ADVERTISEMENT

My quarter-season grades and outlook

kcg88

Heisman Winner
Aug 11, 2017
10,863
17,363
113
Hard to believe but we're roughly 25% of the way through the season. I can't always type out game thoughts like bac2therac and some others, but I wanted to collect my thoughts so far in one place.

Geo Baker
Grade: B+

He's being put in a tough position as the primary ballhandler and scorer on offense as a sophomore, and what's more it's not even his natural role. I expect Baker to really excel next year as a secondary ballhandler, and this experience will benefit him. His three-point shooting has been fantastic, and he's shown some ability to get to the rim. It's the stuff in between and the decision-making that knocks his grade down from an A. Not unexpectedly, he's still getting a feel for how to truly run an offense, especially against the better teams on our schedule. Sometimes he hands the ball off and checks out for an offensive series, and sometimes he forces a bad shot early in the shot clock. These are issues that can be smoothed out. Gets a B+ instead of an A- because he's yet to play a great game against a top-tier opponent, in my eyes.

Eugene Omoruyi
Grade: B+

Obviously the addition of a three-point shot is the story here. It was a big surprise and is huge for his game as it changes the way teams need to defend him. Although: he started 6 for 7 and is just 4 for 16 since. His rebounding numbers have predictably gone up with Freeman's departure and his two-point shooting has remained steady. Two things keeping him from an A: While he's elite at drawing charges, I think he may be relying too much on that as a defender. He was decent at generating blocks and steals a season ago but has hardly done it at all this year. Offensively, the ball gets stuck in his hands too often. After 13 assists and 12 turnovers in the first four games, he's assisted just 4 times and turned it over 15 in the last four. Obviously the step up in competition accounts for some of that... He's not going to be Ethan Happ passing out of the lane, but it's reasonable to want him to do a better job of dishing to teammates.

Shaq Doorson
Grade: B

If I was grading relative to my pre-season expectations, this would be an A++. He's clearly more mobile than he's ever been and done an excellent job of finishing at the rim, which seems like it'd be easy for a 7-footer but hasn't always been. You'd like to see him get some more touches inside. In poker they say if you're never caught bluffing, that means you aren't bluffing enough. Same for shooting: If you're not missing any shots, that means you're not attempting enough of them. He knows his own limitations and I'm not saying he needs to step out and start taking jumpers, but he's shown enough feel inside that more sets should be drawn up to get him the ball. Ward and Happ are very good so them having big games isn't surprising and isn't damning of Shaq's defense, but the B1G is full of quality big guys.

Peter Kiss
Grade: B

I was a little bit skeptical of how his shooting would transfer since he was inefficient at Quinnipiac, but so far so good. Even if he settles in as a 35% three-point shooter, it's something we've missed. While Baker and Omoruyi struggled a bit in the two B1G games, I thought Kiss was fantastic and that matches his reputation as a big-game guy. He brings energy and his defense has already seen big improvement from the first couple of games this year. He's going to be streaky -- he shot just 5-25 in a three-game stretch against SJU, EMU, and BU -- so we'll have to live with that. I'd like to see the defense continue to improve and for him to use his energy to help us break out of scoring droughts, not just to put exclamation points on big runs.

Shaq Carter
Grade: B-

I mean, this is kind of a mystery grade. He played 14 minutes of mostly garbage time, and then suddenly has 18 great minutes against Wisconsin. So I kind of split the difference here. Like Doorson, he knows his own game well and has shown a pretty good feel for the basket when he's close by. He played some good defense and also some bad, which isn't really surprising for a JUCO guy thrown directly into a B1G game. We're talking about a one-game sample so not many conclusions to draw. We'll see how many minutes he gets going forward.

Ron Harper Jr.
Grade: C+

Harper would get an A from me if only he could make shots. 3-22 from three and 3-9 from the line isn't going to cut it. He won the MidKnight Madness 3-point contest so I think it'll come around, but there have been some BAD misses. Other than that, I love his game. He always seems to be in the right place and he's made 17-25 from inside the arc. Like most freshman there are strides to be taken defensively but I'd like to see him get 16-18 minutes a night, because he impacts the game in a positive way when he's on the floor and I think the shots will start to drop.

Issa Thiam
Grade: C+

Essentially the opposite of Harper: Thiam hits three-pointers and plays good defense but otherwise he's invisible. 3-and-D is valuable but he needs to actually be attempting the threes for the formula to work. He's seemingly good for one great drive to the basket a game but never any more, and that's the same complaint I had last season. Part of the issue is that we don't have a natural distributor, but Thiam needs to be more assertive. Not that I'm saying anything that hasn't been said over and over again on this board.

Myles Johnson
Grade: C-

Not entirely sure what to make of Johnson. He looked really solid early on but his minutes have dwindled and his play has fallen off. Shades of Mamadou Doucoure from last season, who looked good in the non-conference and against Minnesota but turned into a nonfactor. Hopefully Johnson can avoid that fate, but the numbers are striking: Doorson is 16-17 and Carter is 7-10, while Johnson is just 9-22 from the floor and I don't recall seeing him take any jumpers so we're talking about shots near the rim that need to be hit at a higher rate. He's been alright defensively and on the glass, but nothing too special. I like his potential but I wouldn't be surprised to see Carter as the first big man off the bench for a while.

Caleb McConnell
Grade: D+

Another sort of mystery grade. He was a very nice surprise these last two games but there's also a reason Pikiell played Geo for 39 minutes against Miami. The shooting is rough (3-14 overall) but he's shown some ability to drive, can competently dribble, and isn't a zero defensively, which marks an upgrade over last year's backup PG situation.

Montez Mathis
Grade: D

There are some things Mathis does well: He can be a complete pest defensively, and he attacks the rim and draws fouls. Those are both important things that can be built on. However, he's been a total liability offensively. This isn't impugning his future potential or writing him off, it's just an evaluation of his play so far. 8-31 on two-pointers is brutal, and 3-14 from three isn't much better. He needs to improve at finishing at the rim and he needs to see when it's not there and back it out rather than force it up.

Mamdou Doucoure
Grade: D-

To whatever extent I expected a sophomore leap, it hasn't happened. How he went from 13 and 9 against Reggie Lynch, Jordan Murphy, and Minnesota early in last year's schedule to what he is now might forever be a mystery. He grabbed 6 boards in 10 minutes against EMU, a glimmer of hope, but has just 2 in 9 minutes since. His only made field goal was an ugly banked-in jumper against Fairleigh Dickinson. I have nothing else to say here.


Overall Grade: B
Why is this grade a B when so many players graded out lower? Simple: The coaching staff does a good job and this team plays hard. They're more as a team than the sum of the individual parts.

Outlook
I'm optimistic looking forward. One of my talking points this off-season was that the new guys couldn't possibly shoot threes worse than the 21% that Sanders, Williams, and Freeman produced. Well, through eight games Harper, Mathis, and McConnell are shooting 16%. Oops. I do think that will pick up, even if it's just to 25%. And the addition of Kiss and Omoruyi's newfound longball have offset that. Turnovers are up, which was easy to predict. The foul shooting is going to improve a little bit, but opponents are also going to shoot better than the 53.1% they've shot so far, so there's no hidden regression to be had at the stripe.

Will we finish higher than 14th? I still don't know. There's no doubt that we're a better team than last year but the Big Ten is also much improved. I'd like to say yes but the shooting overall has fallen short of my expectations and has especially been a letdown after the first two games. This is really going to be the key. The four freshman need to start putting the ball through the hoop while continuing to develop the rest of their games. The non-Harper freshman are shooting 31.7% on two pointers and the non-Johnson (he's 0-0) freshman are shooting 15.9% on three pointers. Even accounting for the fact that they're freshmen in their first eight games, those are bad numbers.

On the flip side, Baker, Omoruyi, Kiss, and Doorson have played really well. There are quibbles to be had but they're all positive contributors. The coaches do a good job, the team seems to have chemistry, and they play hard.

Right now I see one projection system (Torvik) has us going 15-15 (7-13). KenPom has us going 13-17 (5-15). I think splitting the difference at 14-16 (6-14) is the baseline for a good/successful season. Worse than that and I'll be disappointed. Better than that and I'll be very happy.
 
Hard to believe but we're roughly 25% of the way through the season. I can't always type out game thoughts like bac2therac and some others, but I wanted to collect my thoughts so far in one place.

Geo Baker
Grade: B+

He's being put in a tough position as the primary ballhandler and scorer on offense as a sophomore, and what's more it's not even his natural role. I expect Baker to really excel next year as a secondary ballhandler, and this experience will benefit him. His three-point shooting has been fantastic, and he's shown some ability to get to the rim. It's the stuff in between and the decision-making that knocks his grade down from an A. Not unexpectedly, he's still getting a feel for how to truly run an offense, especially against the better teams on our schedule. Sometimes he hands the ball off and checks out for an offensive series, and sometimes he forces a bad shot early in the shot clock. These are issues that can be smoothed out. Gets a B+ instead of an A- because he's yet to play a great game against a top-tier opponent, in my eyes.

Eugene Omoruyi
Grade: B+

Obviously the addition of a three-point shot is the story here. It was a big surprise and is huge for his game as it changes the way teams need to defend him. Although: he started 6 for 7 and is just 4 for 16 since. His rebounding numbers have predictably gone up with Freeman's departure and his two-point shooting has remained steady. Two things keeping him from an A: While he's elite at drawing charges, I think he may be relying too much on that as a defender. He was decent at generating blocks and steals a season ago but has hardly done it at all this year. Offensively, the ball gets stuck in his hands too often. After 13 assists and 12 turnovers in the first four games, he's assisted just 4 times and turned it over 15 in the last four. Obviously the step up in competition accounts for some of that... He's not going to be Ethan Happ passing out of the lane, but it's reasonable to want him to do a better job of dishing to teammates.

Shaq Doorson
Grade: B

If I was grading relative to my pre-season expectations, this would be an A++. He's clearly more mobile than he's ever been and done an excellent job of finishing at the rim, which seems like it'd be easy for a 7-footer but hasn't always been. You'd like to see him get some more touches inside. In poker they say if you're never caught bluffing, that means you aren't bluffing enough. Same for shooting: If you're not missing any shots, that means you're not attempting enough of them. He knows his own limitations and I'm not saying he needs to step out and start taking jumpers, but he's shown enough feel inside that more sets should be drawn up to get him the ball. Ward and Happ are very good so them having big games isn't surprising and isn't damning of Shaq's defense, but the B1G is full of quality big guys.

Peter Kiss
Grade: B

I was a little bit skeptical of how his shooting would transfer since he was inefficient at Quinnipiac, but so far so good. Even if he settles in as a 35% three-point shooter, it's something we've missed. While Baker and Omoruyi struggled a bit in the two B1G games, I thought Kiss was fantastic and that matches his reputation as a big-game guy. He brings energy and his defense has already seen big improvement from the first couple of games this year. He's going to be streaky -- he shot just 5-25 in a three-game stretch against SJU, EMU, and BU -- so we'll have to live with that. I'd like to see the defense continue to improve and for him to use his energy to help us break out of scoring droughts, not just to put exclamation points on big runs.

Shaq Carter
Grade: B-

I mean, this is kind of a mystery grade. He played 14 minutes of mostly garbage time, and then suddenly has 18 great minutes against Wisconsin. So I kind of split the difference here. Like Doorson, he knows his own game well and has shown a pretty good feel for the basket when he's close by. He played some good defense and also some bad, which isn't really surprising for a JUCO guy thrown directly into a B1G game. We're talking about a one-game sample so not many conclusions to draw. We'll see how many minutes he gets going forward.

Ron Harper Jr.
Grade: C+

Harper would get an A from me if only he could make shots. 3-22 from three and 3-9 from the line isn't going to cut it. He won the MidKnight Madness 3-point contest so I think it'll come around, but there have been some BAD misses. Other than that, I love his game. He always seems to be in the right place and he's made 17-25 from inside the arc. Like most freshman there are strides to be taken defensively but I'd like to see him get 16-18 minutes a night, because he impacts the game in a positive way when he's on the floor and I think the shots will start to drop.

Issa Thiam
Grade: C+

Essentially the opposite of Harper: Thiam hits three-pointers and plays good defense but otherwise he's invisible. 3-and-D is valuable but he needs to actually be attempting the threes for the formula to work. He's seemingly good for one great drive to the basket a game but never any more, and that's the same complaint I had last season. Part of the issue is that we don't have a natural distributor, but Thiam needs to be more assertive. Not that I'm saying anything that hasn't been said over and over again on this board.

Myles Johnson
Grade: C-

Not entirely sure what to make of Johnson. He looked really solid early on but his minutes have dwindled and his play has fallen off. Shades of Mamadou Doucoure from last season, who looked good in the non-conference and against Minnesota but turned into a nonfactor. Hopefully Johnson can avoid that fate, but the numbers are striking: Doorson is 16-17 and Carter is 7-10, while Johnson is just 9-22 from the floor and I don't recall seeing him take any jumpers so we're talking about shots near the rim that need to be hit at a higher rate. He's been alright defensively and on the glass, but nothing too special. I like his potential but I wouldn't be surprised to see Carter as the first big man off the bench for a while.

Caleb McConnell
Grade: D+

Another sort of mystery grade. He was a very nice surprise these last two games but there's also a reason Pikiell played Geo for 39 minutes against Miami. The shooting is rough (3-14 overall) but he's shown some ability to drive, can competently dribble, and isn't a zero defensively, which marks an upgrade over last year's backup PG situation.

Montez Mathis
Grade: D

There are some things Mathis does well: He can be a complete pest defensively, and he attacks the rim and draws fouls. Those are both important things that can be built on. However, he's been a total liability offensively. This isn't impugning his future potential or writing him off, it's just an evaluation of his play so far. 8-31 on two-pointers is brutal, and 3-14 from three isn't much better. He needs to improve at finishing at the rim and he needs to see when it's not there and back it out rather than force it up.

Mamdou Doucoure
Grade: D-

To whatever extent I expected a sophomore leap, it hasn't happened. How he went from 13 and 9 against Reggie Lynch, Jordan Murphy, and Minnesota early in last year's schedule to what he is now might forever be a mystery. He grabbed 6 boards in 10 minutes against EMU, a glimmer of hope, but has just 2 in 9 minutes since. His only made field goal was an ugly banked-in jumper against Fairleigh Dickinson. I have nothing else to say here.


Overall Grade: B
Why is this grade a B when so many players graded out lower? Simple: The coaching staff does a good job and this team plays hard. They're more as a team than the sum of the individual parts.

Outlook
I'm optimistic looking forward. One of my talking points this off-season was that the new guys couldn't possibly shoot threes worse than the 21% that Sanders, Williams, and Freeman produced. Well, through eight games Harper, Mathis, and McConnell are shooting 16%. Oops. I do think that will pick up, even if it's just to 25%. And the addition of Kiss and Omoruyi's newfound longball have offset that. Turnovers are up, which was easy to predict. The foul shooting is going to improve a little bit, but opponents are also going to shoot better than the 53.1% they've shot so far, so there's no hidden regression to be had at the stripe.

Will we finish higher than 14th? I still don't know. There's no doubt that we're a better team than last year but the Big Ten is also much improved. I'd like to say yes but the shooting overall has fallen short of my expectations and has especially been a letdown after the first two games. This is really going to be the key. The four freshman need to start putting the ball through the hoop while continuing to develop the rest of their games. The non-Harper freshman are shooting 31.7% on two pointers and the non-Johnson (he's 0-0) freshman are shooting 15.9% on three pointers. Even accounting for the fact that they're freshmen in their first eight games, those are bad numbers.

On the flip side, Baker, Omoruyi, Kiss, and Doorson have played really well. There are quibbles to be had but they're all positive contributors. The coaches do a good job, the team seems to have chemistry, and they play hard.

Right now I see one projection system (Torvik) has us going 15-15 (7-13). KenPom has us going 13-17 (5-15). I think splitting the difference at 14-16 (6-14) is the baseline for a good/successful season. Worse than that and I'll be disappointed. Better than that and I'll be very happy.
I think you are spot on. I think a few guys will move up a grade at your midterms.
 
I'm not a well informed BB person, but I do enjoy watching this team play. I totally agree with your call about this team playing better than the sum of its parts. Gio is in a very difficult situation but shows a tremendous team spirit as its leader. I like McConnell. He looks like he wants to be out there and shows a lot of energy.
If we are really the worst team in the league, then this league is pretty damn strong from top to bottom. I think a lot of teams are not looking all that forward to playing us after the last two games.
 
It seems you’re using an old school grading system. Don’t you know an A- is a low grade today? Seriously, the grades need to be against some expectations. Freshman courses are easier than upper level and so freshman should be graded differently as should bench players be viewed differently than starters. Everyone has a role; grade to that. The low C’s and D’s are just too harsh.
 
Goes to show fans only grade on PPG and shooting percentages....80% of the game is played without the basketball in a players hands.

I will add something that gets lost with fans that only follow the basketball and who shoots as important....during the 2nd half of Michigan State when Winston and Langford were running wild and Nick Ward was imposing his will, the team was absent of any athleticism except Mathis, who didn't look intimidated at all.

So a shot goes up from the perimeter and along the baseline it might have been Tillman or Ward rebounding the ball for Sparty and here comes Mathis jumping with a player 4 to 5 inches taller...he correctly tips the ball with his left hand, along the right baseline closest to the RU bench....keep in mind this was during one of MSU's runs.

Instead of clubbing Tillman with his right hand, which would have been a foul, he used his off hand to compete for the tip...tips away the rebound towards Eugene....Eugene grabs the rebound and gets fouled on the follow up.

Eugene missed the 1st FT but made the 2nd...maybe Eugene could have scored and got fouled and made a 3 point play...maybe Mathis gets called for a silly foul challenging for the rebound next time....that tip shows on tape when reviewing the game and gets lost because shooting percentages arent ideal....

In any event, the grades for Harper, McConnell and Mathis and a few other are to be kind, ridiculous....i can count at least 4 or 5 of Harper's baskets that were very timely or stopped runs by opponents. I don't know how fans watch games, but 95% of the fans follow the basketball....hence most fans lack what I would call good basketball awareness or knowledge.

Mathis defensively completely shut down his man most of the minutes he played vs Wisconsin.....sure the 2 fouls early weren't good, but the effort was there....and assuredly didn't show up on his HS tape all the time.

McConnell played MSU and Wisconsin with confidence and hit timely baskets. Most of the others are just based on scoring or stats, which have no real relevance in a team sport.

Not to bang on players because it's not my style but 85% of these grades are way off....the roster is held together because they play well as a unit and are well coached. You can't possibly have a B grade for the entire team and have half the roster with Cs and Ds....

I think the original poster is usually very on top of things, but i have to say....if fans are stuck watching who has the ball the most and grade based on that, what happens when Geo Bakers and Eugene stat lines arent ideal??

Does that mean they're not playing well on defense.....

Do they fight over screens in the post...??

Do the players understand what an opponent wants to run against us and instruct our players what to look for, to prevent baskets??

Probably best to just look at the overall product...I'm fairly confident that very few people on here can properly grade out a player's ability job and overall game.
 
Goes to show fans only grade on PPG and shooting percentages....80% of the game is played without the basketball in a players hands.

I will add something that gets lost with fans that only follow the basketball and who shoots as important....during the 2nd half of Michigan State when Winston and Langford were running wild and Nick Ward was imposing his will, the team was absent of any athleticism except Mathis, who didn't look intimidated at all.

So a shot goes up from the perimeter and along the baseline it might have been Tillman or Ward rebounding the ball for Sparty and here comes Mathis jumping with a player 4 to 5 inches taller...he correctly tips the ball with his left hand, along the right baseline closest to the RU bench....keep in mind this was during one of MSU's runs.

Instead of clubbing Tillman with his right hand, which would have been a foul, he used his off hand to compete for the tip...tips away the rebound towards Eugene....Eugene grabs the rebound and gets fouled on the follow up.

Eugene missed the 1st FT but made the 2nd...maybe Eugene could have scored and got fouled and made a 3 point play...maybe Mathis gets called for a silly foul challenging for the rebound next time....that tip shows on tape when reviewing the game and gets lost because shooting percentages arent ideal....

In any event, the grades for Harper, McConnell and Mathis and a few other are to be kind, ridiculous....i can count at least 4 or 5 of Harper's baskets that were very timely or stopped runs by opponents. I don't know how fans watch games, but 95% of the fans follow the basketball....hence most fans lack what I would call good basketball awareness or knowledge.

Mathis defensively completely shut down his man most of the minutes he played vs Wisconsin.....sure the 2 fouls early weren't good, but the effort was there....and assuredly didn't show up on his HS tape all the time.

McConnell played MSU and Wisconsin with confidence and hit timely baskets. Most of the others are just based on scoring or stats, which have no real relevance in a team sport.

Not to bang on players because it's not my style but 85% of these grades are way off....the roster is held together because they play well as a unit and are well coached. You can't possibly have a B grade for the entire team and have half the roster with Cs and Ds....

I think the original poster is usually very on top of things, but i have to say....if fans are stuck watching who has the ball the most and grade based on that, what happens when Geo Bakers and Eugene stat lines arent ideal??

Does that mean they're not playing well on defense.....

Do they fight over screens in the post...??

Do the players understand what an opponent wants to run against us and instruct our players what to look for, to prevent baskets??

Probably best to just look at the overall product...I'm fairly confident that very few people on here can properly grade out a player's ability job and overall game.

I appreciate the condescending reply. My favorite line is "scoring has no real relevance in a team sport."

Also I explained why the team grade is higher than the players' individual grades.

Not even going to bother responding to rest of this. Have a good day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUsojo
Please tell me who I'm wrong on. A guy can do every "little thing" right and that positive impact can be completely cancelled out (and then some) if he can't put the ball through the hoop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: winfield102
Hard to believe but we're roughly 25% of the way through the season. I can't always type out game thoughts like bac2therac and some others, but I wanted to collect my thoughts so far in one place.

Geo Baker
Grade: B+

He's being put in a tough position as the primary ballhandler and scorer on offense as a sophomore, and what's more it's not even his natural role. I expect Baker to really excel next year as a secondary ballhandler, and this experience will benefit him. His three-point shooting has been fantastic, and he's shown some ability to get to the rim. It's the stuff in between and the decision-making that knocks his grade down from an A. Not unexpectedly, he's still getting a feel for how to truly run an offense, especially against the better teams on our schedule. Sometimes he hands the ball off and checks out for an offensive series, and sometimes he forces a bad shot early in the shot clock. These are issues that can be smoothed out. Gets a B+ instead of an A- because he's yet to play a great game against a top-tier opponent, in my eyes.

Eugene Omoruyi
Grade: B+

Obviously the addition of a three-point shot is the story here. It was a big surprise and is huge for his game as it changes the way teams need to defend him. Although: he started 6 for 7 and is just 4 for 16 since. His rebounding numbers have predictably gone up with Freeman's departure and his two-point shooting has remained steady. Two things keeping him from an A: While he's elite at drawing charges, I think he may be relying too much on that as a defender. He was decent at generating blocks and steals a season ago but has hardly done it at all this year. Offensively, the ball gets stuck in his hands too often. After 13 assists and 12 turnovers in the first four games, he's assisted just 4 times and turned it over 15 in the last four. Obviously the step up in competition accounts for some of that... He's not going to be Ethan Happ passing out of the lane, but it's reasonable to want him to do a better job of dishing to teammates.

Shaq Doorson
Grade: B

If I was grading relative to my pre-season expectations, this would be an A++. He's clearly more mobile than he's ever been and done an excellent job of finishing at the rim, which seems like it'd be easy for a 7-footer but hasn't always been. You'd like to see him get some more touches inside. In poker they say if you're never caught bluffing, that means you aren't bluffing enough. Same for shooting: If you're not missing any shots, that means you're not attempting enough of them. He knows his own limitations and I'm not saying he needs to step out and start taking jumpers, but he's shown enough feel inside that more sets should be drawn up to get him the ball. Ward and Happ are very good so them having big games isn't surprising and isn't damning of Shaq's defense, but the B1G is full of quality big guys.

Peter Kiss
Grade: B

I was a little bit skeptical of how his shooting would transfer since he was inefficient at Quinnipiac, but so far so good. Even if he settles in as a 35% three-point shooter, it's something we've missed. While Baker and Omoruyi struggled a bit in the two B1G games, I thought Kiss was fantastic and that matches his reputation as a big-game guy. He brings energy and his defense has already seen big improvement from the first couple of games this year. He's going to be streaky -- he shot just 5-25 in a three-game stretch against SJU, EMU, and BU -- so we'll have to live with that. I'd like to see the defense continue to improve and for him to use his energy to help us break out of scoring droughts, not just to put exclamation points on big runs.

Shaq Carter
Grade: B-

I mean, this is kind of a mystery grade. He played 14 minutes of mostly garbage time, and then suddenly has 18 great minutes against Wisconsin. So I kind of split the difference here. Like Doorson, he knows his own game well and has shown a pretty good feel for the basket when he's close by. He played some good defense and also some bad, which isn't really surprising for a JUCO guy thrown directly into a B1G game. We're talking about a one-game sample so not many conclusions to draw. We'll see how many minutes he gets going forward.

Ron Harper Jr.
Grade: C+

Harper would get an A from me if only he could make shots. 3-22 from three and 3-9 from the line isn't going to cut it. He won the MidKnight Madness 3-point contest so I think it'll come around, but there have been some BAD misses. Other than that, I love his game. He always seems to be in the right place and he's made 17-25 from inside the arc. Like most freshman there are strides to be taken defensively but I'd like to see him get 16-18 minutes a night, because he impacts the game in a positive way when he's on the floor and I think the shots will start to drop.

Issa Thiam
Grade: C+

Essentially the opposite of Harper: Thiam hits three-pointers and plays good defense but otherwise he's invisible. 3-and-D is valuable but he needs to actually be attempting the threes for the formula to work. He's seemingly good for one great drive to the basket a game but never any more, and that's the same complaint I had last season. Part of the issue is that we don't have a natural distributor, but Thiam needs to be more assertive. Not that I'm saying anything that hasn't been said over and over again on this board.

Myles Johnson
Grade: C-

Not entirely sure what to make of Johnson. He looked really solid early on but his minutes have dwindled and his play has fallen off. Shades of Mamadou Doucoure from last season, who looked good in the non-conference and against Minnesota but turned into a nonfactor. Hopefully Johnson can avoid that fate, but the numbers are striking: Doorson is 16-17 and Carter is 7-10, while Johnson is just 9-22 from the floor and I don't recall seeing him take any jumpers so we're talking about shots near the rim that need to be hit at a higher rate. He's been alright defensively and on the glass, but nothing too special. I like his potential but I wouldn't be surprised to see Carter as the first big man off the bench for a while.

Caleb McConnell
Grade: D+

Another sort of mystery grade. He was a very nice surprise these last two games but there's also a reason Pikiell played Geo for 39 minutes against Miami. The shooting is rough (3-14 overall) but he's shown some ability to drive, can competently dribble, and isn't a zero defensively, which marks an upgrade over last year's backup PG situation.

Montez Mathis
Grade: D

There are some things Mathis does well: He can be a complete pest defensively, and he attacks the rim and draws fouls. Those are both important things that can be built on. However, he's been a total liability offensively. This isn't impugning his future potential or writing him off, it's just an evaluation of his play so far. 8-31 on two-pointers is brutal, and 3-14 from three isn't much better. He needs to improve at finishing at the rim and he needs to see when it's not there and back it out rather than force it up.

Mamdou Doucoure
Grade: D-

To whatever extent I expected a sophomore leap, it hasn't happened. How he went from 13 and 9 against Reggie Lynch, Jordan Murphy, and Minnesota early in last year's schedule to what he is now might forever be a mystery. He grabbed 6 boards in 10 minutes against EMU, a glimmer of hope, but has just 2 in 9 minutes since. His only made field goal was an ugly banked-in jumper against Fairleigh Dickinson. I have nothing else to say here.


Overall Grade: B
Why is this grade a B when so many players graded out lower? Simple: The coaching staff does a good job and this team plays hard. They're more as a team than the sum of the individual parts.

Outlook
I'm optimistic looking forward. One of my talking points this off-season was that the new guys couldn't possibly shoot threes worse than the 21% that Sanders, Williams, and Freeman produced. Well, through eight games Harper, Mathis, and McConnell are shooting 16%. Oops. I do think that will pick up, even if it's just to 25%. And the addition of Kiss and Omoruyi's newfound longball have offset that. Turnovers are up, which was easy to predict. The foul shooting is going to improve a little bit, but opponents are also going to shoot better than the 53.1% they've shot so far, so there's no hidden regression to be had at the stripe.

Will we finish higher than 14th? I still don't know. There's no doubt that we're a better team than last year but the Big Ten is also much improved. I'd like to say yes but the shooting overall has fallen short of my expectations and has especially been a letdown after the first two games. This is really going to be the key. The four freshman need to start putting the ball through the hoop while continuing to develop the rest of their games. The non-Harper freshman are shooting 31.7% on two pointers and the non-Johnson (he's 0-0) freshman are shooting 15.9% on three pointers. Even accounting for the fact that they're freshmen in their first eight games, those are bad numbers.

On the flip side, Baker, Omoruyi, Kiss, and Doorson have played really well. There are quibbles to be had but they're all positive contributors. The coaches do a good job, the team seems to have chemistry, and they play hard.

Right now I see one projection system (Torvik) has us going 15-15 (7-13). KenPom has us going 13-17 (5-15). I think splitting the difference at 14-16 (6-14) is the baseline for a good/successful season. Worse than that and I'll be disappointed. Better than that and I'll be very happy.

Thanks for the post. Tough agreeing or disagreeing with grades without knowing the grading scale. Overall, though, I think your grades are a little low, but I tend to look more at what I expected from a player. I would say that based upon performance and contribution to the team I'd give Geo an A- for sure. As for the frosh, again, graded against what? I really like what they've contribute so far so I'd give them all a bump up.
 
Please tell me who I'm wrong on. A guy can do every "little thing" right and that positive impact can be completely cancelled out (and then some) if he can't put the ball through the hoop.

you gave a relatively high grade to arguably our worst perimeter defender and someone who doesn't rebound enough...not naming names and not giving a grade though
 
Nice job by the OP, I think the overall analysis of each player is accurate, though I would probably increase Mathis to a C- and McConnell to a D (though, in fairness, his grade is largely "Incomplete" since he really hasn't played much).

To Hawk, I don't know how you can ignore the abysmal shooting of the freshman trio. Yes, they've all contributed positively in their own ways, but Harper's timely and effective 2-point shooting is offset and balanced out in negative fashion by his incredibly bad 3-pt. shooting (3-23!!). That evens out to a C grade, maybe C+ if you consider the positive impact he's had on defense and distributing the ball.

And Mathis has been absolutely LOST on offense in most games, and his shooting numbers reflect that. Yes, he has started to come on as a defensive stopper, but he's been mostly a liability on offense. That equates to about a C- in my view.
 
Please tell me who I'm wrong on. A guy can do every "little thing" right and that positive impact can be completely cancelled out (and then some) if he can't put the ball through the hoop.
Are you old enough to have seen Dennis Rodman play? If so, what grade would you have given him?
 
Goes to show fans only grade on PPG and shooting percentages....80% of the game is played without the basketball in a players hands.

I will add something that gets lost with fans that only follow the basketball and who shoots as important....during the 2nd half of Michigan State when Winston and Langford were running wild and Nick Ward was imposing his will, the team was absent of any athleticism except Mathis, who didn't look intimidated at all.

So a shot goes up from the perimeter and along the baseline it might have been Tillman or Ward rebounding the ball for Sparty and here comes Mathis jumping with a player 4 to 5 inches taller...he correctly tips the ball with his left hand, along the right baseline closest to the RU bench....keep in mind this was during one of MSU's runs.

Instead of clubbing Tillman with his right hand, which would have been a foul, he used his off hand to compete for the tip...tips away the rebound towards Eugene....Eugene grabs the rebound and gets fouled on the follow up.

Eugene missed the 1st FT but made the 2nd...maybe Eugene could have scored and got fouled and made a 3 point play...maybe Mathis gets called for a silly foul challenging for the rebound next time....that tip shows on tape when reviewing the game and gets lost because shooting percentages arent ideal....

In any event, the grades for Harper, McConnell and Mathis and a few other are to be kind, ridiculous....i can count at least 4 or 5 of Harper's baskets that were very timely or stopped runs by opponents. I don't know how fans watch games, but 95% of the fans follow the basketball....hence most fans lack what I would call good basketball awareness or knowledge.

Mathis defensively completely shut down his man most of the minutes he played vs Wisconsin.....sure the 2 fouls early weren't good, but the effort was there....and assuredly didn't show up on his HS tape all the time.

McConnell played MSU and Wisconsin with confidence and hit timely baskets. Most of the others are just based on scoring or stats, which have no real relevance in a team sport.

Not to bang on players because it's not my style but 85% of these grades are way off....the roster is held together because they play well as a unit and are well coached. You can't possibly have a B grade for the entire team and have half the roster with Cs and Ds....

I think the original poster is usually very on top of things, but i have to say....if fans are stuck watching who has the ball the most and grade based on that, what happens when Geo Bakers and Eugene stat lines arent ideal??

Does that mean they're not playing well on defense.....

Do they fight over screens in the post...??

Do the players understand what an opponent wants to run against us and instruct our players what to look for, to prevent baskets??

Probably best to just look at the overall product...I'm fairly confident that very few people on here can properly grade out a player's ability job and overall game.
Agree.
 
Are you old enough to have seen Dennis Rodman play? If so, what grade would you have given him?

I watched him play but I was not old enough to critically review his play.

I have his stat page pulled up right now. Quick tangent before anyone accuses me of doing otherwise: This is NOT how I arrived at my grades in the OP. I've been at every home game except the Boston U one and I've watched every other game on TV/BTN+.

But okay, I have Rodman's stats in front of me. Here's what I see: A guy who was an elite, elite rebounder and, when he took shots, made them efficiently. More assists than turnovers is also great for a big guy.

If I'm judging his entire career based on his stats, well, that's dumb, but I would say an A+. Seven straight seasons leading the league in rebounds per game is a hell of an accomplishment.

Now what does this have to do with my original post?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scangg
Nice job by the OP, I think the overall analysis of each player is accurate, though I would probably increase Mathis to a C- and McConnell to a D (though, in fairness, his grade is largely "Incomplete" since he really hasn't played much).

To Hawk, I don't know how you can ignore the abysmal shooting of the freshman trio. Yes, they've all contributed positively in their own ways, but Harper's timely and effective 2-point shooting is offset and balanced out in negative fashion by his incredibly bad 3-pt. shooting (3-23!!). That evens out to a C grade, maybe C+ if you consider the positive impact he's had on defense and distributing the ball.

And Mathis has been absolutely LOST on offense in most games, and his shooting numbers reflect that. Yes, he has started to come on as a defensive stopper, but he's been mostly a liability on offense. That equates to about a C- in my view.

Let's simplify it this way....if an offensive possession is completely shut down by the opponents defense and the ball lands in the hands of Mathis with under 5 seconds on the shot clock and he forces up a 3 pointer, that impacts your shooting percentages. I counted 2 dunk attempts where he was blocked or could have been fouled on at least 1.

If a player takes a charge like Eugene and forces a turnover, that's a big play because there's no shot attempt that you have to defend.

If Eugene gets the ball in the post and it "sticks" and the ball doesn't move but instead results in an awful looking shot, that kinda looks like what we had in spots with Freeman. I'd live with Eugene taking 4 to 5 3s a game vs holding the ball and turning it over.

I cautioned fans that Geo may have numbers that looked like 4 of 12 or 13 from the floor, as teams decided to focus on him. Were all of the shot attempts good shots, or against the end of the shot clock, or was it early offense...probably a mix of both.

How many shot attempts get passed up because we are not looking at the basket and passive, vs some of the 2 pointers made by Harper because he was decisive and made his basket.

And I am 100% sure these grades dont account for much defense, which is the baseline of the programs rebuild. I counted 2 layups Shaq Carter gave up, because his rotation was slow on defense vs Wisconsin, yet everyone is gaga over his reverse layups and soft hands around the basket. I like Carter but if he can't pick up the rotations and be a plus defender, then what do we have to rely upon when teams go inside for points against RU??

To kcg....I'm just aware that when you or anyone starts tossing around grades, it takes a life of its own. We already have had to walk back crazy comments about Carter being not a good use of a ship, McConnell this, Mathis that, Harper shooting this.....3 games into the season, Mac McClung was a huge miss or decommit....it all changes very quickly around here, without any recourse.

It's 8 games in and minds are already made up based on less than 100 minutes of actual game action. Probably harsh, but sometimes to get the point across, it had to be.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Goku
And I am 100% sure these grades dont account for much defense, which is the baseline of the programs rebuild. I counted 2 layups Shaq Carter gave up, because his rotation was slow on defense vs Wisconsin, yet everyone is gaga over his reverse layups and soft hands around the basket. I like Carter but if he can't pick up the rotations and be a plus defender, then what do we have to rely upon when teams go inside for points against RU??

To kcg....I'm just aware that when you or anyone starts tossing around grades, it takes a life of its own. We already have had to walk back crazy comments about Carter being not a good use of a ship, McConnell this, Mathis that, Harper shooting this.....3 games into the season, Mac McClung was a huge miss or decommit....it all changes very quickly around here, without any recourse.

You're 100% sure I didn't account for much defense, except I made the exact same Shaq Carter defense point:
He played some good defense and also some bad, which isn't really surprising for a JUCO guy thrown directly into a B1G game.

Your second point is a good one and perhaps I could have that more clear.
 
Dkostus absolutely owning PNJSF in this thread

As to the grades NJH has the right idea but is going too far with it. Both offense AND defense are important. Not factoring in Harper's very poor 3 point shooting start into his grade would be ridiculous. If you remove that he's gotta get an A for sure but it obviously has to be accounted for if you want to give a thoughtful and honest grade especially considering it was supposed to be one of his strengths.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MV9000 and dkostus
Dkostus absolutely owning PNJSF in this thread

As to the grades NJH has the right idea but is going too far with it. Both offense AND defense are important. Not factoring in Harper's very poor 3 point shooting start into his grade would be ridiculous. If you remove that he's gotta get an A for sure but it obviously has to be accounted for if you want to give a thoughtful and honest grade especially considering it was supposed to be one of his strengths.

I grade you a F-
 
Like I said up top, wanted to get my thoughts down. We'll see what changes by the end of the year. I expect a good deal will but not everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkostus
If you are total non factor on offense, including the foul line, you better bring it on defense to earn your C+. The freshman are forced to play so they have to be cut some slack. Really looking forward to next year.

It's finally enjoyable to watch RU hoops again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kcg88
I watched him play but I was not old enough to critically review his play.

I have his stat page pulled up right now. Quick tangent before anyone accuses me of doing otherwise: This is NOT how I arrived at my grades in the OP. I've been at every home game except the Boston U one and I've watched every other game on TV/BTN+.

But okay, I have Rodman's stats in front of me. Here's what I see: A guy who was an elite, elite rebounder and, when he took shots, made them efficiently. More assists than turnovers is also great for a big guy.

If I'm judging his entire career based on his stats, well, that's dumb, but I would say an A+. Seven straight seasons leading the league in rebounds per game is a hell of an accomplishment.

Now what does this have to do with my original post?
You're a passionate fan, so it's all good. I'm in the no grades camp because grades are usually based on a narrow perspective. For example, the value that McConnell has brought in the last two games is outstanding, imo, deserving of a much, much higher grade than you gave. Rodman's example was that he not only rebounded, but, defended, dove on the floor, tipped balls, enforced, and brought energy. These are things that are not taken into account by most fans. And an A+ is way too high a grade for him, lol. He wasn't Michael Jordan.
 
You're a passionate fan, so it's all good. I'm in the no grades camp because grades are usually based on a narrow perspective. For example, the value that McConnell has brought in the last two games is outstanding, imo, deserving of a much, much higher grade than you gave. Rodman's example was that he not only rebounded, but, defended, dove on the floor, tipped balls, enforced, and brought energy. These are things that are not taken into account by most fans. And an A+ is way too high a grade for him, lol. He wasn't Michael Jordan.

Hah. If a HoFer isn't an A+ then I'm not sure what is. With only 15 possible grades some weird grouping will happen.
 
Rodman is a perfect example of being a star in your role. His role was rebounding tough D hustle plays and getting under your opponents skin. He was a superstar in that role
 
Ok assessment by OP. Don't agree with the Johnson assessment. How has he fallen off? Pike stuck with Carter because he had a hot hand and provided some offense. I would not expect Carter to be the first big off the bench moving forward. Classic jumping to conclusions. Eventhough Carter was doing well, I was hoping Pike would put Johnson back in because I believe he would have given Happ a harder time to get going. Agree with NJH that you need to consider the intangibles . Love that Mathis seems to be embracing a role as defensive menace.
 
We have the most promising team we have had in quite a while. Jeez, “Why can’t we all just get along?”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scangg
And I am 100% sure these grades dont account for much defense, which is the baseline of the programs rebuild.

I dont see enough of this type of comment on the board. This is why I like Pike so much, he realizes that sound team D and strong rebounding will keep the team in almost every game regardless of if the shots are falling....then you continue to build from there and hopefully continue to progress the talent level year on year.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT