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Geo gets mugged, slapped, and bumped hard...and no foul calls?

RCBeta79

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Jun 7, 2013
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Geo gets mugged, slapped, and bumped hard...and no foul calls?

How many games does he need to play in the Big Ten to get some respect?

Your thoughts.
 
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Geo should have the ball in his hands a lot less. 5 turnover game. He makes a lot of poor decisions.
 
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There is no doubt he gets hammered and hacked a lot...BUT he will never get respect from the refs as his dribbling is not as tight as a true PG.

In the last turnover in OT he got peppered in the rib cage 3 times. Just a joke.
 
Geo should have the ball in his hands a lot less. 5 turnover game. He makes a lot of poor decisions.
Agree here to an extent... the first 2min if every half is rushed / forced causing a point swing. Hard to work out of a hole and those points are painful down the stretch.
 
My thoughts are that Geo needs to take better care of the ball - 5 TOs is unacceptable. And it was 21-17 in fouls in our favor, before we started fouling on purpose at the end. No issue with the officiating, overall. We lost because of more TOs (15-11) and poor FT shooting (13-21 vs. 19-26) and the surprising inability to stop a good young big man, who had a career night.
 
Geo should have the ball in his hands a lot less. 5 turnover game. He makes a lot of poor decisions.


Geo isn't a point guard. He dribbles into trouble...loses the ball more frequently than I'd like / sometimes makes strange non catchable passes.

With that said he needs to play.

IMO start McConnell, Mathis and Harper, EO and a Big: with Geo off the bench as the 6th man.

MO
 
Geo isn't a point guard. He dribbles into trouble...loses the ball more frequently than I'd like / sometimes makes strange non catchable passes.

With that said he needs to play.

IMO start McConnell, Mathis and Harper, EO and a Big: with Geo off the bench as the 6th man.

MO
Yeah, Geo isnt a starter on this team. What a brilliant thought.
 
My thoughts are that Geo needs to take better care of the ball - 5 TOs is unacceptable. And it was 21-17 in fouls in our favor, before we started fouling on purpose at the end. No issue with the officiating, overall. We lost because of more TOs (15-11) and poor FT shooting (13-21 vs. 19-26) and the surprising inability to stop a good young big man, who had a career night.

#s - I dont disagree but total fouls being even doesnt mean the game was reff'd well.

Illinois made every shot that mattered...and we missed too many layups and free throws. That said, the no call on Geo that lead to the flagrant 1, and the call on Eugene at the end were both backbreakers (not to mention on the first reviewed out of bounds play the black ref should have called a foul on Giorgio for literally moving Eugene out of the way).

Despite all that, we were in position to win. Argh!!!
 
My thoughts are that Geo needs to take better care of the ball - 5 TOs is unacceptable. And it was 21-17 in fouls in our favor, before we started fouling on purpose at the end. No issue with the officiating, overall. We lost because of more TOs (15-11) and poor FT shooting (13-21 vs. 19-26) and the surprising inability to stop a good young big man, who had a career night.


As an FYI, 15 turnovers isn't too bad considering Michigan State had 24 the other night at Illinois.
We missed one more free throw than they did.....
So, I don't think those stats were the major factors.

In the end, they made the shots they had to, some key calls went their way and Harper's 3 didn't drop that would have tied the game in OT.
And you're right, we had no answer for Georgi.
 
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I think the refs are not going to make the call especially if you exaggerate by snapping your head back.
 
Geo has been handling PG duties too long for too many minutes.. needs to refocus as a 2... and get some rest.
 
My favorite was when Geo took a shot to the face and lost the ball.... then Mathis got called for a flagrant on a shot to the face.

Another favorite call was when Doorson had to get a rebound with only his right hand, because his mismatched defender had latched onto his left and anchored it down.

Kiss running into a moving screen and getting called for a foul was a good one, too.

This game was a brawl - if everything had been called, both teams would have been playing managers. That played very much into Illinois' strengths and allowed them to play harrassing man defense, with tons of moving screens up top for shooters. It also let Bezhanishvili spend about 2-3 times as many minutes on the court as he should have - much like Wesson against OSU. The style of officiating didn't play into our strengths, as we needed to penetrate inside and get points amid muggings.
 
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And it was 21-17 in fouls in our favor, before we started fouling on purpose at the end. No issue with the officiating, overall.

I don’t understand how some smart people on this board equate total numbers of fouls called, with a fairly officiated game. To me, that is a simpleton approach where it’s not that hard to really watch the gameplay and develop an informed opinion.
 
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I don’t understand how some smart people on this board equate fouls called with a fairly officiated game. To me, that is a simpleton approach where it’s not that hard to really watch the gameplay and develop an informed opinion.

Bingo
Simpleton approach is amazing

Just like our women’s team. (Or MN men)
Their style of play will almost always lead to more fouls (not that they still can’t get shafted).
 
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Please, let the game breathe. Illinois outplayed us, but not by much. We played with great effort. With a little more poise and shooting touch we leave with a win. Highly entertaining and competitive game that I would not characterize as poorly officiated.
 
Please, let the game breathe. Illinois outplayed us, but not by much. We played with great effort. With a little more poise and shooting touch we leave with a win. Highly entertaining and competitive game that I would not characterize as poorly officiated.

For the most part

But Geo getting smacked in the face, causing a turnover, and no call? (Announcers even admitted it)

McConnell continuation not given, and even announcers admitted it.

Those 2 plays, in a game decided by 1 or 2 possessions, were poor officiating.
 
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The are countless individual plays to point to as "bad" calls, but the the bigger thing was the overall style of officiating. The wind was definitely at Illinois' back.

About 5-6 min into the game, I told my wife that the way it was being called didn't bode well for us. This is a team that had a strong big man with a good hook shot, and outside shooters looking to get open off of high ball screens - who also played a high pressure, aggressive style of man defense. A loose whistle is practically tailor made for a team like that.

On the flip side, we play a lot in the paint and don't have dominant bigs who can score through contact. We also rely on getting opposing bigs into foul trouble by dribble penetration, fighting over screens, and drawing charges with good footwork/positioning. We don't use a lot of high screens to get looks for shooters, either. A loose whistle doesn't help us get to the line, or get opposing players in foul trouble, or allow us to defend high screens well - and the style of play of the Illini didn't generate a ton of contact.

Given that, an "even" distribution of foul calls was always going to favor Illinois - and even if they were whistled 50% more than we were, it was *still* probably going to be in their favor, just based on style of play. I don't think a single moving screen was called all game, though there were probably close to a dozen. I don't think a single hook-and-hold was called all game, though there were 2-3 of them. Pushoffs by guards were hardly ever called - and which benefited Geo, but also their guards getting separation. Plenty of shots to players's heads, hard body contact, illegal clear outs under the basket... none called, either way.

It was clear the refs were going to "let them play" from very early on, and that was not going to favor us in the long run - even though we managed to shoot *way* better than we usually do, including plenty of highlight shots and passes, to keep the game close throughout. (Though there was one stretch where the refs called a series of ticky tack touch fouls on Illinois, which was inconsistent with the rest of the game - possibly to try to even out the foul count in the second half)

Giorgi probably committed 12 fouls in a tightly called game, but only ended up with 3 (and complained about every one). Does he go off for 35 in a game that has a tighter whistle? Of course not, because he'd have only seen about 15 minutes on the floor. This was a lot like the OSU game where Wesson had a career night and a very favorable whistle.

This wasn't "biased" officiating - it was just a style of officiating that didn't favor us at all in this matchup, that had a few particularly bad calls that didn't go our way. For as well as we played, really felt like we just couldn't overcome those headwinds to get ahead of both the Illini and the whistle.

This is also the kind of officiating the women's team would kill for, fwiw.
 
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I don’t understand how some smart people on this board equate total numbers of fouls called, with a fairly officiated game. To me, that is a simpleton approach where it’s not that hard to really watch the gameplay and develop an informed opinion.
It also makes it seem all fouls are created equal which is another ridiculous thought process. Some foul calls are much bigger than others and can completely changes the game bc of momentum or putting someone in foul trouble... Or savings someone from foul trouble...

Geo gets bumped allllllll the time with no calls. I wonder if him trying to exaggerate the contact is making refs actually NOT give him the call
 
There was an interesting article by someone on the Illini side who was sitting near the bench. He broke the game down minute by minute. Underwood, he said, kept working the refs saying Geo pushes off every play. Meanwhile, Pikiell was talking about other players putting hands on (I think, I read it this morning) Geo. So perhaps the refs decided that instead of calling everything, they just would put their whistle away unless it was egregious.

https://illiniboard.com/story/2019/2/10/moments/
 
to me the call of the night was when the ref was 5 feet away as EO was dribbling out of corner and dribbled off giorgi's foot. the ref initially gave the ball to illinois then went to the monitor. i just dont understand how you can be 5 feet away staring at the guy with the ball and his defender and not see that.
 
Geo gets mugged, slapped, and bumped hard...and no foul calls?

How many games does he need to play in the Big Ten to get some respect?

Your thoughts.
He needs to not lose control every time he gets a little bump.
 
We didn’t lose the game because of the refs

We lost the game because we didn’t D up nearly enough

I think part of it was toughness. You have to fight harder over moving screens, battle harder under the basket when you're getting grabbed/pulled, and work harder when you're not going to draw a charge. The refs weren't bailing anyone out, and I felt the Illini took better advantage of the loose whistle than we did.

As an example - Geo wasn't going to "sell" any fouls with a head fake, and Omoruyi was going to have a hard time getting that charge (on three good attempts, it went 2/1 block/charge against him). Our bigs also struggled to finish through contact - whereas Giorgi's hook shot isn't bothered by contact as much.

We need to get to the line. In conference games that we got to the line at least 20 times per 40 min, we're 4-2. In games like Illinois where we get to the line less than 20 times/40 min, we're 0-8.
 
PG's in the hoop of today will likely fight through a high ball screen 30 times a game.
 
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Bingo
Simpleton approach is amazing

Just like our women’s team. (Or MN men)
Their style of play will almost always lead to more fouls (not that they still can’t get shafted).

I think that is using CVS's rep of the 55 defense.. which they don't use much anymore. Plenty of times the ladies actually foul less but get called more. You can look at points-in-paint compared to free-throws. You can look at which team has a lead that the other team is trying to erase. The womens team routinely shows aberrations to the foul call discrepancy logic that holds:

- teams driving to hoop get more foul calls
- teams with higher rank against unranked teams get more foul calls
- teams with HoF coaches get more foul calls
- teams with the lead get more foul calls as team behind presses to catch up
 
I think that is using CVS's rep of the 55 defense.. which they don't use much anymore. Plenty of times the ladies actually foul less but get called more. You can look at points-in-paint compared to free-throws. You can look at which team has a lead that the other team is trying to erase. The womens team routinely shows aberrations to the foul call discrepancy logic that holds:

- teams driving to hoop get more foul calls
- teams with higher rank against unranked teams get more foul calls
- teams with HoF coaches get more foul calls
- teams with the lead get more foul calls as team behind presses to catch up

First off, women's officiating is garbage, so it's hard to see much of any logic there at all.

Second, the women's team has long had a reputation of being very aggressive defenders that challenge everything - and we've been on the heavy end of the whistle for it as far back as I can remember.
 
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