He just put up 5 straight double digit point games, was he hurt in those games?!?!?!?! ONCE AGAIN, NO ONE WANTS TO KILL MAG, just pointing out he was one of the big issues today with his 2 points and 2 rebounds. We can’t call him the straw that stirs the drink, the engine that makes the car run when he plays well and then revert to “he’s hurt” when he has a bad game. Bad games happen, he had one today, not the end of the world. It’s not sacrilegious to point out a no show Mag game when he has one. The reason his stands out today because he is so reliable and they have little chance of winning against anyone if he’s off, that’s why it stood out. I assume he’ll bounce back with one of his normal games against Purdue.
Mag
- Thread starter RAC93
- Start date
How long will it be before you’ll have to apologize for this post based on a subsequent game by Fernandes?
Nice try but JMike has had 4-12 shooting games too. He’s had his fair share of chucking up shots. Sorry your narrative doesn’t fit. I get he is friends with Ace but Ace will only be here a year.
Simpson had done far more and is still only a sophomore. I like his raw speed.
Can’t go more than two halves in two games and have no assists and claim that’s fine.
News flash Fernandes and yes Simpson playing with same players and getting assists in less minutes. Can’t keep sticking head in sand because he’s friends with Ace.
Despite his great body Simpson also gets rebounds, more assists, more steals and more points. Opposing teams don’t worry about JMike. Ask Nebraska, PSU and Indiana 2x about Simpson. Ask Stonehill too. Ohio State? Ignoring last year.
Only a sophomore. SMH
This narrative is ridiculous.
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The point is creating an entire thread to call out Mag for a bad game when he's been probably our most consistent player is uncalled for
No one is pretending he had a good game but it's a comment for the game thread or the recap threads. Doesn't need to be in the spotlight
If he has a string of bad games, then sure. Thread worthy
If we make a thread for a player every time they have a bad game, we are going to have to start 10 different player threads every game
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Simpson has 2 games all season that he has shot over 40% from the field. ALL SEASON. We have played 18 games and a bunch against cupcakes That is mind blowing level bad efficiency.
Simpson is shooting 5% worse overall and 10% worse from 2 this season... and last season was bad. This should be concerning to anyone
The guard play overall is baddddd. Trying to pretend Simpson has played well this season is just devoid of reality. He has struggled in the vast majority of games. One or two good games doesn't negate the rest.
Are you related to Simpson?
FWIW in the last 4 games Derek has gone 3-10, 3-13, 2-6 and 2-13. I mean come on. He’s volume shooting and missing a lot. 24%
Fair enough, 10 player threads is an indication of where this team is at. Cliff and Noah were good today, at least on offense, Noah was not great defensely but who was when you give up 86 points. Point is that RU literally can’t have a bad Mag game, this team has no margins for error.
Caleb last year was a much much more efficient shooter than Simpson...
Some people wanted to bench Caleb bc he was too bad offensively
He looked different and played bad because he is hurt. Did you see the wrap around his thigh? He wasn't wearing that last game. He wasn't moving well at all. Looked like he was limping.
I get it - they look at the roster and want to will Simpson into being a star. But when you get 40+ games into a guy’s career you have to accept what that player is until they prove otherwise.
Mag hurt his leg again during our last home game. He's didn't leave the game, but we called a timeout. He favored it during the timeout and was leaning on his other leg and bouncing on it.
This game he comes out with his leg wrapped up and struggled.
Not a hard leap to make that his performance was impacted by that. I'm just hoping it's unrelated to his rebuilt knee.
Exactly it. I was a big Simpson fan when we recruited him. I like his speed and burst and willingness to attack. My phone background is a pic of Simpson!
The development just hasn't been there. He hasn't added enough muscle. His poor shooting freshman season somehow turned into a worse shooting sophomore campaign. His ability to create open mid range jumpers hasn't turned into him knocking them down. He hasn't figured out how to finish at the rim
His FT shooting is good which leaves a glimmer of hope. His 3 point shooting improved which is nice to see... but it's still bad
He is a ball dominate, score first, high volume low efficiency player until he proves otherwise at this point. There is a lot of season left and he needs to turn it around if he wants Pike to look at him as a potential starter
Good news is that Jacob Young was the same.... until it clicked for him. Hoping it clicks for Simpson soon.
So is Cliff, except when they have good games. Funny how injuries come and go game to game.
Is JMike better?
No!
Are you related to JMike or just intellectually dishonest?
Simpson has been better than JMike. I don’t care that he is friends with Ace.
Two games, 21 minutes and 26 minutes. No assists by some one who aspires to be a point guard?
He’s shooting 40% from line.
Are you related to JMike?
I’m not gonna write a guy off - but Simpson was the guy who had to make a leap for us to have a solid season - especially with Cams departure. He just hasn’t and our season reflects that.
Yep. Illinois just has better players than we do. And better than just about every team in the conference too
Take a lap buddy
And making a guy who has gone two solid halves in two games without an assist into a future star who deserves more PT is even nuttier.
Oh by the way, guy you’re “not writing off” almost had a triple double in our last game. SMH.
I've said over and over they both aren't playing well enough. BOTH. I'm not telling everyone how amazing J Mike has played despite his stats. That's what you're obsessively doing with Simpson.
You latch on to a couple things Simpson did well and latch on to a few points that J Mike didn't do well and repeat the same thing over and over and over. It's getting old
Exactly. Every player - even mega stars - have a bad game. Mag’s body of work this season, especially coming off an ACL injury, is probably the best on this team. He is a legit quality Big 10 starter and a high-energy guy essential to Pike’s defensive system. Calling him out for one bad game in the last 6 is dopey.
This is as inept of a thread because you have fans locked into stats and efficiency and it's as if no one watches the games....I mean, it's clear we are all watching the games, but no one understands perspectives of how stats get created.
Mag is a complimentary 6th man on a NCAA roster, who is still developing and doesn't create his own offense, cannot create his own shot and until very recently, is not a threat to shoot from anywhere outside of 10 feet.
The Simpson stuff on shooting percentages are 100% impacted based on who is surrounding him. We have a very inconsistent big who is not going to be confused with Zach Edey at Purdue......does anyone actually think Simpson would not have better looks and more open shots if he played in a Purdue system, anchored by Edey drawing double and triple teams??? Of course, he would shoot a higher percentage from 3 AND would have significantly more assists.
Mix that with his ability to generate transition baskets and he's pretty good folks, he's just not surrounded by players who are better than him, so he blends into a complimentary role.
On the other hand, Mag has never been asked to be more than a 3rd/4th option, until this season and has always been the 5th option on offense or game planning....he gets putbacks and offensive rebounds and is a clear defensive player....but your stats always are going to be "more efficient", when you are not the focal point of any scouting report (Cliff, then Hyatt, then Simpson are, in that order.....then maybe Mag).
If you are the 4th option, I'd like to think, your efficiency and stats benefit from opponents focus in the other 3 options.....
I can count maybe 2 shots a game, where Simpson attacks too deep, gets his shot blocked, or tries a very difficult driving layup. I don't see anyone else that commands the ball (Mag) to attempt to score vs his defender, so he doesn't have to be asked to do that.
If we fed the ball to Mag as a primary option, all of his efficiency and stats and shooting percentages would drop significantly. I don't know how RU fans can't grasp the concepts of who you play with and their talent, skill levels, matters.....and Simpson is going to benefit by being more experienced and learning how to take pressurized shots now, so that it's not left to a bunch of freshman or new parts to do it next year......Same thing for JMike Davis as well.
It's like the same concepts in football in recent years....Pacheco can't play, we need to replace him......LMAO......maybe it's the coaching, maybe it's the lack of offensive line coaching......that was clear in 1 season changing to Flaherty as OLine coach that the line wasn't solely the issue.
All I heard was how terrible the OLine was and suddenly, they're bulldozing Miami all over Yankee Stadium....and now Monangai is the leading rusher in the B1G.....similar player, more experienced, better coaching around him, better players around him, suddenly he's 1st team all B1G entering 2024.
Can we keep perspective about Mag and Simpson?? They play completely different positions....I hold Simpson to a much higher standard, because he's a guard and he has tools to work with and is being asked to do more......more is given, more is expected......
On the other hand, we're not asking OR should be asking Mag to be a go to player. That's not who he is.....he's not Cliff, Hyatt or Simpson offensively.....He's very good defensively, but we keep elevating complimentary players that are 4th and 5th options, on the backs of players, who are actually focused on by opponents, when they have to play RU.
Mag is benefitting or should continue to thrive, as Cliff appears to get on track and as long as Hyatt continues to score 11 to 13PPG and takes his 5 to 6 3 pointers per game. Then it's Simpson, then Mag.....
Then Mag steps in and provides a difference behind the other 3 options, not the other way around. Let's keep perspective on who shoots the ball, and are those shot attempts, up against the end of a shot clock (when there aren't any other true options to go to) OR does Simpson have 3 to 4 other players who can create their own shot or demand the ball and the focus of defense??
It's like groundhog day from last year to this year.....only difference is, we are getting shots up this year and then fans cry about efficiency or shooting percentages, as if that actually wins games.....I guess that's better than a shot clock violation last year, with no shot taken or getting smothered in half court........gotta keep those shot or efficiency stats elevated, I guess.....
Mag is a complimentary 6th man on a NCAA roster, who is still developing and doesn't create his own offense, cannot create his own shot and until very recently, is not a threat to shoot from anywhere outside of 10 feet.
The Simpson stuff on shooting percentages are 100% impacted based on who is surrounding him. We have a very inconsistent big who is not going to be confused with Zach Edey at Purdue......does anyone actually think Simpson would not have better looks and more open shots if he played in a Purdue system, anchored by Edey drawing double and triple teams??? Of course, he would shoot a higher percentage from 3 AND would have significantly more assists.
Mix that with his ability to generate transition baskets and he's pretty good folks, he's just not surrounded by players who are better than him, so he blends into a complimentary role.
On the other hand, Mag has never been asked to be more than a 3rd/4th option, until this season and has always been the 5th option on offense or game planning....he gets putbacks and offensive rebounds and is a clear defensive player....but your stats always are going to be "more efficient", when you are not the focal point of any scouting report (Cliff, then Hyatt, then Simpson are, in that order.....then maybe Mag).
If you are the 4th option, I'd like to think, your efficiency and stats benefit from opponents focus in the other 3 options.....
I can count maybe 2 shots a game, where Simpson attacks too deep, gets his shot blocked, or tries a very difficult driving layup. I don't see anyone else that commands the ball (Mag) to attempt to score vs his defender, so he doesn't have to be asked to do that.
If we fed the ball to Mag as a primary option, all of his efficiency and stats and shooting percentages would drop significantly. I don't know how RU fans can't grasp the concepts of who you play with and their talent, skill levels, matters.....and Simpson is going to benefit by being more experienced and learning how to take pressurized shots now, so that it's not left to a bunch of freshman or new parts to do it next year......Same thing for JMike Davis as well.
It's like the same concepts in football in recent years....Pacheco can't play, we need to replace him......LMAO......maybe it's the coaching, maybe it's the lack of offensive line coaching......that was clear in 1 season changing to Flaherty as OLine coach that the line wasn't solely the issue.
All I heard was how terrible the OLine was and suddenly, they're bulldozing Miami all over Yankee Stadium....and now Monangai is the leading rusher in the B1G.....similar player, more experienced, better coaching around him, better players around him, suddenly he's 1st team all B1G entering 2024.
Can we keep perspective about Mag and Simpson?? They play completely different positions....I hold Simpson to a much higher standard, because he's a guard and he has tools to work with and is being asked to do more......more is given, more is expected......
On the other hand, we're not asking OR should be asking Mag to be a go to player. That's not who he is.....he's not Cliff, Hyatt or Simpson offensively.....He's very good defensively, but we keep elevating complimentary players that are 4th and 5th options, on the backs of players, who are actually focused on by opponents, when they have to play RU.
Mag is benefitting or should continue to thrive, as Cliff appears to get on track and as long as Hyatt continues to score 11 to 13PPG and takes his 5 to 6 3 pointers per game. Then it's Simpson, then Mag.....
Then Mag steps in and provides a difference behind the other 3 options, not the other way around. Let's keep perspective on who shoots the ball, and are those shot attempts, up against the end of a shot clock (when there aren't any other true options to go to) OR does Simpson have 3 to 4 other players who can create their own shot or demand the ball and the focus of defense??
It's like groundhog day from last year to this year.....only difference is, we are getting shots up this year and then fans cry about efficiency or shooting percentages, as if that actually wins games.....I guess that's better than a shot clock violation last year, with no shot taken or getting smothered in half court........gotta keep those shot or efficiency stats elevated, I guess.....
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The OP originally did not want him back next year. That is killing him as a member of the team.
Mag is a vital cog for next year, no doubt. He is a complimentary player and shouldn’t be expected to lead team in scoring. His experience and rebounding will be crucial next year. We need to see some JWill/Ogbole who could be a big part of next year’s roster. We have outstanding frosh class but we need a blend of youth and experience. Hopefully, we will see Mag and some others return to help build roster.
I'm really hoping Mag returns next year as a starting forward. I don't expect him to be as much of an offensive focus as he has been the last several games, nor should we need him to be. He's a plus defender from 2-4, has good size/length, has four years of experience in Pike's system, and has shown he can contribute on the glass and scoreboard.
There are high expectations for Harper/Bailey/Sommerville for next year, but we don't know what sort of value Dorch/Grant will bring as freshmen.
This is a guess, because it's just about expectations, but I'd bet that, for next year only, Sommerville falls somewhere between the Harper-Baily twosome and the Dorch-Grant twosome.
Efficiency literally wins games. The team that scores more points per possession is undefeated in the history of basketball.
Your point about Simpson's efficiency taking a hit because he's being asked to fill a big role is not wrong, but I think you're missing just how bad Simpson is doing. He's not doing anything to elevate the players around him and I don't need stats to tell me that he constantly makes bad judgments about when and from where on the court to shoot the ball, and he doesn't have the skills or the strength to make plays that he tries to make. The effect of simply upgrading around him is not going to be enough.
It's a reinforcing circle of bad shooting, honestly. The frontcourt is not good enough to draw any extra attention which certainly makes things harder for the guards, but the guards are not good enough to set anyone up. Cliff's numbers are down. Mag's numbers are down. Hyatt's have improved and it's not so shocking that his results are different given how less dependent on guard play he is. The team is bad because there have been failings at every position. It's not only on the guards and certainly not only on Simpson, but they're also not really helping.
I agree. But with Omoruyi (almost certainly) moving on, I'd expect Sommerville to start with Ogbole/Woolf backing him up. Question mark for a freshman center is often body control/fouls, though, and that will govern how many minutes he can stay on the floor.
Omoruyi averaged 7.7 pf/100 possessions as a freshman, and Myles Johnson averaged 8.9. Doorson/Diallo were 8.5 and 10.5 respectively their freshman year. Kadeem Jack was at 11.0, and Biruta was 9.0.
Simpson is missing wide open jumpers all the time. It doesn't matter who else is on the court if you're missing open shots
Hawk literally cannot comprehend the concept so its pointless trying to explain it to him and/or have any real substantive discussion
I'm hopeful Sommerville can be better with the fouling. As the son of a former pro I'm expecting more feel for the game than from Johnson (who missed a high school season with a knee injury) and Omoruyi (who did not start playing basketball until late). The pipe dream is that he's as good right away as the Freeman guy on Iowa, who looks like he's going to be a very good four-year for them. Of course, Sommerville doesn't have the length of Johnson or Cliff (or Cliff's bounce) so we're gonna give up some rim protection, but you don't need an army of seven footers to be a good rebounding team.
It's really interesting how fans choose who they like and/or try to mold arguments to fit their position(s). For example, last year, Simpson played a really good game against Indiana. He scored 14 pts. on 5/13. It is often cited as an example of what Derek has shown he can do. That was game #7. But, the next time Derek scored 10+ pts in a B1G came almost 3 months later in game #25 when he scored 10 at home against Nebraska. The next 2 games he scored 2 and 5 pts respectively, And then, yes, putting aside shooting percentage, he scored the ball in 4 of the last 5 games.
So let's take a look at Gavin. Not a league game, but just as big, he scored 11 pts on the road at SHU on 4/8 shooting. That was game #9, and arguably ballparks Derek's Indiana game. Since then Gavin has pretty much disappeared, which isn't great (of course), but again isn't too different from what Derek gave us last year in the middle of the season.
Do I think that Gavin will mirror Derek the rest of the year? I don' t know. Given the recruiting profile of both should he be better? Yes, but that's a different conversation. But, for all those who swear by Derek and have no issue tying Gavin to the bench, just a reminder that as of now, we are sitting on 18 games and Derek didn't hit double figures again in a B1G until game #25.
My point -- there's plenty of time left for Derek and Gavin to change their narrative(s).
So let's take a look at Gavin. Not a league game, but just as big, he scored 11 pts on the road at SHU on 4/8 shooting. That was game #9, and arguably ballparks Derek's Indiana game. Since then Gavin has pretty much disappeared, which isn't great (of course), but again isn't too different from what Derek gave us last year in the middle of the season.
Do I think that Gavin will mirror Derek the rest of the year? I don' t know. Given the recruiting profile of both should he be better? Yes, but that's a different conversation. But, for all those who swear by Derek and have no issue tying Gavin to the bench, just a reminder that as of now, we are sitting on 18 games and Derek didn't hit double figures again in a B1G until game #25.
My point -- there's plenty of time left for Derek and Gavin to change their narrative(s).
That analysis COMPLETELY ignores the real reason why Gavin is not playing. Defense. If gavin was just below average on defense he'd probably be at 20-25 + MPG, fought through a few offensive slumps, and probably would be our leading the scorer.
Agree with you that there is plenty of time for them, but the issue is the downward trend with Gavin like a stock. He started off more involved, more minutes, made more shots early in the season. The trend as season has progressed is he struggles to make a shot, he’s not involved with the offense, and his minutes continue to be reduced. If he had started out the season quietly with little minutes being played, then started to come on with better play and more minutes here in the mid season I think we would feel fine about Gavin. The issue is he’s like a stock that is tanking at the moment. Hopefully Gavin and Pike figure out how we can get that stock value arrow pointing back up. I guess we have to chalk it up to Freshman struggles, which I guess is to be expected, but it seemed like he might have had the ability to struggle less than most of the typical Freshmen. I understand why his minutes are being reduced due to his defense, but Pike and Gavin need to figure out a way that he can get on the court, be improved enough at defense to get minutes, and gain Big Ten experience and develop this year. It feels like the trend is headed to zero minutes a game with him, that would not be good.
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