OT: Fiscal year 2023 audited financial statements for Rutgers athletics
- Thread starter Fat Koko
- Start date
From 2010 to fall 2022 enrollment dropped an average of 30% across Penn States 19 branch campuses that deliver mostly undergrad in person instruction.
Pitt suffers the same problems but fortunately for Pitt they have to deal with it at only 3 branch campuses (discussed Pitt Titusville).
Pitt has about 29,000 students accepted into the Oakland Campus and about 4,500 students at the 3 branch campuses.
Just more than half or about 50,000 students are accepted into Penn State University Park campus and about 38,000 students at the 19 branch campuses.
Again most colleges/universities are facing mounting financial problems due to decreasing student body which pay the bills.
Out of control cost for athletics (NIL, HC salaries, assistant coaches salaries, facility upgrades etc.) at some point will have to face reality.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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Didn't a few of the smaller PA state schools just merge?
At least in NJ we don't seem to have this enrollment issue at public schools.
Yes you are correct.
I mentioned it in a previous post.
Pa recently combined 6 state schools into just 2 schools Penn West and Penn East.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Didn't the gov just send a proposal today? Have to take a look though just saw the headline
Would be helpful if you were more direct in what your desire is for RU Football/Sports or what you would potentially offer as a solution to the problems you express. Your posts (especially this one which is similar to the Rutgers1000 talking points...."This spending is at odds with the educational mission of a taxpayer-funded university") seem to indicate that you prefer Rutgers to move away from P5 Football, which would mean a departure from the BIG, which would equate to a loss in any related conference/broadcast revenue.
If not departure from P5 Football - then what? In order for Rutgers to spend less on its football coaching staff they would have to essentially fire and replace most of the entire staff, hire a completely new staff while continuing payouts on any relevant contracts. This would essentially be what they did with Chris Ash (i.e. hiring on the cheap). We've pretty much all seen how that works out in terms of fan interest and results......and likely revenue.
They merged but really not much have changed. While they save some with admin/faculty sharing, stream lining majors but they pretty much still operate independently as they all have their own campuses, support facilities and administrations. I never heard anyone refer to it as Commonwealth University - Lock Haven...they all still call it Lock Haven University.
The bottom line in PA is they are simply stretched too thin and try to support to many schools. Between the two systems (Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education and Commonwealth System of Higher Education) they have 14 universities, 55 total campuses, 257,543 students, 3 D1 athletic departments, 16 D2 athletic departments, 7 D3 athletic departments and 14 JUCO athletic departments. You simply can not support that much and make it affordable.
| Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education | ||||||
| School | Campuses | Enrollment | D1 | D2 | D3 | JUCO |
| Cheyney University of Pennsylvania | 1 | 618 | 1 | |||
| Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania | 3 | 14933 | 3 | |||
| East Stroudsburg University of Pennsylvania | 1 | 7,234 | 1 | |||
| Indiana University of Pennsylvania | 4 | 9764 | 1 | |||
| Kutztown University of Pennsylvania | 1 | 8309 | 1 | |||
| Millersville University of Pennsylvania | 1 | 8505 | 1 | |||
| Pennsylvania Western University | 3 | 14447 | 3 | |||
| Shippensburg University of Pennsylvania | 1 | 8253 | 1 | |||
| Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania | 1 | 8806 | 1 | |||
| West Chester University of Pennsylvania | 2 | 17719 | 1 | |||
18 | 98588 | 0 | 14 | 0 | 0 | |
| Commonwealth System of Higher Education | ||||||
| School | Campuses | Enrollment | D1 | D2 | D3 | JUCO |
| Lincoln University | 2 | 2241 | 1 | |||
| The Pennsylvania State University | 25 | 89816 | 1 | 5 | 14 | |
| University of Pittsburgh | 5 | 29533 | 1 | 1 | 2 | |
| Temple University | 5 | 37365 | 1 | |||
37 | 158955 | 3 | 2 | 7 | 14 | |
| Total: | 55 | 257543 | 3 | 16 | 7 | 14 |
NCAA commissioner Charlie Baker wrote a letter last month proposing a new division I subdivision for schools with the most resources. Inside Higher Ed reports 40 to 60 schools would join the new subdivison.
Joining the new subdivision would come at high cost. For example, to comply with title IX, Charlie would require a school to spend at least $30,000 per year for at least half of the school's student athletes. At Rutgers with approximately 750 student-athletes, that would be an added annual expense of at least $11 million.
In addition, forming a new subdivision would force conference realignment at the power conference level. When this new subdivision takes shape, deciding whether to join will be an excruciating decision for Rutgers.
My solution is they should pull all funding for Commonwealth System of Higher Education (state-related) schools. Pitt, Penn State and Temple can all survive being private schools. The only one at risk would be Lincoln but I would give them option to become a full state school or try to survive as a private school. I would then use that money to make a truly affordable public option in PA.
I think that'd be really unpopular as you'd basically be yanking the opportunity to go to a nationally recognized school away from middle class folks versus the other 49 states offering said opportunity.
OK, but again, aside from all the finger pointing, what is YOUR position on what Rutgers should do?
There is none.
Other than "the one sport making money? Its their responsibility. They should take the money they earn and spend that money on other sports they don't make any money."
I'm surprised they didn't say "PSU had to close/consolidate campuses that had no attendance? Theu should just cut James Franklin's salary and put that money towards those campuses. That'll solve it."
My position:
Holloway and Hobbs, and their successors, should hang tight through the term of the B1G media deal. This agreement, which has not been made public, ends in 2029-2030 according to media reports.
Over the next several years, visibility on the following critical factors will come into focus:
1) The revenue provided by the media deal
2) Conference realignment, conference stability, and the emergence of a new division 1 subdivision
3) Greg's build (contract expires in 2030)
4) Pike's build (contract expires in 2031)
5) Facilities fundraising momentum
Then, with a clearer view of where Rutgers stands, take a difficult decision. Either Rutgers decides to double down on big time athletics, or decides the end of the road has been reached and refocuses Rutgers athletics towards an education-focused, student participation mission.
Well, I see Rutgers has a $125 million dollar budget deficit that Holloway has to address over the next three years. It’s his decision to cut departments expenses. He might cut some of the others sports, a couple of department and majors and administration cost. I don’t think he cutting football or men basketball.
The $125 million deficit was the 2023 fiscal year budget. The big jump compared to 2022 was a $206 million in salaries and benefits in 2023, relative to 2022.
The 2024 fiscal year budget forecasts a smaller deficit, $90 million. Salaries and fringe benefits continue to rise, but 2024 is helped by a $131 million, or 13%, increase in state aid. The state, not Rutgers, pays the majority of Rutgers employees fringe benefits.
These figures include the three campuses, New Brunswick, Camden, and Newark. Holloway is responsible for all of them. Camden and Newark are running larger deficits than New Brunswick because Camden and Newark are suffering nosediving enrollment, while New Brunswick's enrollment is stable.
Expense reductions should focus on Camden and Newark. At Camden and Newark, salaries, wages, and fringe benefits are budget to rise 8.3% and 10.3%, respectively, in 2024, despite fewer students to teach. Meanwhile, the figure at New Brunswick is 7.8%.
I saw that Penn State will be spending about $700 million on Beaver Stadium renovations, a facility that will be used for the most part 7 times a year. ROI.
As stated before, I have no problem with Pitt playing at Acrisure stadium for 7 games per year and investing limited financial resources into facilities which will have a good ROI.
Previous posts referring to Penn State and the economics of maintaining 20 Branch Campuses due to decreased enrollment will be an ongoing problem.
Penn State is proposing the PA legislature increase funding for Penn State by 52% for the 2024-2025 budget year beginning in July 2024. I would imagine Pitt and Temple seeking similar 52% funding increases LOL.
Out of control spending for Sports Facilities coupled with University funding issues does not lead to good PR for PA taxpayers.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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The fiscal 2023 losses were actually $54 million based on generated income (99m) when you take away state aid, school subsidies and student fees, which the NCAA does not count as generated income. There is also the fact that about $7 million in 2023 debt service to repay $84 million in university loans was wiped out of financial documents.
Also, you can’t just do away any with non revenue sports because the Big Ten requires each schook to have a minimum number.
Hobbs recognizes that athletics needs more revenue from ticket sales and donations toward operating costs. Next year‘s football and basketball teams will hopefully generate some excitement and help close the shortfalls. Hobbs also believes premium seating will help.
The university president said that he doesn’t mind athletics running deficits. But I don’t think anyone should be satisfied that Rutgers has by far the worst deficits in the Big Ten.
Until its identified where the "deficits" are actually coming from, not really sure how anyone could have an opinion either way on the amount of "deficit".
If the deficits are because we spend the most on non-revenue sports - that's seems like it could be a worthwhile endeavor to benefit student athletes when considering the % of the overall university budget.
Pennsylvania is not going to cut out funding for their State Related Universities and force them to go private.
What is more likely to happen is that Pennsylvania will continue to give modest funding increases for the State Related Universities. This will put more of a financial strain on Penn State trying to keep open all their 24 Branch Campuses with dwindling enrollment at the Branches. Something has to give.
The State Related Universities are actually a great benefit to Pennsylvania by bringing in significant outside Research Funding which result in job creation in Pennsylvania. Pitt brings in over $1.0 Billion per year in outside funded research.
I referenced Penn State will be spending $700 million on Beaver Stadium renovations.
I stated previously that Pitt would rather put money into Research Related enterprises and only invest money into Sports Facilities only when required. That is the reason Pitt continues to play at Acrisure Stadium rather than spending $700 million or more on a new stadium on the Oakland Campus.
Just a reminder, the Pittsburgh Sports and Exhibition Authority(PSEA) own Acrisure Stadium, PNC Park, PPG Paints Arena and the Pittsburgh Convention Center. Actually, the Steelers, Pirates, Penguins and Pitt all rent their facilities. Additionally, the Steelers rent their practice facility from Pitt's practice facility.
By the way Dan Rooney just got approval from the Pittsburgh Stadium Authority to submit a Bid to the NFL to host the 2025 or 2026 NFL Draft. Would be great to have this event in Pittsburgh.
Pitt's strategy of continuing to invest in research projects has helped it to be recognized as a primer Global University. Even though Penn State is 3 times Pitt's student body size Pitt has research capability equal to or greater than Penn State.
In fact, US News ranking of Global Universities for 2023 has Pitt ranked #45 and Penn State ranked #84.
Spending $700 million for a stadium revamp which is used 7 times a year is not a great ROI.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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I'm enjoying this thread a lot. I also appreciate Koko continuing to offer up this info despite it being a tough topic for sports fans to swallow.
This is how the world should be - differing viewpoints being discussed in a civil manner with data/facts involved.
This is how the world should be - differing viewpoints being discussed in a civil manner with data/facts involved.
Thank you Panther and Rhuarc.
On research spending, here are more details on B1G schools, plus Pittsburgh.
Conference rank 2022 , University, National Rank 2013-2022 Average, National Rank 2022
1 Michigan 2 4
2 Washington 4 5
3 Wisconsin 7 8
4 Maryland 7 19
5 UCLA 9 6
6 Minnesota 17 20
7 Penn State 22 27
8 Ohio State 20 11
9 USC 27 27
10 Northwestern 29 29
11 Illinois 34 39
12 Michigan State 36 40
13 Rutgers 37 46
14 Purdue 38 41
15 Iowa 50 52
16 Indiana 54 42
17 Nebraska 81 87
18 Oregon 152 146
NA Pittsburgh 16 16
Source: National Science Foundation https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=rankingBySource&ds=herd
Note: Data presented for flagship campuses, for example Rutgers-New Brunswick and Penn State-University Park; data for other campuses such as Rutgers-Newark available in source file
Edit: Added Penn State and Oregon, Penn State and Oregon were omitted from original post
On research spending, here are more details on B1G schools, plus Pittsburgh.
Conference rank 2022 , University, National Rank 2013-2022 Average, National Rank 2022
1 Michigan 2 4
2 Washington 4 5
3 Wisconsin 7 8
4 Maryland 7 19
5 UCLA 9 6
6 Minnesota 17 20
7 Penn State 22 27
8 Ohio State 20 11
9 USC 27 27
10 Northwestern 29 29
11 Illinois 34 39
12 Michigan State 36 40
13 Rutgers 37 46
14 Purdue 38 41
15 Iowa 50 52
16 Indiana 54 42
17 Nebraska 81 87
18 Oregon 152 146
NA Pittsburgh 16 16
Source: National Science Foundation https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=rankingBySource&ds=herd
Note: Data presented for flagship campuses, for example Rutgers-New Brunswick and Penn State-University Park; data for other campuses such as Rutgers-Newark available in source file
Edit: Added Penn State and Oregon, Penn State and Oregon were omitted from original post
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I know they won't pull that funding to the state related universities but I wish they would. Penn State is likely to close some branch campuses because it simply an outdated model. Trends nationally have been seeing those who in the past would have attended a branch campus are now attending schools online. Twenty years ago when all these schools were building these branch campuses that was not an option.
You continue to muddy waters by combing unrelated things. Research and Athletics are two separate budgets with funding. Pitt not building a stadium has nothing to do with research funding no matter how many times you try to say it. The vast majority of that $1 billion are grants and it would be illegal to use that money to build a stadium even if they wanted. Do you think that the $675 million in research grants from NIH can be redirected to build sports facilities? Do you think the other grants that pay for those could be used for stadiums. I hope you are not that dumb to believe it could be.
You love to talk about the $700 million to be spent on beaver stadium but completely ignore the $240 million Pitt is spending to build a volleyball and wrestling arena. Yes that stadium is only used 7 days a year but sells $45 million a year in ticket sales and a team that produces $107 million a year. Meanwhile Pitt Volleyball and wrestling brought in about $150k in ticket sales and have a combined revenue of under $2 million. If Pitt was so noble about research why are they spending so much on Volleyball and wrestling. Why do they let the athletics department lose $8.7 million a year. Penn State athletics is self sustaining including funding for stadium project. If you are really worried about wasted money worry about the $8.7 million take from Pitt's general fund and spent on things like Volleyball arenas.
Attempting to have civil discourse in a respectful conversation.
As I stated previously, Pitt for all practical purposes has shut down the Titusville Campus (only 23 Pitt nursing students) while renting parts of the Campus to the local community for a broad range of outside learning (not Pitt) programs. Since Pitt only had 4 Branch Campuses they essentially closed down 25% of their Branch Campuses.
Since Penn State (according to your chart) has 24 Branch Campuses, how many do you anticipate they will have to close in the future as the cost of keeping all open will continue to increase due to reduced enrollment.
In some respects the Penn State Branch Campuses compete with the Pa State School System of Schools for students.
I realize Research and Sports income are 2 different subjects. The point I was trying to make is that Sports income can bring in only 8 cents on a dollar compared to research income. Return on investment (Pitt) is significantly better by investing limited university resources as much as possible in Research Facilities.
You as well as others on this board look at the fact that Pitt plays/rents at Acrisure Stadium as a negative.
However, I look at it as a positive in that Pitt funds do not have to be spent on a new stadium or incur the cost associated with renovations (PSU $700 million). Playing in an NFL Stadium with all the comforts associated with Club Seats makes for an enjoyable experience. Additionally, all of the new Bars, Restaurants, Casino, Hotels on the North Side are great for pre and post game fun (Used 7 times a year). I realize Penn State must have their own football stadium because the NFL will not have a team in State College requiring an NFL Stadium.
Pitt had to build the Volleyball and Wresling Arena because the PSEA would not build us one to Rent LOL.
I realize Penn State can have 100,000 fans attend a game at State College whereas Pitt may have only 50,000 fans attend a game at Acrisure. Remember Penn State has a student body 3 times as large as Pitt (90,000 vs 30,000) more students and alums for attending a sporting event.
I agree Pennsylvania has to financially support maybe an over supply of State/State Related Schools and funding increases will be limited/modest. Again the process of consolidation has only begun Penn West (3 state schools into one) and Penn East (3 state schools into one). Program and curriculum changes are just starting to occur and will continue as they attempt to control costs because of reduced enrollment at each school.
Penn State is asking the state for a 52% funding increase for fiscal year 2024/2025 starting in July. Unlikely, as Pitt, Temple and Lincoln will also be requesting funding increases along those lines. State may give a 5% increase if were lucky.
Pitt has been fortunate that their administrators had the foresight to direct funding into Projects (Research Related) that can bring in over $1.0 Billion in annual research (not sports funding). Additionally, Pitt has been fortunate for a smaller sized school to have the support of local industry/friends and students that have contributed to Pitt's $5.5 Billion dollar endowment (again not sports funding).
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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Thank you for pointing out.
Penn State and Oregon were not in the original chart. I edited the chart and noted the change.
Thank you again for letting me know.
Rutgers fans it is being reported that Pitt may be losing our WR coach T. Underwood (Rutgers WR) will be leaving Pitt to go to the New England Patriots. Sorry to see him go but good opportunity for him.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Underwood is more than likely going to be working under Troy Brown the Pats WR coach as an assistant receivers coach.
Looks like a step down, but might be just to get a foot in the door to coach in the NFL.
I've seen coordinators leave college programs for position coaching jobs in the NFL, so this move might just be so he can leave the college game and start an NFL coaching career
Another look at B1G Universities from the perspective of their Ranking in US News Best Global Universities 2024:
1 Washington #6
2 UCLA #14
3 Michigan #19
4 Northwestern #24
5 Ohio State #55
6 Maryland #57
6 Minnesota #57
8 Wisconsin #63
9 Illinois #74
10 USC #80
11 Penn State #84
12 Michigan State #116
13 Purdue #140
14 Rutgers #143
15 Indiana #152
16 Iowa #180
17 Oregon #253
18 Nebraska #409
NA Pittsburgh #45
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
2024 Best National Universities | US News Rankings
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-pittsburgh-3379/overall-rankings
Rutgers University--New Brunswick (#40)
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
University of Pittsburgh Overall Rankings | US News Best Colleges (67)
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-pittsburgh-3379/overall-rankingsYes that publication ranks the schools undergraduate programs using a different evaluation criteria.
The US News Global University rankings use a different ranking criteria based upon the schools Graduate Programs, Research Capability etc. On that basis they compare how the US Schools compare with other Global Universities.
Example,
Carnegie Mellon Is an Outstanding University and Ranked very High on that US News National University Ranking.
However, Carnegie Mellon University using the criteria of US News Global Rankings is ranked #118. Many of the B1G schools are ranked higher than them because of the level of research they conduct.
Apples and Oranges comparison between the two different US News Rankings.
Both US News rankings for the most part are accurate based upon the criteria used for the ranking.
Koko listed B1G school rankings based on research output and I was replying to him on B1G school Global Rankings which are heavily based on research capability.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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