NJ Home Demolitions

[Ban Basketball]

I haven't heard this story yet, but it is a bit Rutgers related, as an RU professor is interviewed in the segment.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...otion-evacuation-from-climate-change/2248073/

 

[RUskoolie]

Homes built in poor locations that are prone to flooding and are getting harder and harder to insure. You want to put that in the climate change bucket, knock yourself out...it's likely the houses should never have been built to begin with and FEMA is tired of the bailouts. The guy standing pat and being proud not to be bought out will be kicking himself when he can't sell for $5,000.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Homes built in poor locations that are prone to flooding and are getting harder and harder to insure. You want to put that in the climate change bucket, knock yourself out...it's likely the houses should never have been built to begin with and FEMA is tired of the bailouts. The guy standing pat and being proud not to be bought out will be kicking himself when he can't sell for $5,000.

This must be a fairly new thing though, as the one woman said that she's lived in her house for 56 years.

 

[RUskoolie]

This must be a fairly new thing though, as the one woman said that she's lived in her house for 56 years.

Right, how many times has it flooded in 56 years and a claim filed with insurance? They aren't doing this in areas with zero problems and they certainly aren't doing this because of the climate change hysteria from a 16 year old German girl.

 

[RUnTeX]

hysteria from a 16 year old German girl

I don't think even the Germans want to claim her as one of their own....I believe she's scandinavian (either Swedish or from one of the other countries).

 

[Ban Basketball]

Right, how many times has it flooded in 56 years and a claim filed with insurance? They aren't doing this in areas with zero problems and they certainly aren't doing this because of the climate change hysteria from a 16 year old German girl.

I don't know anything about it, so I would have no idea how many times it's flooded. I simply read the story and thought that it may be of interest to NJ people.

Whom the mysterious "German girl" that you're alluding to escapes me a bit, as there wasn't any mention of a 16 year old German girl in the story. perhaps you're thinking of another story about this?

Sorry to enrage you over a news story about home demolitions.

 

[RUskoolie]

I don't know anything about it, so I would have no idea how many times it's flooded. I simply read the story and thought that it may be of interest to NJ people.

Whom the mysterious "German girl" that you're alluding to escapes me a bit, as there wasn't any mention of a 16 year old German girl in the story. perhaps you're thinking of another story about this?

Sorry to enrage you over a news story about home demolitions.

Not enraged at all but it's fake news to frame the story as people needing their homes demo'd because sea levels are rising...when in reality it's because the government is tired of bailing these areas out because private insurance is smart enough to not insure them. That's all.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Right, how many times has it flooded in 56 years and a claim filed with insurance? They aren't doing this in areas with zero problems and they certainly aren't doing this because of the climate change hysteria from a 16 year old German girl.

Not enraged at all but it's fake news to frame the story as people needing their homes demo'd because sea levels are rising...when in reality it's because the government is tired of bailing these areas out because private insurance is smart enough to not insure them. That's all.

I'm not a physical scientist, and nor do I try to play one in the classroom or on the internet, so I'm not going to surmise how much of this is related to climate change.

However, and with that said, if these homes have been routinely flooding for the 56 year period that this woman has lived in her home, why didn't they raze the homes years prior, if these homes have been flooding for that many years?

Seems like kind of poor oversight to me, if they've been regularly flooding for over half a century.

 

[retired711]

Not enraged at all but it's fake news to frame the story as people needing their homes demo'd because sea levels are rising...when in reality it's because the government is tired of bailing these areas out because private insurance is smart enough to not insure them. That's all.

It's not fake news -- any scientist will tell you that ocean levels in the area are rising. It is not entirely because of climate change -- New Jersey, for instance, is gradually sinking, in part because of overuse of its aquifers-- , but, as the same scientist will tell you, climate change plays a role. As water temperatures increase, water molecules spread apart, raising the level of bodies of water, and there is more melting of ice. These are undeniable facts.

Edit: If you don't believe that water levels are rising, go down to Cape May and take a look at the Spruce Goose, the attempt by Howard Hughes to build a wooden battleship. When it was beached at the end of World War II, it was at the water's edge -- now it's way in the water as ocean levels rise.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Seriously, anyone who has spent any time over the past few years at the Shore could tell you flooding is getting way worse. It's not just Sandy. Many storms before and after.

We did not always have this kind of flooding. And NJ isn't even close to as bad as Miami is.

We could argue about solutions but I don't understand the denial that this is some kind of coincidence.

It's only gotten somewhat better here in Hudson County because they built more underground utilities to push the water out. At the shore that isn't going to work.

 

[RUskoolie]

I'm not a physical scientist, and nor do I try to play one in the classroom or on the internet, so I'm not going to surmise how much of this is related to climate change.

However, and with that said, if these homes have been routinely flooding for the 56 year period that this woman has lived in her home, why didn't they raze the homes years prior, if these homes have been flooding for that many years?

Seems like kind of poor oversight to me, if they've been regularly flooding for over half a century.

Because FEMA finally said enough is enough. If private insurance companies who actually have to turn a profit to stay in business...if they stop insuring areas then only FEMA can do it. FEMA doesn't care if they lose money because they belong to the government who will just print more of it.

When FEMA finally says they're done, then you need to pull the plug.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Because FEMA finally said enough is enough. If private insurance companies who actually have to turn a profit to stay in business...if they stop insuring areas then only FEMA can do it. FEMA doesn't care if they lose money because they belong to the government who will just print more of it.

When FEMA finally says they're done, then you need to pull the plug.

I understand that; my 100 year old home flooded for the first time in 2008, but I'm still curious as to why FEMA and other agencies took THAT long to raze the homes, given that they've been flooding for over 50 years.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Seriously, anyone who has spent any time over the past few years at the Shore could tell you flooding is getting way worse. It's not just Sandy. Many storms before and after.

We did not always have this kind of flooding. And NJ isn't even close to as bad as Miami is.

We could argue about solutions but I don't understand the denial that this is some kind of coincidence.

It's only gotten somewhat better here in Hudson County because they built more underground utilities to push the water out. At the shore that isn't going to work.

I've also not talked to, or heard from, an Alaskan that doesn't say the same things, mainly in how the State is getting warmer each year.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Seriously, anyone who has spent any time over the past few years at the Shore could tell you flooding is getting way worse. It's not just Sandy. Many storms before and after.

We did not always have this kind of flooding. And NJ isn't even close to as bad as Miami is.

We could argue about solutions but I don't understand the denial that this is some kind of coincidence.

It's only gotten somewhat better here in Hudson County because they built more underground utilities to push the water out. At the shore that isn't going to work.

It's so noticeable in New Jersey because tourism is a $7 billion part of the NJ economy and home rule allowed these little fiefdoms to develop along the shore with their 8 figure mansions. If New Jersey protected it's coastline like California, we wouldn't see iphone videos of submerged houses and cars between the Ocean and the Bay every nor'easter.

 

[e5fdny]

If you build your house on the side of an active volcano...the lava is your problem not mine.

 

[NotInRHouse]

It's so noticeable in New Jersey because tourism is a $7 billion part of the NJ economy and home rule allowed these little fiefdoms to develop along the shore with their 8 figure mansions. If New Jersey protected it's coastline like California, we wouldn't see iphone videos of submerged houses and cars between the Ocean and the Bay every nor'easter.

I wasn't even thinking of the wealthiest areas but Mantaloking is a pretty good example because of Sandy. Ironically places like Bradley Beach were decently prepared but wealthier towns were not.

 

[NotInRHouse]

If you build your house on the side of an active volcano...the lava is your problem not mine.

True but there were definitely places where people did not know. After Sandy they were demoing homes in Howell- way in from the beach.

Eventually with the cost of flood insurance, the shore is going to be mostly part time vacation owners and investment properties. Maybe that's OK, but it is going to be a character change.

 

[Ban Basketball]

If you build your house on the side of an active volcano...the lava is your problem not mine.

Active volcanoes offer a tad bit more danger and recklessness to live next do than do 500 year flood plains, which now seem to be routinely flooding. They sure are here in Iowa.

 

[e5fdny]

True but there were definitely places where people did not know. After Sandy they were demoing homes in Howell- way in from the beach.

Did not know? LOL

The Atlantic Ocean and Mother Nature did this after reading your post...

Active volcanoes offer a tad bit more danger and recklessness to live next do than do 500 year flood plains, which now seem to be routinely flooding. They sure are here in Iowa.

Did it rain that much more?

 

[Ban Basketball]

Variety of factors, but, yes, torrential rains have been a big part of it. Pair that with rapid snowmelt, ice dams, field tiling, and all of those factors are translating into more flooding in areas that never received it.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Did not know? LOL

The Atlantic Ocean and Mother Nature did this after reading your post...

Did it rain that much more?

Yeah west of Route 9 I'm not expecting my whole home to be flooded. Basement yes, but this was much different.

https://archive.centraljersey.com/2...sandy-residences-demolished-in-moors-landing/

 

[e5fdny]

Variety of factors, but, yes, torrential rains have been a big part of it. Pair that with rapid snowmelt, ice dams, field tiling, and all of those factors are translating into more flooding in areas that never received it.

Man made?

Yeah west of Route 9 I'm not expecting my whole home to be flooded. Basement yes, but this was much different.

https://archive.centraljersey.com/2...sandy-residences-demolished-in-moors-landing/

Like parts of Wayne, maybe something shouldn’t have been built there?

 

[Ban Basketball]

Man made?

Like parts of Wayne, maybe something shouldn’t have been built there?

Yes, but farmers have been tiling fields for decades, although more do it today than ever, so it isn't just that.

We have also been getting more torrential rains than before, but pair that with more tiling and our creeks fill up faster than before.

 

[e5fdny]

Yes, but farmers have been tiling fields for decades, although more do it today than ever, so it isn't just that.

We have also been getting more torrential rains than before, but pair that with more tiling and our creeks fill up faster than before.

I guess more isn’t always better. Again, man made.

 

[Ban Basketball]

I guess more isn’t always better. Again, man made.

Ironic, as I was just talking about this last night, but none of us had any vested interests in pointing fingers at the cause, we just all knew that we have more and bigger floods these days than we've had.

I wish we knew the cause that simply, as we'd stop it just as simply.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I understand that; my 100 year old home flooded for the first time in 2008, but I'm still curious as to why FEMA and other agencies took THAT long to raze the homes, given that they've been flooding for over 50 years.

Because it wasn't politically expedient to do so - bad press for the politicians.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Man made?

Like parts of Wayne, maybe something shouldn’t have been built there?

I am pretty sure that area flooded for many years for a much longer time. I forget the name of the neighborhood.

The street I linked up did not. Yes, Monmouth County generally has a high water table. But that's very different from a flooded basement to totally destroyed homes and it is becoming a more recent phenomenon.

I think there is a difference between moving into a well known area that floods regularly versus people who got destroyed after Irene and Sandy and more recent floods that didn't flood for a decade or two before like in Wayne.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Another issue with Howell: farmlands absorb a LOT of rainwater. When those farms are developed into McMansions and shopping centers, that rain has to go somewhere.

I have the same thing ever since my jackass neighbors all installed inground pools over the last few years. My French drain was bone dry and my sump pump had cobwebs in it for the first 10 or so years.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Another issue with Howell: farmlands absorb a LOT of rainwater. When those farms are developed into McMansions and shopping centers, that rain has to go somewhere.

I have the same thing ever since my jackass neighbors all installed inground pools over the last few years. My French drain was bone dry and my sump pump had cobwebs in it for the first 10 or so years.

Not sure what was on the development I linked up but it didn't become mansions. Those homes don't have basements, so the river actually flooded the first floor of the homes. But that whole area has a lot of homes that never should have had basements. My parents' basement flooded pretty regularly. The houses across the street didn't have basements, but one neighbor had a pool and ground was so unstable they eventually had to fill it in.

 

[e5fdny]

Another issue with Howell: farmlands absorb a LOT of rainwater. When those farms are developed into McMansions and shopping centers, that rain has to go somewhere.

I have the same thing ever since my jackass neighbors all installed inground pools over the last few years. My French drain was bone dry and my sump pump had cobwebs in it for the first 10 or so years.

Not sure what was on the development I linked up but it didn't become mansions. Those homes don't have basements, so the river actually flooded the first floor of the homes. But that whole area has a lot of homes that never should have had basements. My parents' basement flooded pretty regularly. The houses across the street didn't have basements, but one neighbor had a pool and ground was so unstable they eventually had to fill it in.

It’s why some (most) places won’t let you go crazy with impervious coverage.

Like @RUJohnny99 says...the water has to go somewhere.

 

[NotInRHouse]

It’s why some (most) places won’t let you go crazy with impervious coverage.

Like @RUJohnny99 says...the water has to go somewhere.

Yeah NJ is definitely getting better with this. The insane cost of flood insurance and/or lifting homes is demographically altering the shore though. Places are sitting on the market because unless you're a cash buyer the mortgages require very steep flood insurance. I think we'll see more condos because at least the cost is pooled together.

 

[e5fdny]

It should be private insurance too.

And if you can’t afford it or afford to live in certain areas, too bad.

Move and live where you can.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Because it wasn't politically expedient to do so - bad press for the politicians.

Two questions then, as I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

One, ALL politicians, over the course of a half of a century, have allowed repeated flooding to occur, even when it was costing the public billions of dollars over the course of these years? Not one politician has raised an alarm bell? Two, why didn't FEMA begin the process of razing these homes decades ago, when this recurrent pattern of flooding had been occurring and it was costing them billions?

 

[Ban Basketball]

Another issue with Howell: farmlands absorb a LOT of rainwater. When those farms are developed into McMansions and shopping centers, that rain has to go somewhere.

I have the same thing ever since my jackass neighbors all installed inground pools over the last few years. My French drain was bone dry and my sump pump had cobwebs in it for the first 10 or so years.

Not here in Iowa, as I mentioned before. Ideally, yes, farmland SHOULD absorb water (natural wetlands are the best at doing this, but those also get plowed under to make more room for farming), but in farm country that grows cash crops, far too many are tiling their fields today, thus running the excess water into streams and rivers.

 

[Ban Basketball]

It should be private insurance too.

And if you can’t afford it or afford to live in certain areas, too bad.

Move and live where you can.

I'm assuming that it's the same where you live, but, at least in Iowa, if you live in a flood plain you are require by law to carry private flood insurance. I'm guessing it's that way where you live, as well.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Right, how many times has it flooded in 56 years and a claim filed with insurance? They aren't doing this in areas with zero problems and they certainly aren't doing this because of the climate change hysteria from a 16 year old German girl.

Was that after they bombed Pearl Harbor?

 

[knightfan7]

This must be a fairly new thing though, as the one woman said that she's lived in her house for 56 years.

Started doing it after Sandy.

 

[knightfan7]

I'm assuming that it's the same where you live, but, at least in Iowa, if you live in a flood plain you are require by law to carry private flood insurance. I'm guessing it's that way where you live, as well.

Not a law as far as I know. If you have a loan on the house the bank will require Flood Ins. I don't have a loan but do pay a nominal amount, less than 10% what I was paying before raising the house 2 years ago.

 

[Ban Basketball]

If you have a loan on the house the bank will require Flood Ins.

Actually, that may be the case here as well. Thanks for the clarification.