http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/...emands_in_court.html#incart_river_mobile_home
At least someone is trying...
At least someone is trying...
Nonprofit fighting to stop Xanadu bond issue
- Thread starter CornerTavern
- Start date
The idea of a billion dollars (additional) in taxpayer money to build a shopping mall that nobody will go to should really piss people off a lot more than it has.
This has been the biggest public disaster in NJ in all of history and yet people don't care. I don't understand.
Not so much that people don't care, but it seems like we're powerless to do anything to stop it. One would have hoped that Christie kept the momentum from his early first term (ARC project shutdown from overruns as an example) but that didn't happen. The only way to stop this is to challenge it (and the power of the NJSEA) in court.
Myhatinthering, NJ can always use another good teacher, come out and make a difference. Teach in districts I've taught in.
It's the NJSEA, so there are limits on what Christie can do. Nonetheless, he has the bully pulpit and should have used it.
Malls in general are very risky now with the shift to online buying. Building a massive mall is a really crazy idea.
How do you know I haven't taught?
Also, you make the grave mistake of equating criticism of education as a criticism of teachers. As I'm sure you are aware, education encompasses so much more than that. I hope you understand the difference here
Even if people go to it, it will siphon traffic from other malls in the area. It is not going to generate all that much new revenue; it's just going to move it from one place to another.
By this I assume you mean what happens at home, or at least away from school, which I don't think is included when people criticize the education system.
Remember when Zoffinger and/or his son would come here to defend it? It's crazy.
scratching my head
I suggest you guys go back and read the original comment and in the context of the discussion.
Education begins with the state and ends in the home. Between those two inputs, there are a litany of things that encompass education in NJ
But when people criticize public education, don't you think they are pointing directly at the states end of the deal?
Your original comment does not seem to answer this question.
huh...were we not talking state level disasters?
As for you immediate question, all politics are local but the root of most local issues arise at the state level. Education is rife with so many issues that teaching has become one giant scoresheet to state mandated testing with the outer bands of traditional child educational development be damned!
Let's try to stay on topic here. Totally agree with what's said here. Every time I go past this I think about the $$$$$$$$$ that Christie and his pals continue to waste on this bull$hit project. And yet we have roads and bridges to fix, and pensions to fund, which is the state's obligation. I think about how tolls (taxes) have increased so markedly and how the books of slush funds like the PA are cooked, and how Sandy $$$$$$ is still not fully distributed but "connected" Wall Street firms continue to take $$$$$$$ out of taxpayers pockets. Disgusting.
Other than people who stand to personally profit from this fiasco, does any John Q. Public really support this development?
It's NJ corruption at its finest. Harvard Business Review should do a case study on this shit.
It's NJ corruption at its finest. Harvard Business Review should do a case study on this shit.
Why not put Kyle Flood in charge of the project. When it collapses we can collect the insurance money to pay off the bonds.
It's always an easy argument to say education sucks in NJ and people will agree and think the grass is greener in other places, but its just not true. At least independent education rankings tell a different story. CNN best states to raise children - NJ #2 in education, Huffington Post - NJ #1, Education Week - NJ #2, Wallet Hub - NJ #2. The NEA states NJ is #3 in $$$ spent per student. NJ's math and reading scores are consistently in the top 5 in the US as well.
My wife works with young kids from many different towns like Newark, Orange, Chatham, Livingston, West Orange, etc. The nicest facilities she has worked in are the elementary schools in Newark and Orange, which are new. The biggest difference between the towns is the parents' involvement in their kids education. In the worse towns, education ends when school ends every day and parents do not get involved in homework, progress reports and updates. In the good towns, parents are very involved in all aspects of the education. It's easy to blame schools, administrators, teachers, lack of money, but what people never want to mention are the parents.
The only thing I'll take issue with here is your characterization of "good towns." The issue so often is economic and cultural, many generations deep. It's a challenge that money alone will not fix, but without it we have no chance whatsoever.
That is a fair point and I meant no slight - I meant there is probably a large gap in education statistics between towns based on wealth.
What is interesting is the retail landscape has changed over the past 5 years or so when this shopping mall 1st broke ground.
Stores like Sports Authority are out of business. Retail has become more e-tail with online shopping.
I think the expectations for the traditional retailers are different now than 5 years ago.
Experience related stores or stores not easily replaced online will do better:
- Dave and Busters
- Bowlmor
- Ice Skating
- Home Depot
- Food Stores
- Restaurant s / bars
- Kumon / home work help places
- Furniture / appliance stores
- NYSC / Retro gyms
The traditional Macys, Bed bath beyond, Best Buy, or Walmart may not meet the expectations from 5 years ago.
They may even want to put a couple of office buildings next to the mall so that they have guaranteed customers. With the rail and bus service right there it may be good to lure some NYC companies to NJ. the Newport mall is an example of this since many business people go to the food court for lunch and pick up gifts at the mall.
Stores like Sports Authority are out of business. Retail has become more e-tail with online shopping.
I think the expectations for the traditional retailers are different now than 5 years ago.
Experience related stores or stores not easily replaced online will do better:
- Dave and Busters
- Bowlmor
- Ice Skating
- Home Depot
- Food Stores
- Restaurant s / bars
- Kumon / home work help places
- Furniture / appliance stores
- NYSC / Retro gyms
The traditional Macys, Bed bath beyond, Best Buy, or Walmart may not meet the expectations from 5 years ago.
They may even want to put a couple of office buildings next to the mall so that they have guaranteed customers. With the rail and bus service right there it may be good to lure some NYC companies to NJ. the Newport mall is an example of this since many business people go to the food court for lunch and pick up gifts at the mall.
Taxpayers don't care. You want them to care? Send a billion to Rutgers, then all hell will break loose.
Take the education discussion elsewhere. This Xanadu topic is one we should all be united against.
Trust no one besides that company from Canada wants the stupid Xanadu project to happen.
Malls are a thing of the past. Malls are closing down throughout the united states.
Who the hell needs to go to the mall anymore when you have Amazon and other on-line vendors?
Also , besides MetLife, there is no reason to ever go to that place, I just can't see anyone going out of their way for mall.
I much rather my tax money go to something else.
Interesting points overall, but wasn't the anchor of that project some kind of first-in-the-US indoor ski park? Seems like the definition of experience-based space and the poster boy for everything that was wrong with Xanadu, all at the same time.
Stop it, that's crazy talk. That would incite riots in the streets of our McSuburbs.
I'm not defending this monstrosity, but going back to the OP, the "non-profit" in this story is a well funded shell organization, likely set up by competing commercial interests in the area.
The lawsuit is arguing something fairly silly in order to generate press. Anyone with a day's experience in the muni industry knows this. It's essentially arguing Clinton or Trump should start signing bills before getting elected. It's got the timing all wrong.
Also, just in regards to this article and not previous expenditures, issuing a billion dollars in debt doesn't mean a billion dollars in taxpayer money. They are completely different concepts.
Again, I'm not defending Xanadu. Just commenting on the article/reaction.
The lawsuit is arguing something fairly silly in order to generate press. Anyone with a day's experience in the muni industry knows this. It's essentially arguing Clinton or Trump should start signing bills before getting elected. It's got the timing all wrong.
Also, just in regards to this article and not previous expenditures, issuing a billion dollars in debt doesn't mean a billion dollars in taxpayer money. They are completely different concepts.
Again, I'm not defending Xanadu. Just commenting on the article/reaction.
It is bonding capacity that could be used on things that are actually needed. It is a limited resource.
My initial reaction from experience would say that's not accurate. There's a 1% chance there's some weird conduit quirk where this sale crowds out another, but I haven't researched this specific one.
I'll take a look when the POS (muni prospectus) comes out.
that project can't be real. It has to be some kind of joke on the people of this state.
Its literally the biggest middle finger to the taxpayers you can possibly create.
They keep adding and adding to the project without any signs of finishing.
No seriously.. this is the most corrupt thing that has probably ever happened in the construction field.
Its literally the biggest middle finger to the taxpayers you can possibly create.
They keep adding and adding to the project without any signs of finishing.
No seriously.. this is the most corrupt thing that has probably ever happened in the construction field.
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Again corruption in NJ where big money get their way this is Zoffinger and family making the people pay for his stupidity. the state have no business backing this business failure.
If this is such a great opportunity it would have been built by a private company.
It is a white elephant that is yesterday ideas from the 20th century and is a BAD move in the 21st century We can not stop Zoffinger throwing his money at corrupt politicians but we can VOTE OUT the slobs taking their money to get the taxpayers to bale them out!!!
I think the Home Depot is in Bergen County.**
**This reference will be utterly lost on anyone who hasn't been on this board for more than 10 years.
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