Looking back, why was the 1993 season a failure?

[RUTGERS95]

I liked Graber. I liked his high scoring offenses and the talent he brought in. Those teams were so close but it was the 7-4 snub that did him in. Joe Pa went in to kids houses and pointed out that snub.

Doug did have talent on D but depth was the issue as mentioned above. He also did not run a tight ship as also mentioned. I would compare Doug to Flood all around but Flood did get us bowling with a very tough BIG schedule. As much as I liked Flood and Graber their lack of discipline led to attrition and the guys who took their places did worse but the program was heading south for both of those guys.

Say what you want about Greg. One could say "hey Schian where's the O?" But he came in twice and rebuilt this program. Anyone with eyes can see this. Some refuse to admit it.

absolute night and day in support and behind the scenes items but more importantly, coach Graber had no Bob

being a program builder, something I think Greg does extremely well, is far different than the discussion at hand, issues, support, budget, NJ legislature attitude, academic support, etc etc etc. Graber truly had an uphill battle but what he did was coach very well on Gameday, recruit, and evaluate talent. He tried to keep things together but with zero support, it's impossible.

 

[e5fdny]

Cocksure…won’t lie, had to look it up!

You? Sure you did. 🙄




😜

 

[RUBOB72]

Doug Graber knew football and if he had the support of RU we would have been way ahead of Greg’s first rebuild .Terry Shea knew offense but he too lacked support.

 

[Brisket and Bourbon]

You? Sure you did. 🙄




😜

Seriously…I pride my self in a better than average vocabulary but I had to M-W it…🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[RUBOB72]

Yes , can’t forget Jerry Moore Elizabeth’s HC. We had a great pipeline. Often wondered if Rutgers had a Gil Chapman. .

 

[RUBOB72]

So cocksure and cocknose . Only at Rutgers.

 

[Big East Beast]

The team was coming off a 7-4 season in 1992. They had Ray Lucas, Bruce Presley, Terrell Willis, Marco Battaglia and others on offense and Malik Jackson, Anthony Cauthen, Brian Sheridan and others on defense. How is it that the team only won 4 games?

I think in hindsight, it’s pretty obvious talented skill position players aren’t as nearly as important as linemen and player retention.

Graber struggled with both of these issues, as well as discipline both on and off the field.

The team would make a few great plays then shoot themselves in the proverbial foot with frustrating consistency.

 

[e5fdny]

Look at the resume of both guys.

Greg was exposed to the inner workings of two of the really great programs in college football (three of you count his time at tOSU pre-2.0). And was a GA in one that just pretended to be, us. So he learned from the first two what needed to be done here.

Other than the stint at Wisky, when they weren’t good at all, Doug wasn’t around or exposed to high level CFB or see what needed to be done.

All things considered (especially after some of the info presented by others in the thread) not bad here.

 

[e5fdny]

Seriously…I pride my self in a better than average vocabulary but I had to M-W it…🤷🏻‍♂️

😉

 

[RUTGERS95]

Look at the resume of both guys.

Greg was exposed to the inner workings of two of the really great programs in college football (three of you count his time at tOSU pre-2.0). And was a GA in one that just pretended to be, us. So he learned from the first two what needed to be done here.

Other than the stint at Wisky when they weren’t good at all Doug wasn’t around or exposed to high level CFB or see what needed to be done.

All things considered (especially after some of the info presented by others in the thread) not bad here.

excellent point

 

[Extra Point]

I don't think there is a question if Graber was a good coach or not, he was a great coach. He started the football luncheons and would run video plays of the last game and he could explain exactly what was supposed to happen, and maybe some errors that players made. Schiano stopped the luncheons because he could not explain offensive plays. Graber came from the NFL and he ended up coaching a Canadian team to the championship game.

 

[hinson32]

Elizabeth HS was very good to RU back then. Coach Jerry forget his last name made every player put RU in their Top 5.

Moore

 

[Extra Point]

I don't think there is a question if Graber was a good coach or not, he was a great coach. He started the football luncheons and would run video plays of the last game and he could explain exactly what was supposed to happen, and maybe some errors that players made. Schiano stopped the luncheons because he could not explain offensive plays. Graber came from the NFL and he ended up coaching a Canadian team to the championship game.

Maybe Schiano didn't do the luncheons to not give away information about plays IDK.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Look at the resume of both guys.

Greg was exposed to the inner workings of two of the really great programs in college football (three of you count his time at tOSU pre-2.0). And was a GA in one that just pretended to be, us. So he learned from the first two what needed to be done here.

Other than the stint at Wisky, when they weren’t good at all, Doug wasn’t around or exposed to high level CFB or see what needed to be done.

All things considered (especially after some of the info presented by others in the thread) not bad here.

Graber was exposed to the NFL. Any NFL team is greater exposure than 99% of major college football. His lack of success spoke more about the ma-and-pop leadership in the athletic department and school president. You had an AD who fought you at every step of the way and a school president who was aloof. If Graber didn't go above Freddy G's head, Rutgers might still be playing in that old stadium or all of its games at the Meadowlands. Even Dick Anderson, who was at Penn State, knew what it took to build a program and got little to no support.

Doug Graber tried to convince Freddy G and company to spend money to keep most of the team on campus during the summer for workouts and summer school. He was denied, and that was part of the problem with several players having issues staying eligible. Any given summer, you might have had 20 players on campus for anything. Until a change in the AD, Rutgers was stuck in minor league sports. It wasn't as if the previous coaches before Schiano didn't try, they just didn't have support in critical positions. Mulcahy made it much easier for Schiano to fulfill his demands to build a successful program.

 

[ScarletNut]

Many guys make it to NFL camps. Doesn't mean they made it to the NFL like Lucas did.

No kidding. Teel and Nova are the only ones I can think to get to an NFL camp since the Graber years (I don't count Savage since he was a Pitt grad). So yeah, 3 on one roster getting to NFL camps is a big deal.

 

[e5fdny]

Graber was exposed to the NFL. Any NFL team is greater exposure than 99% of major college football. His lack of success spoke more about the ma-and-pop leadership in the athletic department and school president. You had an AD who fought you at every step of the way and a school president who was aloof. If Graber didn't go above Freddy G's head, Rutgers might still be playing in that old stadium or all of its games at the Meadowlands. Even Dick Anderson, who was at Penn State, knew what it took to build a program and got little to no support.

Doug Graber tried to convince Freddy G and company to spend money to keep most of the team on campus during the summer for workouts and summer school. He was denied, and that was part of the problem with several players having issues staying eligible. Any given summer, you might have had 20 players on campus for anything. Until a change in the AD, Rutgers was stuck in minor league sports. It wasn't as if the previous coaches before Schiano didn't try, they just didn't have support in critical positions. Mulcahy made it much easier for Schiano to fulfill his demands to build a successful program.

Well the Chiefs (other than one season) and the Bucs didn’t do anything while he was there. And were certainly not considered model organizations that Greg had to work with and learn from. So not sure how much that translates to
to the job at hand which was trying to run a something that really didn’t know what it wanted to be.

But all the other stuff you mentioned was covered already…so as I said before all the things he had to deal with (and not get)…overall, not so bad.

 

[rutgersal]

I don't think there is a question if Graber was a good coach or not, he was a great coach. He started the football luncheons and would run video plays of the last game and he could explain exactly what was supposed to happen, and maybe some errors that players made. Schiano stopped the luncheons because he could not explain offensive plays. Graber came from the NFL and he ended up coaching a Canadian team to the championship game.

Graber should have stayed in the NFL because he was awful as a college football coach. he left the Rutgers roster worse off than how he found it, when his tenure ended after 5 years. The talent and depth is supposed to get better as you go along. By the end of 1995, everyone with a brain knew he wasn’t going to get it done, which is why he was whacked.

Terry Shea literally inherited a bare cupboard, which is why Corey Valentine was our opening day starter, but Mike Stephen’s finished up, Chad Bosch was our starting running back, and Steve Harper was our leading receiver in 1996. We’ve had awful seasons, but 1996 was probably the most most awful I can remember,

Even when we went winless in ‘97, that wasn’t so bad because at least Mike McMahon showed promise.

People also conveniently forget that one of the biggest reasons Schiano turned Rutgers around,
Was due to the significant numbers of Florida players that he recruited in the early aughts. This was due to his strong Florida recruiting ties, and having Mario Cristobal on staff, who made many redeye trips to Florida, to recruit. For the 2006 season, we had at least 20 kids from Florida. In contrast, Graber recruited a handful of Florida players like Keif Bryant, but nowhere near Schiano numbers.

 

[e5fdny]

Graber should have stayed in the NFL because he was awful as a college football coach. he left the Rutgers roster worse off than how he found it. The talent and depth is supposed to get better as you go along. By the end of 1995, everyone with a brain knew he wasn’t going to get it done, which is why he was whacked.

Terry Shea literally inherited a bare cupboard, which is why Corey Valentine was our opening day starter, but Mike Stephen’s finished up, Chad Bosch was our starting running back, and Steve Harper was our leading receiver in 1996. We’ve had awful seasons, but 1996 was probably the most most awful I can remember,

Even when we went winless in ‘97, that wasn’t so bad because at least Mike McMahon showed promise.

People also conveniently forget that one of the biggest reasons Schiano turned Rutgers around,
Was due to the significant numbers of Florida players that he recruited in the early aughts. This was due to his strong Florida recruiting ties, and having Mario Cristobal on staff, who made many redeye trips to Florida, to recruit. For the 2006 season, we had at least 20 kids from Florida. In contrast, Graber recruited a handful of Florida players like Keif Bryant, but nowhere near Schiano numbers.

Which was explained earlier in the thread.

- He had an AD who was on the same page
- Florida exposure because of being at Miami when it was The U. He saw what was needed there (just like at State Penn) to get the job done
- Time here as a GA that let him know how far behind we were in everything by the time he became the HC

The cupboard was already bare when Doug Graber got here because there wasn’t anything in it to begin with (academic support, a mission from the University on what they really wanted to be in Athletics and of course no $$$).

@cubuffsdoug and others in thread have explained this already.

Has Greg done wonders here? Of course.

Did Doug do something while he was here with many obstacles in his path? Sure did.

 

[rutgersal]

Which was explained earlier in the thread.

- He had an AD who was on the same page
- Florida exposure because of being at Miami when it was The U. He saw what was needed there (just like at State Penn) to get the job done
- Time here as a GA that let him know how far behind we were in everything by the time he became the HC

The cupboard was already bare when Doug Graber got here because there wasn’t anything in it to begin with (academic support, a mission from the University on what they really wanted to be in Athletics and of course no $$$).

@cubuffsdoug and others in thread have explained this already.

Has Greg done wonders here? Of course.

Did Doug do something while he was here with many obstacles in his path? Sure did.

As far as the first point is concerned, it was that Schiano had a plan for success, thx to his Miami and Penn State experience which the AD supported and helped him execute. Every dollar of additional support was negotiated. This resulted in the following:

Not only were we at the bottom of Division 1 in football on the field,” Mulcahy said, “but our academic performance and graduation level was at about the 50 percent level.”

Renovations to the Hale Center added two academic centers with five times as many computers. Schiano plucked Scott Walker, then an assistant coach at Cornell, to become the full-time director of academic support and implement a structure for the team to follow.

But the change really started with a commitment from the head coach. Schiano took fewer academic risks in recruiting and allowed no wiggle room in the classroom, even if that meant losses on the field.

“The key in making this happen,” Mulcahy said, “is that the coach needs to enforce the mandate.”

Schiano did that. The ranking is not just a reflection where Rutgers is today, but of how far the program has come.

Politi: Academic success may be Schiano's greatest achievement

Coach turned things around in the classroom and on the field

www.nj.com

 

[e5fdny]

As far as the first point is concerned, it was that Schiano had a plan for success, thx to his Miami and Penn State experience which the AD supported and helped him execute. Every dollar of additional support was negotiated. This resulted in the following:

Not only were we at the bottom of Division 1 in football on the field,” Mulcahy said, “but our academic performance and graduation level was at about the 50 percent level.”

Renovations to the Hale Center added two academic centers with five times as many computers. Schiano plucked Scott Walker, then an assistant coach at Cornell, to become the full-time director of academic support and implement a structure for the team to follow.

But the change really started with a commitment from the head coach. Schiano took fewer academic risks in recruiting and allowed no wiggle room in the classroom, even if that meant losses on the field.

“The key in making this happen,” Mulcahy said, “is that the coach needs to enforce the mandate.”

Schiano did that. The ranking is not just a reflection where Rutgers is today, but of how far the program has come.

Politi: Academic success may be Schiano's greatest achievement

Coach turned things around in the classroom and on the field

www.nj.com

Which is what I said 2x now. 🙂

 

[DJ Spanky]

No kidding. Teel and Nova are the only ones I can think to get to an NFL camp since the Graber years (I don't count Savage since he was a Pitt grad). So yeah, 3 on one roster getting to NFL camps is a big deal.

You're forgetting McMahon.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Which is what I said 2x now. 🙂

Graber slept with al's girl, so you're pissing in the wind.

 

[rurichdog]

No kidding. Teel and Nova are the only ones I can think to get to an NFL camp since the Graber years (I don't count Savage since he was a Pitt grad). So yeah, 3 on one roster getting to NFL camps is a big deal.

Mike McMahon was drafted in the 5th round. Ray Lucas was an undrafted free agent signing.

 

[rutgersal]

Which is what I said 2x now. 🙂

If you go towards the beginning of the thread, you’ll see that I said it first. 😉

Lots of revisionist history in this thread. I don’t care if Graber had the best AD and best support in the world. Graber never would have:

• Held players and coaches accountable like Schiano does
• Recruited Florida like Schiano does
• Implemented a thorough recruiting process like Schiano has. Every recruit has been thoroughly vetted, which takes lots of man hours, to ensure they are self motivated
• Sent as many kids to the NFL from Rutgers as Schiano has
• Had ties to area coaches like Schiano has
• Toted the snake oil like Schiano does
• Had players that academically achieved like Schiano’s players have
• Worked as hard as Schiano does

The first point is most important.
the biggest reason why Schiano has succeeded at Rutgers is because kids and coaches know if they’re not doing the right thing, his foot is going to be up their you know where, so fast. Unlike Graber, He holds people to account.

That’s why this year, we are going into the season with the strongest, most prepared Rutgers Football Team ever assembled. I don’t have to worry about whether our players:

• Spent enough time in the film room
• Spent enough time in the weight room
• Spent enough time in the classroom
• Spent enough time on homework

I have the luxury of taking these things for granted, thanks to Greg Schiano. Didn’t feel the same way under Doug Graber.

Even the Penn State Fans who were with me were impressed with the size of our players, as they made their way to the Beaver Stadium Field. One thing our team does not lack for is work ethic. Now it’s a matter of continuing to build the talent base.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Doug was a great coach, awesome recruiter and well liked. He had zero admin support. If he had half of what Greg had, RU would be much different today

Schiano required/fought for it.

 

[TRU2RU]

I don't think there is a question if Graber was a good coach or not, he was a great coach. He started the football luncheons and would run video plays of the last game and he could explain exactly what was supposed to happen, and maybe some errors that players made. Schiano stopped the luncheons because he could not explain offensive plays. Graber came from the NFL and he ended up coaching a Canadian team to the championship game.

Total BS. Schiano did the luncheons for years until he took over as D coordinator & head coach & he explained that he would not have the time to continue to have the luncheon's

 

[RUTGERS95]

You're forgetting McMahon.

imho, the best QB we've ever had

 

[ScarletNut]

Mike McMahon was drafted in the 5th round. Ray Lucas was an undrafted free agent signing.

Yes. My point though was how unusual for a program like Rutgers to have 3 NFL camp-worthy QBs on the roster.

 

[DJ Spanky]

imho, the best QB we've ever had

He definitely benefited from the fact that Shea was a true QB coach.

 

[e5fdny]

• If you go towards the beginning of the thread, you’ll see that I said it first. 😉

Lots of revisionist history in this thread. I don’t care if Graber had the best AD and best support in the world. Graber never would have:

• Held players and coaches accountable like Schiano does
• Recruited Florida like Schiano does
• Implemented a thorough recruiting process like Schiano has. Every recruit has been thoroughly vetted, which takes lots of man hours, to ensure they are self motivated
• Sent as many kids to the NFL from Rutgers as Schiano has
• Had ties to area coaches like Schiano has
• Toted the snake oil like Schiano does
• Had players that academically achieved like Schiano’s players have
• Worked as hard as Schiano does

The first point is most important.
the biggest reason why Schiano has succeeded at Rutgers is because kids and coaches know if they’re not doing the right thing, his foot is going to be up their you know where, so fast. Unlike Graber, He holds people to account.

That’s why this year, we are going into the season with the strongest, most prepared Rutgers Football Team ever assembled. I don’t have to worry about whether our players:

• Spent enough time in the film room
• Spent enough time in the weight room
• Spent enough time in the classroom
• Spent enough time on homework

I have the luxury of taking these things for granted, thanks to Greg Schiano. Didn’t feel the same way under Doug Graber.

Even the Penn State Fans who were with me were impressed with the size of our players, as they made their way to the Beaver Stadium Field. One thing our team does not lack for is work ethic. Now it’s a matter of continuing to build the talent base.

Sure thing.👍

I’m sure Frank Burns, Dick Anderson and Doug Graber would have loved to have an AD who listened and acted on what they wanted and needed.

It’s the real version of going shopping with a list, checkbook and coupons compared to one with a WIC card.

Do you really think Greg Schiano gets what he needs with Fred Gruninger as his boss? There was no there there…money, leadership, mission, etc.

Here is a bullet point for you…

• He had basically the same deal as those guys did when he was at Tampa Bay. Similar results too. 🤷‍♂️

 

[DJ Spanky]

I’m sure Frank Burns, Dick Anderson and Doug Graber would have loved to have an AD who listened and acted on what they wanted and needed.

I did not realize that Burns and Anderson also slept with al's girl.

 

[rutgersal]

Sure thing.👍

I’m sure Frank Burns, Dick Anderson and Doug Graber would have loved to have an AD who listened and acted on what they wanted and needed.

It’s the real version of going shopping with a list, checkbook and coupons compared to one with a WIC card.

Do you really think Greg Schiano gets what he needs with Fred Gruninger as his boss? There was no there there…money, leadership, mission, etc.

Here is a bullet point for you…

• He had basically the same deal as those guys did when he was at Tampa Bay. Similar results too. 🤷‍♂️

Schiano doesn’t take the job with Gruninger as AD. But that doesn’t mean others would have succeeded with Mulcahy as AD. I’m sure Burns would have succeeded, but don’t think others had the right skillset or strategy.

Not sure what your Tampa Bay bullet point means, but the problem there was he didn’t get enough time to turn things around. And he mistakenly thought the team was more ready to win than it was, which is why ownership spent millions on free agents, the best of which came down with an infection. Being initially saddled with Josh Freeman as QB was also problematic. Had he been able to turn over the roster, he would have succeeded.

 

[rurichdog]

Yes. My point though was how unusual for a program like Rutgers to have 3 NFL camp-worthy QBs on the roster.

I misunderstood.

 

[e5fdny]

Schiano doesn’t take the job with Gruninger as AD. But that doesn’t mean others would have succeeded with Mulcahy as AD. I’m sure Burns would have succeeded, but don’t think others had the right skillset or strategy.

Not sure what your Tampa Bay bullet point means, but the problem there was he didn’t get enough time to turn things around. And he mistakenly thought the team was more ready to win than it was, which is why ownership spent millions on free agents, the best of which came down with an infection. Being initially saddled with Josh Freeman as QB was also problematic. Had he been able to turn over the roster, he would have succeeded.

And there it is.

That’s the point of the whole discussion.

Without the support, probably nobody succeeds.

But again, no one before him had it.

 

[rutgersal]

And there it is.

That’s the point of the whole discussion.

Without the support, probably nobody succeeds.

But again, no one before him had it.

What you and others aren’t getting is that without a plan, the additional support would not have made a material difference in the outcome for the other coaches. The additional support is complementary to the efforts of the head coach. It doesn’t replace them. If it isn’t important to the head coach that the players attend class, than the additional support would have been wasted.

But the change really started with a commitment from the head coach. Schiano took fewer academic risks in recruiting and allowed no wiggle room in the classroom, even if that meant losses on the field.

“The key in making this happen,” Mulcahy said, “is that the coach needs to enforce the mandate.”

As Willis pointed out, the additional support was negotiated and fought for. It wasn’t freely given.

Schiano made the business case and got the support.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Willis and Al are right here. That doesn't make others wrong. Schiano demanded it and built it the right way both times.

Graber was a really good coach too and maybe if he came later on he too would have demands and gotten more support.

The topic of the thread has gone sideways. We were so close the Graber years and that's when I really started being diehard instead of just a fan .

 

[RUBOB72]

Graber was exposed to the NFL. Any NFL team is greater exposure than 99% of major college football. His lack of success spoke more about the ma-and-pop leadership in the athletic department and school president. You had an AD who fought you at every step of the way and a school president who was aloof. If Graber didn't go above Freddy G's head, Rutgers might still be playing in that old stadium or all of its games at the Meadowlands. Even Dick Anderson, who was at Penn State, knew what it took to build a program and got little to no support.

Doug Graber tried to convince Freddy G and company to spend money to keep most of the team on campus during the summer for workouts and summer school. He was denied, and that was part of the problem with several players having issues staying eligible. Any given summer, you might have had 20 players on campus for anything. Until a change in the AD, Rutgers was stuck in minor league sports. It wasn't as if the previous coaches before Schiano didn't try, they just didn't have support in critical positions. Mulcahy made it much easier for Schiano to fulfill his demands to build a successful program.

Thanks Doug for your direct knowledge on Rutgers, Coach Graber and Fred G. Somebody who actually was a Scarlet Knight FB player.

 

[RUBOB72]

If you go towards the beginning of the thread, you’ll see that I said it first. 😉

Lots of revisionist history in this thread. I don’t care if Graber had the best AD and best support in the world. Graber never would have:

• Held players and coaches accountable like Schiano does
• Recruited Florida like Schiano does
• Implemented a thorough recruiting process like Schiano has. Every recruit has been thoroughly vetted, which takes lots of man hours, to ensure they are self motivated
• Sent as many kids to the NFL from Rutgers as Schiano has
• Had ties to area coaches like Schiano has
• Toted the snake oil like Schiano does
• Had players that academically achieved like Schiano’s players have
• Worked as hard as Schiano does

The first point is most important.
the biggest reason why Schiano has succeeded at Rutgers is because kids and coaches know if they’re not doing the right thing, his foot is going to be up their you know where, so fast. Unlike Graber, He holds people to account.

That’s why this year, we are going into the season with the strongest, most prepared Rutgers Football Team ever assembled. I don’t have to worry about whether our players:

• Spent enough time in the film room
• Spent enough time in the weight room
• Spent enough time in the classroom
• Spent enough time on homework

I have the luxury of taking these things for granted, thanks to Greg Schiano. Didn’t feel the same way under Doug Graber.

Even the Penn State Fans who were with me were impressed with the size of our players, as they made their way to the Beaver Stadium Field. One thing our team does not lack for is work ethic. Now it’s a matter of continuing to build the talent base.

Yes rutgersal Graber had the flaw of not being a disciplinarian . Had he done so we probably would have had nobody suiting up on game day. The failure was the Rutgers admin which had only a limited support staff. And as pointed out DG was a NFL guy. Believed players could be trusted to do the right thing. That proved wrong.

 

[e5fdny]

What you and others aren’t getting is that without a plan, the additional support would not have made a material difference in the outcome for the other coaches. The additional support is complementary to the efforts of the head coach. It doesn’t replace them. If it isn’t important to the head coach that the players attend class, than the additional support would have been wasted.

But the change really started with a commitment from the head coach. Schiano took fewer academic risks in recruiting and allowed no wiggle room in the classroom, even if that meant losses on the field.

“The key in making this happen,” Mulcahy said, “is that the coach needs to enforce the mandate.”

As Willis pointed out, the additional support was negotiated and fought for. It wasn’t freely given.

Schiano made the business case and got the support.

Oh we get it.

You answered the question already. It’s that simple.

Thanks.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Thanks Doug for your direct knowledge on Rutgers, Coach Graber and Fred G. Somebody who actually was a Scarlet Knight FB player.

Eh, Doug doesn't know anything about football, I don't know why you just don't believe al!