Definitely nothing. However, BYU isn’t mainstream University of Utah. From a social life perspective it’s undoubtedly a lifestyle change to attend college where 98% of the student body follows the strict rules of the Mormon faith (no alcohol, coffee, etc.). Not everyone would make this choice, regardless of NIL considerations.
Mag to BYU
- Thread starter Zak57
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Definitely nothing. However, BYU isn’t mainstream University of Utah. From a social life perspective it’s undoubtedly a lifestyle change to attend college where 98% of the student body follows the strict rules of the Mormon faith (no alcohol, coffee, etc.). Not everyone would make this choice, regardless of NIL considerations.
My point was, the poster was clearly condescending and critical of Mag’s destination. Mag’s transfer preferences and values are his own business and not for others to judge, and certainly not disparage.
Even more tone def is being oblivious to the fact that program-wise BYU, and Utah too for that matter, are historically more successful programs.
Even more tone def is being oblivious to the fact that program-wise BYU, and Utah too for that matter, are historically more successful programs.
I didn’t take it that way. The poster wasn’t being condescending to the basketball program. And I don’t think it was intended as derogatory towards “Utah” either. Look - maybe Mag is Mormon and we don’t know it, but he probably would’ve taken a year off at some point for a mission if so, right? From my limited knowledge of that faith I believe that would’ve happened already. 9 players on BYU’s team last year had completed year long missions. 98% of the school is Mormon. As said - it’s a bit of an odd choice for someone not part of the faith. I believe that was all that was intended by the post. Living a Momon lifestyle is definitely a commitment.
Wrong. RU BB historical record is .507 so about half of all teams would be worse, correct?
I shouldn’t speak for whoever posted that. As I said, I took “out in Utah” to mean “Mormon community” which is a reasonable observation to have since 98% of the school is Mormon and most (though not all) of BYU’s athletes observe. In the world of NIL, playing ball is now a job, so perhaps the college campus experience is no longer as big a factor, but it’s not an unreasonable observation to make. Upper class undergraduates are finally of legal drinking age - not everyone would chose to attend school in a place where there is limited to no bar scene because 98% of the student body doesn’t drink.
regarding last point below, based on this past season there will be ZERO ISSUES with Mag on Sunday game days avoiding working
- Tithing: Mormons are expected to donate 10% of their annual interest to the church.
- Health: Mormons follow a strict healthy lifestyle that includes fasting, avoiding alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea, and eating seasonally.
- Clothing: Mormons wear special undergarments with religious significance.
- Family: Mormons value family life and may share conversion stories, or how they were inspired to choose their spouse, during meetings.
- Service: Mormons participate in lay leadership, minister to other members, and do missionary work.
- Sabbath: Mormons try to avoid working on Sundays.
A stretch. He never mentions or insinuates religion, and again, his values don’t matter to Mag’s life. It was clear disparagement of Utah/BYU and Mag’s basketball endeavors.
Yes - and because of the large population there, many folks think of Utah as the Mormon state and BYU a Mormon school (again it’s 98% of the student body).
I didn’t see a reference to basketball in that post at all. See my post above. Utah is known for being a Mormon state and BYU is a Mormon school. Toby highlighted some of the attributes of Mormon lifestyle that set it apart. It’s not meant at all to be derogatory. Look - I’m sure many of us would feel a lot healthier if we made those choices. It’s a big commitment though, and not everyone is willing to do it. “Out in Utah” can and likely was intended in the context of that. Which isn’t derogatory at all.
Not Toby. I’ve been referring to the post by RutgersClassof2004. Did you see his quote I cited?
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BYU Honor Code:
- Maintain an Ecclesiastical Endorsement, including striving to deepen faith and maintain gospel standards
- Be honest
- Live a chaste and virtuous life, including abstaining from sexual relations outside marriage between a man and a woman. Living a chaste and virtuous life also includes abstaining from same-sex romantic behavior.
- Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, vaping, marijuana, and other substance abuse
- Participate regularly in Church services
- Respect others, including the avoidance of profane and vulgar language
I thought so. I just went back and looked at it and the reference to Utah actually seems even more neutral than I originally thought.
The guy said he called Mag a quitter and called someone’s bluff who predicted Mag would be an integral part of the 2024-25 season for us. The poster then says - see I’m right, not only is he not going to be a big part of our team - he’s playing all the way out in Utah (meaning - very far away from NJ). Seems like he’s just saying “my prediction was right” no? I.e. that Mag not only wont play a big role for us, but he’s playing on the other side of the country. There’s nothing in there about our program being superior to BYU’s.
Kinda funny article. Mag didn’t know what BYU stood for or what a Mormon was or that the school had special rules. Then the article basically says he ended up there because of NIL. Haha. Oh, Mag also thinks he’s a 3 and he wants to improve on his 38% from the field shooting percentage.
No excuse to never even hear of Mormons living in the US as long as he has
Its a shame we don't have a non conference home game vs BYU so we could welcome him back. Might make Rosario's return look tame
All I know is I couldn't sit out a game if I could play. I would have HAD to play. I remember as a little kid getting a typhoid vaccine (we were moving over seas) and it made me so incredibly sick the next day. I've never felt worse than I did after that shot. But I had a t-ball game that night and I insisted on playing. Freaking T-Ball. I can't imagine sitting out a D-1 Big Ten game if there was any way I could play. Money isn't everything- or even close. And he was practicing between every game already anyway. And a Rutgers grad can make really good money without ever playing a sport but Mag is gonna play professionally overseas regardless. He's got no shot at the NBA so really he sat out games in an attempt to maximize his 1 year - and probably didn't benefit much financially vs. just playing and sticking with RU. Richie said he didn't get anything near what he thought he was worth - which is no surprise given he was "too hurt" to play last year.
Just a strange, misguided and shortsighted decision. I just will never understand this generation of "me first" guys.
Wasn't it Ted Williams who refused to sit out the last game of the season which would ensure his batting avg stayed above .400 and insisted on playing - and got 3 hits to boost his avg higher? That's the epitome of a team first guy.
Just a strange, misguided and shortsighted decision. I just will never understand this generation of "me first" guys.
Wasn't it Ted Williams who refused to sit out the last game of the season which would ensure his batting avg stayed above .400 and insisted on playing - and got 3 hits to boost his avg higher? That's the epitome of a team first guy.
Be prepared for a ton of things like this in college basketball in the future.
I want to feel bad for the kid but - good riddance
He played it so wrong.
Sitting out (abandoning his teammates), thinking he was worth so much more - then settles for some NIL scraps at a college/ culture he knew nothing about.
A cautionary tale that the “me first” tactic doesn’t always work out in your favor
Taking this off topic a tad - but why the heck not, since 3 of the 4 longest recent threads are about EX-RU players.
Your tale on Ted Williams is MOSTLY true. He was at .3995 BA on the last day of the season - rounded up THAT WAS .400 ... . The day BEFORE the last day he had gone just 1-4, taking his BA from .401 to .3995. Boston had a doubleheader that last day, so 2 games. Williams played in both games: Went 4-5 in game 1 to take his BA to .404, and 2-3 in game 2, for the final .406 BA.
That said, though in TODAYS world he would have won the MVP, in the world of 1941 the Red Sox, his team, was a decent 84-70, but 17 games behind the Yankees, and Joe Dimaggio had a fine season, so Joe Dimaggio won the MVP - best player on the best team (Dom Dimaggio was on the Red Sox, if you care). Williams led the league in everything except RBI (Dimaggio led Williams by 5 RBI): WAR, BA, HR, Runs, Walks, OBA (a ridiculous .553), SA, OPS. Dimaggio was 2nd in every category except HR - he was 3rd - and RBI (he led).
The other thing I would argue you got a little wrong about Ted Williams was that his motivation to play those last 2 games was "team first." It was not that Ted Williams did not try for his team, exactly. But Ted Williams, rightly or wrongly, was thought to be singularly focused on just ONE THING: His hitting. I could argue Williams was the single best pure hitter of all time. But he so focused on hitting, and so ignored most other aspects of his game, that he was at best an average fielder and baserunner. So he paled in his overall game to the players I see as the best players ever: Willie Mays and Barry Bonds (steroids and all, don't care - but that is another discussion, surely) ... and Babe Ruth (who was so dominant versus the entire set of his peers, plus was an above average pitcher for several years).
My point is, I don't think Williams played those last 2 games for his TEAM. He did so for himself. Partly as a compliment to his attitude that he was paid the PLAY, not sit. But also for sure partly to make sure there was no doubt about him hitting .400: He might have gotten credit for the rounding up, but many, maybe even himself, would have discounted that achievement if it had remained at .3995. Just saying.
I would say that moving on from something is one thing; quitting is by far another. You can work hard until the end of the season, the of a project, or the end of a contract, but you don’t quit on the current people around you.
I’m sadly waiting for the moment when a star player (s) or even a full team threatens not to play in a NCAA Tourney game unless they get more NIL $ etc.
Maybe I’m getting extreme - but just think of the amount of $ generated - and how much the players will want funneled to them.
Same in NCAA FB Playoffs.
No doubt. Already started evolving in that direction with kids sitting out Bowl games. Not saying not a good reason given potential professional careers, but it is a start of a slippery slope of "gonna sit out so as not to lose NIL money if I get cut." Who knows, but this is still evolving.
Ted Williams was an AMerican Hero.
Flew with John Glenn in Korea
I would proudly wear his Jersey (If i liked Red SOx.....lol)
Flew with John Glenn in Korea
I would proudly wear his Jersey (If i liked Red SOx.....lol)
It's good Mag left. There is no room on this team for him anymore. Good move for both parties.
The fact he was cleared to play and chose to sit reinforces that. At the end of the day, another me guy. Good luck to him but his future wasn't at Rutgers.
The fact he was cleared to play and chose to sit reinforces that. At the end of the day, another me guy. Good luck to him but his future wasn't at Rutgers.
do players have contracts? doesn't a player have the most value during the season?
I apologize if it seemed like I was denigrating Williams as either a player or a person. Not my intent. Just saying him playing those last 2 games of 1941 was not about him being a "team" player.
FYI: He should have won the MVP in 1941, in my opinion. I think several BOSTON sportswriters left him off their MVP ballots ENTIRELY ... or at least 1 did ... crazy, if you think about it. Williams was clearly the best player in the majors that year ... and many other years. For what it is worth, no one nowadays ever places Dimaggio ahead of Williams in career evaluations ... Williams is always ranked ahead of Dimaggio, .and is usually in the top 5-6 all time ... as he rightly deserves. And if he had not served in the military for BOTH WW II, and then AGAIN in the Korean War, he would without any question be considered ONLY behind Ruth, Bonds and Mays all time ... and many, including me, have him there anyway ... though I am not sure how to evaluate Honus Wagner and Cobb versus Williams - very tough, not apples to apples.
Honus Wagner - played in a very different era (1897-2017): But led the league in WAR (now calculated) 11 times (8 in a row - 5 consecutive 9.0 or better, 2X 10 or better), 8X OPS leader, 7X Slugging average leader, 8X BA leader, 4X OBA leader ... all without ever hitting more than 10 HR in a season, and only hitting 10 HR 2X. Just a totally different era, but he was dominant. FYI, though by today's standards he probably was not a great fielder, in that era, with such poor gloves, etc., he had a DEFENSIVE WAR of 21 in his career, 6X at 2.0 or better ... that is pretty darned good (for comparison, Ozzie Smith, also a SS, had a defensive WAR career of 44, with 11X WAR of 2.0 or better - 8 in a row - and 5X defensive WAR of 3.0 or better).
Ty Cobb - also in a different era, though overlapped with the end of the dead ball era (1905-1928): Led the league in WAR 5X - all pre Babe Ruth's stardom - negative defensive WAR in almost every year, 10X OPS leader - including ONCE while Ruth was starring (in 1925), 8X Slugging average leader, 12X BA leader (all in a span of 13 years) - even in the dead ball era, though no BA titles, still averaged .360 in those 8 years with an OPS+ of 144, 7X OBA leader.
Ted Williams - "modern era" player, basically (1939-1960): Led the league in WAR 6X (fewer than Wagner, 1 more than Cobb FYI) - negative defensive WAR (though not as bad as Cobb) including only 1 season of positive defensive WAR (1955), 10X OPS leader, 9X Slugging average leader, 6X BA leader, 12X OBA leader ... and the 3 years he missed in WWII were truly in the middle of his best years, so it would seem likely he might have led the league in WAR, OPS, BA, SA and BA all or at least 2 of those 3 years ... and maybe also in the missed Korean War 2 seasons. For that reason I am comfortable rating him ahead of Wagner ... and probably regardless, ahead of Cobb. 2 MVPs - 7 other times top 5 MVP.
For comps:
Willie Mays - modern ball era, 10 years overlap with Williams, but in a different era, a bit - a true PITCHERS era (Williams' era was a HITTERS era) ... and Williams played in a band box, while Mays played his entire career in home stadiums that were literally the worst hitting stadiums in the majors, especially sapping of power stats (just saying) - and Mays missed 2 of his prime years for the Korean War: 10X WAR leader (6X 10.0 WAR or more - which is ridiculous, 9X 9.0 WAR or more) - 18.0 defensive WAR - sky high for an OF - Wagner was a SS, remember - Mays even led the league, all fielders, in Defensive WAR one year, as an OF (!!), 5X OPS leader, 5X Slugging leader, 2X OBA leader, 1X BA leader ... 12X Gold Glove winner, and in an era on the 1950's when NO ONE stole bases, ed the league in SB 4 straight seasons. And 2 MVPS, 7 other times in top 5 and 2 other times #6.
Barry Bonds - okay, yeah, steroids ... as a Giants and Bonds fan, I don't care, and ... by many accounts as many as HALF the players in that era (from 1998-2004, let's say) used steroids, including many pitchers, so I don't care ... besides he was great before he used steroids (his start was supposedly the year he got hurt, in 1999), a likely hall of famer even before: 11X WAR leader - positive defensive WAR (not as good as Mays, though) with 3X defensive WAR over 2.0 - very good for an OF, 9X OPS leader (including 5X before he supposedly took steroids - 16 consecutive seasons of 1.000+ OPS, including 8X before steroids, 7X slugging average leader (3 times pre-steroids), 10X OBA leader (4 X pre-steroids), 2X BA leader, 8X Gold Glove winner, 7X MVP (3X MVP pre-steroids in a span of 4 years - that 4th year he finished 2nd to Pendleton, when he should have won easily - lost by 15 points) - 7 other times in the top 5 in MVP voting.
My opinion of all time greats:
Top tier: Ruth, Mays and Barry Bonds, take your pick, depending what you value
Next Tier: Williams, Wagner, Cobb - Williams at the top of that tier
For reference, all time WAR leaders, career, have Williams only at 121 ish, #14 ... but you HAVE to assume the 5 years he missed he would have had at least 8.0 per year, or 40 additional WAR ... That would put him 3rd amongst hitters, just ahead of Mays and behind Ruth and Bonds. No offense, but I still put Mays ahead, sorry. The next hitters after Mays: Cobb, Aaron, Tris Speaker and Honus Wagner ... then followed by Musial (Ted Williams-lite), Hornsby and Eddie Collins (Wagner-lite).
Defensive WAR is a flawed stat, I know. Still, its a tool of evaluation. The 6 of the top 7 in career Defensive WAR, using baseball-reference's WAR, are all middle infielders, with Brooks Robinson at #3. Of the top 21, all are middle infielders other than Brooks Robinson (3B), Pudge (C), Yadier Molina (C), Beltre (3B), Gary Carter (C), Bob Boone (C), and Jim Sundberg (C). Andruw Jones has the most defensive WAR as an OF ... Paul Blair is the #2 career defensive WAR OF and Mays is #3 ... but no one actually thinks Blair was the better defender than Mays ... some do make a case Jones was better - and I would agree that was close, though I still give Mays the edge, having watched both of them.
Are you making the assumption that someone in their early 20's and who will have a college degree (potentially multiple degrees) with their entire life ahead and might potentially even have overseas opportunities to play etc. only has a 4 year window to make probably less than the $100k they got from NIL funding?
1) who gives 2 shis about Mag? After what he did to RU? Between him and GW the extended threads are comical
2) I pretty Wagner didn't play from 1897 to 2017 @lion1983 lol (had to throw that out there....)
2) I pretty Wagner didn't play from 1897 to 2017 @lion1983 lol (had to throw that out there....)
I used a stray comment about Ted Williams demonstrating being a "team" player by playing the last 2 games of a useless season to purposely hijack it to make the point AreYouNuts made a couple of posts above: I find it more interesting to talk about baseball on this Board than ex-RU players who made a choice to LEAVE and ABANDON Rutgers (like Griffiths and Mag, and peripherally Spencer, and others).
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