Is Archie Miller the target?

[OntheBanks]

dont want him..need area ties.

Don't be so sure about that. Please read the bios of the assistant coaches. What Miller could
bring with him would top the assistants that Hurley would bring. Those 3 have plenty of local
ties and have been associated with big time programs. Archie's getting $650K at Dayton.
RU may be able to double that salary and also give a good bump to the 3 Assistants.
Read the bios of the assistant coaches. ----- http://daytonflyers.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

 

[SAE96]

listen to the podcast. They arent making it up. Parrish has covered college hoops for years. Seth Davis echoes his sentiments they know the landscape. This has zero to do with football either. Being in the Big 10 means nothing because RU is like a MAAC school in basketball. The facilities are embarrassing, the support has been embarrassing, the fanbase has been decimated and RU continues to hire the wrong coach...RU is ready to hire its 7 coach in the last 20 years.

I realize RU is ready to spend more on athletics but more is just going to put us at the bottom 4 of the Big 10, guys will not come here because you throw $3 million at them. Mack and Miller have no reason to go here when they will get offers from much more stable programs where they can start winning in year 2 and 3 not maybe in year 5.

I don't believe I disagreed with the premise that this is a difficult job and will take an extensive rebuild. Terrible job to me means something else. I think coach Jordan, regardless of his faults, did a good job of removing the taint left after Mike Rice. Hobbs is now tasked with finding a coach that can build a solid winning program. It may take 5 years, but depending on the coach it may take 3. I think we're just disagreeing about what change is needed. Most think structural change is most important. I actually think a talented coach who's goal oriented, is more important, and can quicken the pace of the rebuild. I'm hoping Hobbs feels the same way.

Regardless, I have a great deal of confidence and respect in and for our new AD.

 

[RUJMM78]

listen to the podcast. They arent making it up. Parrish has covered college hoops for years. Seth Davis echoes his sentiments they know the landscape. This has zero to do with football either. Being in the Big 10 means nothing because RU is like a MAAC school in basketball. The facilities are embarrassing, the support has been embarrassing, the fanbase has been decimated and RU continues to hire the wrong coach...RU is ready to hire its 7 coach in the last 20 years.

I realize RU is ready to spend more on athletics but more is just going to put us at the bottom 4 of the Big 10, guys will not come here because you throw $3 million at them. Mack and Miller have no reason to go here when they will get offers from much more stable programs where they can start winning in year 2 and 3 not maybe in year 5.

The practice facility probably won't be completed until 2017 at the earliest.In the interim there is nothing to sell and Rutgers still must compete in the B1G and likely will have additional losing seasons.

 

[LC-88]

We had to let Eddie go this year. For once, as long as I can remember, searching for a new coach when most major teams are not doing the same. Wise timing. May not be a "Rutgers" market next year.

 

[Russ Wood]

Archie's getting $650K at Dayton.

RU may be able to double that salary and also give a good bump to the 3 Assistants.

As I mentioned in another thread, or maybe earlier in this one, Archie Miller makes $2.2 million per year at Dayton. The $650K number is the UD portion, there is a private collection he is paid as well.

 

[RU_Planning]

The landscape of college basketball has changed significantly over the last decade. The successful coaches at was once the mid-major level know better to leave for bottom of the barrel P5 conference teams, it just sets their careers back.

I personally think with how the conference realignment has increased the size of P5 conferences, it has watered down the basketball so much that the Daytons of the world are just flat out better jobs than the majority of P5 jobs now, because these schools get all of the resources because they are the top dogs.

Coaches can be kings at these schools and obtain a high level of success and when one of the great P5 jobs comes available then they can make the jump (Sean Miller did it). I would expect Archie Miller to only leave Dayton for an elite job (Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, UNC type) or NC State, his alma mater.

 

[rucoe89]

I'd put money on us going with some up and coming assistant. Any Chris Ash like names out there?

 

[goru7]

I just don't agree with your opinion of the RU BBall job. Like any school, we have our benefits and difficulties, but they're no different than the vast majority of schools. I think too many pundits, like the podcast you posted, are missing seismic change that's occurred.

We fired both the Men's football and basketball coaches in the same year. We don't need to create a pretense like Snowgate or Pitt baseball gate to do it. For the first time, the Administration and the State are on the same page as the AD. In addition, money just doesn't seem to be an impediment any longer(because otherwise how could you fire both staffs in the same year, in such a quick manner).

Things have begun to change significantly, which many of the media seem to be missing.

We talked about Danny before this season even started. I think he would be an excellent choice. However, based on what I see and hear my expectations for a new coach have been raised. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be extremely happy with Danny and confident that we were moving in the right direction.

This job, based on recent changes, has become significantly more attractive than it has been over the last 25 years.

There is nothing to suggest nationally that things are better or attractive to any coach worth overpaying for. I have been saying it for months, Rutgers is known nationally as a coaching graveyard , and neither the 25 year NCAA drought, the 10 straight losing seasons, the lack of recruiting locally because we do not play the dirty AAU game, helps make it rosier. We have to overpay to get anyone worth a damn but asking that established coach to just believe Pat Hobbs that a practice facility is coming without seeing it, and the Big 10 and future money makes this attractive as a job, is just wishful thinking .
We have to just get lucky. Lucky that Sendek can see the vision, knowing that he has done the rebuild before. Getting any coach from a basketball only school Dayton, Xavier, Wichita State, requires a huge overpay and complete control and an overpay for top flight assistants. Everything else is an absolute flyer and like playing the lottery. We play in the Big 10. Any flyer has to withstand and have the intestinal fortitude to lose and lose and not get discouraged. The are only so many Gregg Marshall and Jon Beilein's of the world.

 

[MADHAT1]

Time , money, authority, and proof that RU will support the MBB program with what it needs will bring in top HCs like Miller.
Fail to agree to even one of those things and they probable will treat any offer they get from Hobbs like he was trying to infect them with the plague .

But more than likely this round won't see coaches in Miller's category be willing to gamble their future on making RU a winner and only coaches like Sendek and Hurley would be interested.
But even Danny might not want the position and if he did consider taking it, probably want more than he demanded last time him and RU talked with him walking away from what RU was willing to give.
Sendek might even be out of RU's reach if another program feels he's the right one for them and gives him an offer that compares to RU's but the program isn't the mess RU MBB is right now.

 

[Caliknight]

I'd rather an assistant from a winning school than Hurley. He isn't moving any needles.

 

[coldsprings]

something tells me we wind up with an asst coach from Nevada...we have a Wall mart budget and less infrastructure to recruit with..

The hire will be a good one. It makes no sense that Hobbs would fire Jordan only to hire someone who pisses off the fanbase. Hobbs wants the whole deal, good coaching ability, good recruiting and passionate about working hard. I have no reason to think Hobbs won't find such a coach.

 

[SAE96]

There is nothing to suggest nationally that things are better or attractive to any coach worth overpaying for. I have been saying it for months, Rutgers is known nationally as a coaching graveyard , and neither the 25 year NCAA drought, the 10 straight losing seasons, the lack of recruiting locally because we do not play the dirty AAU game, helps make it rosier. We have to overpay to get anyone worth a damn but asking that established coach to just believe Pat Hobbs that a practice facility is coming without seeing it, and the Big 10 and future money makes this attractive as a job, is just wishful thinking .
We have to just get lucky. Lucky that Sendek can see the vision, knowing that he has done the rebuild before. Getting any coach from a basketball only school Dayton, Xavier, Wichita State, requires a huge overpay and complete control and an overpay for top flight assistants. Everything else is an absolute flyer and like playing the lottery. We play in the Big 10. Any flyer has to withstand and have the intestinal fortitude to lose and lose and not get discouraged. The are only so many Gregg Marshall and Jon Beilein's of the world.

Between our two posts, the only one making major assumptions is you. It is not wishful thinking that both a practice facility and upgrades to the RAC are coming. They're coming in the next several years. What are currently being discussed are timelines and particulars.

If being at a mid major is the equivalent of a P5 school then why don't you see more of the good coaches stay at the midmajor level?. Last year, Smart went to Texas and Hurley to ASU. I don't remember one P5 coach leaving for a mid major or the P5 school having to significantly overpay. We will continue to see excellent mid major coaches continue to take jobs at P5 schools. There is no amount of self-engradizing that can occur at a mid major that can match the resources, pay and facilities at P5 schools. The two just aren't comparable. The last mid major to win an NCAA championship was 40 years ago. Just so we're clear, I'm a Georgetown Basketball season ticket holder, but my friends and I understand, that they no longer play in the same pool as the P5s. Maryland and UVA have both passed GU. That was something we'd never have imagined.

Miller's next job will be at a P5 school. There's no reason that it shouldn't be RU, if they meet all his demands. Paying him market value isn't an overpay, it's just what he's worth. A coach will get paid well, whether he is hired by Louiseville or RU(as examples). No hiring of a BBall coach, unless it's a Pitino or Calipari, brings a certainty of success, so I don't understand your point about us needing to take a flyer. Almost every coaching hiring brings with it uncertainties. The level of uncertainty depends on the candidate hired. Having to get lucky by hiring the right coach is not a Rutgers' problem, it's one that's endemic to all schools.

Just as with the football search, I think the level of deprication regarding the program and the school is over the top on these boards. The RU job is a good job, in a tough conference, that requires a significant rebuild. I don't believe that scares coaching candidates. They're already driven to be hyper competitive as the highest levels. An experienced top level coach will take this job and be paid fairly. I would be happy with Danny, Sendek, or Miller. I'm excited about the future.

 

[bac2therac]

Daytton is not your typical mid major..actually they arent a mid major..Smart went to Texas not TCU. Buffalo is a weak program thats why Bobby bolted. Rutgers is the least attractive of any power 5 job

 

[AreYouNUTS]

The hire will be a good one. It makes no sense that Hobbs would fire Jordan only to hire someone who pisses off the fanbase. Hobbs wants the whole deal, good coaching ability, good recruiting and passionate about working hard. I have no reason to think Hobbs won't find such a coach.

A semblance of sanity; thank you!

 

[SAE96]

Daytton is not your typical mid major..actually they arent a mid major..Smart went to Texas not TCU. Buffalo is a weak program thats why Bobby bolted. Rutgers is the least attractive of any power 5 job

They both left because they got paid more. Wake me up when a mid major wins the NCAAs.

 

[jakeknight]

This in not wizardry, just a lot of hard work, there are any number of qualified coaches who would improve the program, it won't be an established P5 coach. Hobb's goal is to find the good young head coach, (ala Chris Ash) that is talented, hard working, and upwardly mobile and not making 7 figures.

 

[bac2therac]

They both left because they got paid more. Wake me up when a mid major wins the NCAAs.

Smart turned down like 10 jobs before Texas. Miller turned down a lot more to get Arizona...Matta was at Xavier but it took Ohio State to leave....these are bluebloods...RU is a peasant school..we arent even an Illinois or a Mississippi State

 

[RutgHoops]

.....There is no amount of self-engradizing that can occur at a mid major that can match the resources, pay and facilities at P5 schools. The two just aren't comparable. The last mid major to win an NCAA championship was 40 years ago. Just so we're clear, I'm a Georgetown Basketball season ticket holder, but my friends and I understand, that they no longer play in the same pool as the P5s. Maryland and UVA have both passed GU. That was something we'd never have imagined.....

Just as with the football search, I think the level of deprication regarding the program and the school is over the top on these boards. The RU job is a good job, in a tough conference, that requires a significant rebuild. I don't believe that scares coaching candidates. They're already driven to be hyper competitive as the highest levels. An experienced top level coach will take this job and be paid fairly. I would be happy with Danny, Sendek, or Miller. I'm excited about the future.

On the other hand six (6) mid-major teams have made the Final Four in the last decade.

I agree that as a general rule P5>non-P5. But the reality is there are mid major jobs that are better than the Rutgers job. Better than OSU or Michigan or even Illinois or Minnesota? No. But better than Rutgers? Yup.

Dayton has a new "everything". They average almost 13,000 fans a game and they didn't need the state to cut them a tax break to get a practice facility built. Their alums funded it themselves. They helped raise Archie's salary from $625K to $2.2MM. If he wants more money for anything he's getting it at Dayton.

ONE Rutgers HC since 1986 has been a HC again after leaving here. Sorry, but today Dayton and Xavier and Wichita State and VCU and Temple and......are better jobs than Rutgers. Believe me, I wish that weren't the case.

 

[SAE96]

Smart turned down like 10 jobs before Texas. Miller turned down a lot more to get Arizona...Matta was at Xavier but it took Ohio State to leave....these are bluebloods...RU is a peasant school..we arent even an Illinois or a Mississippi State

We aren't, agreed. However, in the next several years we're building a practice facility, renovating the RAC, and our athletic payout will increase to, depending on the new tv deal, somewhere between $40-50 million. Hobbs' actions tell me, we're willing to spend now for future success.

I remember that NIT championship game at MSG, under Waters. We owned the building. It's too bad we lost. However, that night showed me that when we have success, RU has a fairly large and dedicated fan base that will show up.

The only thing this program has lacked is institutional support. I believe that's changed. Let's see where that takes us.

 

[SAE96]

On the other hand six (6) mid-major teams have made the Final Four in the last decade.

I agree that as a general rule P5>non-P5. But the reality is there are mid major jobs that are better than the Rutgers job. Better than OSU or Michigan or even Illinois or Minnesota? No. But better than Rutgers? Yup.

Dayton has a new "everything". They average almost 13,000 fans a game and they didn't need the state to cut them a tax break to get a practice facility built. Their alums funded it themselves. They helped raise Archie's salary from $625K to $2.2MM. If he wants more money for anything he's getting it at Dayton.

ONE Rutgers HC since 1986 has been a HC again after leaving here. Sorry, but today Dayton and Xavier and Wichita State and VCU and Temple and......are better jobs than Rutgers. Believe me, I wish that weren't the case.

Mid majors have a longer streak of not winning the NCAAs than RU has of missing them.

If we're willing to pay, we'll get a quality coach. Most mid majors just won't be able to match the salary.

 

[RutgHoops]

Not trying to be an arse, but for the last 30 years every HC that has come here has left in a body bag. Guys with big time options realize that. Guys like Miller or Chris Mack will pass knowing if they want to move they can wait for something safer. Trust me on this one.

 

[SAE96]

Not trying to be an arse, but for the last 30 years every HC that has come here has left in a body bag. Guys with big time options realize that. Guys like Miller or Chris Mack will pass knowing they can wait for something safer. Trust me on this one.

The past is not always prologue.

We're in a place we've never been before. New facilities on the horizon, a fully funded athletic department, and institutional and state support. Let's see where we go from here.

I don't think we're going to get Miller. Like I said earlier, I would be very happy with Sendek or Hurley. However, I would still make the call, see if there's an opportunity and to take measure of his requirements. The self-defeating nonsense is a bit embarrassing to read.

Thankfully, this board really isn't representative of the actual fan base. The other RU alums and supporters I speak with, have a much higher opinion of the school's athletic programs and are very positive about our future.

 

[bac2therac]

whether they have that opinion doesnt matter, what matter is the opinion of other college coaches, recruits, AAU coaches, and high school players and parents...and RU HAS A TERRIBLE REP.

ten to fifteen years from now yeah maybe its a better job but not now just because they are in the Big 10 with no practice facilities, no money and no boosters

 

[bac2therac]

Mid majors have a longer streak of not winning the NCAAs than RU has of missing them.

If we're willing to pay, we'll get a quality coach. Most mid majors just won't be able to match the salary.

you are naive....Marquette, Dayton, VCU, St Joes, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Gonzaga, Xavier, Memphis, Cincy, UConn, Temple, Seton Hall, George Washington all spend more money on basketball than RU and can easily exceed anything RU throws at them not to mention these are all better jobs. Even Rhode Island is a better job

coaches from these schools are only bolting to elite schools they are jumping to go to Nebraska, Rutgers, Penn State, BC, Wake Forest, TCU, Minnesota, Washington State, Auburns of the world

 

[RUJMM78]

Smart turned down like 10 jobs before Texas. Miller turned down a lot more to get Arizona...Matta was at Xavier but it took Ohio State to leave....these are bluebloods...RU is a peasant school..we arent even an Illinois or a Mississippi State

Maybe FDU and Stony Brook are equal to Rutgers right now which is scary just thinking about the comparison.

 

[coldsprings]

you are naive....Marquette, Dayton, VCU, St Joes, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Gonzaga, Xavier, Memphis, Cincy, UConn, Temple, Seton Hall, George Washington all spend more money on basketball than RU and can easily exceed anything RU throws at them not to mention these are all better jobs. Even Rhode Island is a better job

coaches from these schools are only bolting to elite schools they are jumping to go to Nebraska, Rutgers, Penn State, BC, Wake Forest, TCU, Minnesota, Washington State, Auburns of the world

“The most abundant, least expensive, most underutilized, and constantly abused resource in the world is human ingenuity.”--The legendary founding CEO of Visa, Dee Hock.

Translation of Hock's wisdom for RU basketball: Hobbs knows what qualities he needs in a coach. Notice I said qualities, not just abilities. I would take Hobbs with less money picking the next coach over Herman picking with more money.

Money is way overrated. Hobbs is building a great athletic culture. Culture trumps money. And in a few years we will have the money too.

Every trend eventually is exhausted. The trend of futility in RU basketball has ended.

 

[bac2therac]

Maybe FDU and Stony Brook are equal to Rutgers right now which is scary just thinking about the comparison.

we are more like these schools and Iona and Monmouth than any school of the top 8 conferences in the country

 

[MADHAT1]

Not trying to be an arse, but for the last 30 years every HC that has come here has left in a body bag. Guys with big time options realize that. Guys like Miller or Chris Mack will pass knowing if they want to move they can wait for something safer. Trust me on this one.

I trust you on that, but hope Hobbs can convince someone that is going to change now and they can be a big part of it.
Though I think that will be easier when RU hires someone after the HC bridge to respectability is let go and Rutgers looks for someone that can make RU into a top B1G program.

For those wondering who I consider a bridge type HC, Sendek comes to mind.
I don't think a great candidate like Miller would be willing to gamble their careers on making RU a winning program with everything they would have to overcome.
Whoever is hired will start catching flack be the end of third year if a NIT bid doesn't look like it's coming and the 4th year the natives will be restless.

 

[ruman]

you are naive....Marquette, Dayton, VCU, St Joes, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Gonzaga, Xavier, Memphis, Cincy, UConn, Temple, Seton Hall, George Washington all spend more money on basketball than RU and can easily exceed anything RU throws at them not to mention these are all better jobs. Even Rhode Island is a better job

coaches from these schools are only bolting to elite schools they are jumping to go to Nebraska, Rutgers, Penn State, BC, Wake Forest, TCU, Minnesota, Washington State, Auburns of the world

Wake is still a good job. See what Manning does in the next couple of years

 

[MADHAT1]

we are more like these schools and Iona and Monmouth than any school of the top 8 conferences in the country

But under the right leadership, RU has a chance to change that and make RU MBB on par with the middle of pack B1G MBB programs and possible move up from there with the proper support.

I'll look on the bright side with Hobbs leading and a new MBB HC coming soon.
Don't expect an NCAA bid in the next 2 years, only RU working to make the MBB program better,so the comparisons to lesser programs end and some fairly good B1G, ACC,PAC,SEC & B-12 schools are used instead

 

[Pritz99]

Institutional and State support are the harbinger's of doom for MBB. A believable AD is necessary, as a starting point. Hobbs seems to fill the bill. Now, when a coach thinks about coming here, if he's worth his salt, will take a hard look at the support structure. If it isn't there, he's not coming, regardless of money, "upcoming" facilities and improvements. When people believe Barchi, et al, will be solidly and DEMONSTRABLY behind the program, we'll get serious consideration.

As bad as the Rutgers job is now, that can change. A top to bottom commitment is unequivicably a must. Without it, we'll continue to get our number 6 choice's dream job.

Can we somehow believe the Admin has seen the light and will announce all kinds of goodies simultaneously? I somehow think that the lightning fast firing of Jordan (under the current financial constraints and considerations) that Hobbs' choice is virtually locked up and waiting for a 'dead time' opportunity to ensure as big a splash as possible. And that doesn't sound like a "roll the dice" candidate.

I hope.

 

[ruman]

To the OP - No

 

[MADHAT1]

 

[RUsojo]

I can't believe after months of b*tching and moaning and endless negativity from certain posters they get what they want and now want to continue to b*tch and moan about the coaching pool. Let it go damn.

 

[goru7]

Between our two posts, the only one making major assumptions is you. It is not wishful thinking that both a practice facility and upgrades to the RAC are coming. They're coming in the next several years. What are currently being discussed are timelines and particulars.

If being at a mid major is the equivalent of a P5 school then why don't you see more of the good coaches stay at the midmajor level?. Last year, Smart went to Texas and Hurley to ASU. I don't remember one P5 coach leaving for a mid major or the P5 school having to significantly overpay. We will continue to see excellent mid major coaches continue to take jobs at P5 schools. There is no amount of self-engradizing that can occur at a mid major that can match the resources, pay and facilities at P5 schools. The two just aren't comparable. The last mid major to win an NCAA championship was 40 years ago. Just so we're clear, I'm a Georgetown Basketball season ticket holder, but my friends and I understand, that they no longer play in the same pool as the P5s. Maryland and UVA have both passed GU. That was something we'd never have imagined.

Miller's next job will be at a P5 school. There's no reason that it shouldn't be RU, if they meet all his demands. Paying him market value isn't an overpay, it's just what he's worth. A coach will get paid well, whether he is hired by Louiseville or RU(as examples). No hiring of a BBall coach, unless it's a Pitino or Calipari, brings a certainty of success, so I don't understand your point about us needing to take a flyer. Almost every coaching hiring brings with it uncertainties. The level of uncertainty depends on the candidate hired. Having to get lucky by hiring the right coach is not a Rutgers' problem, it's one that's endemic to all schools.

Just as with the football search, I think the level of deprication regarding the program and the school is over the top on these boards. The RU job is a good job, in a tough conference, that requires a significant rebuild. I don't believe that scares coaching candidates. They're already driven to be hyper competitive as the highest levels. An experienced top level coach will take this job and be paid fairly. I would be happy with Danny, Sendek, or Miller. I'm excited about the future.

Your argument would make more logical sense, if we were a half decent team and not the cluster----we have become. 10 straight losing seasons is not a job top coaches are running too. Your argument about Shaka was properly dismissed by Bac, who pointed out he turned down 10 jobs over 5 plus years until Texas, a school with endless facilities and money, the most in the NCAA. , was a great choice with no downside.
The only way to get one of these top coaches is to drastically overpay the new coach and his assistants. Unfortunately, that has not been Rutgers MO, which is why we are in this mess . So I do not think we are opening up the coffers, which we do not have now and would borrow, to make that splash.
That leaves us with Hobbs finding a diamond in the rough, or an ex-coach recently fired, or a younger coach that has the belief that I do not care how bad a job, facilities, support, fan base are, I will get it done because I am a great coach and a recruiter.