OT: Battle for Atlantis Bahamas

[NickRU714]

What did Greene Rice FIG say, no one remembers games in November. What you do in March goes down as a legendary event.

Obviously.
But have to actually make it to March first.

The only problem I see with our OOC schedule is that it leaves no margin for conference play.

Bad OOC is fine - just don't lose the games (which we haven't done yet any year).
Let's actually have a clean OOC and see where that gets us first.

 

[NickRU714]

We were 16-7/8-4 and in 2nd place in the B1G walking out of MSG after the MSU game. We were looking more like a 5 seed than a bubble team. Our OOC impact paled in comparison to the 3-7 (3-8 if you count Hofstra) finish to the season.

Alternatively, our OOC performance didn't allow us the ability to have a poor finish to the season?

If we had a clean OOC, perhaps it would have mitigated the 3-7 finish enough to make the tournament?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Weaker OOC means you need to win more games
Stronger OOC means you need to lose less games

Weaker OOC makes it easier to win games
Stronger OOC makes it easier to lose games

I haven't seen anyone on this message board make a strong convincing argument why one path is better than the other for our program.

It is a VERY debatable topic, but most seem to just look at 1 sided.

"we missed the tournament because our schedule is weak"

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Is there an acknowledgement from people.....

1. We play defense at a different level than most and ask more from our players
2. Outside of maybe a year we lack depth
3. The last 2 years our team as the season was finishing. Tank was on E?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If you are a baseball GM and have the ability to make the dimensions of your baseball stadium would you make it pitcher friendly or hitter friendly?

 

[bac2therac]

It should be a goal to earn the highest seed possible if we are a tourney team. Playing a non conference schedule like we have will never allow that. We will be always in the last teams in seeds 10-12 unless we schedule better. Heck, we could’ve finished top 4 in big ten standings last year with no Mag Injury, and 20 wins, but likely still at best would have been a 7 seed due to our lack of non conf wins. Scheduling matters people. We learned it the hard way last year.

No matter how many times its explained to them they will still cling to their arguments that non conference performance does not matter even as the ncaa committee specifically says o in its criteria page

 

[bac2therac]

Weaker OOC means you need to win more games
Stronger OOC means you need to lose less games

Weaker OOC makes it easier to win games
Stronger OOC makes it easier to lose games

I haven't seen anyone on this message board make a strong convincing argument why one path is better than the other for our program.

It is a VERY debatable topic, but most seem to just look at 1 sided.

"we missed the tournament because our schedule is weak"

Everybody Else is Doing It So Why Can't We

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No matter how many times its explained to them they will still cling to their arguments that non conference performance does not matter even as the ncaa committee specifically says o in its criteria page

Of course it matters. Record matters too.

Is 18-13 and a loss to Tennessee BETTER than
19-12 with a win vs LIU

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Everybody Else is Doing It So Why Can't We

That doesnt make it the optimal thing to do.

No other team in the country had 6 playable players in rotation playing defnese like we do.

Happy Thanksgiving Bac!

 

[bac2therac]

Of course it matters. Record matters too.

Is 18-13 and a loss to Tennessee BETTER than
19-12 with a win vs LIU

Yes

 

[RutgHoops]

10-10/12-8/10-10. Those are our B1G records the last three seasons. Finishing 13-7 or 14-6 instead of 10-10 would have a much bigger impact on our ability to qualify for the NCAAT and/or our seeding than would playing Duke or Gonzaga in the OOC.

The final 10 games last year was arguably the easiest stretch of our season. If we went 6-4 down the stretch and finished 22-10/14-8 we would have been a 5 or maybe 6 seed and no one would be saying s--t about our OOC.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Yes

Really?

 

[RutgHoops]

Alternatively, our OOC performance didn't allow us the ability to have a poor finish to the season?

If we had a clean OOC, perhaps it would have mitigated the 3-7 finish enough to make the tournament?

Every one is entitled to their opinion but I simply don’t believe if we lost to Duke instead of Temple last season (for example) that would have mattered on Selection Sunday.

We played the 45th toughest schedule in the country last season. I have a hard time believing if it was the 39th toughest or 35th toughest that would have mattered. But we can never know for sure.

 

[bac2therac]

Every one is entitled to their opinion but I simply don’t believe if we lost to Duke instead of Temple last season (for example) that would have mattered on Selection Sunday.

We played the 45th toughest schedule in the country last season. I have a hard time believing if it was the 39th toughest or 35th toughest that would have mattered. But we can never know for sure.

It was around 300 non conference
.rutgers is not a dominant program. It has straddle the bubble for 4 years..these things matter

 

[ruinac]

Every one is entitled to their opinion but I simply don’t believe if we lost to Duke instead of Temple last season (for example) that would have mattered on Selection Sunday.

We played the 45th toughest schedule in the country last season. I have a hard time believing if it was the 39th toughest or 35th toughest that would have mattered. But we can never know for sure.

The 45th toughest schedule is mid-pack for a major conference and not going to earn you extra points for an at-large bid. Losing to a top 25 team versus beating a #300 may not have gotten RU in last year, but beating #25 sure would have. Why must we assume we would have lost such a game? Why not think about what a win would have done? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Beefing up the OOC schedule without a three game tournament would be ideal. I think more than half of them are not good and are played in half empty arenas. Pitt/Florida played in Brooklyn last night in the preseason NIT (whatever it’s called) in front of what looked like about 2 thousand people. That’s terrible. Who wants that? Get a game at the garden and play some games on the road. Apparently no one wants to play at the RAC. That’s been a hurdle for us.

I’m for either or both, but I wouldn’t discount the Tournaments, it’s not about the crowd at the game, these are big television events that get a lot of hype and press in the basketball community. My larger point is our new recruits will want to play on a bigger stage, because that is already what they have been doing. Dylan has grown up playing against Ian Jackson, who is going to North Carolina. He is not going to be happy watching Ian on playing games against Villanova, UConn, Kentucky, Oklahoma, and either Arkansas, Michigan or Memphis (that is UNC’s OOC schedule this year), while he is stuck playing Scared Heart and Merrimack.

 

[RutgHoops]

Oklahoma State played the 8th toughest schedule in the country a year ago. They played UConn in what would be defined as a “fine” OOC schedule for a high major. They were 18-15/9-11 and went to the NIT. Even though they played one of the toughest schedules in the country.

You can play as hard a schedule as you’d like, but if you don’t go .500 or better in conference you are a bubble team. Right side/wrong side depends on the year. But if you are 9-11/10-10 in conference you are sweating Selection Sunday regardless of your OOC.

 

[High Quality H2O]

Is there an acknowledgement from people.....

1. We play defense at a different level than most and ask more from our players
2. Outside of maybe a year we lack depth
3. The last 2 years our team as the season was finishing. Tank was on E?

But here’s the kicker we started off this year with more guys in the rotation, which kept minutes down, but 3 guards played better once their minutes went up.

So less minutes…more in the tank…but less chemistry/gel/rhythm….?

It will be interesting to see if guys get / stay healthy and Pike can thread the needle between keeping the rotation short enough that we are in sync and long enough that guys are not on E come March.

 

[biazza38]

I’m for either or both, but I wouldn’t discount the Tournaments, it’s not about the crowd at the game, these are big television events that get a lot of hype and press in the basketball community. My larger point is our new recruits will want to play on a bigger stage, because that is already what they have been doing. Dylan has grown up playing against Ian Jackson, who is going to North Carolina. He is not going to be happy watching Ian on playing games against Villanova, UConn, Kentucky, Oklahoma, and either Arkansas, Michigan or Memphis (that is UNC’s OOC schedule this year), while he is stuck playing Scared Heart and Merrimack.

So that’s why we’ll beef up the schedule. And these tournaments are not as big of a television event as you think they are. No one is watching college basketball today with football on. Maui invitational is great, but a lot of these tournaments are worse than the low major bowl games for college football. No one there, no one watching, no atmosphere. It doesn’t even simulate a neutral site tournament game. I know I’m being harsh, but I guess it’s something Pike with have to figure out. But yes, I totally agree we need a better schedule.

 

[RutgersChow]

I would think that telling a junior in high school that as a freshman you'll be going to Hawaii or the Bahamas would be a nice recruiting tool. Also, giving most 18 year olds the choice of going to the Bahamas in December or freezing their a_ses off in NJ - I'm pretty sure there is a pretty clear choice there.

 

[bac2therac]

Oklahoma State played the 8th toughest schedule in the country a year ago. They played UConn in what would be defined as a “fine” OOC schedule for a high major. They were 18-15/9-11 and went to the NIT. Even though they played one of the toughest schedules in the country.

You can play as hard a schedule as you’d like, but if you don’t go .500 or better in conference you are a bubble team. Right side/wrong side depends on the year. But if you are 9-11/10-10 in conference you are sweating Selection Sunday regardless of your OOC.

Osu was 17-15 and only 1-11 vs upper tier Q1

They were 6-12 over in Q1 yet only had 4 wins over NCAA teams..Iowa State 2x, WVU and TCU. They didnt go because they didnt belong and didnt beat anyone OOC

Not a NCAA team so whats your point. If they scheduled Bumblee State instead of Uconn and finished 18-14 they still wouldn't make it

If they beat UConn and finished 18-14 they likely dance

By the way their non conference sos was an unimpressive 193

 

[RU_DIO]

Games in Battle 4 Atlantis are played in the Convention Hall. Not sure of the seating capacity but i think its about 2000 or more. There are so many wealthy alumni from all the schools here. I was just given a tour of a suite by UNC fans that are staying in it. Marble everywhere, 2 huge balconies. Absolutely beautiful. Atlantis is very expensive.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Iowa got smoked by Oklahoma

 

[biazza38]

Iowa got smoked by Oklahoma

They’re in a 4 team tournament. That’s what I would want

 

[bac2therac]

Nova wins in OT

Tell me why Steve Pikiell is still afraid to play tournaments

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Nova wins in OT

Tell me why Steve Pikiell is still afraid to play tournaments

Sha isn’t
They’re on fs1 now vs usc

 

[RU_DIO]

Best conversation I've had here so far was with a 'Nova dad. His other son plays football for OSU. He said when his son was being recruited Michigan went after him hard. He said Harbaugh turned them off because he's a weird dude and scratched them off the list.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Atlantis is great...loved it when I was there. ...but even if RU went to this tourney, could see people here then complaining about RU picking a place with Hotel rooms @ $500+ per night.

Why would you think our fan base would Complain about that? Because of the cost of parking at RAC went up ?!?!? 🤪

 

[hinson32]

This thread is pretty funny.
if we have Ace, Dylan, and Gavin, we’re gonna boost our OOC schedule. No way we’re not going to play nationally televised games in OOC play

Want to bet?

 

[BOGDANOVICH]

Want to bet?

When Dylan, Ace, and Gavin are here next year, Pike will still play a weak OOC schedule. He is who he is.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Dylan should tell Pike, "Coach, I'm ready to commit to RU, but only if you drastically improve the OOC schedule in 2024-25."

Would Pike agree or let Harper walk?

Just thinking out loud before I hit the hay...

 

[Kbee3]

When Dylan, Ace, and Gavin are here next year, Pike will still play a weak OOC schedule. He is who he is.

Sounds like fun. I can't wait.

 

[biazza38]

You guys are miserable. You’re complaining about the 2025 schedule when it hasn’t even been released

 

[hinson32]

When Dylan, Ace, and Gavin are here next year, Pike will still play a weak OOC schedule. He is who he is.

I agree with you.

 

[hinson32]

You guys are miserable. You’re complaining about the 2025 schedule when it hasn’t even been released

I am not complaining, but to think Pike is all of a sudden going to change his philosophy on scheduling doesn't seem viable. .

 

[biazza38]

I am not complaining, but to think Pike is all of a sudden going to change his philosophy on scheduling doesn't seem viable. .

He’s tried to schedule Gonzaga and that fell through. We also had Baylor scheduled at MSG, but then the OOC schedule was shortened because of Covid. Last year was also supposed to be Providence, not Temple. Schools like Duke, Kansas, Unc, etc have a much easier time with their schedule because of who they are. If we have Ace and Dylan on our team, we will definitely get some assistance from the networks with our scheduling. We’ve had terrible luck with the Gavitt games and no one wants to come to the RAC. I will be shocked if we don’t see an uptick in scheduling

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It was around 300 non conference
.rutgers is not a dominant program. It has straddle the bubble for 4 years..these things matter

Is it possible that Rutgers straddled the bubble BECAUSE of the weak OOC scheduling?

In other words we wouldn't even be on the bubble if we had a harder schedule.

We obviously never know what injures are going to look like.

Go back and look at Pike's record playing teams with pulses in November.

2023 lose to temple and Miami
2022 lose to DePaul and UMASS

Why do we think we would win games at these tournaments?

We were on the bubble at 18-13 last year. Upgrade 2 of those games, we aren't in any conversations at 16-15.

 

[bac2therac]

He’s tried to schedule Gonzaga and that fell through. We also had Baylor scheduled at MSG, but then the OOC schedule was shortened because of Covid. Last year was also supposed to be Providence, not Temple. Schools like Duke, Kansas, Unc, etc have a much easier time with their schedule because of who they are. If we have Ace and Dylan on our team, we will definitely get some assistance from the networks with our scheduling. We’ve had terrible luck with the Gavitt games and no one wants to come to the RAC. I will be shocked if we don’t see an uptick in scheduling

Pike seems to be the only one in the country where games just fall through every year

 

[NickRU714]

Is it possible that Rutgers straddled the bubble BECAUSE of the weak OOC scheduling?

In other words we wouldn't even be on the bubble if we had a harder schedule.

We obviously never know what injures are going to look like.

Go back and look at Pike's record playing teams with pulses in November.

2023 lose to temple and Miami
2022 lose to DePaul and UMASS

Why do we think we would win games at these tournaments?

We were on the bubble at 18-13 last year. Upgrade 2 of those games, we aren't in any conversations at 16-15.

The problem isn't the weak OOC.
It's the weak OOC and LOSING the weak OCC.

As you point out - we keep losing these games.
If we are 20-11 with wins over Temple/SHU - aren't we in?

If yes, then the OOC schedule didn't keep us out.
The losses in OOC helped keep us out.

 

[bac2therac]

's t possible that Rutgers straddled the bubble BECAUSE of the weak OOC scheduling?

Rutgers has done poorly OOC during Pikes tenure. 99% of the power 6 schools are ready to go and challenge the program by playing in tournaments, including every Big 10 school but somehow Rutgers is some special case

Rutgers is currently following the much made fun of Boeheim playing all his non conference games without leaving the state of NY...RU gets one at Wake who is a lesser ACC program.

I wonder if the Miss State deal is one shot or not