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Jellyman Thoughts So Far - After 2 Games

jellyman

Heisman Winner
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Jul 25, 2001
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Tough to know how the last 2 games will translate into overall performance in either the OOC or the Big Ten schedules. There are too many new players and younger players whose development will dictate whether RU can do better than expected ... or not.

Still, the season has started (hurray!), so we can now talk basketball.

Team:

1) This team is much more enjoyable to watch, so far, than last year's team ... and yes that even includes consideration of the awful 1st half of the RU-Newark game. Especially on offense. The team moves well, has offensive flow, passes well and is aggressive. That aggressiveness includes pressing.

2) The team still has trouble making 3-pointers. RU still appears to lack shooting (not unexpected). RU HAS to figure out how to get Williams going from 3 if RU wishes to beat expectations.

3) Defense still seems to be a problem. Post defense is okay at best - though Lewis has not played much (bad match-up and fouls in 1st game ... not sure why against Howard). Williams is the only truly quality defender at guard (not saying Sanders may not develop into one, but he is not there yet). Goode looks like he can shoot, but lacks quickness on defense ... When he is in the game RU will play more zone than we are used to seeing.

4) So far, in a small sample size, it is clear to me that RU's 3 best players (in no particular order) are Freeman, Sanders and Williams. And I do not think it is particularly close, either, the next next set of players.

5) RU's post players are going to have to do better being READY to catch the ball: Sanders' passes are really excellent, setting up RU's post players really well ... but they do not always seem ready to do something with the ball when the pass gets to them.

6) It looks like Jordan is still experimenting with different combinations and substitution patterns, seeing what works better versus worse. Which is fine at this stage of the season. He still has to figure out the right balance with Lewis, Diallo, Freeman, Foreman and Laurent in the front court. Against Howard, RU played a lot with Foreman Freeman, with 2 guards and Grier or Laurent, or even 3 guards.

Players:

1) Williams: Other than the 3-point shooting, he has been the most consistent player over the 1st 2 games: Consistently high energy, consistently tough on defense, consistent rebounding. He also has been aggressive towards the rim. I like. Still, RU REALLY could use him to shoot at least 33% from 3-point range on the season ... he is not there yet.

2) Freeman: Excellent start, and you can tell he is a very good player. He is not as purely talented as Jack, and is not as good a scorer as Jack. BUT he is strong, tough and aggressive, so far. He looks to be a decent FT shooter. He is a good rebounder. AND ... he is an excellent interior passer ... and LOOKS to pass, despite his aggressive offensive mindset. I would not say he is better than Jack (some have said so) - but he is much more of a team player, operating within a team concept ... based on just 2 games against lesser competition. He played well when RU was pressing, showing active hands.

3) Sanders: I like. A true pure PG, it looks like, even after just 1 game. His passes are ... GOOD. They are not fancy or flashy. They are just crisp, clean, simple and generally right to the correct spot and team-mate against the defense. His passes find the holes in the defense. He aggressively looks to pass to the post (can any of you remember being endlessly frustrated by the RU guards near REFUSAL to pass to the post for much of the last 3-4 years or even longer? Yes, he hit 1 late 3, but it is clear his shooting consistency is still a work in progress. Though his FT shooting looks to be good.

4) Foreman: People in my section do not like him, or think he is any good. I think he is improved. But RU does need him to keep getting better. He is visibly stronger, and more muscular. He looks BUILT. He is also playing MUCH more under control than he did last season. Might the game be slowing down for him? If so, a good sign - but he still has a ways to go in that area. I thought Foreman remained aggressive (in a positive sense), is still a good rebounder. He seemed pretty effective as the point on RU's press. One are he has GOT to fix: FT shooting. He has a chance with his aggressiveness and physicality to get a LOT of FT's. He had 13 against Howard, but could only make 5. Even 60% FT shooting by Foreman would help RU a LOT.

5) Daniels: I know he scored 9 points and had 4 or 5 assists against Howard. But I see no improvement versus last year in the 1st 2 games. He is still medium at best on defense, very inconsistent with his shooting, and too sloppy with the ball. I expect him to get a low fewer minutes than Williams and Sanders over the course of the season.

6) Lewis: Absent. RU-Newark was a bad match-up (no one over 6'5" - and all perimeter shooters), plus he had foul trouble. But he did not do much, or get a lot of playing time, against Howard. I would think Lewis would be RU's best post defender. Plus he CAN hit a 12-14 foot jumper - we do not if any other RU post player can do that.

7) Laurent: Not sure yet. Shows very good athleticism, which could be a great value to RU. Nice size for a wing. Was really struggling, forcing things in the 1st game, but was much more under control against Howard. Looks to be a decent rebounder for his size. He does like to take the 3-point shot - but does not force it. But it is also not clear whether he can consistently make the 3-point shot either. Way too early to tell how much he will contribute or develop.

8) Grier: I am not that impressed, at this stage. He plays a little out of control, it looks like. And though aggressive, his defense does not look great. His 3-point shot does not look great either. On the other hand, he looked pretty good on the press, I thought. He will play a little, as RU will need his body and athleticism. But my guess is more in spots as the season progresses, rather than consistently part of the rotation. If Laurent develops more, Grier gets less playing time ... if Laurent develops less quickly, Grier gets more playing time.

9) Diallo: Long, athletic and very raw, still. And he is raw defensively as well, not just offensively. I do see him developing into a solid shot-blocker - but it might not be consistent this season. But he is going to be force fed playing time, especially if Doorson ends up missing the entire season (and no, I do not know anything).

10) Goode: Seems to be a fundamentally sound player, with a very good FT stroke, and a potentially good 3-point stroke. But he is very much lacking in athleticism, especially lateral quickness. This makes him a liability on defense. But I certainly see a specific role for him on this team, and you can tell Jordan likes what he DOES bring to the table, that Jordan believes that what Goode brinsg to the table more than offsets the liabilities he brings at this time.

Overall:

Is this team better than last year's team? I have no idea at this time. I think it is way too early to know, just yet. I do think that individually, none of RU's players are better than either Mack or Jack. On the other hand, both Mack and Jack had flaws that severely limited their ability to carry the team except occasionally.

For example, Mack had to be RU's point guard, basically, and was better with the ball in his hands. But any team with a 6'3" or taller athletic guard could completely shut down Mack's greatest asset: His outside shooting. And Mack was not a very good POINT Guard, meaning he did not have the skills to improve the team-mates around him. Also, though a fundamentally sound defender, because of his size, he simply could not successfully defend many of the taller players he was forced to guard. With Jack, there was a different dynamic. He was a real scorer, and could often score against almost anyone that covered him. But he preferred to be on the perimeter (both shooting from there, and starting there and driving into the lane). He was also better with the ball in his hands. But as a consequence, when the ball went into Jack's hands, it tended to disappear, and disrupt any semblance of offensive flow.

Can a team be better with players who individually are NOT as good as the players they replace? Yes, the team can be better ... IF each player on the court enhances the abilities of their teammates. I think RU has a chance to be better defensively (though that is not guaranteed), and could have a more efficient offense. But scoring will still be difficult against better teams, and RU does not appear to have any single player who could even be hoped to take over a game SCORING. Last year RU did have 2 such players in Mack and Jack - even if they did not do it enough, or to a high enough level, for RU to actually win Big Ten games. RU is deeper this year, and more athletic, in my opinion. And has a true point guard for the first time in many years. We will see what that brings, eh?
 
I was just typing this same analysis up. I'll let you go ahead and earn the credit
 
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I agree almost entirely with the analysis. Keeping in mind that the opponents were small, the sample size is small, and we faced zone today.

Bishop Daniels was asked to be the 1 on Friday and then face zone on Sunday. You aren't going to get a clear read.

Greg Lewis was a decent interior defender last year (was slow on rotations today). He wasn't needed to defend a post player yet.

Corey Sanders had a black and white role offensively, attack the zone with the high post pass. He killed it. Against man he will be able to beat defenders off the dribble, but also has a role of facilitator. It gets more gray.

Right now I have to pinch myself and not raise expectations. Thru 2 games I like a lot of the pieces.
 
agree with your assesment not sure why Lewis didn't play much in the second half he is our best shooter. question can Freeman shoot he passed up numerous open 12-15 foot shots today
 
Great analysis Jelly. The one difference for me is that I would say Foreman is clearly one of our top 4 best players, and then I would put Lewis 5th, for now, and there you have a pretty decent starting five.

Foreman not only looks bigger, he looks like he grew an inch since last year. The guy is 6'8, 240, and he can handle the ball, has quick feet and long arms, can score inside, rebound, block shots and defend. The guy is an X-factor who is also a lefty, which makes him harder to defend.

Foreman and Freeman, in all likelihood, will lead the team in double-doubles this year, in my estimation.
 
I agree almost entirely with the analysis. Keeping in mind that the opponents were small, the sample size is small, and we faced zone today.

Bishop Daniels was asked to be the 1 on Friday and then face zone on Sunday. You aren't going to get a clear read.

Greg Lewis was a decent interior defender last year (was slow on rotations today). He wasn't needed to defend a post player yet.

Corey Sanders had a black and white role offensively, attack the zone with the high post pass. He killed it. Against man he will be able to beat defenders off the dribble, but also has a role of facilitator. It gets more gray.

Right now I have to pinch myself and not raise expectations. Thru 2 games I like a lot of the pieces.

Those are all good points: Small sample size against relatively weak opponents, facing only zone vs Howard. Also, I have no idea what this all means against better OOC teams or the Big Ten.

Still ... I have to repeat my point (and yours) about Sanders and his passing, albeit against the zone (and I love your language): He killed it. I know it was against weak competition, but it has been a long time since we have had a guard that has actually gotten the ball to the right player, in the right place on the court, with such terrific consistency (all game long), in ANY game. He easily could have had an additional 3-4 assists, or more, had the RU post players finished better.

I am eager to see how Sanders grows as a point guard as he gains more experience - and as RU's other players get used to playing with him and hopefully improve at finishing (if those 2 things happen).
 
So far I see Sanders and Freeman and we're missing about 6 other parts. My pessimism about Lewis seems justified in his inability to dominate when he has a 4in and 40lb advantage. My optimism for Diallo seems baseless so far. Foreman, the Bishop, Williams all look like they might step up but we've been tantillized before by these Jeff-Grier-types of seemingly competent players that show flashes but no sustained game. Why do so many of our players require so much time and so much space to even consider shooting or driving? Outside of Sanders know no one will dribble toward the hoop and just see what happens.
 
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So far I see Sanders and Freeman and we're missing about 6 other parts. My pessimism about Lewis seems justified in his inability to dominate when he has a 4in and 40lb advantage. My optimism for Diallo seems baseless so far. Foreman, the Bishop, Williams all look like they might step up but we've been tantillized before by these Jeff-Grier-types of seemingly competent players that show flashes but no sustained game. Why do so many of our players require so much time and so much space to even consider shooting or driving? Outside of Sanders know one will dribble toward the hoop and just see what happens.

Just a quick comment......I think it's a VERY GOOD thing that players don't " dribble toward the hoop and just see what happens". I don't think any coach in the entire country is telling guys to do this.

It is better to pass the ball towards the basket.

However, if you referring to dribble penetration, you want your PG (Sanders )to be the main guy doing that. On this team, Williams can do it, Daniels can do it if he picks his spots and Laurent can do it.
 
Don't disagree with most of the original analysis, but a couple of extra points.

I don't mind Williams being aggressive, but at the same time, there are times when he has to put away the "I'm going to get mine!" attitude. He took off and went to rim a couple of times ( which is fine), but needed to kick it out or pull it out all together.

Lewis is still making the same blasted mistake he made 4 years ago. He did it twice against Newark. He backs into his man too hard, drawing a Duke-esque flop (and a charge), and another type he dropped his shoulder into his defender. UGHH. That being said, he does have a very nice touch to 15 feet.

Grier... I like him and think he has a very important role on the team. I disagree with the other poster saying he was out of control. I actually think the exact opposite, that he brings a little maturity and calmness to the floor. After 5 years of college ball, he should!

Daniels is bi-polar. I know that sounds bad, and its not meant to be, but there are times when he will be one of the best players on the floor, then times when he is a rally killer.

BTW, how awesome was it to see actual fast breaks? I loved the Sanders & Freeman fast break, with multiple passes!
 
Just a quick comment......I think it's a VERY GOOD thing that players don't " dribble toward the hoop and just see what happens". I don't think any coach in the entire country is telling guys to do this.
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I've played ball on many levels. I never played for RU but I played a lot of RU players over the years. Most fans over estimate how much a coach controls the game. It's rarely like running football plays. Even in the pros, they follow a basic philosophy but on each play the guy with the ball is sniffing out an opportunity that lasts for tenths of a second. It's unscripted. Penetration or a power dibble opens up sudden opportunities. It can be ugly and awkward, but over time it results in the highest level of play. It's why Sanders can change from the cap and gown of his high school graduation into an RU uniform an be our best player on the court.
 
Great analysis as usual, Jelly.

The one thing I would disagree with (slightly) is your statement that Mack was a "fundamentally sound defender." I actually thought Mack was a sub-par defender, and not (as you correctly point out) just against taller guards. For a guy who was 5-9 and quick, Mack's lateral movement on defense left ALOT to be desired. He often got beat off the dribble, by guards big and small, which you wouldn't expect from a guy his size. I had expected Mack to be the sort of tenacious "little guy" defender that Providence College had about 10 years ago (can't recall his name), but he just never became that kind of guy.

With Sanders, I feel like we will get better on-ball defense than we got with Mack. That could be worth quite a bit in the grand scheme of things.
 
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That Providence guard was John Linehan, I believe.

Little did we know he would only be the second biggest pain in the ____ guard from Providence....
 
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Great analysis as usual, Jelly.

The one thing I would disagree with (slightly) is your statement that Mack was a "fundamentally sound defender." I actually thought Mack was a sub-par defender, and not (as you correctly point out) just against taller guards. For a guy who was 5-9 and quick, Mack's lateral movement on defense left ALOT to be desired. He often got beat off the dribble, by guards big and small, which you wouldn't expect from a guy his size. I had expected Mack to be the sort of tenacious "little guy" defender that Providence College had about 10 years ago (can't recall his name), but he just never became that kind of guy.

With Sanders, I feel like we will get better on-ball defense than we got with Mack. That could be worth quite a bit in the grand scheme of things.


I agree. I guess I missed that part of Jelly's analysis.

No doubt Sanders potentially helps us as a "point" guard, but I'm hoping his defense will be at worst OK. This would give him heads and shoulders value over anything we have had here in a long time.
 
I think it's a little naive to think that good PG's will not get into the lane. One on One Perimeter D was not good last year, but, the help defense was also bad. Jordan specifically stated on multiple times that last years players did not grasp the concepts of rotational defense and help defense.

In only 2 games, the help side D is visibly better. Lets see them keep it up as the opposition improves.
 
I think it's a little naive to think that good PG's will not get into the lane. One on One Perimeter D was not good last year, but, the help defense was also bad. Jordan specifically stated on multiple times that last years players did not grasp the concepts of rotational defense and help defense.

In only 2 games, the help side D is visibly better. Lets see them keep it up as the opposition improves.
 
That Providence guard was John Linehan, I believe.

Little did we know he would only be the second biggest pain in the ____ guard from Providence....

Bubba - this was fantastic! I can't believe nobody else is making a big deal of your sly wit here...well done!!!

:clap::fistbump:
 
In only 2 games, the help side D is visibly better. Lets see them keep it up as the opposition improves.

Agreed. SJU on the road on Thurs. is a good early test. They are young too and not picked to do well in the BE. But, seeing how this team performs on the road against better athletes like the SJU team may tell us a lot.
 
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