Next up: Temple

[sah0770]

Yes and no. A lot of the kids who ended up at Temple who were from NJ made it clear that as long as Flood and Ash remained at Rutgers, they would never consider the schools. You could say it's similar to Rutgers' rise coincided with Syracuse's failure in NJ. The sheer numbers of quality NJ recruits at Temple now were higher than usual than any other time. When Rutgers was under Schiano and the early stages of Flood, you saw less quality second-tier NJ recruits at Temple.

Schiano: top-tier recruits considered Rutgers as well as the usual Power 5 schools.
second-tier recruits filled a spot at Rutgers when top-tier kids went elsewhere.
It resulted in fewer second-tier kids to Temple. Fewer hidden gems for them.

Flood: early stages (first year & half) was similar to Schiano, then it fell apart
Temple begin competing with Rutgers for more second-tier recruits and winning.
It resulted in the quality of play for Temple rises with More bowl games and NFL type players.

Ash: reduced Rutgers to third-tier NJ recruits and recruits from non-traditional areas.
Temple now becomes a local destination for some top-tier NJ recruits along with more second-tier.


Schiano will not stop them from winning. They have a good coach in place, but the quantity and quality of NFL players will dry up. Kids still want to play in a perceived better conference in front of large crowds. These kids know what Schiano did back in the day at Rutgers, and that's intriguing for kids to stay local and experience it.

This is a lot of BS...I'd love to know all the players Temple got commitments from that said "ash/flood don't recruit me, I'm not coming". Most of the players from NJ Temple has gotten haven't had RU offers or much fanfare at all. Temple has just developed them. Temple frankly just does a great job of identifying talent and developing players. It has done that since Al Golden. Even when Schiano was there, Temple was doing it. Tahir Whitehead, Mo Wilkerson, Steve Maneri, and Andre Neblett never had RU offers and all played in the NFL. That was just the Al Golden when the team was still building.

You are acting like Temple was regularly beating RU for recruits during the Ash/Flood years. That wasn't the case at all. RU did try and offer a couple recruits with Flood last minute before signing day in Michael Dogbe, Sean Chandler, and I think Linwood Crump but that was few and far between. Dion Dawkins, Hasaan Reddick, Ryquel Armstead, Matt Hennessy, Shaun Bradley, Julian Taylor, and Matt Ioannidis...These are all guys RU never called/offered and frankly not a lot of other schools did either.

It's also BS that the number of NJ recruits has gone up at Temple? Not sure where that came from. Temple has always recruited between 5-10 NJ recruits any given year. If anything, that number has gone down since Al Golden and Addazio were there going up against Greg back in the day.
2020 - 4
2019 - 5
2018 - 5
2017 - 2
2016 - 5
2015 - 7
2014 - 5
2013 - 9
2012 - 3

 

[cubuffsdoug]

This is a lot of BS...I'd love to know all the players Temple got commitments from that said "ash/flood don't recruit me, I'm not coming". Most of the players from NJ Temple has gotten haven't had RU offers or much fanfare at all. Temple has just developed them. Temple frankly just does a great job of identifying talent and developing players. It has done that since Al Golden. Even when Schiano was there, Temple was doing it. Tahir Whitehead, Mo Wilkerson, Steve Maneri, and Andre Neblett never had RU offers and all played in the NFL. That was just the Al Golden when the team was still building.

You are acting like Temple was regularly beating RU for recruits during the Ash/Flood years. That wasn't the case at all. RU did try and offer a couple recruits with Flood last minute before signing day in Michael Dogbe, Sean Chandler, and I think Linwood Crump but that was few and far between. Dion Dawkins, Hasaan Reddick, Ryquel Armstead, Matt Hennessy, Shaun Bradley, Julian Taylor, and Matt Ioannidis...These are all guys RU never called/offered and frankly not a lot of other schools did either.

It's also BS that the number of NJ recruits has gone up at Temple? Not sure where that came from. Temple has always recruited between 5-10 NJ recruits any given year. If anything, that number has gone down since Al Golden and Addazio were there going up against Greg back in the day.
2020 - 4
2019 - 5
2018 - 5
2017 - 2
2016 - 5
2015 - 7
2014 - 5
2013 - 9
2012 - 3

Temple had more access to NJ kids because most were turned off by Flood and Ash. There is a thing called a pecking order in recruiting. When top tier kids don't bite, you move on to the next wave like Chandler and Crump. So for you to sit here and say Rutgers doesn't or didn't recruit any of these kids is a lie. Rutgers was just late and unprepared. Second, each of the guys you named Whitehead, Wilkerson, etc. were known to be good players, but grades stopped recruiting for them before it started. If their grades were in order, those guys would have their share of offers, including Rutgers. It is known that Wilkerson and Whitehead had Schiano's eye, but they were beyond his help to get them into Rutgers.


Rutgers players and local coaches under Flood and Ash were telling kids not to consider Rutgers. I know of two incidents where Rutgers struck out before getting to the plate. One was with PJ Walker of Elizabeth, and the other I was waiting in the same room to meet with the HS HC who was meeting with a Rutgers coach. The HS HC didn't say the player has no interest but did say the kid has an idea of where he wants to play. The HC didn't want to burn any bridges for the future.

Perhaps, I shouldn't have said the quantity of NJ has changed at Temple. It should have said access to the amount of NJ talent increase because there was less competition due to the circumstance. Temple had better local recruiting while winning. Btw, Ash was too busy offering kids from Sweden and Germany than mining the local talent. Flood was more concerned with going to concerts than putting in the time to recruit and win.

 

[sah0770]

Temple had more access to NJ kids because most were turned off by Flood and Ash. There is a thing called a pecking order in recruiting. When top tier kids don't bite, you move on to the next wave like Chandler and Crump. So for you to sit here and say Rutgers doesn't or didn't recruit any of these kids is a lie. Rutgers was just late and unprepared. Second, each of the guys you named Whitehead, Wilkerson, etc. were known to be good players, but grades stopped recruiting for them before it started. If their grades were in order, those guys would have their share of offers, including Rutgers. It is known that Wilkerson and Whitehead had Schiano's eye, but they were beyond his help to get them into Rutgers.


Rutgers players and local coaches under Flood and Ash were telling kids not to consider Rutgers. I know of two incidents where Rutgers struck out before getting to the plate. One was with PJ Walker of Elizabeth, and the other I was waiting in the same room to meet with the HS HC who was meeting with a Rutgers coach. The HS HC didn't say the player has no interest but did say the kid has an idea of where he wants to play. The HC didn't want to burn any bridges for the future.

Perhaps, I shouldn't have said the quantity of NJ has changed at Temple. It should have said access to the amount of NJ talent increase because there was less competition due to the circumstance. Temple had better local recruiting while winning. Btw, Ash was too busy offering kids from Sweden and Germany than mining the local talent. Flood was more concerned with going to concerts than putting in the time to recruit and win.

First, you said "a lot of players"...you named two instances (2nd one I am not sure even applies to Temple). Two important factors lead PJ Walker to RU - Recruited at a QB (RU as DB), and Temple offered Jahad Thomas (who absolutely had a great Temple career). It isn't as simple as saying he didn't want to go to RU because of Flood.

Yes, you are correct in the fact Temple could take some lower standard athletes back in the MAC days and the two referenced may have been in that situation, but again there is no guarantee RU would have offered if they could get in anyway? Wilkerson did prep a year and stayed committed to Temple so not sure if he got his grades in order or not.

I am still not seeing your correlation here with a decreased access to talent. Again, Temple has always gotten contributors that are talented that RU either overlooks or doesn't evaluate correctly. I am not sure that will change much if at all. I mean, you named a couple kids but there are a whole host of NFLers from NJ that played a Temple the last 5-10 years. Most weren't on RUs radar at all. Keep in mind that it isn't just RU that misses a lot of these kids. A lot of the kids that Temple has developed didn't have a lot of FBS options. It isn't a vacuum with just RU and TU. Temple just does a great job at identifying/developing...It is ok to admit that...That isn't going to change IMO. Where RU is seeing success and needs success is that top end state talent. They are doing a much better job at getting the higher end NJ player this year to stay home. Most of these kids weren't realistic for Temple anyway. If anything, RU recruiting more high end talent out of NJ may open Temple up to get more skilled HS players in NJ that RU doesn't focus on because they are winning some recruiting battles they didn't in the past.

That is the way I look at it. If I have some time tonight, I'll run through the Temple 2020 team for you all.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

First, you said "a lot of players"...you named two instances (2nd one I am not sure even applies to Temple). Two important factors lead PJ Walker to RU - Recruited at a QB (RU as DB), and Temple offered Jahad Thomas (who absolutely had a great Temple career). It isn't as simple as saying he didn't want to go to RU because of Flood.

Yes, you are correct in the fact Temple could take some lower standard athletes back in the MAC days and the two referenced may have been in that situation, but again there is no guarantee RU would have offered if they could get in anyway? Wilkerson did prep a year and stayed committed to Temple so not sure if he got his grades in order or not.

I am still not seeing your correlation here with a decreased access to talent. Again, Temple has always gotten contributors that are talented that RU either overlooks or doesn't evaluate correctly. I am not sure that will change much if at all. I mean, you named a couple kids but there are a whole host of NFLers from NJ that played a Temple the last 5-10 years. Most weren't on RUs radar at all. Keep in mind that it isn't just RU that misses a lot of these kids. A lot of the kids that Temple has developed didn't have a lot of FBS options. It isn't a vacuum with just RU and TU. Temple just does a great job at identifying/developing...It is ok to admit that...That isn't going to change IMO. Where RU is seeing success and needs success is that top end state talent. They are doing a much better job at getting the higher end NJ player this year to stay home. Most of these kids weren't realistic for Temple anyway. If anything, RU recruiting more high end talent out of NJ may open Temple up to get more skilled HS players in NJ that RU doesn't focus on because they are winning some recruiting battles they didn't in the past.

That is the way I look at it. If I have some time tonight, I'll run through the Temple 2020 team for you all.

The PJ thing I got from someone involved with his recruitment. I'll PM you.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Btw, Ash was too busy offering kids from Sweden and Germany than mining the local talent.

Dude, don't be dissin' our Swedish pipeline!

 

[sah0770]

Dude, don't be dissin' our Swedish pipeline!

Temple actually has a starting OL from there that is probably a future NFL pick if he keeps progressing...so there is talent there lol

 

[anon_yoo6z3typpaw2]

I'm guessing the limit is five this year because of all the talent they lost on defense. Temple is not one of those programs that simply reload like Ohio State, Clemson, or even fellow G5 power Boise State. Also, there are questions about the current HC's ability to recruit Temple's standard recruiting footprint. He's a good coach but lacks the relationship with local HS coaches, and by the time he establishes a solid bond, it might be too late.


I don't think Temple will go anywhere, but the current climate has put a strain on the finances for a lot of schools, especially those who don't have access to tv money or other sources of revenue. That could be the cause of any change in status for Temple. Not on the field results.

i feel ya. the uncertainty surrounding carey's recruiting in philly/south jersey is definitely warranted. came into the job w/ no experience in that area and it doesnt seem like he's done much work there yet. we will see. week 2 will be a big game for ru. should be close

 

[sah0770]

i feel ya. the uncertainty surrounding carey's recruiting in philly/south jersey is definitely warranted. came into the job w/ no experience in that area and it doesnt seem like he's done much work there yet. we will see. week 2 will be a big game for ru. should be close

He seems to be doing a much better job securing local players this year compared to last year. Temple's historical recruiting footprint is PA, NJ, DMV really. Carey was brought on so late after the Diaz fiasco that they really didn't have a full year to evaluate and build relationships with the 2020 class locally as they probably should. He was still building a staff in April 2019 when recruiting really started for the 2020 class. 8/19 commits last year were from the "footprint". This year however, 7/9 so far are from that area. They do have some very good recruiters on staff and this is the 1st year that they have a full recruiting cycle start to finish. Jury is still out on if they can evaluate talent like the previous staffs and close on some bigger recruits. They did get Kobe Wilson from GA last year who had a late Georgia offer and he picked Temple even after getting that offer, so that is a good sign. Also beat out FSU for the NIU center GA transfer.

It may take a year or two for them to compete again for a conference title. Fickle is killing it at Cincy recruiting and they eed him to get a Big 10 HC job. UCF recruiting well like they always do.

 

[MADHAT1]

Hey, Temple Football replaces guys well on defense, produces National Football League guys, and many of the football recruits are from New Jersey. Here's how many football games we won recently.

Stick to football or you're banned.

But not considered P-5 material even in a great TV market, no matter how you try to spin it
The Owls will always be a little team in a big city and place card holders to Pervert St U in their own city along with being a distant 2rd to the Pitt and PSU ( P-5) programs in the state.


As for many recruits from Jersey, the Owls will always be in contention for average Jersey talent that wants a better chance to start and a few talented recruits that for one reason or another feel they don't fit in the RU program
But Rutgers will be the big boy to the Temple DB program and Owlies will always know that in their hearts.

Rutgers had two HCs that set back the FB program from the successfully one Schiano built.
But he's back and there's going to be trouble for Temple to even get the little attention it does in Philly now when Schiano becomes the talk of the town over how great Rutgers is doing..

 

[RUforlife]

The point to me is that there is plenty of talent in the area that even if Rutgers goes on to win 10 National Championships in a row, Temple should still be able to recruit enough talent to win in the AAC and become bowl eligible on a yearly basis depending on the coaching. Will they produce the # of pros they have in the past, maybe, that is really dependent on more than just how good Rutgers is, there is also Maryland, Penn State, Pitt, Virginia, Virginia Tech etc., which are all in their recruiting territory. It comes down to who they hire as a head coach and whether kids believe the staff can get them to the next level. This is simply not a Rutgers up, Temple down, situation, tons of other factors go into that equation, both can be up and/or down at the same time.

 

[BuggsyRU]

I think we have more Big Ten wins than Rutgers does since you joined the Big Ten, and we're not even in the conference! :Laughing

Stupid, and not even slightly funny since it is ridiculously untrue.

 

[bigmatt718]

Stupid, and not even slightly funny since it is ridiculously untrue.

No one claimed Temple alums to be smart.

 

[dontestrond]

Those guys Temple was getting were not the top NJ players. Top NJ players were going to other B1G schools or other Power 5 leagues. The players Temple was getting were guys that Flood used to get after he ran out of Schiano's last recruits. The arrival of Ash meant no connection to NJ HS, coaches, or recruits. Temple's success happened to take place during this time because of these events.

FYI: Schiano's last few recruiting classes were top NJ players.

I never said they were, but they were doing what a Schiano did prior to the NFL and that’s taking good players with speed and length and developing into NFL Draft picks. Player development and not looking at all those overrated kids coming out of the “Big North”

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

There are no gimmes on the schedule. There is a lot of work to do and no time to do it. Even if Schiano and the new coaches could improve every player by 25%-50% they would need time to do it.