How do we avoid being Kentucky next year?

[G- RUnit]

Pike gets credit for JY and Mulcahy developing. Myles too.

Certainly gets credit for Cam developing so much that the defending National Champions wanted him.

Oskar has provided serviceable minutes.

Derek’s shot left him but every other facet of his game improved.

While Cliff never really developed a jumper end of the year he was going to his left.

Without Mags for much of the year we still developed into the 4th best in the country, much of it because of Simpson and Cliff.

I think it’s important to note that JY and Paul weren’t as good at Oregon and Washington respectively as they were for RU. Pike’s credit!!

 

[darkcheck]

Pike gets credit for JY and Mulcahy developing. Myles too.

Neither of them were as good at Oregon and Washington respectively as they were for RU.

Fair on the OR and WA points but JY was a similar player that he was for RU going into Texas. He wasn’t exactly a schlub transferring here.

But my JY point was he wasn’t here two years ago. He left March 2021.

 

[RUChoppin]

Don’t toss JY in there, he was done at Rutgers 3 years ago not 2. Love Geo and RHJ, they really did blossom under Pike. But that’s it to me really.

MCConnel did, defensively. He was an awesome defender. But his offensive game really never developed. Paul, while I wish he never left, many on here were complaining was the same player leaving as he was coming in. Same with Cliff. Pike didn’t develop Cam, he left the same he came in and was a one year player. And Oskar, while a great teammate, didn’t improve as a player. Derek and Wolf didn’t slump, the regressed. That’s anti developed.

Listen, I dont want Pike to go anywhere. And I love the guys who wear scarlet, but to just give Pike the label forever of great developer of talent isn’t accurate. He was. I hope he is again. I believe he will be. But it’s been a couple years for him. Agree to disagree with you. Have a good weekend!

2 years ago: Baker and Harper - both saw considerable development over their time at Rutgers.

1 year ago: McConnell had significant improvement from his freshman year, especially defensively, but also from a ball handling/distribution perspective (his ast/tov was much better than when he arrived). Mulcahy also showed significant improvement in most categories from his underclassman to upperclassman years, not the least of which in floor leadership that doesn't show in the box score. Spencer improved over the course of the year, too, adjusting to a big step up in competition from Loyala-MD.

This year: Omoruyi is a much better player than he was when he walked in the door, as was Oskar. Really seems like you have no memory of what they were like as freshmen at all. Simpson improved in almost all areas except the ability to put the ball through the hoop, and Davis/Griffiths both improved in-season from beginning to end. Woolf was largely replaced by Ogbole, but did see his turnovers and fouls go down significantly this year.

The narrative is just off - even if you just cherry pick to this one season.

 

[RUChoppin]

Fair on the OR and WA points but JY was a similar player that he was for RU going into Texas. He wasn’t exactly a schlub transferring here.

That's nonsense. JY saw significant improvement at Rutgers vs. Texas... especially from his junior to senior years here.

Per 100 possessions:
TX (2yr): 17.5 pts, 2.8 ast, 1.6 stl, 4.5 pf
RU RS Jr: 23.6 pts, 5.2 ast, 2.9 stl, 4.1 pf
RU RS Sr: 27.5 pts, 6.5 ast, 3.3 stl, 3.6 pf

 

[fluoxetine]

Fair on the OR and WA points but JY was a similar player that he was for RU going into Texas. He wasn’t exactly a schlub transferring here.

But my JY point was he wasn’t here two years ago. He left March 2021.

That’s not really true. He was out of control at Texas and when he debuted here.

 

[darkcheck]

That’s not really true. He was out of control at Texas and when he debuted here.

He was also a little out of control here. Turned it over a lot. But you got more good than bad with him so I was very happy. Loved JY. The ultimate catalyst. I’ll agree Pike helped mold him into a good part of the team.

 

[darkcheck]

2 years ago: Baker and Harper - both saw considerable development over their time at Rutgers.

1 year ago: McConnell had significant improvement from his freshman year, especially defensively, but also from a ball handling/distribution perspective (his ast/tov was much better than when he arrived). Mulcahy also showed significant improvement in most categories from his underclassman to upperclassman years, not the least of which in floor leadership that doesn't show in the box score. Spencer improved over the course of the year, too, adjusting to a big step up in competition from Loyala-MD.

This year: Omoruyi is a much better player than he was when he walked in the door, as was Oskar. Really seems like you have no memory of what they were like as freshmen at all. Simpson improved in almost all areas except the ability to put the ball through the hoop, and Davis/Griffiths both improved in-season from beginning to end. Woolf was largely replaced by Ogbole, but did see his turnovers and fouls go down significantly this year.

The narrative is just off - even if you just cherry pick to this one season.

I agreed with you on RHJ and Geo. Do you keep including them just to keep arguing. Agree to disagree on the others. You’re giving more opinion than fact and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. Be well my fellow Rutgers fan!

 

[Shelby65]

My hope is that the fact that Pike is actually known for developing players vs Cal just lets them do their thing and relies solely on talent, will produce significantly different results

How does Pike develop players? Pike rolls the ball out for playground offense too.

The only difference is, Pike’s players aren’t good enough to be drafted so that’s why they stay. There’s no developing here despite the extra seasons for our guys.

 

[Shelby65]

Plum nails it again! Mark it down.

Id say realistic hopes, not realistic expectations.

 

[RUDivision]

My hope is that the fact that Pike is actually known for developing players vs Cal just lets them do their thing and relies solely on talent, will produce significantly different results

What ? 😂

 

[RUDivision]

3 seed, talented freshman hyped up as lottery picks, bounced in the first round by an older team.

I understand the comparison because of the freshman coming in but from a program prospective the Virginia game was also concerning. Bennett runs a more successful better version of Pikes program. 4 out of 5 years out in the first round. (Does have a national championship). After the game Bennett’s self reflection on his program was really refreshing.

 

[Roy_Faulker]

Pike should call the UM guy who coached the fab 5.

 

[RUChoppin]

I agreed with you on RHJ and Geo. Do you keep including them just to keep arguing. Agree to disagree on the others. You’re giving more opinion than fact and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. Be well my fellow Rutgers fan!

Stats back up the improvement - you seem to be forgetting their freshman years entirely.

Mulcahy: His points, assists, steals, and fouls per 100 possessions all improved. His DRtg also improved. Our offense stagnated when he was off the floor as a junior/senior (previous threads I've commented on with data backing that up, too).

Omoruyi: His points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and fouls per 100 possessions all improved, as did his FT%. Certain aspects of his game never developed (post moves, mid-range), but to say he didn't improve from the time he got here is just bonkers.

Palmquist: It seemed like he was laying on the floor more than he was on his feet as a freshman - any contact knocked him over like a feather. By this year, he was one of the more physical/gritty players we had. He saw practically no time his first two years, buried on the bench - and became a functional reserve this year. He started from a very low starting point, and made his way up to serviceable. He wasn't a standard rotation player by any stretch - to say he didn't improve is, again, bonkers.

Simpson: Saw improvements in rebounds, assists, steals, ast/tov, fouls, 3P%.... but a big dropoff in 2P%. He became a better "all around" utility player as a sophomore - but he just couldn't find the bottom of the net and took a lot of bad-decision long-two shots.

 

[seansherm]

Stats back up the improvement - you seem to be forgetting their freshman years entirely.

Mulcahy: His points, assists, steals, and fouls per 100 possessions all improved. His DRtg also improved. Our offense stagnated when he was off the floor as a junior/senior (previous threads I've commented on with data backing that up, too).

Omoruyi: His points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and fouls per 100 possessions all improved, as did his FT%. Certain aspects of his game never developed (post moves, mid-range), but to say he didn't improve from the time he got here is just bonkers.

Palmquist: It seemed like he was laying on the floor more than he was on his feet as a freshman - any contact knocked him over like a feather. By this year, he was one of the more physical/gritty players we had. He saw practically no time his first two years, buried on the bench - and became a functional reserve this year. He started from a very low starting point, and made his way up to serviceable. He wasn't a standard rotation player by any stretch - to say he didn't improve is, again, bonkers.

Simpson: Saw improvements in rebounds, assists, steals, ast/tov, fouls, 3P%.... but a big dropoff in 2P%. He became a better "all around" utility player as a sophomore - but he just couldn't find the bottom of the net and took a lot of bad-decision long-two shots.

I've always struggled with determining what was development from a coaching perspective, and what was development just from an age/maturity point of view? It's tough to point to sometimes.

 

[RUChoppin]

I've always struggled with determining what was development from a coaching perspective, and what was development just from an age/maturity point of view? It's tough to point to sometimes.

Just having more years on the Earth does impart something, but you don't get much development if you spend those years off the court - the reps, S&C, drills, film study, etc... all of that goes into building that maturity. Decision-making may improve from HS to the end of college just in general - but the concept of the "cagey veteran" player is generally from years of reps and understanding what works when.

 

[RUDivision]

I've always struggled with determining what was development from a coaching perspective, and what was development just from an age/maturity point of view? It's tough to point to sometimes.

Agreed !

Paul came in a highly recruited PG! His senior season was his worse of his career at RU. He meltdown and was taken off the ball and ultimately lost his job.

Cliff made strides freshman to sophomore year but never developed a post game, touch, hands, or a jump shot.

If you want to credit Pike for Oskar who would not play on a talented RU team then ok.

Let’s not try and compare a HOF coach in Cal to Pike.

 

[RUChoppin]

The bigger question for me is how much is intrinsic vs. instilled. A coach can give you guidance, but how many reps are you putting in on your own time? Geo Baker asked for a key to the RAC so he could get more shots up at midnight, and he got other guys to do that with him - that's a desire to improve coupled with leadership/charisma. The coach might instill values/culture in a team, but the players need to take it to the next level.

It's one thing to do something in the confines of a practice where you're being coached/watched - and another to put in the time outside the practice to get better. Kobe Bryant is a perfect example of this - he had tremendous gifts from a talent perspective, but he also worked harder and put in more hours than almost anyone.

When I was a teacher. I used to say that it's almost impossible to teach... the best you can do is facilitate learning. If a student isn't willing to learn, no amount of brilliantly designed lessons are going to reach them. You have to work on breaking down those barriers and motivating before any teaching can break through. Learning comes from both sides - a willing student, and a good teacher.

 

[Pdabs]

What a time to be alive…. Fans worried about not being Kentucky. lol they haven’t missed the dance in like 10 years.

 

[darkcheck]

Just having more years on the Earth does impart something, but you don't get much development if you spend those years off the court - the reps, S&C, drills, film study, etc... all of that goes into building that maturity. Decision-making may improve from HS to the end of college just in general - but the concept of the "cagey veteran" player is generally from years of reps and understanding what works when.

Many players work with private trainers in the off-seasons. Or push themselves.

 

[Plum Street]

The whole premise of this thread is kinda ridiculous. Yeah, Rutgers basketball fans actually want Rutgers to “avoid being Kentucky.” Absurd.

Maybe our football team will avoid being Alabama

 

[RRRRUUUU]

The whole premise of this thread is kinda ridiculous. Yeah, Rutgers basketball fans actually want Rutgers to “avoid being Kentucky.” Absurd.

Maybe our football team will avoid being Alabama

You realize it’s to avoid being this years Kentucky right? I assumed that was self explanatory. But I guess you would consider making the tourney and losing in the first round next year as successful? I think that is absurd.

 

[Pdabs]

You realize it’s to avoid being this years Kentucky right? I assumed that was self explanatory. But I guess you would consider making the tourney and losing in the first round next year as successful? I think that is absurd.

Kentucky was a 3 seed. Let’s worry about making the tournament before we worry about being eliminated by a 14.

 

[Plum Street]

You realize it’s to avoid being this years Kentucky right? I assumed that was self explanatory. But I guess you would consider making the tourney and losing in the first round next year as successful? I think that is absurd.

Sign me up for a year where we get a 3 seed.
Sign , sealed and delivered now.

 

[fluoxetine]

You realize it’s to avoid being this years Kentucky right? I assumed that was self explanatory. But I guess you would consider making the tourney and losing in the first round next year as successful? I think that is absurd.

As a 3 seed? Yes.

 

[RU848789]

The only acceptable outcome next year is an NCAA championship (if one had highly unrealistic expectations).

 

[Pdabs]

lets avoid being unc next year. They won the regular season ACC tittle but lost in the championship game. Would be bad start heading into the ncaa tournament.

 

[darkcheck]

As a 3 seed? Yes.

How much fun would that be? Probably means we were good enough to be in the B1G tourney final.

 

[gigantor1024]

Have to make the tournament first

 

[RU-ROCS]

3 seed, talented freshman hyped up as lottery picks, bounced in the first round by an older team.

It’s a legitimate concern for sure. Need to get very good upperclassmen leaders in the portal.

 

[mikeyo]

3 seed, talented freshman hyped up as lottery picks, bounced in the first round by an older team.

We can avoid being Kentucky by playing some defense. They allowed Oakland to score 80 on them

 

[Plum Street]

We can avoid being Kentucky by playing some defense. They allowed Oakland to score 80 on them

That’s Kentucky’s style .fast paced team that gambles a lot on defense to create offense. .

 

[Plum Street]

It’s a legitimate concern for sure. Need to get very good upperclassmen leaders in the portal.

lol how is it legitimate ? You really think we will be a 3 seed or better ?

 

[RUGiddy777]

Thinking we start by avoiding hiring Cal.

Yup. And maybe don’t give Pike a lifetime contract with a 35 mil buyout in the offseason.

 

[RUGiddy777]

He was also a little out of control here. Turned it over a lot. But you got more good than bad with him so I was very happy. Loved JY. The ultimate catalyst. I’ll agree Pike helped mold him into a good part of the team.

I’m really bummed Derek didn’t turn into that X factor you could bring off the bench next season.

 

[aplus29]

Pluck Ahmed Bradshaw out of the portal and teach him to play D

 

[needmorecowbell]

sign me up for a 3seed…🤷‍♂️