Game 5: Bryant Thoughts

[RutgHoops]

My quick thoughts:

• This is the best team in transition since Earl Duncan was running our offense. Our execution on the break is really, really good. Getting easy baskets is going to be invaluable to this team.
• As long as Freeman is grabbing his 7 or 8 rebounds a game he is doing what this team needs. 6,7,8,7,7 are his boards thru five games. Plus 12 against St. John's in the exhibition. I am confident his scoring will pick up. He is a 10/7 player which is very solid in CBB. Not concerned.
• Thiam grabbing 6+ rebounds a game is a massive improvement. Not sure he will make shots at the rate we'd like, but he shoots it just well enough to keep defenses honest (imo)
• That was one heck of a game from Geo
• That was one heck of a game from Corey
• Doucoure is going to be really, really good
• Our FT shooting is a legitimate concern

 

[RUBigFrank]

I think Pike is playing the starters late in game to get them the feel together and to install you have to work hard to the end....

I would agree here - the team needs to get comfortable together - what I like is that the scoring is balanced with a different high scorer each game.

Been a lot of knocks on Souf - again a player that needs to get comfortable - he has great speed. Give him time.

 

[higgins3]

Good game for the young lads.

Baker and Sanders are like fire and ice. Baker is ice- more methodical, makes smart plays. Sanders is fire, sometimes erratic, pushes the ball too much. They compliment each other very well. Chemistry is brewing on the court. They could become quite the duo.

Sanders is starting to really appreciate Baker for knowing his game, and working with him. Pikiell is asking Sanders to play off the ball more. That means he has to change where he is on offense, and where his plays will come from. Baker knows where to look for him. Oops, backdoor cuts, in transition. Those will be Sanders big spots. He is starting to trust Baker, and likes how he can help him out in this new transition.

Thiam- There is a good chance we don't see the best Thiam till junior year. That is what it is. He is still contributing, is getting more rebounds, and can use his length to alter shots. He is not a negative to the team, even when his shot is not on.

Freeman- He will be in the process of realizing games where he has a matchup. He also has to realize in basketball, there will always be someone on your team that is playing very well. Hopefully.. in that moment, you know you are not going to get as many looks that night. He will have his better gams against opponents who go traditional, where Freeman is likely quicker.

Something to note- the kid has had a life most of us would struggle with. As fans, I think it's important to know our players. Emotionally, Freeman has had a really rough go. Sometimes it comes across as bad energy. I think he still has success this year. The team needs him.

Mensah- Staff took a gamble on him to an extent. I think the reasons he was brought in are still because he worked hard, worked out, and could be seen as a leader. Not all the reasons were basketball related Oh well, small risk if it doesn't play out. Just a two year player. I hope he turns it around. At a certain point, I think Dadika gives you more. Can hit his free throws, will always play hard for Pikiell.

Tides have definitely turned. As much as some teams will pull their players when they are up big, Pikiell wants recruits and the country to know this is a new team. Rutgers can beat people by 30, not the people losing by 30. The perception is changing very quickly. Incoming tide on the banks..all aboard. Sorry, I had to.

Next game best game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sanders in transition is almost Michael Jordan like. Between the body control and the height it is amazing.

Pikiell wants this team to push it in transition more.

 

[higgins3]

Thiam is not a bad shooter, Pike keeps saying that he is one of the best shooters on the team along with Geo. The kid is streaky, but we've seen what he can do when he gets hot like he did against Cleveland State.

Picture Thiam having the night he did against Cstate, and Baker doing what he did last night.

That would be something else. Sanders, and the front court would widely benefit from that type of situation. So much open territory.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Sanders in transition is almost Michael Jordan like. Between the body control and the height it is amazing.

Pikiell wants this team to push it in transition more.

That's the main thing I am still waiting for...more uptempo and then we will see what everyone can do....team does have some speed.

 

[OntheBanks]

Man. I was going to post that you would make a post like this. I actually texted someone who also posts here that you would make a post after our best game by far that you felt worse about things. So predictable. It’s what you do even if it makes no sense.

I do agree that I am worried about Thiam. Souf should never be on the court so they are just going to have to work in the rotation without him. I mean he was again beyond bad. It was a joke at first. But Dadika should be getting his minutes. He can stay in front of his man on D.

I agree with everything that you said except I'm more worried about Freeman than Thiam. It may be time to sit Freeman and replace him with Eugene.
Starters would be Cory, Geo, Eugene, Issa & Mamadou right now.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I've said this before, but the coaching staff needs to put in a 2 dribble max rule for Freeman when he's in the low post. Watch for it. >2 dribbles = turnover, bad shot, blocked shot.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I agree with everything that you said except I'm more worried about Freeman than Thiam. It may be time to sit Freeman and replace him with Eugene.
Starters would be Cory, Geo, Eugene, Issa & Mamadou right now.

I trust Pikiell will know the best way to handle. What may work with Corey might not work with DeShawn. I get the sense using a doghouse might not work here.

To me this isn't about knocking down shots or not passing out of a double team or getting points and rebounds.

Love what Eugene is doing, but he is not Freeman and never will be. Freeman is more skilled and has more given ability. This team has to get Freeman playing up to his ability.

 

[RULowBrass2010]

I trust Pikiell will know the best way to handle. What may work with Corey might not work with DeShawn. I get the sense using a doghouse might not work here.

To me this isn't about knocking down shots or not passing out of a double team or getting points and rebounds.

Love what Eugene is doing, but he is not Freeman and never will be. Freeman is more skilled and has more given ability. This team has to get Freeman playing up to his ability.

The difference between Eugene and Freeman right now is the will and effort to succeed. Eugene is showing much more promise early on this season compared to Freeman. I think we are a much better team right now with Eugene on the floor instead of Freeman.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I trust Pikiell will know the best way to handle. What may work with Corey might not work with DeShawn. I get the sense using a doghouse might not work here.

To me this isn't about knocking down shots or not passing out of a double team or getting points and rebounds.

Love what Eugene is doing, but he is not Freeman and never will be. Freeman is more skilled and has more given ability. This team has to get Freeman playing up to his ability.

One of the strange things about Freeman is that his mid range shot seems to be falling...he is not taking as many as I think he should take. That opens up his strong suit...driving and taking advantage of his mobility. Maybe some film study will bring it to light.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

The difference between Eugene and Freeman right now is the will and effort to succeed. Eugene is showing much more promise early on this season compared to Freeman. I think we are a much better team right now with Eugene on the floor instead of Freeman.

Actually, I think you can make a case that we have played better with Freeman and Eugene on the court at the same time. When Pikiell goes small. I know the comp was small, but, I think they did pretty good against St. Johns.

 

[jellyman]

To chime in ...

I think I agree with most that Bac writes.

And while I agree with a number of the individual player comments FIG writes, I totally disagree with his negative tone and overall conclusions ... and I totally disagree with his comments on Thiam.

Here are my thoughts:

Overall Team - Defense: I agree with Bac that the team defense was very good in the 2nd half. Though Bryant is not a great team - not even a good team, frankly - they have been able to score a little this season: Over 70 points against each of Navy and NC State. I thought RU's defense in the 1st half was only okay, but much better in the 2nd half. I also thought RU gave up too many offensive rebounds in the 2nd half, possibly due to too aggressive, and therefore sub-optimal, defensive rotation - and maybe going for blocked shots ... RU DID end up with 15 blocked shots, which is a lot. Finally, I believe RU will have to keep working to improve its prevention of dribble penetration - AND close out on 3-point shooting by its post defenders.

Overall Team - Offense: Making shots sure seems to cure a lot of ills, eh? Oddly enough, however, RU had just 15 assists to get 33 FG's. There was plenty of good ball movement. But also a fair amount of 1 on 1 drives (Mike Williams, Sanders, Omoruyi) and 1 on 1 dribble penetration and pull ups (Baker and Sanders). To consistently score against better competition RU will have to find the proper balance between the penetration and pull ups, the penetration and going to the rim, and the penetration and kick. This game is not a test of that. I thought Sanders, Baker and Omoruyi played particularly good "floor" games. Sanders was noticeably focused on his floor game and creating offensive flow - to his credit - and focused on NOT taking a lot of 3's - only 1 attempt. FT's do remain an issue, unfortunately. But it was good to see - and it should help the team's confidence - to get off to a good start shooting in general, and for Baker to light it up.

Players:

Baker: I first watched him play for RU in the exhibition vs St. Johns. My immediate reaction then, and it has only been reinforced in each game, is that he has a shot to be a star for RU. Yes, he has to get stronger, and if he can get more athletically explosive, that would be helpful. And, he can - and will - improve his on-ball defense. But everything else just screams at me that this is a player around which you can build a program. Obviously, he will not always hit 7-10 3-pointers. But he surely looks like he can be capable from 3, even if it is too early to determine whether he can be more than merely capable. He has an excellent pull-up AND step-back jumper, one of the most difficult moves to defend. He has GREAT basketball IQ and is a superb passer. AND ... he is a legitimate 6'4" (maybe 6'5", though not sure of that), playing PG ... a terrific size for college PG's.

Sanders: Excellent game - great control more often than not, very energetic and focused defense in this game, concerted effort to BE under control, to work the offense. And nice to see him make some shots from mid-range, and to NOT force up a bunch of 3-pointers. The more games Sanders has like this (and I do not mean scoring 18 points - though that is good also), the better for him and for RU. He does still have to reduce those lazy wing passes from the top of the key, however.

Doucore: By the SECOND game this year, I said Doucore had a HUGE ceiling. This game, though against weak competition, allowed Doucore to display some of the elements of his game that though they still have to be honed, and will likely only be displayed inconsistently during the course of this season, will result, in my opinion, in Doucore being part of a trio or quartet around which Pikiell will build this PROGRAM (not just team). Dourcore is going to be GOOD ... and he may end up being a PF by his Jr or Sr year, depending on other players brought in. He has a mid-range game (when is the last time RU had a PF/C with a mid-range game), he will be a decent FT shooter, he will be a very good rebounder, and I believe - though he still has to show it - he will develop into at least a solid, maybe better than average defender.

TIME OUT: I have comments on other players, but need to leave, and take my laptop with me - and restart it, so I will post this, and pick up later.

I will say this about Thiam: Yes, he missed some shots today - and yes you could say "again." But he is vastly improved, without any question. I believe we get a fair amount of inconsistencies this year (remember, Pikiell said he, and Omoruyi, really should have been red shirted last season). You will get some games where Thiam scores 8-12 points, and some games where he goes 1-6 or 2-8 or worse. And he is not the best defender - he needs better lateral quickness. But his length on defense on the wing DOES help, and he is averaging over 6 rebounds a game, making a noticeable efforts to rebound, both on the offensive and defensive boards. I think by next season we might see 10+ points per game ... that is not a stretch at all, in my opinion. And a 6'10' WF, who can rebound, be solid defensively and score 10+ points per game ,,, that is a valuable asset on a college team. He should average over 20 minutes per game for this year's team ... which is 20+ of the 28 minutes FIG has stated are needed from him and Mensah combined so Baker, Williams and Sanders are not over-worked.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think the good news is next year there will be/should be massive battles for WF minutes. Thiam will have to earn those minutes, right now they are his by default. In the B1G you need your 3rd perimeter player (call it a WF) has to be an offensive weapon.

I need to see Issa vs. better competition to gauge better his overall improvement.

 

[RUChoppin]

A few things...

Freeman: He had a monster game against SJU, which got my expectations up, and has been much quieter since. This wasn't a good game for him, but he's still averaging 10.2 pts, 7.0 rbs,1.2 blocks, 1.0 assists, and 1.0 turnovers... in just 23.8 min per game. Normalized for minutes played, he's doing a touch better than he was last year. Wasn't able to see the game, just listen on the radio - so I can't comment about his body language. Right now, Omoruyi is fighting hard for his minutes, though.

Thiam: Not sure where the disappointment is coming from here. He's averaging 9.8/6.4 in 26.3 min/game as a true sophomore who finished last year averaging 3.9/1.4 in 18.4 min/game. His 3pt shot isn't falling consistently, but he has shown he can hit them with his 4/8 night. Baker hit just 3 of his first 16 attempts before going 7/10 yesterday. Outside of Thiam's game against Cleveland State, he's gone 3/18. Both have had one really strong outside shooting performance - we'll see how the rest of the season goes. Hopefully both can become more consistent.

Free Throws: This is much better than last year, aside from Omoruyi. If you look at the six guys who have started games this year (Sanders/Baker/Thiam/Freeman/Doucoure/Williams), they're shooting a collective 49/65 (75.4%). If you took the six guys with the most starts last year (Gettys/Sanders/Freeman/Thiam/Johnson/Williams), they shot 326/499 (65.3%).

 

[RickB113]

Great post Jelly. Dukes potential is through the roof. He needs to develop a jump hook. That will come though.

I think we gave up a lot of long rebounds in the second half. They were taking a lot of jumpers. I don't think we got killed on the glass just got beat on some bad bounces.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

One of the strange things about Freeman is that his mid range shot seems to be falling...he is not taking as many as I think he should take. That opens up his strong suit...driving and taking advantage of his mobility. Maybe some film study will bring it to light.

Every uncontested shot inside of 17 feet needs to be taken without hesitation. Duocore too. If this happens all of a sudden Corey's 2 point FG% creeps to and maybe over 50%.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I am really beginning to think Thiam is the key tothe year

With Freeman playing 28 mpg (and some at the five spot), it also looks like Eugene's minutes are coming exclusively at the four spot

You can burn out Mike, Corey, and Geo playing them more than 30 mpg.

So...we NEED 25 good minutes out of Thiam as Bullock isn't going to help and Mensah playing more than 5 mpg is a major liability. We don't have a 4th answer at the 1,2, and 3 spot this year after Thiam and we need him to step up bad

Mpg needs to be
Sanders 30
Baker 30
Williams 30
Freeman 28
Thiam 25
Doucoure 24
Eugene O 18
Doorson/Sa 10
Mensah 5

 

[jonS]

My take aways:

1) Absolutely love Geo's game;
2) This is going to be a great learning year for Doucoure who will sometimes hold his own, will sometimes show his inexperience;
3) Like the development out of Issa.
4) To me, Eugene and Deshawn are a toss-up; disappointed in Deshawn's decision making when he gets the bal on the post;
5) Good game for Corey, esp in terms of shooting confidence, but I hated those lazy passes in first half;
6) Was concerned with our defensive rotation at times--will improve but the competition wil improve by a lot;
6) I know their record and their ranking, but I thought outside of SJU, Bryant was the best team we've played. With the guy who was tossed early in the game, I think they'll be tough in their conference;
7) Do not want season over (from fan's perspective) by early Feb; hoping for a fun season all the way though B10 tourney.

I agree with you. I thought Bryant was the best team we've played other than St John's. If their big hadn't been thrown out , this would have been a much tougher game.

 

[RUPete]

Others have said this but I agree that the one disappointment so far as been Freeman. He had a great game against St John's but since then he's forced shots , dribbled too much especially when double-teamed and just hasn't been in the flow of the offense. His forte is being around the basket , not making 15-18 ft jump shots. That being said, his role is different this year. There are more options on offense this year and Freeman needs to settle in and content himself with a lesser role on offense.

I'm not as concerned as others in this thread mainly because we have seen what he can do when he is right. I think once scouting reports get out that you have to pay more attention to Geo, it will open up things again for Freeman. He just needs to be more patient and stop forcing things. It will come.

 

[RUChoppin]

I'm not as concerned as others in this thread mainly because we have seen what he can do when he is right. I think once scouting reports get out that you have to pay more attention to Geo, it will open up things again for Freeman. He just needs to be more patient and stop forcing things. It will come.

Agree - and he may have to change his mindset a bit. Now that he has other scoring options on the team, it's not as important for him to score when he gets the ball. When he draws the double team in the post, that means there's another scoring threat open if he can get them the ball - whereas last year, it was pretty much him or Sanders.

 

[RU-ROCS]

It was a 12 point game with 7 minutes left. We finished the game on a 18-2 run.

BTW, that's exactly what good teams do! (Not saying we're good yet).

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Two things are at play here and these are my own opinions, nothing else.

A) The staff is force feeding as many minutes and scenarios for Sanders and Baker together.....I believe they will be leaned on less as we go through Florida State, at Minnesota and Michigan State....Here's why.

1) I believe the staff feels as confident that its most consistent performers are Freeman and Williams.....So I consider Freeman and Williams on a "pitch count" right now.....that means he doesn't need them to be lights out vs Bryant or Cleveland State...they could have easily been the focal point of the first games and Baker and Sanders would have had less opportunities....then we would be wondering about Sanders not playing well and comments about Baker being woefully overrated....those two things were written about last week and disappeared last night.

2) I think Freeman specifically, against better competition and a player that has been through this last year, understands that he can get baskets and shot attempts, when the team needs them....at this stage of the season however, I believe the staff is building Baker and Sanders, so they have success to lean on, when their shots aren't falling later this season....when you have a game like Sanders had last night, it's something he can point to as say "that's what we need from you".....when Baker gets 20+ like last night, there will be nights he goes 2-11 from 3....to have a 7-10 performance in your memory bank, is much more important for Sanders and Baker to have, than Freeman or Mike Williams (one can argue that Freeman and Williams are your 1st and 2nd scoring options).....and in a smaller sense, Doucoure taking foul line jumpers from 16 feet is what the defense is going to give him (not necessary what he can do against a smaller opponent like Bryant etc), the staff is allowing him to take those shots today, because he's not going to be driving, posting up and asked to score in that manner against the FSU, Minnesota and Spartan front lines.

B) The whole saga regarding Souf is not troubling, but spells out that this is a B1G roster being developed...Thiam this year (or Peter Kiss next year), are the next phase of underclassmen that will need to be brought along as the 4th or 5th options that can score in spots.

If I was coaching this team, I would go to the pantry and grab some production from Freeman and Williams when necessary while these cupcakes are on the schedule....At this time next year, the team will be looking at Shaq Carter and Montez Mathis in their places....You don't want to be in a position where you don't have Sanders, Baker, Eugene, Thiam and Doucoure without some significant success in spots this year, so we have the ability to integrate Carter and Mathis, and asking both to replace all the scoring of Freeman and Williams....the less reliant we are on the seniors (and a lesser extent Sanders) now, helps the program in the future.

For those wondering about the recruit that will be at the East Carolina game, Diego Willis, the combo guard is a scoring threat, can shoot, pass and was outstanding this past weekend in New Haven CT...... If RU can secure a verbal there, he becomes a closer clone to Geo Baker and more of a fit than Mac McClung on how we want to play, shoot and defend.....he has the clear ability to play ahead of Souf off the bench next year, while we integrate Mathis and Kiss into their roles as well.

The staff has a plan I can follow, as if I had eyes on next week and next year.....it all makes sense to me from my viewpoint.

 

[mrslate]

Not in a funk by any means. No one is enjoying being 5-0 more than me (tons are enjoying it equally). I just thought we played this game in spurts and faced a terrible opponent on a bad night. I had tons of good things to say about the Cleveland state game. Our effort there was all 40 minutes.

If that is "enjoying" you must be bunch of fun at parties. Come in off the ledge; this is Rutgers basketball.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

3. Thiam. I am sorry, but at some point we need to conclude he can't shoot

:sunglasses: