Rutgers is 6-3 in B1G when Ace and Dylan are both healthy

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think the bigger takeaway is they should never put themselves in a position where they have to replace 83% of the prior year's minutes ever again.

We also aren't privy to the NIL stuff which potentially is the puzzle.

 

[goru7]

One issue with this analysis is that the top 5 teams in the conference (MSU, UM, Purdue, Maryland and Wisconsin) are all on the not healthy list.

Yeah so maybe Michigan and Wisconsin has a different result. We were down 3 at half at MSG against MSU and Dylan couldn’t go and J . Richardson erupted. Dylan on that stage would have made a big difference second half completely healthy. We played Maryland the best of any team at their place and it is a 5 point game when ACE checks out . We couldn’t handle Queen and no ACE to provide any help.

 

[T2Kplus20]

I preface this by saying that I agree with everyone that the supporting cast Pike assembled this year left a lot to be desired and was a major reason we stand at 14-14 (7-10). But the series of injuries, illnesses and misfortunes that beset this team also contributed greatly -- Acuff foot injury, JWill shoulder injury, Dylan flu, Dylan ankle injury, Ogbole knee injury (just when he was starting to contribute), Ace illness/asthma, and JWill flu. Yes, other teams suffered injuries and illnesses, but I'm not making excuses here, just telling the reality that with the subpar supporting cast, Rutgers was just not equipped to operate efficiently with major pieces out of action or limited.

The absence or limitations of Dylan and Ace were the primary factor. Rutgers is 6-3 in games in which both Ace and Dylan were healthy, and a stunning 1-7 in games where one of them was either out or limited.

When both Ace and Dylan were healthy (6-3):

• PSU - win
• OSU - LOSS
• UCLA - win
• Nebraska - win
• Illinois - win
• Iowa - LOSS
• Oregon - LOSS
• Washington - win
• USC - win

When either Ace or Dylan not playing or limited (1-7):

• Dylan flu:
  • Indiana - LOSS
  • Wisky - LOSS
  • Purdue - LOSS
• Dylan ankle:
  • PSU - LOSS
  • MSU - LOSS
  • NW - win
  • Michigan - LOSS
• Ace illness/asthma:
  • Maryland - LOSS

Take this for what it's worth, but despite the limitations on this team, we could be 16-12 or 17-11 if Dylan and Ace had been healthy this year and sitting firmly on the right side of the bubble.

The best ability is availability. Both Ace and Dylan have sucked on this front.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There's 5 to 6 versions of this current team.

OOC with Martini, Derkack, Hayes and Ogbole in starting roles or playing 10 to 20 minutes a game with little from Acuff. But competition wasn't strong.....

OOC mixed with 2 B1G games with Martini, Derkack, Hayes and Ogbole in starting roles or playing 10 to 20 minutes a game with little from Acuff. Competition much stronger or talented and no contributions from other 2 freshman (Grant and Dortch)

OOC with Martini, Derkack, Hayes and Ogbole in starting roles or playing 10 to 20 minutes a game with little from Acuff. But Derkack, Martini and Ogbole playing too many minutes (Princeton, Columbia etc) and no minutes for Grant and Dortch.

B1G slate in January with suddenly no Dylan Harper, change in roles for Dylan Grant and Lathan starting with an overloaded workload of Ace Bailey and not sure what plan was for Martini, Grant or Derkack.

B1G slate in February with recovering Dylan Harper, expanded roles for Dylan Grant, reducing role for Derkack and Hayes, much better roles off bench for Martini while starting Lathan and Dylan Grant and some minutes for Bryce Dortch...

Sunday's game is essentially the 6th different version of RU in 28 games, with now an idea of what Grant, Dortch and Ogbole can do, while getting a defined role off the bench for JMike, Martini and Acuff.

With the reduction in turnovers from Derkack not playing as much and now with 2 extra lengthy defenders in Dortch and Ogbole, RU is finally set with options that are best suited for all of the players. Dortch specifically can be used properly in the Derkack role, where he can handle a pass and make a pass AND dive for a layup or dunk, instead of asking Derkack to drive into traffic against bigger players.

More importantly, Ogbole can absorb the contact against a bigger center, instead of asking Dortch to do so.

I have no real way of trying to determine what team is better on offense or defense based on solely Ace and Dylan, there are WAY too many variables mentioned above that make the lineup, opponents and experience of freshman are all different now in late February than late November.

 

[TRU2RU]

1. yes
2. i think there is some more accountability..perhaps not as much as we would like. We shoud never take one and dones anymore....Pitino is so right on 5 star high school players

Easy for Pitino to say when he has a multi millionaire giving a blank check for any recruit Pitino wants

 

[Degaz-RU]

There's 5 to 6 versions of this current team.

OOC with Martini, Derkack, Hayes and Ogbole in starting roles or playing 10 to 20 minutes a game with little from Acuff. But competition wasn't strong.....

OOC mixed with 2 B1G games with Martini, Derkack, Hayes and Ogbole in starting roles or playing 10 to 20 minutes a game with little from Acuff. Competition much stronger or talented and no contributions from other 2 freshman (Grant and Dortch)

OOC with Martini, Derkack, Hayes and Ogbole in starting roles or playing 10 to 20 minutes a game with little from Acuff. But Derkack, Martini and Ogbole playing too many minutes (Princeton, Columbia etc) and no minutes for Grant and Dortch.

B1G slate in January with suddenly no Dylan Harper, change in roles for Dylan Grant and Lathan starting with an overloaded workload of Ace Bailey and not sure what plan was for Martini, Grant or Derkack.

B1G slate in February with recovering Dylan Harper, expanded roles for Dylan Grant, reducing role for Derkack and Hayes, much better roles off bench for Martini while starting Lathan and Dylan Grant and some minutes for Bryce Dortch...

Sunday's game is essentially the 6th different version of RU in 28 games, with now an idea of what Grant, Dortch and Ogbole can do, while getting a defined role off the bench for JMike, Martini and Acuff.

With the reduction in turnovers from Derkack not playing as much and now with 2 extra lengthy defenders in Dortch and Ogbole, RU is finally set with options that are best suited for all of the players. Dortch specifically can be used properly in the Derkack role, where he can handle a pass and make a pass AND dive for a layup or dunk, instead of asking Derkack to drive into traffic against bigger players.

More importantly, Ogbole can absorb the contact against a bigger center, instead of asking Dortch to do so.

I have no real way of trying to determine what team is better on offense or defense based on solely Ace and Dylan, there are WAY too many variables mentioned above that make the lineup, opponents and experience of freshman are all different now in late February than late November.

I could quibble here or there with this post, but GENERALLY I think you’re correct in terms of the different versions of this team that we have seen over the course of the year.

Boiling it down — Pike probably made a mistake in giving Derkack, Hayes, and Martini so many minutes in November and December, and in not playing at least Grant more minutes. Combine that with Ace getting his sea legs in college ball, and Pike trying to incorporate 7 new players (9 minus Grant and Dortch, who he was keeping on the bench), and you have a mess in the first 10 games.

Just when it looked like things were SOMEWHAT coming together (against Columbia), the very next game Dylan goes down with the flu and can’t play at Indiana. That illness derailed whatever progress had been made up to that point.

I won’t summarize what ensued thereafter, but the bottom line is that a combination of factors has led to 14-14, and “injuries/illnesses to Ace and Dylan” stand equal with “poorly constructed supporting cast” and “questionable coaching decisions” as the main culprits.

 

[RUJMM78]

We have had Pike here for 9 years......we haven't seen anything like this before.

At some point you need to come to the conclusion the lion share of the blame HAS to go to the players.

Rutgers basketball is on the map because Pike gets players to play hard. We are the opposite of IOWA. He is the furthest from an offensive mind.

So all of a sudden Pike can't players to play hard. NO!

Pikiell has some responsibility because he recruited the players and had 7 months to get them prepared for competition.Duke has 3 freshmen starting and they are ranked number two in the national rankings.In contrast Rutgers might not even have a winning record at the end of the season.Somebody has to be held responsible for the disappointing results.

 

[seansherm]

I could quibble here or there with this post, but GENERALLY I think you’re correct in terms of the different versions of this team that we have seen over the course of the year.

Boiling it down — Pike probably made a mistake in giving Derkack, Hayes, and Martini so many minutes in November and December, and in not playing at least Grant more minutes. Combine that with Ace getting his sea legs in college ball, and Pike trying to incorporate 7 new players (9 minus Grant and Dortch, who he was keeping on the bench), and you have a mess in the first 10 games.

Just when it looked like things were SOMEWHAT coming together (against Columbia), the very next game Dylan goes down with the flu and can’t play at Indiana. That illness derailed whatever progress had been made up to that point.

I won’t summarize what ensued thereafter, but the bottom line is that a combination of factors has led to 14-14, and “injuries/illnesses to Ace and Dylan” stand equal with “poorly constructed supporting cast” and “questionable coaching decisions” as the main culprits.

Is waiting on Grant really that big of deal? After the early jolt, he's pretty much fallen back to a decent rebounding terrible defending mediocre player thus far. Down to 22% from three. Not sure how to quantity his contributions as much of it has come at the same time we lost Ogbole's. Did he just replace those? For a freshman, love to see anything he gives us. But, other than on occasion, has he been a consistent factor toward winning? IDK.

 

[Rutgers25]

Healthy Dylan means at least 16-12, 9-8 at this point in my view. Still a disappointment relative to what we were all hoping for this year but still on bubble

 

[goru7]

Is waiting on Grant really that big of deal? After the early jolt, he's pretty much fallen back to a decent rebounding terrible defending mediocre player thus far. Down to 22% from three. Not sure how to quantity his contributions as much of it has come at the same time we lost Ogbole's. Did he just replace those? For a freshman, love to see anything he gives us. But, other than on occasion, has he been a consistent factor toward winning? IDK.

You are really looking at the worst part and ignoring the good part. Grant hits the boards , he gets tip ins and dunks on the offensive end and can block shots on the defensive end. You look at it and say his production has fallen off but you ignore he is sitting huge chunks of games ( partially because of the emergence of Bryce and other guards taking minutes and going small. Pike sits him 16 minutes and then puts him in for 2-4 minutes is not fair to Dylan to try and analyze his contributions. I listed the things he has done well plus despite the lower 3 point shooting , he can hit a 3 as well. To think you think Manny was giving us Dylan’s offensive production and offensive boards is not based on facts. He is a freshman that gets better the more he plays not the less he plays. Hard to navigate that tightrope of playing and not playing . It would be one thing if he is taken out for a few minutes and put back in but in actuality he is taken out and sits for 10 minutes thereafter then eventually put back in.

 

[seansherm]

You are really looking at the worst part and ignoring the good part. Grant hits the boards , he gets tip ins and dunks on the offensive end and can block shots on the defensive end. You look at it and say his production has fallen off but you ignore he is sitting huge chunks of games ( partially because of the emergence of Bryce and other guards taking minutes and going small. Pike sits him 16 minutes and then puts him in for 2-4 minutes is not fair to Dylan to try and analyze his contributions. I listed the things he has done well plus despite the lower 3 point shooting , he can hit a 3 as well. To think you think Manny was giving us Dylan’s offensive production and offensive boards is not based on facts. He is a freshman that gets better the more he plays not the less he plays. Hard to navigate that tightrope of playing and not playing . It would be one thing if he is taken out for a few minutes and put back in but in actuality he is taken out and sits for 10 minutes thereafter then eventually put back in.

Stop. He's sitting long stretches because for every good thing he does there is one and a half bad. Which is to be expected for a freshman.
I'm ecstatic he's playing and getting reps as a freshman.
Yes, he adds more on offense than Ogbole. His best attribute, rebounding, isn't as good as Ogbole, and his block #'s are similar. I'm not trying to analyze anything other than if his contributions have been less meaningful because he's basically had to take Ogboles minutes rather than replace Martini. Had Ogbole stayed healthy, and was coming off bench w Martini, Grant's contributions may have meant more. His 5 and 3 has really only served to replace EO's 4 and 4. It's not a criticism, just a probable fact.

 

[goru7]

Stop. He's sitting long stretches because for every good thing he does there is one and a half bad. Which is to be expected for a freshman.
I'm ecstatic he's playing and getting reps as a freshman.
Yes, he adds more on offense than Ogbole. His best attribute, rebounding, isn't as good as Ogbole, and his block #'s are similar. I'm not trying to analyze anything other than if his contributions have been less meaningful because he's basically had to take Ogboles minutes rather than replace Martini. Had Ogbole stayed healthy, and was coming off bench w Martini, Grant's contributions may have meant more. His 5 and 3 has really only served to replace EO's 4 and 4. It's not a criticism, just a probable fact.

Sometimes it is impossible to discuss with you when you say things are probable fact when they clearly are not. Dylan is not perfect on defense but he gives you a ton more than Manny on offense and until last game Dorsch. If you do not think sitting out 10 minutes at a time can affect your play , you are putting your head in the sand. Anybody that has ever played needs to get a lather going and when it is shut off , it is difficult to turn back on.
Your post does seem like a bad criticism but you probably don’t see it as you only see what you want to see.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Pikiell has some responsibility because he recruited the players and had 7 months to get them prepared for competition.Duke has 3 freshmen starting and they are ranked number two in the national rankings.In contrast Rutgers might not even have a winning record at the end of the season.Somebody has to be held responsible for the disappointing results.

Pike the GM absolutely!!!!

Not debating that.

Blaming Pike for the bad D and lack of hustle….blaming Pike the GM, but the players (including Ace and Dylan) own this.

USC missed 35 shots and Harper and Bailey rebonded 2 of them.

 

[seansherm]

Sometimes it is impossible to discuss with you when you say things are probable fact when they clearly are not. Dylan is not perfect on defense but he gives you a ton more than Manny on offense and until last game Dorsch. If you do not think sitting out 10 minutes at a time can affect your play , you are putting your head in the sand. Anybody that has ever played needs to get a lather going and when it is shut off , it is difficult to turn back on.
Your post does seem like a bad criticism but you probably don’t see it as you only see what you want to see.

Sitting for long stretches happens to everyone.

Is Dylans 5 points per a big leap from EO's 4? Dylan has the capability of becoming a much bigger offensive contributor than EO. I'm not making a comp of them as players. All I'm saying is, for the most part, what he's done is mimic EOs stat #'s, granted in a different way.

He's scored 4 a game since his 19 point breakout. He has 2 rebounds in his last 40 minutes played, 10 in his last four games played.

I see a guy I'm completely happy with and can also be objective about.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Healthy Dylan means at least 16-12, 9-8 at this point in my view. Still a disappointment relative to what we were all hoping for this year but still on bubble

are you giving us the healthy version that is taking the ball to the basket when he has a chance. Not the one when healthy went to 2-3 games where he had low energy?

We could have said the same with Cliff last year....we had games when he was in to it playing with high energy and games where it looked like 2 hours ago he finished his entire easter basket

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I could quibble here or there with this post, but GENERALLY I think you’re correct in terms of the different versions of this team that we have seen over the course of the year.

Boiling it down — Pike probably made a mistake in giving Derkack, Hayes, and Martini so many minutes in November and December, and in not playing at least Grant more minutes. Combine that with Ace getting his sea legs in college ball, and Pike trying to incorporate 7 new players (9 minus Grant and Dortch, who he was keeping on the bench), and you have a mess in the first 10 games.

Just when it looked like things were SOMEWHAT coming together (against Columbia), the very next game Dylan goes down with the flu and can’t play at Indiana. That illness derailed whatever progress had been made up to that point.

I won’t summarize what ensued thereafter, but the bottom line is that a combination of factors has led to 14-14, and “injuries/illnesses to Ace and Dylan” stand equal with “poorly constructed supporting cast” and “questionable coaching decisions” as the main culprits.

plus Dylan and Ace not being as good of a college basketball players as people think. They are wonderful offensive players, but defense is 50% of the game.

We are more 14-14 because we are a 14-14 team.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

I preface this by saying that I agree with everyone that the supporting cast Pike assembled this year left a lot to be desired and was a major reason we stand at 14-14 (7-10). But the series of injuries, illnesses and misfortunes that beset this team also contributed greatly -- Acuff foot injury, JWill shoulder injury, Dylan flu, Dylan ankle injury, Ogbole knee injury (just when he was starting to contribute), Ace illness/asthma, and JWill flu. Yes, other teams suffered injuries and illnesses, but I'm not making excuses here, just telling the reality that with the subpar supporting cast, Rutgers was just not equipped to operate efficiently with major pieces out of action or limited.

The absence or limitations of Dylan and Ace were the primary factor. Rutgers is 6-3 in games in which both Ace and Dylan were healthy, and a stunning 1-7 in games where one of them was either out or limited.

When both Ace and Dylan were healthy (6-3):

• PSU - win
• OSU - LOSS
• UCLA - win
• Nebraska - win
• Illinois - win
• Iowa - LOSS
• Oregon - LOSS
• Washington - win
• USC - win

When either Ace or Dylan not playing or limited (1-7):

• Dylan flu:
  • Indiana - LOSS
  • Wisky - LOSS
  • Purdue - LOSS
• Dylan ankle:
  • PSU - LOSS
  • MSU - LOSS
  • NW - win
  • Michigan - LOSS
• Ace illness/asthma:
  • Maryland - LOSS

Take this for what it's worth, but despite the limitations on this team, we could be 16-12 or 17-11 if Dylan and Ace had been healthy this year and sitting firmly on the right side of the bubble.

Illinois pounding Iowa tonight. How did we lose to Iowa (at home!) with Dylan and Ace healthy?

 

[SBP]

Illinois pounding Iowa tonight. How did we lose to Iowa (at home!) with Dylan and Ace healthy?

Lazy effort inexcusably bad.

 

[JavaDunk18]

RU also took two top 10 teams to the final minute on a neutral site in Vegas.. so yes, if they stayed healthy we would probably be in the projected tournament field now.. but also, none of the teams in the BTT are as good as Alabama or Texas A&M (MSU maybe close) so Rutgers is capable of making a run on a neutral court. in BTT