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Is it good coaching to show this little faith in your QB?

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RU-05

Heisman Winner
Jun 25, 2015
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I alluded to it in the "2:30 remaining" post. I think what is hiding in the shadows of that play is a coaching staff that has no faith in the QB. Is using that play as an example a stretch? Maybe. But the 4 runs on the goal line vs Iowa was not.

And maybe worse are the quotes from coach about how "If Oden were ready he'd be in there".

Now I might question what that means "if he were ready", because it sounds kind of like, "if he were better" but to be fair I fully believe what Ash is saying is true. I fully believe Oden is more talented then Laviano, but if you make Laviano your starting QB, then act like he is the starting QB. Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working. I know guys will come back with lack of talent, which is a no doubt issue especially against the likes of OSU(and there are not many like them), but to deny that coaching, player mgmt and player development are not parts of the equation?
 
Usually you only see this happen with field goal kickers. Coaches know their FG kicker sucks and they would rather go for it on fourth down if its a longer kick. But that is different because there's maybe 1 FG kicker on the roster.

We have multiple QBs on the roster but we can only run it in the redzone Its just bizarre.
 
RU-05 said:
I alluded to it in the "2:30 remaining" post. I think what is hiding in the shadows of that play is a coaching staff that has no faith in the QB. Is using that play as an example a stretch? Maybe. But the 4 runs on the goal line vs Iowa was not.

And maybe worse are the quotes from coach about how "If Oden were ready he'd be in there".

Now I might question what that means "if he were ready", because it sounds kind of like, "if he were better" but to be fair I fully believe what Ash is saying is true. I fully believe Oden is more talented then Laviano, but if you make Laviano your starting QB, then act like he is the starting QB. Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working. I know guys will come back with lack of talent, which is a no doubt issue especially against the likes of OSU(and there are not many like them), but to deny that coaching, player mgmt and player development are not parts of the equation?
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it is what it is....... the staff will not get a pass if this happens next year
 
There's a good reason the coaching staff seems to have little faith in the starting qb. I hate to say it but he is really bad. How many times has he thrown easy passes behind the los at the receiver's feet?
 
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RU-05 said:
I alluded to it in the "2:30 remaining" post. I think what is hiding in the shadows of that play is a coaching staff that has no faith in the QB. Is using that play as an example a stretch? Maybe. But the 4 runs on the goal line vs Iowa was not.

And maybe worse are the quotes from coach about how "If Oden were ready he'd be in there".

Now I might question what that means "if he were ready", because it sounds kind of like, "if he were better" but to be fair I fully believe what Ash is saying is true. I fully believe Oden is more talented then Laviano, but if you make Laviano your starting QB, then act like he is the starting QB. Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working. I know guys will come back with lack of talent, which is a no doubt issue especially against the likes of OSU(and there are not many like them), but to deny that coaching, player mgmt and player development are not parts of the equation?
Click to expand...
Do you have faith in the starting QB?
 
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RU-05 said:
I alluded to it in the "2:30 remaining" post. I think what is hiding in the shadows of that play is a coaching staff that has no faith in the QB. Is using that play as an example a stretch? Maybe. But the 4 runs on the goal line vs Iowa was not.

And maybe worse are the quotes from coach about how "If Oden were ready he'd be in there".

Now I might question what that means "if he were ready", because it sounds kind of like, "if he were better" but to be fair I fully believe what Ash is saying is true. I fully believe Oden is more talented then Laviano, but if you make Laviano your starting QB, then act like he is the starting QB. Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working. I know guys will come back with lack of talent, which is a no doubt issue especially against the likes of OSU(and there are not many like them), but to deny that coaching, player mgmt and player development are not parts of the equation?
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It has nothing to do with coaching, just reality.
 
A QB is the leader of the offense, play maker, and the guy who rally's the troops, usually by example. To do that you have to be the correct individual behind center. High football IQ, Leader, A personality, athletic helps, and a good arm(not necessarily "great" arm, but would not hurt).
Once a coach finds that person, LET THEM RUN THE SHOW ON GAME DAY! Too many times coaches want to be more involved in the game than they should be. It's not about them.
As a coach it's your job to prepare the player, teach, motivate, encourage, and of course recruit those players you feel best meets the needs of the position. But, on game day, let go. Let the players play, as they have learned from you, and others. They are playing the game, not you. This is how, not only QB's, but all players develop. The mid week practices, spring practices, and summer are all there for instructional, and evoking your own personal philosophies. The game is for them.
On game day, manage. Group rotations, personal, flow of the game, 4th down decisions, and motivate. That's it!
Now, having said all that, finding the guy is the hard part. I think this coaching staff is still looking. And, until they do they have to be more involved.
 
RU-05 said:
I alluded to it in the "2:30 remaining" post. I think what is hiding in the shadows of that play is a coaching staff that has no faith in the QB. Is using that play as an example a stretch? Maybe. But the 4 runs on the goal line vs Iowa was not.

And maybe worse are the quotes from coach about how "If Oden were ready he'd be in there".

Now I might question what that means "if he were ready", because it sounds kind of like, "if he were better" but to be fair I fully believe what Ash is saying is true. I fully believe Oden is more talented then Laviano, but if you make Laviano your starting QB, then act like he is the starting QB. Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working. I know guys will come back with lack of talent, which is a no doubt issue especially against the likes of OSU(and there are not many like them), but to deny that coaching, player mgmt and player development are not parts of the equation?
Click to expand...
It's all intended to get CL to dig down a little deeper and come up with some gems.
 
brgRC90 said:
There's a good reason the coaching staff seems to have little faith in the starting qb. I hate to say it but he is really bad. How many times has he thrown easy passes behind the los at the receiver's feet?
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Does it seem they have faith in any of the QBs on the roster more than they do CL
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Rutgerscc said:
Well, with all due respect, you're not a coach for a reason.

And Ash and co. are. So, I'll trust them.
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Lame argument. There have been plenty of indisputably bad decisions by coaches throughout the history of sports. And you often don't need to be a coach to realize it.
 
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There are two dynamics going on. The first is, we don't have very good wide receivers. I think the coaches believe in CL but our receivers aren't very good. Remember how Carroo played? He could catch very well and he had the skill or strength to rip the ball away from defenders. If Carroo was on the team the coaches would be calling pass plays.
The second is, and I am a believer in this too, is you do not want to turn the ball over. One interception is worse than a hundred incomplete passes. When the goal line is jamming the field up good db's are now watching the QB ready to get an interception and run it all the way back for a touch down. This staff believes very strongly in not turning the ball over and they are going to coach, based on player's skill levels, to not put them in position to turn the ball over. Again if Carroo is playing they will call pass plays because Carroo's skill level minimized having the ball intercepted.
I think they are not playing Oden yet because he will throw many interceptions.
 
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RU-05 said:
Lame argument. There have been plenty of indisputably bad decisions by coaches throughout the history of sports. And you often don't need to be a coach to realize it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, don't think this will go down in the history of monumentally bad decisions. Or be remembered at all. Even by next year.

So, like the man said ...
 
FanuSanu52 said:
Yeah, don't think this will go down in the history of monumentally bad decisions. Or be remembered at all. Even by next year.

So, like the man said ...
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Only monumentally bad decisions are open for discussion?

I don't understand this idea of not discussing coaches decisions. Or capping any discussion with the line "he is the coach, thus we mere fans should stay quiet".
 
RU-05 said:
Only monumentally bad decisions are open for discussion?

I don't understand this idea of not discussing coaches decisions. Or capping any discussion with the line "he is the coach, thus we mere fans should stay quiet".
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You brought up the history of sports and indisputably bad decisions. If you can remember a decision being bad, in the history of sports, and it was indisputably bad, well, it was a monumentally bad decision.

This episode, on the other hand, won't be remembered at all. The only thing that will be remembered is how sh#t a QB Laviano was.

You can discuss what you want. And part of that discussion is confronting some that disagree, in this case thinking you're completely overanalyzing nothing.
 
FanuSanu52 said:
You brought up the history of sports and indisputably bad decisions. If you can remember a decision being bad, in the history of sports, and it was indisputably bad, well, it was a monumentally bad decision.

This episode, on the other hand, won't be remembered at all. The only thing that will be remembered is how sh#t a QB Laviano was.

You can discuss what you want. And part of that discussion is confronting some that disagree, in this case thinking you're completely overanalyzing nothing.
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There is the confrontation with those that disagree, then there is the idea that "coach knows more about football then fans and thus fans can never criticize."

I have no problem with the former, I argue against the latter.

The use of "indisputably bad" calls is an the extreme example which shows that coach's are not above reproach. But a play need not meet that criteria in order to be criticized.
 
Flood's blind loyalty to Nova is what caused this lack of QB talent, imho, and maybe lack of WR too.. though without a QB what do we really know about the WRs?

I said it then and will repeat it now.. if you play one QB, no matter what he does.. what QB will want to come here and compete against him.. when no competition is allowed? And if the QB is awful (and Nova was until his senior year).. and if the offense is designed around minimizing the passing game to hide the QB.. what WR would want to come here?

This is why we are where we are in the offense and passing game and to see Ash repeating the madness.. though clearly not as badly as Flood did.. it is disturbing.
 
brgRC90 said:
There's a good reason the coaching staff seems to have little faith in the starting qb. I hate to say it but he is really bad. How many times has he thrown easy passes behind the los at the receiver's feet?
Click to expand...
Answer, way too many times. Also, how many times has he taken a sack when he should have thrown the ball away? Answer, way too many times.
 
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CL says he's looking forward to Michigan because for "whatever reason" he plays well at night...at home.
 
RUSK97 said:
Kyle Flood was a coach - did you trust him?
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Bad as he was, Flood probably still knows far, far more about coaching than 99.999% of our fan-base. His decision w/regard to Laviano seems to have been at least partially validated (i.e. that while Laviano ain't great, we didn't have a great alternative either).

He was just in over his head when it comes to getting RU over the recruiting hump and building and running a program to compete in the Big Ten.

His off the field issues are an entirely different thing.
 
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RU-05 said:
There is the confrontation with those that disagree, then there is the idea that "coach knows more about football then fans and thus fans can never criticize."

I have no problem with the former, I argue against the latter.

The use of "indisputably bad" calls is an the extreme example which shows that coach's are not above reproach. But a play need not meet that criteria in order to be criticized.
Click to expand...
Fans can criticize whatever they want. Is just that most of the time the criticism is totally lame for a variety of reasons. Mostly because the fans always think in terms of overly simplistic solutions based on wishful thinking when the real problems are typically not simple at all.

For example, fans see Laviano screwing up so they criticize the coach for not playing someone else. Except the fans don't have a clue what the coach sees in practice or in meeting rooms. Which means that the fans have no clue if there's a better option - they just want it to be so. Which is lame.

Coaches make mistakes all the time, even really good ones. Because they are human. But most of the time, it's next to impossible for a typical fan to truly understand what the actual mistake was. Again, because the fans lack enough information, enough context, to be accurate.

Also, it's incredibly easy to criticize in hindsight. Not so easy to get it right the first time. A trick play goes perfectly and we score? Coach is a genius. A trick play goes wrong and we look bad? Coach is a moron. That's how lots of fans think and, IMO, it's a pretty dumb way to think.
 
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We all would like to see RU have a good/great QB starting and feel Chris Laviano
isn't showing he is one which makes us disappointment in him and some unnecessarily bash Chris because of that disappointment
I suggest you bash Ash for sticking with a QB that you obviously feel unfit to lead Rutgers on the field , Ash is the one that's keeping CL the starter while trying to ease Oden into the college game.
There are other QBs on RUs roster he can try and if CL is so bad one of them deserves a shot to prove he's better for the offense during the game, even if that player isn't doing better than Chris in practice
So you want to blame RUs QB problems on Chris, you might be blaming the wrong Chris :eek:

No I'm not blaming Ash, but feel the constant knocking of Laviano is getting a little ridiculous unless complaints about the HC & OC keeping him the starter aren't included.
Also don't forget none of the other QBs on the roster has earned enough trust to become CL's replacement and how much game time have those QBs have ( except for Oden)
 
mildone said:
Bad as he was, Flood probably still knows far, far more about coaching than 99.999% of our fan-base. His decision w/regard to Laviano seems to have been at least partially validated (i.e. that while Laviano ain't great, we didn't have a great alternative either).

He was just in over his head when it comes to getting RU over the recruiting hump and building and running a program to compete in the Big Ten.

His off the field issues are an entirely different thing.
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Mildone, you're absolutely right of course, but 95% of ScarletNation will disagree with you. In fact, half of SN thinks they can outcoach Saban.
 
Next we will hear that Flood was right to keep Nova in the game vs Va Tech, because you know, we as typical fans don't understand football like he does.
 
RUSK97 said:
Mildone, you're absolutely right of course, but 95% of ScarletNation will disagree with you. In fact, half of SN thinks they can outcoach Saban.
Click to expand...
Our fan-base is a D1 college coaching legend in its own mind. [laughing]
 
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I'm shocked at how many of you can still only blame QB's Kickers and Head coaches. It's funny and sad.

CL has made some bad passes for sure. He also has made some good passes to WR's who were covered so tightly they either dropped, fumbled or had the pass stripped away. Unfortunately those are the downfield passes and our staff definitely does not trust our OFFENSE to call those plays repeatedly. By that we need time, open WR's and more accurate passing. Most of his bad passes have been the short timing passes. They have improved game to game and a whole lot since the Spring game which I thought was really ugly. New system and probably not a great fit for CL. He looked much better in the Pro Style WHEN Carroo was running around out there.

But please blame it all on Flood and Laviano. It really makes you look smart.
 
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Yeah Baby said:
I'm shocked at how many of you can still only blame QB's Kickers and Head coaches. It's funny and sad.

CL has made some bad passes for sure. He also has made some good passes to WR's who were covered so tightly they either dropped, fumbled or had the pass stripped away. Unfortunately those are the downfield passes and our staff definitely does not trust our OFFENSE to call those plays repeatedly. By that we need time, open WR's and more accurate passing. Most of his bad passes have been the short timing passes. They have improved game to game and a whole lot since the Spring game which I thought was really ugly. New system and probably not a great fit for CL. He looked much better in the Pro Style WHEN Carroo was running around out there.

But please blame it all on Flood and Laviano. It really makes you look smart.
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I've (mostly) given up on trying to get people to lose their tunnel vision when it comes to bitching about the QB and/or coach. As the saying goes, haters gonna hate.
 
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RU-05 said:
Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working.
Click to expand...

Our best season ever was with a QB playing the role of "game manager".

In 2006, Teel's per game averages were: 13/23 (55.4%),164 yards, 0.9 TD, 1 INT.

Edit: That's not a defense of CL, just that sometimes you have to do the best you can with what you've got.
 
brgRC90 said:
There's a good reason the coaching staff seems to have little faith in the starting qb. I hate to say it but he is really bad. How many times has he thrown easy passes behind the los at the receiver's feet?
Click to expand...
I had the pies game on the radio, very early in the game we had a receiver wide open down the sideline, laviano missed him. Ray Lucas called it a duck, said we really need to be able to throw the ball well enough to hit a man open like that. This is what we have
 
Flood's decision was validated? wtf? Because of another bad decision-jeesh.

DO we need to play only one qb this week until the game is out of reach? How about if we get down giving another qb a chance to actually win the game-not just hand off and get whatever experience that can be garnered. But to actually try to win. Would be nice to see one time.
 
mildone said:
I've (mostly) given up on trying to get people to lose their tunnel vision when it comes to bitching about the QB and/or coach. As the saying goes, haters gonna hate.
Click to expand...


PLEASE CONTINUE WHAT YOU DO !!!

This board is really un-readable but you bring some much needed sanity to these threads,,, although after reading these boards for many years I fear that none of what you say will ever sink in to most who post on this board. And like I said many times, the prevailing board reaction to most things is not an accurate reflection of the full fan base. It is unbelievable what some people on this board come up with.
 
RU-05 said:
I alluded to it in the "2:30 remaining" post. I think what is hiding in the shadows of that play is a coaching staff that has no faith in the QB. Is using that play as an example a stretch? Maybe. But the 4 runs on the goal line vs Iowa was not.

And maybe worse are the quotes from coach about how "If Oden were ready he'd be in there".

Now I might question what that means "if he were ready", because it sounds kind of like, "if he were better" but to be fair I fully believe what Ash is saying is true. I fully believe Oden is more talented then Laviano, but if you make Laviano your starting QB, then act like he is the starting QB. Play the freaking game. This game manager business is not working. I know guys will come back with lack of talent, which is a no doubt issue especially against the likes of OSU(and there are not many like them), but to deny that coaching, player mgmt and player development are not parts of the equation?
Click to expand...

58-0 says all about the confidence anyone should have in the QB.
 
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