I owe EZPass $1,500

[Upstream]

But why is it now in Al's court? Because they sent a notice? Because you said so? It only shifts to Al if there is some legal reason. You seem to imply he has some obligation to work with EZ Pass to resolve the problem. That may or may not be true. Now, if EZ Pass had a legally enforceable rule that said after 90 days or something, you no longer have the opportunity to challenge the imposition of administrative fees, than clearly you would be right. Al's rights would have lapsed, and he probably wouldn't be able to challenge them.

NJ Statute 27:23-34.3 is exactly that legally enforceable rule. The statute allows the NJ Turnpike Authority (or its agent) to send out toll violation notices. You have 30 days after receiving the notice to dispute the notice. On the 31st day you are liable for the toll plus an administrative fee. The Turnpike Authority may also issue a complaint and summons, enforceable in the municipal court where the toll violation occurred. If a summons is issued, you are liable for a civil penalty in addition to the toll and administrative fee. The municipality keeps the civil penalty, and the court returns the toll and administrative fee to the Turnpike Authority.

 

[chriswasky]

Just pay cash lol

 

[RU85inFla]

85, your analogy isn't comparable. In your example, there is a third party involved who may or may not be responsible for the debit card being declined. In Al's case, there is no third party to be harmed. You can blame him from blowing off the notices, but when EZ Pass equipment doesn't work it is their problem.

When EZ pass doesn't work it's the turnpikes problem. EZ pass is the payment processor just like the machine at the register at Walmart.

 

[ruready4somefootball]

Amazing,I know 2 guys one who owns a construction company in NYC who owes ezpass over $30,000. He refuses to pay the toll saying it's unfair, and another guy who owes $27,000. I can't believe they don't take away their license. Makes me sick that my youngest son pays $500 a month to ride into the city every month and these guys will probably never pay a dime.

 

[Ty Webb]

But why is it now in Al's court? Because they sent a notice? Because you said so? It only shifts to Al if there is some legal reason. You seem to imply he has some obligation to work with EZ Pass to resolve the problem. That may or may not be true. Now, if EZ Pass had a legally enforceable rule that said after 90 days or something, you no longer have the opportunity to challenge the imposition of administrative fees, than clearly you would be right. Al's rights would have lapsed, and he probably wouldn't be able to challenge them.

But I don't think that is the case. I think he can challenge the bill at any time (with EZ Pass, with a collection agency, or in a court of law). That's why I asked if you had any support for your position.

In case the legal argument isn't clear, take it to an absurd example: I mistakenly send you a bill for services I performed for your neighbor. You ignore it. I send you a second and third notice, and in the third notice I write that "If you fail to respond within 30 days, you agree that you owe the full amount, and waive any right to challenge the obligation in court." You then chuck those notices in the trash as well, and never call me to tell me of my mistake. If I give the bill to an attorney to collect, do you have to pay? Of course not. You never legally owed me anything. If I file for a judgment in court, did you lose your right to challenge the liability? Of course not. Just because I say you agreed to the balance by not responding, doesn't mean your legal rights changed. I can say whatever I want, it doesn't change your legal rights. You had no obligation to pay me, and no obligation to correct my error.

Your analogy is silly. Because in that situation I have no obligation to pay because I received no goods or services. If this went to court, it would be laughed out by the judge.

Al admits he uses EZPASS but it doesn't work all the time. So he has been receiving services and not been paying for them. The provider of the service has sent numerous letters trying to fix the problem. Al ignored them.

How in the world do you think your example is in any way the same as what Al is currently going through?

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Your analogy is silly. Because in that situation I have no obligation to pay because I received no goods or services. If this went to court, it would be laughed out by the judge.

Al admits he uses EZPASS but it doesn't work all the time. So he has been receiving services and not been paying for them. The provider of the service has sent numerous letters trying to fix the problem. Al ignored them.

How in the world do you think your example is in any way the same as what Al is currently going through?

As I said, the analogy reduced the point to absurdity. I was just trying to clearly show you what I was saying. I guess I failed. I don't know how else I could even say it. Legal rights do not change because someone sends notices. Legal rights only change if there is a statute that says your failure to respond to notices will result in a loss or appeal rights.

Anyway, it is all moot now. Upstream supplied the statute I was looking for you to provide. So your unsupported opinion on the matter was correct, and there is in fact a legal mechanism to provide for a waiver of rights in the event you do not respond to notices.

Upstream, thanks for taking the time to locate and post the statute.

 

[derleider]

Yes but i wasn't dumb enough to blow it off. I had old transponders that weren't working properly. They would work sometimes but not others. So I got a bunch of those violation notices in the mail. I called the 973 number and long story short they waived the "Admin" fees. I sent in a check for the actual toll amount that wasn't collected due to the faulty transponder. I highly recommend that those of you that have old transponders (like over 7-8 years old) proactively request new ones. You will need to mail back the old ones once the new ones arrive.

Ive never had an issue with getting out of the tickets. Ive driven through with a low balance (CC number changed and it couldnt refill). Ive driven through with an unregistered car. Ive drive through without the transponder at all.

As long as you have an active account it seems like basically you can get away with only paying for the toll. Which makes sense. The primary roll of the heavy fines is to discourage people from skipping the tolls (i.e. if the fine were $5, you could skip 5 $1 tolls and still come out ahead.) with no intention of ever paying for them.

As for Al. Should have responded on time. Not sure why you didnt.

 

[OntheBanks]

There is this little message screen in front of you on the drivers side when you drive through the toll boot that either says 'EZPASS PAID' or some other thing like 'Balance Low'.
You really have to take notice of this thing and if it doesn't say 'EZPASS PAID' call the EzPass Number and speak to someone.

 

[knightfan7]

If they were overcharging Al for EZ Pass would he have ignored it? Seems pretty obvious he thought he was getting away with something and it bit him on the butt.

 

[scarletrat]

maybe next time you'll act on it sooner. stop whining and pay it or contact them, which you should have done in the first place...

 

[derleider]

When EZ pass doesn't work it's the turnpikes problem. EZ pass is the payment processor just like the machine at the register at Walmart.

Not true. It would be more like, you go through the line at Walmart and the you dont have your receipt to show the guy checking at the door.

 

[cRURah]

Al - man up and pay the fines. You screwed up.

 

[wheezer]

Just pay cash lol

Did you ever notice how long the line of cars can be for the cash lanes?......why people pay cash, unless they need the receipt, is beyond me......and for the most part, ez pass is problem free, easy to do, saves time

 

[derleider]

Even the recipt thing doesnt work - because you could just print out your EZ pass statement as a receipt.

I would assume its people who a) dont like the idea of being tracked, b) dont use it often enough to justify paying whatever the monthly fee is, c) are juts too lazy or ignorant to get it.

 

[Bones131]

Even the recipt thing doesnt work - because you could just print out your EZ pass statement as a receipt.

I would assume its people who a) dont like the idea of being tracked, b) dont use it often enough to justify paying whatever the monthly fee is, c) are juts too lazy or ignorant to get it.

There was a period about a decade ago where speeding tickets were issued based on the timing/distance between toll plazas. That turned some people off, especially since NJ claimed this would never happen when EZ Pass was introduced. I don't think this happens anymore, though.

 

[rutgersal]

Your analogy is silly. Because in that situation I have no obligation to pay because I received no goods or services. If this went to court, it would be laughed out by the judge.

Al admits he uses EZPASS but it doesn't work all the time. So he has been receiving services and not been paying for them. The provider of the service has sent numerous letters trying to fix the problem. Al ignored them.

How in the world do you think your example is in any way the same as what Al is currently going through?

Not paying for services was not intentional. It only occured due to a defect in the ezpass system, where the transponder won't work in certain instances.

The issue isn't the cost of service,the issue is the excessively punitive penalty for an issue that isn't my fault. I pay about 100-200 a month in tolls, and a most of the time it works. It's the exceptions which make things problematic. A $50 + penalty on a 2 dollar toll is ridiculous.

Now I have to go back, look at all the dates the infractions occurred, then provide the statements for those dates. Frankly, I don't have time for this, but now i'm going to have to make time.

Not true. It would be more like, you go through the line at Walmart and the you dont have your receipt to show the guy checking at the door.

The Walmart example would only hold if in the future, they did away with cashiers and you could have a shopping cart filled with goods tagged with RFID, and the walmart reader fails to read the smartcard embedded within your smart phone.

I shouldn't be liable for defects occurring within the ezpass reading system. That's the root cause of the issue.

I never had an issue with Florida's SunPass, which seems to work better.

 

[RU4Real]

There was a period about a decade ago where speeding tickets were issued based on the timing/distance between toll plazas. That turned some people off, especially since NJ claimed this would never happen when EZ Pass was introduced. I don't think this happens anymore, though.

This is a total myth.

 

[CERU00]

This is a total myth.

Years back I was given warnings for speeding through the tollbooths. It was so long ago I don't remember if my account was suspended or not.

 

[RU4Real]

Years back I was given warnings for speeding through the tollbooths. It was so long ago I don't remember if my account was suspended or not.

There's a difference between what you said and what he said.

What he said has been proposed in various places around the country but has definitely never been implemented in NJ or anywhere else around here.

 

[Upstream]

Not paying for services was not intentional. It only occured due to a defect in the ezpass system, where the transponder won't work in certain instances.

The issue isn't the cost of service,the issue is the excessively punitive penalty for an issue that isn't my fault.

Of course the issue is your fault. The punitive penalty isn't because the transponder didn't work. The punitive penalty is because you ignored the notices that were sent to you.

 

[Bones131]

This is a total myth.

I have a buddy who received one. It wasn't a warning. It was an actual ticket.

 

[RobertG]

Any relation to the OP?

http://www.nj.com/union/index.ssf/2...000_in_e-pass_fees_arrested.html#incart_river

 

[Knightmoves]

Any relation to the OP?

http://www.nj.com/union/index.ssf/2...000_in_e-pass_fees_arrested.html#incart_river

Toll cheats are some of the lowest forms of the human species. I say hang 'em high.

 

[RU4Real]

I have a buddy who received one. It wasn't a warning. It was an actual ticket.

It was either not in NY/NY/CT or he's embellishing the story.

I spent two years as in a director-level position with a major ITS organization and worked directly for Larry Yermack, known in the industry as "The Father of EZ-Pass". No tolling authority in this region has ever issued a summons for speeding using time between stations as evidence.

The reason is very simple - law enforcement and tolling agencies aren't the same thing. Tolling agencies can't issue moving violations and there is no mechanism to share tolling data with law enforcement.

 

[Upstream]

Real -- While I don't think it is legal in NJ to use EZ-Pass data to issue speeding tickets, that doesn't mean that EZ-Pass signals are only used by tolling agencies. Doesn't the DOT use aggregated EZ-Pass signals to determine traffic flow on highways and to populate the signs that say "Distance to Exit 7: 15 miles. Time: 23 minutes".

 

[RU4Real]

Real -- While I don't think it is legal in NJ to use EZ-Pass data to issue speeding tickets, that doesn't mean that EZ-Pass signals are only used by tolling agencies. Doesn't the DOT use aggregated EZ-Pass signals to determine traffic flow on highways and to populate the signs that say "Distance to Exit 7: 15 miles. Time: 23 minutes".

Used to, but not so much anymore. When they introduced the Mark V tag readers, those toll tag-based travel time systems (a number of which I designed and deployed) started to decay.

We circumvented the issue starting in 2009 by switching the technology from Mark IV tag readers to Bluetooth receivers. I'm proud to say that I was part of the dev team on that technology, which now populates everything from travel time Dynamic Message Systems to Google / Waze / etc. maps.

The thing that goes to the crux of your point, however, is that regardless of the technology - toll tag or Bluetooth - there's no actual customer data used. The systems are designed to read the network ID of the device and immediately convert it into an encrypted internal ID. Once that encrypted ID appears at the next receiver and the elapsed time is logged, the ID is discarded by the system.

 

[SkilletHead2]

I love Al.

 

[Bones131]

It was either not in NY/NY/CT or he's embellishing the story.

I spent two years as in a director-level position with a major ITS organization and worked directly for Larry Yermack, known in the industry as "The Father of EZ-Pass". No tolling authority in this region has ever issued a summons for speeding using time between stations as evidence.

The reason is very simple - law enforcement and tolling agencies aren't the same thing. Tolling agencies can't issue moving violations and there is no mechanism to share tolling data with law enforcement.

Now, I could be dead wrong and your logic is, well, logical. But around the same time, about 10-15 years ago, I recall reading an article in the South Jersey edition of the Philadelphia Inquirer that because the anticipated revenue from toll violators was WAY below projections (since people aren't the criminals that gov't always assumes they are) that Whitman went against her promise at the outset of EZ Pass that tickets would never be issued based on the data gathered.

I'll search for that article but it was so long ago I may not be able to find it, if it does exist.

 

[Bones131]

It was either not in NY/NY/CT or he's embellishing the story.

I spent two years as in a director-level position with a major ITS organization and worked directly for Larry Yermack, known in the industry as "The Father of EZ-Pass". No tolling authority in this region has ever issued a summons for speeding using time between stations as evidence.

The reason is very simple - law enforcement and tolling agencies aren't the same thing. Tolling agencies can't issue moving violations and there is no mechanism to share tolling data with law enforcement.

Here's the article I read. And you're right. The concern at the time was that speeding info would be referred to law enforcement to issue a ticket. My buddy must have just received a warning.

http://articles.philly.com/1998-02-17/news/25751766_1_ez-pass-transponder-tolls

 

[Abro1975]

Uh oh !

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/...than_13k_in_toll_violations.html#incart_river

 

[wheezer]

Years back I was given warnings for speeding through the tollbooths. It was so long ago I don't remember if my account was suspended or not.

---------

About ten years ago, maybe longer, I received a mailed warning for going through a toll booth about 37 mph.....There was no suspension for that single offense, but I believe they warn you it could happen with repeated offenses....I also am fairly certain I was going much slower than the letter said.