Herb Hand

[rutgersdave]

Disagree regarding Franklin. Most reasonable PSU fans know next year's team will have a rookie QB, an OL still in flux, and a defense replacing three NFL linemen. Not to mention, it would be outside of the norm for PSU to fire a coach after only three years. Personally, I'd like to see us go 8-4 next season and come loaded for bear in 2017 when we'll have a very talented and generally experienced roster, but I realize a 6-6 season is certainly possible. If we're having discussions like this after the 2017 season, then it's time to talk about moving on from Franklin. Not now. You have a faction of the fan base that thinks the rebuilding process should have accelerated once the sanctions were removed, but the reality is the effects of the sanctions continue to linger. Hopefully guys like Bates, Gonzalez and maybe even McGovern can contribute up front by the middle of next season, but you're still talking about three freshmen in the interior of your offensive line. The prove-it year for this staff will be 2017.

I reviewed your 2017 schedule since so many Penn State fans kept on saying wait till 2017. PEnn State has a real hard schedule in 2017, and even if you improve, you might go 6-6. 50% chance against Pittsburgh, NW, Iowa, Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers and Indiana which translates to 3 losses and add the 3 losses to the Big Three Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State equals 6 losses.

It's just not easy in the Big Ten East, maybe why your DC left.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

That's a lot of movement. Franklin maybe, just maybe has something to do with it. I don't see things going well at psu in the next couple years. Think they'll bring in the Temple coach at end of 2017 season.

A lot of movement for a typical Penn State? Yes. For the rest of college football? No.

I reviewed your 2017 schedule since so many Penn State fans kept on saying wait till 2017. PEnn State has a real hard schedule in 2017, and even if you improve, you might go 6-6. 50% chance against Pittsburgh, NW, Iowa, Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers and Indiana which translates to 3 losses and add the 3 losses to the Big Three Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State equals 6 losses.

It's just not easy in the Big Ten East, maybe why your DC left.

The expectations for 2017 are based on elite recruiting at virtually every position. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but the roster should be talented enough at that point for PSU to win 10 games and return to the point where games against Indiana, Maryland, etc. are again considered certain victories. If things play out as you said, Franklin will certainly be fired.

 

[buffalochicken21]

Guys, the Pedophile program will be just fine. In fact guys quitting on their boss left and right in this case is really a good thing. They're just scared of the success that is a god given right of the Ped State football team. Nothing bad ever happens there. And if it does it's OK, because well, sanctions, and BOB didn't recruit OL, and the people who committed heinous acts aren't even there anymore. They totally deserve to be playing college football there, because it's the most important thing in the world and it's a gift to all of us.

Don't worry, some more Creepy Valley fans will be on this opposing team's board quick to tell us how good of a thing this all is. And how 10 win seasons will soon be guaranteed over a program as lowly as ours. Tell us Pedd State fans, tell us!

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Haha. If you'd like to spin Shoop and Hand leaving for other jobs to mean the downfall of James Franklin, feel free. But it doesn't make you right.

 

[Queztastic]

A lot of movement for a typical Penn State? Yes. For the rest of college football? No.

The expectations for 2017 are based on elite recruiting at virtually every position. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but the roster should be talented enough at that point for PSU to win 10 games and return to the point where games against Indiana, Maryland, etc. are again considered certain victories. If things play out as you said, Franklin will certainly be fired.

What are the expectations for PSU for 2016? Two early games vs Temple & Pitt will be interesting. I could see you guys going 8-4 with your schedule, but I could also see you going 6-6. Just curious as to what the expectations are for 2016 before we get to the 2017 expectations.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Is it true Hand is leaving 'cause Franklin thinks his wife isn't hot enough?

 

[lyndj]

Is it true Hand is leaving 'cause Franklin thinks his wife isn't hot enough?

Hand's wife is actually nice looking:) Hand and Malzahn are very close friends. Hand already turned down a job last week so this is probably one he was waiting for to open though I'm sure he would have preferred to be an OC there. But that HC seat is already hot and will be spouting flames if they don't win more games. While PSU fans are impatient, his seat is no where near hot yet and at 4 mil I don't think they plan to pay any kind of buyout anytime soon. He's got two years.

 

[Abro1975]

 

[kjb32812]

What are the expectations for PSU for 2016? Two early games vs Temple & Pitt will be interesting. I could see you guys going 8-4 with your schedule, but I could also see you going 6-6. Just curious as to what the expectations are for 2016 before we get to the 2017 expectations.

Again, depends on who you ask.

• New QB but one who is probably better suited to what Moorhead likes to do
• Extra year of experience for a WR group this is decent. Godwin is really good. In addition, the addition of two kids who RS this year and have been reported to be pretty good.
• The addition of two TEs who may be able to block AND catch. At the same time, AB is done and that hurts.
• An OL that will now have some three kids who have now started for three seasons. Moorhead has also said he would like to utilize a different blocking scheme than those used the past two years. The OL should also have considerably more depth than the past two years.
• The addition of Miles Sanders. Before you say he is unproven and only will be a Fr, I don't care. Kid is electric and Moorhead will find a way to use him IMO. Add that to Barkely and Robinson (coming off RS) and that's a solid group.
• DL will most likely step back and have a lack of depth. Biggest concern IMO...bigger than a new QB.
• LBers will be better and much deeper than this past season. Worst overall LB play I can remember. Kids were playing who simply weren't ready.
• CBs will be better and deeper. Safeties will not.

I think we are better than both Temple and Pitt next year. We lose the obvious three (OSU is at home though) and then probably drop two more.

I think we should win 7 or 8 games but some think we will not eclipse six next season. I am putting a lot of faith in Moorhead being able to come in and find a way to get our athletes in space. We have them, he just needs to figure it out.

I was done with excuses this year and am more than done next year. Others say they won't be until 2017.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

What are the expectations for PSU for 2016? Two early games vs Temple & Pitt will be interesting. I could see you guys going 8-4 with your schedule, but I could also see you going 6-6. Just curious as to what the expectations are for 2016 before we get to the 2017 expectations.

I think you're right on the money in the 6-6 to 8-4 range. Let's break the 2016 schedule down into chunks...

Noncon: Kent State, at Pittsburgh, vs Temple
- All of these games are winnable, but given the fact that PSU will be breaking in a rookie quarterback and a new offense, let's call it 2-1.

Away: Michigan, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers
- Mark down a L at the Big House, as I think Michigan is the preseason favorite to win the B1G next season. PSU should be favored in the other three games.

Home: Minnesota, Maryland, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan State
- The overall talent increase on our roster, combined with the losses at Ohio State and Michigan State, as well as the advantage of playing at Beaver Stadium, should be enough to beat one of OSU/Iowa/MSU, giving Franklin that big win you all want him to have.

So I have PSU at 8-4 right now, but if things break right I do think 9-3 is possible. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[PSUPALY]

I think you're right on the money in the 6-6 to 8-4 range. Let's break the 2016 schedule down into chunks...

Noncon: Kent State, at Pittsburgh, vs Temple
- All of these games are winnable, but given the fact that PSU will be breaking in a rookie quarterback and a new offense, let's call it 2-1.

Away: Michigan, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers
- Mark down a L at the Big House, as I think Michigan is the preseason favorite to win the B1G next season. PSU should be favored in the other three games.

Home: Minnesota, Maryland, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan State
- The overall talent increase on our roster, combined with the losses at Ohio State and Michigan State, as well as the advantage of playing at Beaver Stadium, should be enough to beat one of OSU/Iowa/MSU, giving Franklin that big win you all want him to have.

So I have PSU at 8-4 right now, but if things break right I do think 9-3 is possible. Unlikely, but possible.

8 wins?....that's just way too optimistic....be more prepared for 6-6

Again, depends on who you ask.

• New QB but one who is probably better suited to what Moorhead likes to do
• Extra year of experience for a WR group this is decent. Godwin is really good. In addition, the addition of two kids who RS this year and have been reported to be pretty good.
• The addition of two TEs who may be able to block AND catch. At the same time, AB is done and that hurts.
• An OL that will now have some three kids who have now started for three seasons. Moorhead has also said he would like to utilize a different blocking scheme than those used the past two years. The OL should also have considerably more depth than the past two years.
• The addition of Miles Sanders. Before you say he is unproven and only will be a Fr, I don't care. Kid is electric and Moorhead will find a way to use him IMO. Add that to Barkely and Robinson (coming off RS) and that's a solid group.
• DL will most likely step back and have a lack of depth. Biggest concern IMO...bigger than a new QB.
• LBers will be better and much deeper than this past season. Worst overall LB play I can remember. Kids were playing who simply weren't ready.
• CBs will be better and deeper. Safeties will not.

I think we are better than both Temple and Pitt next year. We lose the obvious three (OSU is at home though) and then probably drop two more.

I think we should win 7 or 8 games but some think we will not eclipse six next season. I am putting a lot of faith in Moorhead being able to come in and find a way to get our athletes in space. We have them, he just needs to figure it out.

I was done with excuses this year and am more than done next year. Others say they won't be until 2017.

you forgot to mention we'll finally have a punter next year....that's huge. Not sure if Nordin will stick w/his commitment, but it looks like we found a kicker in Tyler Davis at the end of the year, so less concerned w/K. Also, another year of overall Special Teams talent added which is extremely important. ST went from dreadful in '13-'14 to below average in '15.

like you, KJB...I think i was a little naive on how much the sanctions still affected this roster in '15 (or bad coaching, still not sure)...so, "the year" to get excited about used to be '16, but now appears to be '17.

excuses are running thin, indeed.

obviously, we lose at Pitt combined with...let's say a 6-6 record....with games looking like we're still unprepared.....yeah, Franklin's done.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

8 wins?....that's just way too optimistic....be more prepared for 6-6

Admittedly, I tend to be on the optimistic side. However, Penn State can lose to Ohio State, Iowa and Michigan State, and still get to 8-4. Even considering the new QB and offensive system, I don't think it's outrageous to think we can beat Kent State, Pitt, Temple, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Minnesota and Maryland; in fact, PSU could easily be favored to win each of those games. I obviously come down on the side that McSorely/Moorhead is a net positive over Hack/Donovan, the OL is improved especially as some of the younger guys step in, and the defense doesn't regress quite as much as people think.

 

[PSUPALY]

Admittedly, I tend to be on the optimistic side. However, Penn State can lose to Ohio State, Iowa and Michigan State, and still get to 8-4. Even considering the new QB and offensive system, I don't think it's outrageous to think we can beat Kent State, Pitt, Temple, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Minnesota and Maryland; in fact, PSU could easily be favored to win each of those games. I obviously come down on the side that McSorely/Moorhead is a net positive over Hack/Donovan, the OL is improved especially as some of the younger guys step in, and the defense doesn't regress quite as much as people think.

I hope you're right, but I just don't see it. that being said, it's January.

i guess we're relying heavily on Moorhead to flip the script on our offensive woes.....he sure has a lot weapons at his disposal, so we'll see. I know McSorely lead a valiant comeback effort against Georgia, but I'm not sure i saw enough (yet) to lead me to be convinced he can carry the weight....plus, he's quite small, worried about him getting hurt. I like him, don't get me wrong. gosh, for all i know, Stevens beats him out in spring practice. we'll see. i mean, we definitely have some young talented QBs coming in....but we're talking about 2016 performance. again, hopefully Moorhead's the genius we're all hoping for.....OL still has to block someone at some point;)

we're going to be soft as jello up the middle of our defense. I get the back 7 will be much deeper and lot more experienced, and we'll have a ton of young talented speed rushers at DE, but our overall run defense is going to be....bad. hope i'm wrong

plus, our MVP next year (outside of Barkley) might be a freshmen punter.

 

[rutgersdave]

Admittedly, I tend to be on the optimistic side. However, Penn State can lose to Ohio State, Iowa and Michigan State, and still get to 8-4. Even considering the new QB and offensive system, I don't think it's outrageous to think we can beat Kent State, Pitt, Temple, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Minnesota and Maryland; in fact, PSU could easily be favored to win each of those games. I obviously come down on the side that McSorely/Moorhead is a net positive over Hack/Donovan, the OL is improved especially as some of the younger guys step in, and the defense doesn't regress quite as much as people think.

If everything is perfect, you go 8-4 but most seasons it's not perfect so 6 or 7 is most likely the outcome. The 2017 season, I expect the same since the schedule is more difficult.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

If everything is perfect, PSU goes 12-0. Ha. Seriously, though, if EVERYTHING breaks right, a double-digit win total isn't out of the question (3-0 nonconference, 3-1 on the road, 4-1 at home). Sounds crazy, and I certainly won't predict it because it's unlikely, but it also would have been crazy to predict PSU's 2005 record coming off two horrible seasons.

Considering the challenges, primarily the lack of experience at DT and a still-developing OL, a 7-5/8-4 type season appears to be the most likely outcome as of January 12, IMO. I'd be disappointed in a 6-6 finish. It's probably not enough to get Franklin fired - I think he gets 2017 regardless - but he would be hearing it big-time under that scenario.

 

[PSUPALY]

If everything is perfect, PSU goes 12-0. Ha. Seriously, though, if EVERYTHING breaks right, a double-digit win total isn't out of the question (3-0 nonconference, 3-1 on the road, 4-1 at home). Sounds crazy, and I certainly won't predict it because it's unlikely, but it also would have been crazy to predict PSU's 2005 record coming off two horrible seasons.

Considering the challenges, primarily the lack of experience at DT and a still-developing OL, a 7-5/8-4 type season appears to be the most likely outcome as of January 12, IMO. I'd be disappointed in a 6-6 finish. It's probably not enough to get Franklin fired - I think he gets 2017 regardless - but he would be hearing it big-time under that scenario.

2005 season?....now you're talking about one of my favorite PSU teams.....and not a good comparison whatsoever, sorry. 04 team only won 4 games, but our defense was great, Z Mills was still inexcusably running the show at QB, and we didn't have the freshmen phenoms in yet. the 05 team, with M-Rob at QB (5th yr Senior), 4 good Sr OL w/Levi Brown as a Jr, Tony Hunt at RB, and the Freshmen 4 at WR, and our very experienced, talented defense...including T Hali, J Alford, Poz, D Connor, T Shaw, A Zemaitis, C Lowrey?.....sorry, just not a good comparison.......again, the 05 team was 1 sec away from being undefeated. I'll also add...we had Jay Paterno calling the plays;)

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

I recall that season fondly as well. My senior year. Can't believe it was 10 years ago. I wasn't trying to compare the '16 team to the '05 team, just pointing out that surprises can, and do, happen. For the record, I'd take Barkley/Sanders and this group of WR over Hunt/Scott and Williams/Butler/Norwood, but you're absolutely correct about Michael Robinson and the defense.

 

[PSUPALY]

I recall that season fondly as well. My senior year. Can't believe it was 10 years ago. I wasn't trying to compare the '16 team to the '05 team, just pointing out that surprises can, and do, happen. For the record, I'd take Barkley/Sanders and this group of WR over Hunt/Scott and Williams/Butler/Norwood, but you're absolutely correct about Michael Robinson and the defense.

an absolute glorious season

well, the expectations were low that year from the "pundits", i'll give you that....

 

[mean15]

He is one of Penn State better recruiter.

And one of the worst coaches....

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

KJB, Hodges yup... How about the two current LB's from Jersey? Hurts to watch. Even after all these years it still causes me great agita.

 

[rutgersdave]

Reeder, RS linebacker, starter for 11 games transferring to Delaware, would have been their fourth LB next year with returning injured player. Another defensive RS player who played in 2015 also transferring out of Penn State. Is something wrong over there?

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Homesick. Little brother just committed to Delaware.

You are correct that this move hurts our LB depth.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

What depth? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: