether you had final 4 expectations, Big 10 championship expectations or just expectations to eek into the NCAA tourney, you can put them on ice for now. This team was ranked solely on hype not based on actual performance in the first 4 games. No its not the end of the world. No it doesnt mean RU is headed toward a disappointing season. It just means we need to strip away all the hype and start accepting this team will need to work for what it gets. Not going to win by just showing up on the court with NBA press clippings. Not going to win by not wanting to play defense. Not going to win if you do not have a hunger and I think this team is clearly missing that desire to eat until the last few minutes of the world. You just cannot turn a swtich on and win.

Its going to be up to Pikiell to burn everything down and start making these guys be accountable to themselves and their teammates and to the program. It starts by taking control. Pike has to be accountable to himself and the program. Its obvious his apporach has not really worked. If nothing changes expect more of today. Pike has let the inmates run the asylum. Part of the reason this stupid game was scheduled in the first place. No upside to playing 4 creampuffs at home then throw your team out to a hostile bandbox for its first road game. To make matters worse, Vegas is next. Learning experience and needing this loss. well those are cliches but yeah well it applies here. Ace had a subpar game given his ability. His youth and immaturity showed. Yes the stars showed late and there was a chance at a last shot but yet maybe the most important lesson will be learned from Ace. Cannot hide youth, cannot hide have not been there and it showed in that very last possession. Problem is he is only here for one year so this isnt a case of saying well when Ace is senior he will take and make that game winning shot. It will have come in the next few weeks.

What about the comeback there that fell just short...well yeah its almost better they lost like that than lose by 16. That they could taste the comeback might actually be a positive and then left hanging. Want to give them credit...not me, never should have been in that situation.

The stat lines are brutal.

RU outrebounded 46-27 overall and 14-8 on the offensive boards. Brutal no matter what competiton you are playing against. Speaks to the failure for Pike to go into this season without a servicable center but also speaks to Ace needing to learn alot. I am not sure how this team will be able to compete given their rebounding woes through the first 5 games.

26-66 fg for 39% is pretty poor against an opponent who likes a track meet not known for defense. Obviously Ace at 6-17 fg was way off from the start and thats another reason why I do not like homecoming games scheduled. Yet besides Harper, you had 4 guys going a combined 4-17 fg. Down the stretch it was basically Ace and Dylan doing all the work. The concept of team ball trying to get back into the game wasnt going to work. If RU did win, it was going to be based on the individual talent of Ace and Dylan. Sure most of the time its going to be about them but can anyone feel confident about any other player being able to step up in crunch time. J Will and J Mike have been offensive black holes this season but J Will the bigger issue. If he isnt going to the third scorer, Rutgers is going to have a hard time beating good teams. Must get him healthy and on track. He does bring the only defensive intensity I have seen on the team.

Ogoble with 10 points on 4-5 fg shooting is a highlight for him. Summerville needs so much catching up on defense. Derkack leading rebounder but really shouldnt be driving into trees. PJ Hayes sneaky good game with 8 points and 5 boards. Zak basically nothing except an early 2nd half 3.

Now they head to Vegas to take on a Notre Dame team who got beat by Elon. They are well coached so I expect a dogfight but the great unknown is whether this team takes this loss to heart. Its the other 2 games in Vegas I am worried about the potential for ugliness vs Bama and then possibly Creighton/Sd St and I just do not think physically RU has show toughness to compete there.

This game absolutely should have been played. You learn more from losses and adversity than you do with easy wins.
Kennesaw on the road was a good test, a learning experience and exposed some areas that need to be fixed/tweaked.
Kennesaw is no joke. This is exactly the type of team higher seeds are counting as an auto W in the first round of the NCAA tournament then are shocked when they get knocked out. I’m glad we played them now so hopefully down the road when we play a “lesser” opponent when it counts we won’t take them lightly.

 

[socaldave]

We will find out what Dylan and Ace are made of. If Dylan is the Michael Jordan @socaldave thinks he is (I know not #23 but #23esque) he is the one that gets to Ace and gets him to play harder.

Dylan and Ace lost to Kennessaw State. Yes supporting cast were (and may be awful) but 2 NBA stars should be able to overcome that.

I don't necessarily agree with the above as I think it takes 5 guys to win.

Agreed Fig, more will be revealed, however even Michael And Scottie along with Judd Buchlier 😂, needed a coach and a system to allow them to Flourish.
It’s on Pike to give them the opportunity to be the best they can be.
Pike needs to do a lot better. Maybe talk to Ron Sr every day, or better yet put him on payroll draw him a triangle.
If Pike had the guts to do something transformative like installing an offense with principles similar to Red Holtsman or Phil Jackson we are an elite 8 team.
What we run now when we do is garbage.
I don’t know what can be done now.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The only thing I will agree with you on is that maybe the guy next to Pike (Knight) needs not to be a clone of him but an offensive mind that can do something Pike can't and add a lot more value.

Forget triangles and Ron Harper Sr.

 

[B1GRUfan]

Based on the first 4 games, I think most of us saw this coming but figured it would happen in Vegas. Pike has a real dilemma. He's a defense first guy, but two 5* freshman didn't come to RU to play defense. Hard to even say what the team's identity is or even what it should be at this point. Pike needs to step up and take control of the situation.

 

[bac2therac]

This game absolutely should have been played. You learn more from losses and adversity than you do with easy wins.
Kennesaw on the road was a good test, a learning experience and exposed some areas that need to be fixed/tweaked.
Kennesaw is no joke. This is exactly the type of team higher seeds are counting as an auto W in the first round of the NCAA tournament then are shocked when they get knocked out. I’m glad we played them now so hopefully down the road when we play a “lesser” opponent when it counts we won’t take them lightly.

it didnt take a loss to Kennessaw to see all the issues..they are all there in the first 4 games. In fact playing those garbage teams early at home really not the best scheduling IMO. Again a game vs Nova at Pru would tell us more and also see the team rise to the occasion. Kennesaw wasnt good last year...they were 261. I know they have some transfers from smu and other lower high majors but this isnt Florida Atlantic or UAB. They moved to CUSA but its a poorly ranked conference. People understating how bad this loss is considering two nba top 5 picks on the roster. I said back in the summer this was just stupid to schedule this game. Nothing good can come of it before Vegas. If you win its a Q3 no one cares about, if you lose its a Q3 that sticks out and we will see what KSU finishes but they were picked 9th in cusa which is a move up in conference for them this season I believe

 

[Saint Puppy]

Based on the first 4 games, I think most of us saw this coming but figured it would happen in Vegas. Pike has a real dilemma. He's a defense first guy, but two 5* freshman didn't come to RU to play defense. Hard to even say what the team's identity is or even what it should be at this point. Pike needs to step up and take control of the situation.

I mean that's the big question - you have 2 freshman who are on just such a different trajectory than everyone else. It's a tough balancing act, and not sure that Pike will be able to get control of it. Pike is not Calipari or another stud coach who knows how to manage freshman one and dones - not to mention the world of NIL where your team basically gets reset every year. This is a whole new world to him - love Pike, but this is not the job he initially signed on for and I question whether he can do what this job has turned into.

 

[RU84]

it didnt take a loss to Kennessaw to see all the issues..they are all there in the first 4 games. In fact playing those garbage teams early at home really not the best scheduling IMO. Again a game vs Nova at Pru would tell us more and also see the team rise to the occasion. Kennesaw wasnt good last year...they were 261. I know they have some transfers from smu and other lower high majors but this isnt Florida Atlantic or UAB. They moved to CUSA but its a poorly ranked conference. People understating how bad this loss is considering two nba top 5 picks on the roster. I said back in the summer this was just stupid to schedule this game. Nothing good can come of it before Vegas. If you win its a Q3 no one cares about, if you lose its a Q3 that sticks out and we will see what KSU finishes but they were picked 9th in cusa which is a move up in conference for them this season I believe

Disagree. Something good did come out of it ... it reinforced the point that some things need to be fixed. You're contradicting yourself. First you say we could "see all the issues ... in the first 4 games" then you say "a game vs Nova at Pru would tell us more." If it's clear for us to see the warts against lesser teams why would Nova tell us more? I would argue there's more risk losing to Nova who we recruit against regionally.
Every school front loads their schedule with some "garbage" teams. Now we go to Vegas to play ND, Alabama and another good team to be named later. Then we come back with out of conference games vs Seton Hall and Princeton. What more do you want?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The mistake wasnt playing Kennessaw State. The problem is playing them 48 hours before a back to back in LV.

Rather see this game be opening night.

 

[RU84]

I mean that's the big question - you have 2 freshman who are on just such a different trajectory than everyone else. It's a tough balancing act, and not sure that Pike will be able to get control of it. Pike is not Calipari or another stud coach who knows how to manage freshman one and dones - not to mention the world of NIL where your team basically gets reset every year. This is a whole new world to him - love Pike, but this is not the job he initially signed on for and I question whether he can do what this job has turned into.

You mean the same Calipari that knows how to max out one and done's by losing to the likes of St Peter's and Oakland in the NCAA's and ultimately left Kentucky because of his inability to advance in the tourney with said one and done's?

 

[bac2therac]

Disagree. Something good did come out of it ... it reinforced the point that some things need to be fixed. You're contradicting yourself. First you say we could "see all the issues ... in the first 4 games" then you say "a game vs Nova at Pru would tell us more." If it's clear for us to see the warts against lesser teams why would Nova tell us more? I would argue there's more risk losing to Nova who we recruit against regionally.
Every school front loads their schedule with some "garbage" teams. Now we go to Vegas to play ND, Alabama and another good team to be named later. Then we come back with out of conference games vs Seton Hall and Princeton. What more do you want?

losing to Nova while challenging and testing the program against a real team is more beneficial than going to Kennessaw State in a bandbox where so many things are working against you.

Seton Hall will likely be a Q3 game again and see the same fate for Princeton in another stupid game that didnt need to be scheduled. Notre Dame could be a Q2 or 3 but I dont think they will be considered a quality opponent...so now you have your 2 games in Vegas that will be Q1 games so they better win one of those

the team would have been better off with a challenge in the first 4 games...the set up of a loss here was pretty high even before we realized this team does not play a lick of defense

 

[LeapinLou]

Random observations:

- JMike and Ace may have put too much pressure on themselves. They both played well below their potential.
- Including St. Johns, we are 0-2 against teams with a halfway decent center. We should have found a way to keep Cliff, who doesn't even get big minutes at Alabama.
- Everyone on this post seems to be forgetting that Dylan Harper had an AMAZING 2nd half. I'm not sure if we still had timeouts left, but the ball should have been in his hands for the last possession.
- My biggest concern is Dercack. He looked so good in the first 4 games. He was overmatched in this one. Hopefully this was just a bad day. His four missed free throws were borderline back breakers. We really needed those points.
- Kinnesaw is good, but I'm not so sure their final record will reflect that. They will live and die at the 3 while giving their opponents plenty of foul shots. I fear this is going to go down as a Q3 loss, despite the fact it was a true road game.

 

[RU84]

losing to Nova while challenging and testing the program against a real team is more beneficial than going to Kennessaw State in a bandbox where so many things are working against you.

Seton Hall will likely be a Q3 game again and see the same fate for Princeton in another stupid game that didnt need to be scheduled. Notre Dame could be a Q2 or 3 but I dont think they will be considered a quality opponent...so now you have your 2 games in Vegas that will be Q1 games so they better win one of those

the team would have been better off with a challenge in the first 4 games...the set up of a loss here was pretty high even before we realized this team does not play a lick of defense

Pike wanted to schedule a game close to home for Ace and J Mike. They needed a road game in a hostile environment under their belt before heading to Vegas. The team probably couldn't play any poorly than they did in the first half and still almost won the game.
Again, why give a down Nova team any chance to get a recruiting edge by getting an early season win over a team trying to gel and build chemistry? The best teams in March are battle tested. The team can build on this game ... maybe getting an L yesterday will give them a better shot of getting a W vs ND instead of looking past them to Bama.

 

[zappaa]

Pike wanted to schedule a game close to home for Ace and J Mike. They needed a road game in a hostile environment under their belt before heading to Vegas. The team probably couldn't play any poorly than they did in the first half and still almost won the game.
Again, why give a down Nova team any chance to get a recruiting edge by getting an early season win over a team trying to gel and build chemistry? The best teams in March are battle tested. The team can build on this game ... maybe getting an L yesterday will give them a better shot of getting a W vs ND instead of looking past them to Bama.

Looking past ND, lol

 

[LeapinLou]

I think someone had said Kinnesaw was around 177. Going to be tough for this one to have a chance to be a Q2 loss. Looking like Q3. Ugh.

• Quadrant 1: Home 1-30, Neutral 1-50, Away 1-75
• Quadrant 2: Home 31-75, Neutral 51-100, Away 76-135
• Quadrant 3: Home 76-160, Neutral 101-200, Away 135-240
• Quadrant 4: Home 161-353, Neutral 201-353, Away 241-353

 

[darkcheck]

Going to be an 0-4 week. This team is simply not good. Don’t give me any BS about coming all the way back and losing by only two. If you’re as good as advertised or expected, you’re never in that predicament to begin with.

Possibly 4-5 after Ohio st. I hope not, but possible.

 

[darkcheck]

Ok, so please rationalize how it’s promising that the transfers ‘from smaller programs and leagues’ are being outplayed by players still with smaller programs and leagues ?

Shelby needs a laugh.

That’s a really good, valid question. IMHO it comes down to teambuilding and roles. You need offense, as we painfully found out last year. But you can’t ignore everything else to get it. Rebounding, defense, efficiency. We all knew we needed a portal C. Needed another experienced “4”. Acuff and Dercack scored but weren’t efficient. So now these low to mid major grabs aren’t part of a complete team. When the balls not going in you can still win with D, boards and low TOs. We ignored those things. The little teams we’ve played so far didn’t. Add in the fact that we entered the season with giant heads and truckloads of unearned hype. Ta da. To me the answer to your question is Pike constructed the team poorly, especially knowing you have Ace and Dylan. Maybe an experienced center and rebounder would have been better than MaAC mvp or mid major top scorer, div 2 shooter ANd an empty scholarship. Some will say we didn’t have the nil. We don’t know the whole truth. Maybe the rumors that Sommerville threatened to not get a portal c are also true.

 

[Saint Puppy]

You mean the same Calipari that knows how to max out one and done's by losing to the likes of St Peter's and Oakland in the NCAA's and ultimately left Kentucky because of his inability to advance in the tourney with said one and done's?

Same guy who in 15 years who went 410-123, had 4 final four appearances and a national championship. At the end of the day tourney is a crapshoot anyway. Wildly successful coach with one and dones, and a legend at Kentucky. Silly argument by you.

 

[RU84]

Same guy who in 15 years who went 410-123, had 4 final four appearances and a national championship. At the end of the day tourney is a crapshoot anyway. Wildly successful coach with one and dones, and a legend at Kentucky. Silly argument by you.

The game has evolved and he had trouble adapting. When was the last time he went deep in the tournament? Why do you think he left KU?

 

[G- RUnit]

Hopefully it’s a wake up call.
Dylan showed he could take over a game.
I think the healthier Williams gets, the better he will play. He did turn it up a notch in the 2nd half.
Derkack missing foul shots going 2-6 from the line really hurt in retrospect.
I was puzzled why it was Ace bringing up the ball on last possession. Happenstance?
We did have a decent second half comeback and late arriving in Atlanta couldn’t have helped.
Although horribly out rebounded, thought paradoxically, O had a decent game.
And we did 16 points from the center position.
Suppose playing this many games in this many days is like the B1G tournament, the B1G Dance or if you get the dreaded play in game?
Also Preparation for the end of B1G season where the B1G which continues to make it as difficult as possible, gives us 4 of the last six 6 on road and then B1G tourney?
Is Acuff still hurting?
Do think need him or Hayes to hit from the outside to let Dylan and Ace do their thing inside.
As bad a loss as it was still thought if we get that last shot we win or tie at buzzer and/or win in Overtime.
Come out angry against ND, get a win and keep improving.
Hope this game was a cruel lesson.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If we still had Simpson this game could have been on the campus of Rowan University!