Do those schools you mentioned have men's programs that generate massive revenue to more than make up for the women's loss? Do those schools you mentioned have Mickey Mouse asst coaches for past fives years with an embarrassing asst coach budget?
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- Thread starter Jim_from_RU
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Are you going to elaborate or just blast away with blanket statement and saying nothing at the same time. Like to see the justification of a million dollar women's basketball coach with the mens bball and football programs in SHAMBLES of late, with a lack of acceptable training facilities, coaches, and resources.
You can criticize, but by any objective measure given recent performance, CVS is grossly overpaid, even if you ignore the fact that women's basketball operates at a huge deficit. Like an aging baseball star, she's getting paid for her past success, which RU cannot afford to do. She is getting paid at the top of the women's hoops coaching scale compared to her peers - the equivalent of Nick Saban or Urban Meyer money for football - with nothing close to their results. Imagine if RU spent that kind of money on a football coach?!
If our athletic program was in the black, it would be nice to have a great winning womens basketball team. But it isn't so why pay all that cash for her if the program can't draw fans and we are trying to stop bleeding money? It's a fact womens basketball isn't a cash cow to most universities. Why pay coaches like it is or could be?
What do you define as "massive"?
There are just 10 MBB programs that generate at least ten million dollars in profit.
You will be hard pressed to find a school that has made similar decisions in their athletic department as Rutgers has.
I do know of a P5 program with a struggling football program and a basketball program that is good but hasn't been past the sweet 16 in more than 10 years. Until recently their MBB assistant coaches were poorly paid but they were pretty good assistants -- one is now a HC at a MM. They don't have a practice facility either.
Their WBB program is pretty good and their WBB HC makes at least $1 million per year and I believe all of the assistants earn six figures.
I don't think they average 2k per WBB game.
If that's the going rate for a top notch Wrestling Coach......Yes.
Unfortunately the whole college model is flawed. Costs are way too high. I understand athletics are only a small part.
I don't have answers, but it is broke.
I don't have answers, but it is broke.
The Athletics Department pays. Donors can help fund non-revenue sports as well.
FIG....sounds like you want Rutgers in the Patriot League battling Bucknell, Siena and Northeastern.
Hobbs seems committed to Coach Stringer. He has stated that he is working on a four year deal for her.
It is a tough position to be in. She has had a lot of success with little resources. Earned a pay raise and then boom. She hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament since 2012 and hasn't been past the second round since 2009.
She runs a clean program, her players graduate and she's a good ambassador for the school. All those things probably make it difficult to fire her now. In fact, you could almost make a good case that she has earned the right to leave on her terms.
But I definitely feel where @RickB113 is coming from
It is a tough position to be in. She has had a lot of success with little resources. Earned a pay raise and then boom. She hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament since 2012 and hasn't been past the second round since 2009.
She runs a clean program, her players graduate and she's a good ambassador for the school. All those things probably make it difficult to fire her now. In fact, you could almost make a good case that she has earned the right to leave on her terms.
But I definitely feel where @RickB113 is coming from
They went to the NCAA's 2014-15 season. Made it to the second round where they were defeated by UCONN
Thanks for correcting me.
I used the info on her Wikipedia page and they show no postseason appearance in 2014-15 in her coaching record section. I thought that was odd since they listed the team's record as 23-10 (12-6).
Makes for an even stronger case for keeping coach Stringer.
I used the info on her Wikipedia page and they show no postseason appearance in 2014-15 in her coaching record section. I thought that was odd since they listed the team's record as 23-10 (12-6).
Makes for an even stronger case for keeping coach Stringer.
3 statements
1. Cost of a Rutgers education keeps going up and is too high for a NJ resident
2. Athletic department has a huge difference between costs and revenue
3. State of NJ is on a path of bankruptcy. Tough decisions will need to be made. Rutgers gets support from the state.
1. Cost of a Rutgers education keeps going up and is too high for a NJ resident
2. Athletic department has a huge difference between costs and revenue
3. State of NJ is on a path of bankruptcy. Tough decisions will need to be made. Rutgers gets support from the state.
You are way, way off base with your comments here. Rutgers is not unique, Rutgers has just been grossly mismanaged.
Rutgers tuition is in line with its peers.
Schools all over the country invest big in sports, and nearly all of them lose money. There is a reason for that. These schools lose money, and they are taking a full slice of P5 revenue. When we get our full share in 2021, we will be budget neutral. If you begin from the standpoint that usefulness is evidenced by profitability, there is no reason for universities as a whole, let alone sports programs. You would basically have to cut every extracurricular, every liberal arts major, and every sport but football. You would have the "Rutgers State University of Football, Men's Basketball and Science."
State of New Jersey is mismanaged. I am not sure how you think that will play out, but it is unlikely to have a significant effect on Rutgers operations.
1. How many are State Universities?
2. How many are on a path to bankruptcy?
The bubble of college tuition costs is about to burst. I believe there is going to be change.
Bottom line an athletic program losing 20 million dollars shouldn't be paying a coach of a program that can't bring revenue in a massive amount of money. Just makes no sense being in the business of women's basketball. Men's basketball on the other hand has the potential of turning a profit and lifting the caliber of student that chooses RU. Emphasis on the word potential.
2. How many are on a path to bankruptcy?
The bubble of college tuition costs is about to burst. I believe there is going to be change.
Bottom line an athletic program losing 20 million dollars shouldn't be paying a coach of a program that can't bring revenue in a massive amount of money. Just makes no sense being in the business of women's basketball. Men's basketball on the other hand has the potential of turning a profit and lifting the caliber of student that chooses RU. Emphasis on the word potential.
Irrelevant to this discussion. Athletics spending has nothing to do with that issue. Decades of reduced funding from the State is the root cause. Not unique to NJ but we are ahead of the pack.
And none of that comes from MBB or FB. If you what to reduce the "deficit" let me know which programs you'd like to cut.
This is a current events topic, but spending by the government on Rutgers or Athletics has noting to do with it.
An ever decreasing amount since the administration of Tom Kean Sr. The legislature has already made the "tough" decision to shift the costs of public college attendance from Trenton to students. Both parties for a long time.
Respectfully...
You are naive if Rutgers athletics won't get a spotlight when discussions about "fixing" NJ happens. If pensions are going to be cut people will look at the highest paid employees of the state.
The bubble is about to burst. Yes some of this stuff may be "current events" topics, but there is a tie. I understand athletics is only a small part of a college budget, but the microscope is about to be used and it will be examined why college costs so much. Especially in light of the fact it could become free to certain people.
You are naive if Rutgers athletics won't get a spotlight when discussions about "fixing" NJ happens. If pensions are going to be cut people will look at the highest paid employees of the state.
The bubble is about to burst. Yes some of this stuff may be "current events" topics, but there is a tie. I understand athletics is only a small part of a college budget, but the microscope is about to be used and it will be examined why college costs so much. Especially in light of the fact it could become free to certain people.
Anybody that looks as closely as you suggest can't sustain the "Got to stop wasting the taxpayer's money on exorbitant football coaches pay!" nonsense if they understand the facts on revenue sources. Presuming logic and reality trumps dogma.
You are attacking a particular coaches compensation with similar arguments. Perfectly legitimate to ask if she is worth what she's paid. Unlike Ash and Pickell her program's revenue does not support that level of pay. Not that her program is unique in that regard. I'd humbly suggest not using the reality free tactics of the haters in the media and faculty union in this regard.
I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure the coaches live under the Alternate Benefits Program for retirement, a defined contribution plan very similar to the contributory 401ks most corporations offer. That's what the administrators and faculty are provided. Not the standard defined benefit pension most state workers, including legislators, have. So the saving the pension brouhaha has nothing to do with what Stringer, or Ash, get paid.
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yes. ultimately you can look at Ash and hopefully Pikiell and financially justify their salary. The same can not be said for Stringer. That is the ultimate issue here. The financial backdrop I bring up is ultimately why I believe you can't overpay a women's basketball coach or a men's baseball or soccer coach.
the analysis I haven't done is what will our income statement look like when we receive a full share of B1G revenues. I would like to strive for the athletic department to break even if that is possible.
the analysis I haven't done is what will our income statement look like when we receive a full share of B1G revenues. I would like to strive for the athletic department to break even if that is possible.
Turn around men's basketball and you can start pencilling in $6,000,000+ per year from ticket sales, seat donations, parking and concessions.
What people aren't understanding is that sports aren't supposed to turn a profit although it would be nice. The "revenue sports" (poor name which directs the conversation surrounding them in the wrong direction IMO) is that sports are an extension of the schools MARKETING BUDGET and and useful tool to aid in ALUMNI GIVING.
Very good point. There are plenty of academic programs that would not stand up to the scrutiny of "Do your courses generate more in tuition than the cost to offer them?"
Not that it should. If we did we'd have only a handful of the most popular subjects, mostly more vocationally focused, and even larger classes. Maybe I'm pollyanna but something still to be said for a broad liberal arts education.
