OT - Asbury Park - It's all good until an 8-year old gets shot
- Thread starter T2Kplus10
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The good parts are not a deal anymore and haven't been for at least 7 years. So my only assumption is that your i laws bought these rental properties at least 12 years ago. Anything inside of 7 years your not making significant returns.
Why would we be shocked at the resistance of local residents to the forced taking of their property at low rates? The same thing happened in Long Branch where residents were forced out of beach front homes and were given buyouts based on properties sold inland, blocks from the beach. Your lawyer is an ass trying to use local governments to force people out of their homes so he could make a profit.
I agree with this. The boardwalk is okay but seems like there should be more there. The immediate few blocks off the boardwalk seem to be a waste of ugly space and blight that should be put to good use with businesses but why isn't it.
So you're saying local residents objected to outside investors using eminent domain to reap risk free profits?
Shocked I tell ya...shocked.
Shocked I tell ya...shocked.
Eminent domain is supposed to be used only for projects with a common public purpose--the kind of projects that don't usually make already wealthy private investors yet more money. The fact that your lawyer was trying to use it to his benefit says more about him than the local residents.
Indeed
And the fact that he pulled his investment with a small profit and is complaining about it makes him an asshole...
Resort like atmosphere in Asbury Park today ? LOL. Setting the bar way too low of what a resort like atmosphere should look and feel like. If AP beachfront is a resort then to you you are likely a Bennie.
Bingo. Love AP now and loved it 30+ years ago, when it was a little more "gritty." It always had a soul and a great music scene - it just used to be a little more dangerous back then and there were less yuppies in the way...
Let's see, a new wide boardwalk, the best collection of eateries in any Jersey shore town, maybe any town, period. Art galleries, antique pinball arcade, water park, historic hotels, new high rise development, a historic convention center, iconic music venues. Call it whatever you want - asbury park is dope, and I grew up in belmar, so you're the benny, which by the way you spelled wrong..
I hear what you are saying and Asbury has improved a lot BUT there is a disconnect between the boardwalk and whats downtown. Yes you have the boardwalk but lets not exaggerate whats there, there are some nice places to eat. The water park isn't something to brag about. I find the boardwalk rather boring actually and its small and the north end isn't even developed. Once you go a block away from the boardwalk its like a bomb hit it besides the dive bars and stone pony. To me there just seems something lack in that whole area by the boardwalk. I hear they are putting up some monstrosity high rise condos where that old construction was stopped about 7 years ago. Hopefully they plan on putting some reasonable price things retail place there and some eateries that are not pricey. Would help if the place got a convenience story that's desperately needed there. It seems as if the beach people and the boardwalk people are two separate entities that go and they don't necessarily mix. There are no inexpensive hotels to stay overnight and there really are no business catering to day trippers from the beach
I understand what you're saying and it's still all happening. It's already my favorite spot for a beach day. There's really no beach town that touches it right now if you are looking for beach and non children oriented entertainment
There's a specific reason why the immediate few blocks are a waste. I'll give you a little inside baseball. @lighty can probably fill in whatever I missed. Back in 2001 the "new" city council (4/5 of which are still in power) were faced with a huge budget deficit. They made a crappy deal with a developer, Larry Fishman. He gave them $6.5 million to plug their deficit and in return he got development rights to everything from Grand Avenue (5 blocks in) to the ocean. He presented this amazing concept where there would be shopping 3 blocks away from the beach and condos 2 blocks in. He was going to blow up C8, the massive unbuilt condo skeleton right on the beach. IIRC, it was 4,000 condos, and 200,000 sq ft of shopping. He had a plan that went out to 2031, and essentially had Asbury as a premier destination.
Well, the council cashed the check & Larry got to work. He developed all the city owned property & tried to seize all the property East of Grand Ave. He knocked down the Palace (a national landmark) and blew up C8. But something happened when he tried to seize private property: the owners lawyered up & fought him. So, he built up the condos where he owned city owned property and fought back in court to seize the private property. Fast forward to about 2007, property values are booming, and Fishman negotiated into the agreement with Asbury that the properties seized would be at 2001 prices. Essentially, if the property owners lost, they would be selling their property for 1/4 of the true market value. The courts threw out the agreement, and Larry walked away. (He easily made $200 million on his original $6.5 million investment). In comes a vulture investor, who bought the development rights to Asbury & gave the city another million or two of cash. Fast forward to about 2012 & the vulture investor sold out to some marketing company named Madison Marquette, and there is no development going on, but a marketing blitz to make Asbury seem like it's the "in" place on the Jersey Shore. And the properties that Larry was able to buy look like $#it, and the properties he couldn't get his hands on are beautiful.
sheet....the entire west side burned in 1970. Once it hit the white sections of Asbury, the cops shut it down. Funny thing is, the bullets don't cross the tracks.
stay east of the tracks, no problems.. i've lived around here my whole life.. i'm no angel and have broken that rule multiple times, you can probably figure why.. but it's that simple .. stay east of the tracks, if you're white don't be hanging out on the west side
There was a good documentary on the Asbury Park eminent domain issue that I saw at the Rutgers Film Festival probably 7 years ago or so. (To the poster who talked about his lawyer friend who invested $2 million dollars - you should probably watch this - btw didn't think you were going to get much sympathy here for him - lol) It was called Greetings from Asbury Park. It is not for sale, and once in a blue moon it will come on PBS. I'm pretty sure it is at some libraries in Monmouth County (checked Middlesex County and it's not there).
Movie Trailer
Movie Website (not too much info here)
http://www.greetingsfromasburyparkmovie.com/
Movie Trailer
Movie Website (not too much info here)
http://www.greetingsfromasburyparkmovie.com/
I've worked all over NJ including Newark and Camden. I spent time as a process server to earn a few extra bucks. I've worked security at bars. In almost 66 years I've had a gun pulled on me once. Where? Sedalia, Missouri by some drunk farm boy. Fortunately I was with my two roommates who had gone to school after serving in Nam, had "experience", and were able to keep their heads while I was crapping my pants lol.
The point is unfortunately it can happen anywhere and with the proliferation of firearms it is almost a way of life these days throughout the country.
Are you kidding? There are very different parts of Asbury Park. The parts of town are separated physically and are worlds apart.
Listen Hudson, I'm not a big proponent of eminent domain because most of the time little people end up getting screwed and rich people get richer. But there are two sides to every story. Just 25 years earlier you literally could not give a house away in Asbury Park. Moving forward, just 15 years ago (because of the gay communities interest in AP) you might sell that same house for 75K and trust me it's a big big maybe. Then someone invested money on the boardwalk and the same property owner thinks his or her house is worth $900K. Well, you know and I know that intelligent people (like my attorney) will walk away. But what's the end result? You seem to champion the homeowner as if they're the bigger winners here. They're not, because at the end of the day 3 to 4 blocks off the board walk the same people who said no to eminent domain are still living in a cesspool filled with violent crime, disease and despair. So, who really wins and loses in this scenario? A great example is Atlantic City. In one or two short decades when it officially collapses people will understand that if eminent domain was properly administered in AC it would have been the jewel of the Jersey Shore.
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The bad deals and especially the deals with Larry Fishman definitely screwed the town. It's funny, I see people in Asbury that act like the RU fans who swear we will never get the best NJ recruits, never get a great coach, and should be happy beating a couple of teams each year and getting blown out.
In Asbury, there were a lot of people who bought into the idea that the town could never come back. So they sold the rights to EVERYTHING to one developer -- and a developer that didn't even have a good track record. Any time you see an area that looks horrible near the ocean, chances are it was because of this deal.
As someone that grew up around Red Bank and Asbury, I never understood why people thought the town couldn't come back. People thought the same thing about Red Bank for years -- the local nickname was Dead Bank. Yet it was always a town with a beautiful lakefront/marina area and a great downtown for shopping and restaurants. Eventually, it came back in a big way.
Asbury's comeback had little to do with the people in charge and more to you with the gay population that saw cheap housing by the Shore, bought and fixed the houses, and made the neighborhoods safer. One of the big keys is that many did not have children, which meant they saved the town money in many ways.
Thousands of people still come to Asbury from around the world because of its music history. Sadly, the town has never taken advantage of music tourism. There were about 10,000 music tourists a summer in the late 1980s when the small rock and roll museum was around. Those numbers were pretty amazing for a place with no marketing budget and long before the Internet. Judging by the crowds from Europe that still come for the Light of Day shows, that music audience could still be tapped if done properly. Unfortunately, the one constant throughout my life is Asbury's failure to understand marketing.
In Asbury, there were a lot of people who bought into the idea that the town could never come back. So they sold the rights to EVERYTHING to one developer -- and a developer that didn't even have a good track record. Any time you see an area that looks horrible near the ocean, chances are it was because of this deal.
As someone that grew up around Red Bank and Asbury, I never understood why people thought the town couldn't come back. People thought the same thing about Red Bank for years -- the local nickname was Dead Bank. Yet it was always a town with a beautiful lakefront/marina area and a great downtown for shopping and restaurants. Eventually, it came back in a big way.
Asbury's comeback had little to do with the people in charge and more to you with the gay population that saw cheap housing by the Shore, bought and fixed the houses, and made the neighborhoods safer. One of the big keys is that many did not have children, which meant they saved the town money in many ways.
Thousands of people still come to Asbury from around the world because of its music history. Sadly, the town has never taken advantage of music tourism. There were about 10,000 music tourists a summer in the late 1980s when the small rock and roll museum was around. Those numbers were pretty amazing for a place with no marketing budget and long before the Internet. Judging by the crowds from Europe that still come for the Light of Day shows, that music audience could still be tapped if done properly. Unfortunately, the one constant throughout my life is Asbury's failure to understand marketing.
Lightly: there is no master plan!! The planning and zoning board have been neutered by the media and anti eminent domain attorneys. Look at what's happening all over AP. A developer buys a piece of property goes the municipality, gets variances approved for that specific lot and puts up apartments, condos or food establishment. Have you seen what went up 100 feet behind the stone pony? Who in there right mind was going to dump 575K on a town home behind a concert arena? So they ended up selling for 385K probably to someone who will only rent them out.
Not supporting one side or the other but without eminent domain you will not have a well planned community: Beach Area (boardwalk - restaurants & Bars -parking & facilities) Downtown Area (shops & boutiques - parking) Residential (single family homes - town homes - condos - lodging). I know for a fact that at different times during the past twelve years Marriott, Hilton, K-hovnanian and a big developer from Piscataway sat down with local officials from AP and lawmakers from Trenton
and all have walked away. Too risky!!!
