Liz has entered her name into the portal smh.
This one I’m placing squarely on Tim. He has completely misused the talented Sophomore class.
This one I’m placing squarely on Tim. He has completely misused the talented Sophomore class.
Liz Martino
- Thread starter Rufan07
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"Liz has entered her name into the portal smh.
This one I’m placing squarely on Tim. He has completely misused the talented Sophomore class."
Ditto, f'ing ditto.
Next will be Chyna, and Sakima. I talk out loud to Tim all the time, and tell him to play them, no damn point anymore giving all the time to all those that will be gone next year.
If HOBBS doesn't immediately get rid of him now, he is becoming a bigger part of this total collapse.
Funny I was reading Raoul last night, and was glad it was quiet, dumb me.
Posted a thread back in November saying she needed to be put in a leadership role, the article from SK.com is now missing, hmmm.
This one I’m placing squarely on Tim. He has completely misused the talented Sophomore class."
Ditto, f'ing ditto.
Next will be Chyna, and Sakima. I talk out loud to Tim all the time, and tell him to play them, no damn point anymore giving all the time to all those that will be gone next year.
If HOBBS doesn't immediately get rid of him now, he is becoming a bigger part of this total collapse.
Funny I was reading Raoul last night, and was glad it was quiet, dumb me.
Posted a thread back in November saying she needed to be put in a leadership role, the article from SK.com is now missing, hmmm.
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Uh oh!!!! Better make a change at coach before others follow. The time is RIGHT now!
Seeing Diamond's success and Zippy's recent success with her new team has to feed the notion of the grass being greener somewhere else. Can't blame any of our young players if they are considering other places.
Seeing Diamond's success and Zippy's recent success with her new team has to feed the notion of the grass being greener somewhere else. Can't blame any of our young players if they are considering other places.
Without a change, we are running the risk of losing the new HS commits also. Definitely won't get any more commitments.
I don't blame her. His handling of her playing time this season was HORRIBLE!!
Agree 1000%! As AD, no way I would allow the talent we do have still here to walk out the door and leave your next coach with absolutely nothing. You have some good young talent that provide a good launching point for a new coach to be competitive from the onset.
Inaction at this point is showing no consideration for the young ladies who put their trust in this University. It would really be a bad look for the AD to allow this to continue on his watch.
I understand how you feel. Chyna, Sakima, and Liz have been sorely misused in my opinion also. They have been deserving of more time all season. They should have gotten a lot more of Tyia's minutes when she was not playing well, which has been often this season. Should also have been in before Destiny and Awa in the post.
That said, I think it would be wrong to punish the transfers because they will not be here next year. This is it for them. They didn't come here to completely waste their extra year. Having them sit and watch the end of our bench play down the stretch of this season would be the worst thing we could do. I think that totally takes us out of the minds of future recruits for many years. Makes it harder for even a new coach to regain their trust in and respect for the RUWBB program.
My thing always in team sports is to play the best players. Tim has not put his best out there together for extended periods without breaking it up with questionable subs. Chyna, Sakima, and Liz belong in that category of our best players.
And Sanderlin showed she also belonged. They mishandled her because they should have redshirted her since they took on so many transfers who play the guard position.
I think this has less to do with Eatman coaching and more to do with CVS not. These girls did not come to play for Tim. They came to play for CVS. Tim has done a horrible job this year. But he is not to blame. This thing has been mismanaged since April.
All the players are in the portal
already because of the way Tim is running the program.
Liz is hust leaving the $#!t behind.
already because of the way Tim is running the program.
Liz is hust leaving the $#!t behind.
Yes, these girls came to play for CVS but Liz has been severely mishandled by Tim. You could see how disinterested she had become with the team and who wouldn’t. Out of all the freshman that stayed, Liz had the most game experience last year. This year she hardly saw the floor and you can’t tell me that she wouldn’t have contributed had she had more playing time. No one outside of Osh Brown is filling the stat sheets this year. Liz deserved a chance to contribute to the team!
You can't blame this year's rotations on CVS. Tim is the one who decides who plays and who doesn't. His choices on the matter have been horrible from Game 1. You don't give the players that have been with the program the short end of the stick, and expect them to stick around. So no, I don't blame Liz, or any other of returners if they choose to transfer because this year has been bull. Liz should have played more, Chyna should play more, and Sakima should play more. Period.
The grad transfer's play have been more times than not subpar and not deserving of the playing time they get. I could care less about this being their last year, it's all about the good of the team and what makes the team better, and in the best possible position to win.
CVS needs to retire at the end of this season, and Tim needs to go ASAP!
The grad transfer's play have been more times than not subpar and not deserving of the playing time they get. I could care less about this being their last year, it's all about the good of the team and what makes the team better, and in the best possible position to win.
CVS needs to retire at the end of this season, and Tim needs to go ASAP!
Why is this train wreck also not partly on C Viv, who assembled a less than competent staff and has put the whole team in a state of flux? Fully appreciate all she has done at Rutgers and she has been a positive throughout, but at this point she is beginning to tarnish an extremely strong legacy as she will be unable to rebuild this train wreck.
It most certainly is on CVS
Very disappointed- before the season thought Liz would be our 3 point specialist. Can’t blame her for leaving. No matter who coaches next year, it will be tough since most of our transfers that came in this year will be out of eligibility and whoever else decides to leave we will have to rebuild our roster again
Agree 100% this shtshow is all on her and as I have said her holding Hobbs and the Rutgers athletic department hostage; this just 100% wipes out all the good she has done here in the past and Rutgers needs to move on ASAP as we will have trouble at this point even fielding a team next year unless we get a new young energetic coach and because of this I want no one any way remotely associated with CVS we need a complete break and a fresh start and trust me Hobbs is 100% already working on this
CVS is absolutely to blame. I agree Tim has not managed the team all that well but CVS mismanaged the rotation last year. The youngsters got very little time which lead to the heir apparent to transfer. She is also the one that created the circumstances that surround this teams failures. Weak coaching staff, incompetent replacement,mass exodus of players, mass influx of new players that never met with CVS and general lack of fan support can be attributed to CVS.
Even if the bottom line had been much better, I would have lost interest. With the lack of continuity over the years, I just think of the team as less RU. On top of that, CVS in her best years never seemed as enthusiastic about the university as a whole as the other coaches. She loves her program and her players, but I never hear her talking up the university or expressing enthusiasm about the other programs. Her first contemporary, Kevin Bannon, for all his problems, was always around different events like baseball and basketball games, enthusiastic for his fellow coaches’ teams. Teresa Gretz, who was a bit quirky herself, was always there to get on the officials on behalf of the men’s team. Nowadays, Pike is always talking the other teams up as well as the University. I have seen CVS once at a football banquet when her son was on the team and once sitting directly in back of John Chaney at the Temple game never once applauding an RU basket. I’m sure there’s more, but she’s just never been much of a presence.
To be fair, I think her responsibilities at home might have something to do with "a lack of presence".
I have been living with similar responsibilities at home for the past 18 years, so I understand what you’re saying better than most. She still has more than adequate opportunity to show she cares about RU. I don’t think I am being unfair.
only way this disaster is on Stringer isf her LOA and Tim being put in charge because of that.
I will admit by not going into an administrative position and retiring as HC made Eatman the logical choice as interim HC because of how the team played under him , in a very short period, when he took over for Vivian in 2019.
Your point is well-taken about her lack of presence on campus. Some coaches are more visible than others. With that said, I think you're being a little hard on CVS.
Everybody's different personality-wise. She's always been a passionate, driven, laser focused type coach. Who knows why she may not have been more visible at other sport events but I do know this........No other coach has done more to serve the reputation of Rutgers University than CVS. Over her tenure, she and the women's program have brought more positive national attention to the University than any other program. Her reputation and well-respected character, as she sports the Rutgers red blazers and suit jackets on the national stage year in and year out have talked up the university more than any other name I can think of, and that's including people other than coaches. Greg Schiano is getting to that level if he can right the ship again with the football team. Same goes for Pike, if he can get the men to the next level.
The other programs are having tons of success but those coaches don't have the national recognition of a football or basketball coach. And I don't really recall them really talking up the RUWBB program or coming to a lot of the games. Heck, someone posted just recently about how the attendance, even during CVS' best years was subpar . Since those days, let's be honest, there's been a significant portion of fans that have not been the most supportive of her and just want to see her gone. Even when the team started to perform well again, they remained silent and seemed to look forward to a loss to come out of the woodwork with more anti-CVS talk. Local media also has never really embraced her or the program, generally speaking.
IDK, but maybe some of that figures into some of the lack of presence around campus. Only CVS know, all we can do is speculate.
Oh, and lastly, .....we all know her relationship with her mentor back at Cheney St, John Chaney. We can't really criticize her for doing what I think most of us would do in that situation, can we? And I'm sure she would have gotten criticism if she's right behind the Temple bench clapping it up for RU. Chaney nor his team, nor the surrounding Temple fans would have appreciated that.
I would disagree in several respects. One of my points was that people have less tendency to get behind a revolving door personnel team. This came into play for RU WBB long before covid.
I think the media worked hard to embrace her in the early years; I think you know that she does not do much to make herself embraceable. This was not TG's strong suit either, but she did a far better job than CVS.
I completely disagree with you on the Cheney thing. There are many friendships in the coaching fraternity. I have not seen something like that, and most of us, if we were in that position, would NOT do that. During the game, if you are RU, you need to be unambiguously RU.
I think the media worked hard to embrace her in the early years; I think you know that she does not do much to make herself embraceable. This was not TG's strong suit either, but she did a far better job than CVS.
I completely disagree with you on the Cheney thing. There are many friendships in the coaching fraternity. I have not seen something like that, and most of us, if we were in that position, would NOT do that. During the game, if you are RU, you need to be unambiguously RU.
Regarding the question of who's to blame. What are we talking about the whole situation or Liz's departure?
IMO, this year's results reflect on CVS because Tim and the staff fall under her umbrella. That being said, Tim bears responsibility for how he carries himself while assuming HC duties. It may just be unfortunate that Nadine came on staff a year or so after Tim. If she came onboard before him, we may be having a different conversation.
Im with Mad in that none of us had reason to believe Tim would stink it up so badly. He did a respectable job when stepping in before.
If CVS can no longer have input once taking the leave of absence, and the AD is the one who signs off on promoting Tim to acting-HC, then I would think that places responsibility squarely on the AD to act on the current unacceptable situation.
Some are pointing at CVS and saying she created this, and suggesting that last year created this. Was last year's coaching perfect? No, not at all. Nobody's perfect and would do some things different in hindsight. But to say that Tim has messed up a little this year but CVS messed it up last year is to grossly understate the former and overstate the latter, respectively. The young players that were ready or close to ready played last year under CVS alongside an experienced core. Tim has been a TOTAL train wreck so far this season.
So, IMO, I agree with others who feel that Liz's departure is solely on Tim. His personnel usage is INSANE!!
IMO, this year's results reflect on CVS because Tim and the staff fall under her umbrella. That being said, Tim bears responsibility for how he carries himself while assuming HC duties. It may just be unfortunate that Nadine came on staff a year or so after Tim. If she came onboard before him, we may be having a different conversation.
Im with Mad in that none of us had reason to believe Tim would stink it up so badly. He did a respectable job when stepping in before.
If CVS can no longer have input once taking the leave of absence, and the AD is the one who signs off on promoting Tim to acting-HC, then I would think that places responsibility squarely on the AD to act on the current unacceptable situation.
Some are pointing at CVS and saying she created this, and suggesting that last year created this. Was last year's coaching perfect? No, not at all. Nobody's perfect and would do some things different in hindsight. But to say that Tim has messed up a little this year but CVS messed it up last year is to grossly understate the former and overstate the latter, respectively. The young players that were ready or close to ready played last year under CVS alongside an experienced core. Tim has been a TOTAL train wreck so far this season.
So, IMO, I agree with others who feel that Liz's departure is solely on Tim. His personnel usage is INSANE!!
Yes, I agree that if you are RU, you need to be unambiguously RU. At the same time, we have to think that a person can be that and still take advantage of an opportunity to sit behind their mentor and observe him at work,.....from a basketball coaching standpoint. Her sitting behind him doesn't signify that she is supporting Temple and not RU.
It's a show of the ultimate respect to someone you regard as a lifetime friend, family, so to speak. Hosting, not just family, but your mentor in your house, I know if I were in that situation and had a chance to sit behind my old HS coach who was a mentor, and like a second father to many of us, and watch him at work again, that's an opportunity I would not pass up.
Think about it like this.........You coach a sport at RU but your son or daughter is the coach of a different sport for another school that come to RAC to play RU. Would you feel as though you couldn't sit in close proximity to your child to watch them up close because you are RU all the way?
These situations are when we need to keep things in perspective and realize that it is a game we are talking about in comparison to personal relationships.
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Tim's previous situation the rotation and pattern was well established and he needed to implement it.
This year a new issue was personnel and team chemistry related, complicated because the transfers were more game ready than our heralded recruited class.
Sadly, he has gone for the immediate results, which have not produced and have sacrificed our future.
That’s the second time you have referred to him as her “mentor.” I don’t get that. Cheney state was the first college HC job for both of them, staring the same year. In fact, based on some of her other reactions to various things, she probably would be upset at you for presuming him to be her mentor. She would probably be giving you a lecture about being a professional in her own right and with equal standing etc. The bottom line is that their relationship was a friendship; once again, there are many friendships in the business. The comparison to your child playing another sport just doesn’t hold up.
here's what CVS said about her relationship with John Cheney
Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Coach John Chaney was a dear friend and mentor of Rutgers women's basketball head coach C. Vivian Stringer. John passed away at the age of 89 on Jan. 29, 2021.Coach Stringer penned the following memorial in honor of the legendary life and basketball career of John Chaney.
Reflections on a Life Well Lived: A Collection of Thoughts and Reminiscences on Coach John Chaney from C. Vivian Stringer
>Coach John Chaney has been the person I have strived most to imitate and emulate throughout my professional career. I have known Coach Chaney for 48 years - - almost a half-century. At many levels, he was singularly responsible for the Coach I have become - - my basketball career, my basketball brand, and the incredible life I have been blessed to lead. In a very large part, much of the success I have enjoyed was due to his teaching, tutelage, and invaluable mentorship. His style became my own; we thought alike; we taught alike; we practiced alike; and our philosophical conversations on basketball fundamentals were both epic and enlightening.
Coach Chaney arrived at Cheyney State a year after me, in 1972. He was the first coach, male or female, that took the time to teach and mentor me on the game of basketball.<
https://scarletknights.com/news/202...er-honors-the-life-career-of-john-chaney.aspx
Agreed. When you think about it, the previous situation he had players who were experienced in the system and had plenty of game experience. Many of them were actually transfers also but had the coaching of CVS up until Tim's takeover. Yes, the rotations were well established and players were comfortable playing with each other.
Yes, the platoon system he used with that group once taking over for CVS had plenty of success until CC and CJ, two key pieces to the quality depth, were put off the team. He should have employed that strategy this year, like many of us predicted that he would.. His mixing of players with poor chemistry has been THE biggest problem .....along with poor offensive sets.
As far as going for immediate results........IDK. .....IMO, he seems like he goes on seniority instead of his best at each position. The combos that he has gone with make me think that he's really not trying to win games. I said it before, jokingly, ..semi-jokingly, that Tim is throwing the game. I think he really just is a poor evaluator of talent I don't think he believes in these players.
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On this, you are simply wrong, as Madhat documents with Vivian's own words. I was also present when she was inducted into the WBB Hall of Fame and we actually sat at the table with Chaney at the "This Is Your Life" style post induction event. I also - in 15 years of following the program, including away games, ending in 2011 when we left NJ - I saw frequent examples of her talking up RU, talking up other sports at RU, and yes, sometimes praising other coaches at Rutgers that, in the end, were on their way to failure.
Yes, she was not hugely available (although, I understand, she never said no if Rutgers asked it of her) and her reason was given as her daughter. I am not judging that.
At this point, the program has crashed and burned. Whether or not I think she is 100% responsible is immaterial, I believe her position has largely become untenable. If she was coaching this year's team, well, who knows? But she isn't, the team appears to be failing and as others said, I don't think she is really the one to rebuild next year.
Who cares anymore. We will be lucky to field a team next year. I will buy my annual season tickets to support the university and probably give them away every game. Really sad to witness this epic collapse.
There is no way to recruit right now and you have to think many girls on the team have reached out to their high school and AAU coaches to test the waters. Hobbs needs to make an announcement in the next couple weeks that we are beginning a National search for a new coach. This circus and money pit can’t be allowed to continue.
Spot on. Even if it was announced that CVS was returning next year - if you were a high profile recruit would you commit to RU given CVS age, her health issues and the fact she has taken a leave of absence in each of the last two seasons? Moves need to be made now.
The respect CVS has all across the women's basketball world would get recruits wanting to play for her despite her age and the 5 year extension would have recruits feel she'd be their Coach
But thinking about what you implied about Stringer having a hard time getting HS talent to commit to Rutgers because of her age,in which I disagree, makes me think of the another reasons you pointed out that might have HS talent think twice about committing to play for a Stringer lead RU WBB program.
Her time taken off from coaching , because of exhaustion,.in 2019 and now this LOA would make a lot of HS talent wonder if she'd be there all of thir time at Rutgers or if time has caught with her and she wouldn't have the same drive that made her one of the best and might just pack it in at anytime because the flame died out of her desire to coach
In the recruiting wars that would be a useful tool for programs going after the same talent Stringer's trying to convince to play for her.
With the way Stringer's exhaustion this current LOA being ligitimit issues recruits will be pointed to, RU recruiting might have more to overcome than CVS' reputation can overcome.
So you're right about the need to move now in order to secure this program's future sucess
I was not saying her age alone would be a factor but that the combination of her age, health (exhaustion issue), and her two LOAs would give recruits pause.
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