Yet, Louisville, Purdue, UConn, Oregon and others all want him. but, what the hell, let's pass because FIG does not want him...lol
Grad transfer - Joseph Chartouny
- Thread starter ouchmyknee
- Start date
Yet, Louisville, Purdue, UConn, Oregon and others all want him. but, what the hell, let's pass because FIG does not want him...lol
It is unfair to judge Williams.
If you knew what he was like in HS, you would have seen what the expectations should have been. He was a confident spot shooter. The kind of shooting that doesn't always translate to D1.
Mike exceeded himself here. What an awesome thing it was to watch. Let it be known as well that Williams was no taller than 6 0. Gave it all he had.
Keep pushing, #5.
If you knew what he was like in HS, you would have seen what the expectations should have been. He was a confident spot shooter. The kind of shooting that doesn't always translate to D1.
Mike exceeded himself here. What an awesome thing it was to watch. Let it be known as well that Williams was no taller than 6 0. Gave it all he had.
Keep pushing, #5.
At this late date in recruiting Rutgers options are slim as to attracting real difference makers.The focus should be on filling position needs like point guard where a grad transfer can provide 10-15 minutes of somewhat productive performance off the bench.
Would bridge the gap to landing Mulcahy in 2019
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How many of those schools actually offered him? Being contacted by a coach is totally different than being offered a position.
I think when you are contacting a grad transfer, that probably means they want him...... unless you think they are contacting him because they have no interest...lol
They could have interest in multiple grad transfers, does not mean he is on the top of their lists.
I like him as an addition.
Or theoretically
1. They returned his request for contact
2. Doing a favor to him or his handler to make him seem better
3. See if he'd be a backup if a Carsen Edwards or others leaves
There is nothing further from the truth that this.....There is 100% wrong information based on this.....here's why.
A) Teams that used to get all the best remaining or under-recruited prospects that were HS seniors right now that were unsigned, would all focus all of their energy on a Tai Strickland type of player OR a Caleb McConnell.....or the numerous JUCO prospects that in past years would be securing 10-12 offers.
B) Teams that are filling in their gaps with the best players on bad teams like Fordham, are able to do so AND not commit any real recruiting resources for HS and JUCO kids....
C) All those extra players as 1 year rentals, floods the market.....Who capitalizes on the fact that all of these Grad Transfers are out there?? The programs that now have a better chance at the 2 year JUCO or the 4 year late-bloomer.
D) It is a players market....the player in most cases will pick a school for either quality playing time OR a chance for the NCAAs.....the kid that picks the NCAA caliber team, isn't guaranteed playing time, he's glad to be there and along for the ride.....he maybe buys a year for the freshman that isn't quite ready to play on that roster....Win-win for the NCAA program.
It's also a win for the rebuilding program....where it becomes a LOSS for the rebuilding program is when you have a 15PPG player that you redshirted/developed and you don't have a grad school opportunity for that 5th year player....So there are kids that have transferred once already (like a Nigel Johnson), who spend 1 year redshirting and 1 year playing for their new school....by their 5th year, they have graduated and can leave for UVA.....
RU invested 2 years in that sit out transfer and only gets one year of play out of the player.....if you take a grad transfer, you fill a 'ship, and he cycles right off your rotation the following spring....
To summarize, I hope RU can land a grad transfer, but I'm honestly not excited about it....the real opportunity is to find a legitimate 4 year player AND perhaps a JUCO...if a grad transfer falls into your lap, great....BUT I would be leery about having a grad transfer absorbing minutes that I could dedicate to a 1st year freshman like Geo Baker and Montez Mathis.
I guess the question is, would RU have been better off this past season with Nigel Johnson AND Geo Baker playing significantly less minutes for this coming season.....
OR
Would RU be better off letting Mathis play 28-30 minutes (assuming he earns those minutes) or having those minutes cut to 16-18 per night, because you have a grad transfer playing ahead of him??....
The goal is to get experience early for the freshman, so they can accelerate their growth....I seriously doubt RU would be better next year, if Baker didn't take his lumps and finish up strong at MSG, if Nigel Johnson was here.
RU isn't going to the NCAA's next year, so I don't see a drastic difference in playing a 1 year rental, unless the position doesn't have a starter in place.....I would be OK with a grad transfer at guard to replace Sanders, but I'd rather see Mathis play much more than a grad transfer, even if it cost me a game or two this coming season....
Never really thought about point C, but it makes a lot of sense.
Agree with 80-100% of what you say.....
Let's keep in mind, until we have the rebuild complete, every player we pick up always has question marks.
1. 4 year guy signed early heavily recruited-----why did this guy pick RU when his "stars" say he could do better
2. 4 year guy signed early lightly recruited------how can we get ahead recruiting under the radar types
3. 4 year guy signed late-----why was this guy still on the board
4. traditional transfer----why did he leave AND lose a year AND becomes a grad transfer candidate in future
5. grad transfer---why would he come here? not going to NCAAs, is he just looking for PT and #s
6. JUCO----why couldn't he get in school as a HS senior, is he a possible problem
It's about identifying why the stigmas aren't true for the given player.
#1 seems like the right way to go, BUT something tells me #2 and a little bit from the other is the way to go. Prefer going light or staying home on 5 and 6.
Agree with 80-100% of what you say.....
Let's keep in mind, until we have the rebuild complete, every player we pick up always has question marks.
1. 4 year guy signed early heavily recruited-----why did this guy pick RU when his "stars" say he could do better
2. 4 year guy signed early lightly recruited------how can we get ahead recruiting under the radar types
3. 4 year guy signed late-----why was this guy still on the board
4. traditional transfer----why did he leave AND lose a year AND becomes a grad transfer candidate in future
5. grad transfer---why would he come here? not going to NCAAs, is he just looking for PT and #s
6. JUCO----why couldn't he get in school as a HS senior, is he a possible problem
It's about identifying why the stigmas aren't true for the given player.
#1 seems like the right way to go, BUT something tells me #2 and a little bit from the other is the way to go. Prefer going light or staying home on 5 and 6.
I think in the college hoop world of today you build the best roster you can on a year to year basis.
700 transfers annually and kids leaving early dictate that IMO.
700 transfers annually and kids leaving early dictate that IMO.
I disagree. The goal is NOT to get experience early for the freshman. The goal always has to be to win games. You don't need to play 30 minutes a night as a freshman to develop your game. I'd rather have Mathis play 20 minutes per night instead of 30 if we had another option on the roster that makes us more competitive. Geo was really dragging in the second half of the season, playing so many minutes because we had no other choice. That didn't help him and it didn't help the team. The more wins and the more competitive we are, the better recruiting story the coaches have to pitch to recruits and better recruiting is the only way the program is going to progress long term. Our schedule is a lot tougher next year so the record could be really ugly if we don't plug up some roster holes (we are paper thin in the backcourt right now). If that takes plugging in a stop gap guy here and there, then do it. In the college basketball today there are no guarantees that any "4 year player" you sign will actually last more than a year or two either so if we sign a grad transfer to fill a need and not clog up a roster spot for years to come, there are no negatives IMO.
Also, Mathis may not be a lights out shooter but he was a four-star high school recruit and those types of highly rated high school talents are largely not available in the Spring. The Fall is for recruiting the high school studs. The Spring is for filling in short term gaps. At least that's the way I see it.
Another thing. Development also comes with competing in practice against and with talented players. If Mathis is pushed in practice and has to earn playing time that will help him and the team in the long term too.
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Hawk, ideally I would agree. But the problem is Pikiell has to try to at the very least tread water with the final record and on court competitiveness in year 3. Nobody outside the program cares about the trajectory or that year 4 looks good on paper at this point, they only look at results, and Pikiell needs to win all the games he can at this juncture. Need to convince those final pieces of the puzzle in year 4 and beyond to join up.
Keep in mind, the 2019 kids will be signed before Year 3 starts in November 2018.....that means your roster for Year 4 , the kids replacing Doorson and or another spot, is essentially completed, before season or Year 3 starts.........It is a non-starter to try and squeeze an extra win by not planning or looking at this as a 2 year process starting in November....it's possible that we see a defection after this season that opens up a spot, but I don't see the value of having Mathis play less minutes than a grad transfer.....and to be fair, it's almost certain that a grad transfer would be better than Mathis and earn those minutes..
To ColonelRutgers, you are correct (kinda) on Baker....but the point is, Baker got sick and that contributed more to his end of season slump....all frosh hit the freshman "wall" and Ideally he plays maybe 6 less minutes a night....on the other hand, most starters at most schools play 28-30 minutes anyway....34-35 isn't ideal, so my ideal grad transfer isn't logging 30 minutes here, after logging 33+ minutes elsewhere....
I would almost prefer a situation with a Bandoo type of JUCO that likely shoots better from 3 than Sanders and isn't clogging up minutes ahead of Mathis or Kiss....I am viewing "Year 3" as year 1....meaning we have 7-8 new players all thrown into the mix and I'm hoping that everyone improves from Year 1 to Year 2 in 2019-2020, with the addition of upgrades in talent again for the 2019 class.
As much as people want the shortcut of another 2 wins this coming season with a grad transfer, fine....I'm on board to win as much as possible.....if Mathis and the rest of the players all get the experience that Baker captured, where they get to develop the ownership aspect of the program improving, then it's a win-win.
I would prefer a Marques Townes type of guard that plays with that heart and fire, if given a choice....nothing against the Fordham player at all and that's assuming a Townes would even leave Loyola Chicago.
Not to belabor the point but Geo had hit the wall well before he got the flu the last week of the season. We could see it for ourselves, but Pikiell even referenced that Baker was a bit worn out in Court Club meetings earlier in the season.
I guess I have higher hopes and expectations for Mathis. I would be very disappointed if he's not good enough to get more minutes than some grad transfer we pull in now. He's supposed to be the jewel of this class so, even as a freshman, I expect him to step in and be a core member of this team and get quality time. In any case, we are in desperate need for offense so I see no downside in bringing in anyone that can put the ball in the basket and take the ball handling load off the likes of Baker so they will be fresher.
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If we could use 2 out the three ships and sign McConnell and either Bandoo, Townes or this Fordham grad transfer, that would be something.
I might prefer McConnell and one of the two grad transfers and go with 12 scholarship players for 2018 unless two grad transfers come and then I would take both. That would leave 3 open ships for 2019 and we could go hard after Hyatt, massoud and Mulcahy. Or find another big?
I might prefer McConnell and one of the two grad transfers and go with 12 scholarship players for 2018 unless two grad transfers come and then I would take both. That would leave 3 open ships for 2019 and we could go hard after Hyatt, massoud and Mulcahy. Or find another big?
I can see your points, especially with getting experience to the younger players, but the last two years the wins haven't been there. The wins need to arrive sooner than later in order to attract the better 4 year players from the get go. If not schools will negatively recruit on us with facts that will be undisputable.
Being a former player and coach I can tell you that you go for whatever player fits your needs and can get you wins regardless if they are JUCO, 4-year player, transfer, or grad transfer. If Mathis' minutes were cut to 16-18 per night then that tells me he wasn't as good as advertised, he has not adapted to college-level ball, or we hit it big with a grad transfer that had some experience and somehow elevated his game over the last year and we got a steal. He will get his turn the next year...that's what competition is all about. Mathis could also be recruited over the following year by a better player or transfer out for a plethora of rasons. I am of the opinion you take the best player now for your needs.
This late in the year you do not have the better 4 year players left and those that are, wait for the Duke's of the world or teams that can show them that they will be relied upon the following year on a team that will be dancing next year. I think getting someone with experience (JUCO or grad transfer) is the way to go for this year, especially now that Corey is gone.
2015-2016 7-25 1-17 - last in B10 EJ's last season
2016-2017 15-18 3-15 - last in B10 won a game in B10 Tourney (an improvement over Jordan)
2017-2018 15-19 3-15 - last in B10 won two games in B10 Tourney
If we can get to 18 wins next year and win 5 conference games that is going to really help with
getting better players to commit and we may not have to rely on a grad transfer.
It will be difficult to win 18 games next year if we only win 5 in conference. We only have 11 OOC games next season so if we went 11-0 in OOC and 5-15 in the BIG we would only be 16-15 in the regular season. Remember we play 20 in conference games next season. It will be difficult to go 11-0 in OOC next year as we will have a much tougher schedule there and at least 4 road games. If that ever happened the only way to get to 18 wins would be to win at least 2 games in the BIG 10 tournament if we only win 5 games in conference. We really need to win over 5 BIG games and probably at least 7 to have a winning season.
I will state again, the win total matters...what the win total in 2018-19 will not do is impact 2019 recruiting....that recruiting will be done and players signed before this coming season starts....
It has nothing to do with impacting recruiting...and has nothing to do with Mathis not being better than a grad transfer...there is some benefit to bringing one in, but fans thinking this coming season impacts 19 recruiting is wrong....
The reasons why the 1st 2 years were more important is to show that RU could improve and to get a Mathis etc here....that happened because year 1 closed with some momentum with a couple of wins late vs Illinois and then Ohio State....one of those games Mathis attended, vs i believe Ohio State in the B1G tourney.
Fast forward to MSG...after a bad ending vs Illinois, RU makes a splash at MSG by winning 2 big games and a entertaining 3rd vs Purdue in defeat....that end impacts what hopefully turns into filling these 4.recruiting spots between now and Fall Signing period.
So again, a grad transfer is fine and i am all for finishing better than 14th and being over .500 this year....but to connect that impacting 2019 would not happen...2020 maybe but 2020 recruits are going to see what players we have doing well from 2017 & 2018's class, along with whose signed and ready to arrive in summer of 2019...
Not signing a grad transfer now isnt the end of the world...would be nice, but not a woe is me situation...let the grad transfers that haven't made the dance, chase that goal if they want...a grad guy here would need to be a unique CJ Gettys type of player that buys in 100%, and wants to be part of helping.continue the culture change AND not being a "me-first" player....i am fine if thats a front court Small Forward or Power Forward, not necessarily at SG...
It has nothing to do with impacting recruiting...and has nothing to do with Mathis not being better than a grad transfer...there is some benefit to bringing one in, but fans thinking this coming season impacts 19 recruiting is wrong....
The reasons why the 1st 2 years were more important is to show that RU could improve and to get a Mathis etc here....that happened because year 1 closed with some momentum with a couple of wins late vs Illinois and then Ohio State....one of those games Mathis attended, vs i believe Ohio State in the B1G tourney.
Fast forward to MSG...after a bad ending vs Illinois, RU makes a splash at MSG by winning 2 big games and a entertaining 3rd vs Purdue in defeat....that end impacts what hopefully turns into filling these 4.recruiting spots between now and Fall Signing period.
So again, a grad transfer is fine and i am all for finishing better than 14th and being over .500 this year....but to connect that impacting 2019 would not happen...2020 maybe but 2020 recruits are going to see what players we have doing well from 2017 & 2018's class, along with whose signed and ready to arrive in summer of 2019...
Not signing a grad transfer now isnt the end of the world...would be nice, but not a woe is me situation...let the grad transfers that haven't made the dance, chase that goal if they want...a grad guy here would need to be a unique CJ Gettys type of player that buys in 100%, and wants to be part of helping.continue the culture change AND not being a "me-first" player....i am fine if thats a front court Small Forward or Power Forward, not necessarily at SG...
Winning improves perception which then translates into a few higher level recruits choosing Rutgers as a destination school.Its a process like climbing a ladder where reaching the top step is the goal.Rutgers has been stuck on the bottom steps and frequently has taken missteps in recruiting simply because they were the only players willing to come.
Who was arguing it would impact 2019 recruiting? The Fall signing period is where it's at and that is in November.
We won one game at B10 tourney, followed that with two, next year is three....progression lol
Plus the 5 in conference
Then 10 out of 11 OOC games.
That's 18 total....or has new math changed the addition.....roflmao
That is possible but next year we will not have The BIG Tournament in MSG. If that happened we would be 15-16 after the regular season and 18-17 overall. I would take that right now. This would be difficult as we have Massachusetts, Seton Hall & Fordham all on the road next year in OOC. We also will have an ACC team on the road in the ACC-Big Challenge. We will probably get a Big East team at home in the Gavitt games. I would love 10-1. No one is a bigger supporter of Steve Pikiell than I am. I believe things are constantly improving.
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