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OT: Flying United tonight - haven't been dragged off the plane...

Funny thing is I'm flying United tonight, to Milan for work and didn't even know about it until I got on-line on the plane. Nobody dragged off the plane, as far as I could tell, but I wish somebody had dragged the food off the plane and replaced it with edible food.

Visiting 5 of our manufacturing vendors in the Milan area this week and then northern France next week in a bit of a whirlwind tour over the next 9-10 days. Fortunately, I have 3-4 days in the middle, over Easter weekend, where I get to drive around Europe, in a rental Mercedes, seeing at least a little of Italy, Switzerland, Germany (first trip on the Autobahn), Belgium and the Netherlands, staying in Venice, Basel, Cologne and Amsterdam.

Have spent a lot of time in Ireland, UK, France, Spain and Portugal, but never been to any of these countries. Hope I don't get too many tickets and need to get back someday with the wife (and maybe our son, although he's not much on traveling, oddly) when we have more time to enjoy it. I think that's what retirement is for, lol.
 
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We sat on a United plane that was sent to a shorter runway in Costa Rica. So it was overweight. And just like in this story they started by saying the plane needed about 10 passengers to get off and they would make it worth their while. And just like this situation , next flight out of CR was 24 hours later. Well, they started with about offerring $400 and a free round trip and hotel overnight. . Nobody volunteered. Over the course of the next 2 hours they kept upping the offer by about $200 every 30 minutes. It took 2 hours but they finally got enough people off and we got out of there.
If only those cheap MF'ers' would have started with about $1000 per person, free hotel and food and maybe a RT they could have saved a lot of time and aggravation in both instances.
 
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T2Kplus10 said:
That one was just for you!
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lol, funny thing is I actually checked the first page of the football board and didn't see a thread, but didn't think to check the CE board, as that's really not the place for apolitical OT posts anyway. Although it's easy to make the most innocuous thread political these days...
 
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how do you decide to let folks board and then make them get off. Isn't SOP to get this all settle before everyone is on the plane?

Stupid a$$es.
 
Abro1975 said:
We sat on a United plane that was sent to a shorter runway in Costa Rica. So it was overweight. And just like in this story they started by saying the plane needed about 10 passengers to get off and they would make it worth their while. And just like this situation , next flight out of CR was 24 hours later. Well, they started with about offerring $400 and a free round trip and hotel overnight. . Nobody volunteered. Over the course of the next 2 hours they kept upping the offer by about $200 every 30 minutes. It took 2 hours but they finally got enough people off and we got out of there.
If only those cheap MF'ers' would have started with about $1000 per person, free hotel and food and maybe a RT they could have saved a lot of time and aggravation in both instances.
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Did they have to pay extra for the bolded part? Made me think of the classic "dick jerk algorithm" scene from Silicon Valley, my favorite show on TV.

 
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1984 said:
how do you decide to let folks board and then make them get off. Isn't SOP to get this all settle before everyone is on the plane?

Stupid a$$es.
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According to an article I read elsewhere, the 4 flight crew were coming in late from a connection and they weren't sure if they would make the flight.

I get that there is a scenario where everyone present acted with the best of intentions and they were left with the uncomfortable situation for everyone. However a better company than United would have calculated the cost of having to cancel the flight to which those four crew members were headed, and offered amounts proportional to that bottom line value. Instead they try to get the best of all worlds for themselves; overbook the flight, pay a minimal amount to force compliance, and put all of the misery on the customers that were innocent in the arrangement. It's a classic case of unequal bargaining partners, and it's high time that United and other air carriers start bringing some decency back to their industry.
 
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Booking a paying customer for a flight; allowing the customer board and take a seat on the plane; announcing on-board the plane that 4 of the already seated customers must depart to allow 4 United employees a free flight; offering a measly $800 to passengers who volunteer when the law mandates $1,350; choosing not to raise the offer above $800 when none of the paying passengers volunteers; randomly picking 4 passengers to have to get out of their seats and leave the plane; disregarding the pleas of one of those passengers who indicated he is a Doctor who must get back to treat patients; calling in the Chicago PD to forcibly remove and drag the bloodied passenger off the plane, a passenger by the way who is man of slight stature who happens to be in his late 60's; releasing a half-hearted, tone-deaf, statement to the public in response to the incident.

Yes, that's wonderful Customer Service.. Textbook actually.

Well done United. You could not have handled that any better.
 
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RUseaweed said:
According to an article I read elsewhere, the 4 flight crew were coming in late from a connection and they weren't sure if they would make the flight.

I get that there is a scenario where everyone present acted with the best of intentions and they were left with the uncomfortable situation for everyone. However a better company than United would have calculated the cost of having to cancel the flight to which those four crew members were headed, and offered amounts proportional to that bottom line value. Instead they try to get the best of all worlds for themselves; overbook the flight, pay a minimal amount to force compliance, and put all of the misery on the customers that were innocent in the arrangement. It's a classic case of unequal bargaining partners, and it's high time that United and other air carriers start bringing some decency back to their industry.
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Or a good company would have simply payed $1000 to an limo company to drive the flight crew to the next city that was only a 4,5 hour drive instead of forcing paying customers of the plane.

If I was in charge it would be an FAA requirement that any bumped customer recieve 10 x what they paid for the flight in cash or check (customers choice), guaranteed seats on next flight between the two cities, paid hotel accommodations, and $30 per meal between the two flights. This would include flights cancelled due to airline issues like mechanical, not enough seats sold or staffing issues etc.
 
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RJM_Go_RU said:
Booking a paying customer for a flight; allowing the customer board and take a seat on the plane; announcing on-board the plane that 4 of the already seated customers must depart to allow 4 United employees a free flight; offering a measly $800 to passengers who volunteer when the law mandates $1,400; choosing not to raise the offer above $800 when none of the paying passengers volunteers; randomly picking 4 passengers to have to get out of their seats and leave the plane; disregarding the pleas of one of those passengers who indicated he is a Doctor who must get back to treat patients; calling the Chicago PD in to forcibly remove and drag the bloodied passenger off the plane, a passenger by the way who is man of slight stature who happens to be in his late 60's; releasing a half-hearted, tone-deaf, statement to the public in response to the incident.

Yes, that's wonderful Customer Service.. Textbook actually.

Well done United. You could not have handled that any better.
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The max you can get is $1350

  • If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
  • If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
  • If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
 
Very bad press for United.

They shouldn't be allowed to bump passengers AFTER they are seated on the plane. Plus, they should keep upping the ante until volunteers are obtained. If not, limo the employees to that 4.5 hour drive destination. Dragging someone off the plane is inexcusable, and will cost them tens of thousands of dollars in bad publicity. Penny-wise, pound foolish.

Wonder how those 4 employees felt after they were seated.....
 
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United is wrong for overbooking.

But I am not sold on dragging someone off the plane. They own the plane, if they ask you to get off the plane, you get off the damn plane. Sitting their, refusing to leave, is just ridiculous. I dont care what they wanted it for...if they want you out, you leave. If a stewardess tells me "sir, you have to leave" I would leave 10 times out of 10. Its game over...they have full control.

Once a cop comes on board and says you are leaving, and you basically say "F you" and grab on to the seat it isn't going to end well. Now it becomes an authority thing. There is a 0% chance they are going to let you stay on the pane at that point. You are leaving....its just a matter of how difficult it is.

We have gotten to a weird place as society. Sometimes life is unfair. Your option is to sue United to recover. Your option is not to disobey the authorities. Guy seemed like an insane person, who got what he had coming to him.
 
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Ole Cabbagehead said:
United is wrong for overbooking.

But I am not sold on dragging someone off the plane. They own the plane, if they ask you to get off the plane, you get off the damn plane. Sitting their, refusing to leave, is just ridiculous. I dont care what they wanted it for...if they want you out, you leave. If a stewardess tells me "sir, you have to leave" I would leave 10 times out of 10. Its game over...they have full control.

Once a cop comes on board and says you are leaving, and you basically say "F you" and grab on to the seat it isn't going to end well. Now it becomes an authority thing. There is a 0% chance they are going to let you stay on the pane at that point. You are leaving....its just a matter of how difficult it is.

We have gotten to a weird place as society. Sometimes life is unfair. Your option is to sue United to recover. Your option is not to disobey the authorities. Guy seemed like an insane person, who got what he had coming to him.
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Cabbage is right. At dinner my middle school teachers response was she was sick of people where the rules not for you? GTFO of the plane.
 
"Airline customer service" is an oxymoron as far as I am concerned. The survival of certain industries depends on how the businesses treat their customers. But the airlines just don't bother. They have no absolutley no regard for the customer experience aspect of their business. They don't have to care, so they don't. Exhibit number one would be the distance between seats. Exhibit number two would br all the ancillary fees for baggage etc. Exhibit number three would be employee attitude. I think we will see more of this type of incident. Passengers are stessed by the conditions on the aircraft and airline employees are as well. Makes for an increasingly volatile environment.
 
United stock can lose $500 million today. The CEO Munoz has to change his tune immediately and put out a new statement. He has to say that this will never happen again on a United flight and we are truly sorry on how this situation was handled. If he doesn't he has to go... I am embarrassed to use my Mileage plus card in public right now. My PR people in my company are also embarrassed on how this was handled. It shows badly for PR departments in general.
 
I never realized how good Continental Airlines was until United took it over and ruined it. I hate that United has such a monopoly out of EWR. Their customer service reflects that fact and is the worst. There are not many alternatives to so many of United's routes if you fly out of Newark, so they continue abuse a captive audience with little repercussions. In a word, they SUCK!
 
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When my parents were still in NJ, I used to fly United LAX to EWR and back twice a year for 8 years. Now, that they are here in LA county, I have not been to NJ and have not flown United. (Last trip to NJ was the Michigan game where Kemoko had the game winning blocked field goal.) They delayed my flight for 5 hours once and the excuse was just piss poor. A weather delay? It was a clear day in EWR and they told us that they are using a plane that was being routed from Louisville (irony). According to my iphone, the weather was clear there as well. In addition, they did not have preboarding when I was traveling with my 2 year old and 6 month old. The people in line were shaking their heads and the guy at the gate just told me very condescendingly, "you will board with your group. After yesterday, my decision is even more firm.
 
As a frequent flyer of United, I would be more sympathetic if they were more sympathetic to the passengers. My big grip is that if I can catch an earlier flight and there are plenty of seats I should be able to take that flight at no additional cost. But instead they want to charge you a change fee, its always about extracting additional dollars for what amounts to the same service.
 
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RU1977 said:
Got what he had coming to him?
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Yeah. If you sit in a seat, and a cop tells you you need to get off this plane, your right is to sue everyone involved. Your right is not to disobey the authorities. If you tell the cop, I am not leaving, its going to get physical. Anyone with a brain their head knows this.

Now, all that is not to say that civil disobedience doesn't have a place in an unjust society. And if this was the fight this guy wanted, well, he got it. He got exactly what he bargained for.

I just cannot have sympathy here. It only got physical because he refused to leave after being told he had to leave multiple times. He escalated it, not the airline. What rule do we want? Do we want to live in a world where because someone buys a ticket, the owner is not free to tell them to leave? Where he can hold the owner of the plane hostage, and force them to take him where he wants to go? Nothing else in our society works like that.

A ticket in the US is a revocable license....its not ownership. If you pay me to drive you to the airport, should I not have the right to throw you out of my car? You can sue me to get your money back, and probably even damages if my conduct harmed you in some other way. But should you be able to forcibly resist, and force me to drive you? That is what this guy was doing. That is just not how our legal system is set up, nor should it be.

United are assholes, but they are right.
 
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I guess I'm in the minority here because I've never had a problem flying United. In fact they've gone out of there way numerous times to accomdate me when flight dates and times needed to be changed. There was one instance where I had a connecting flight come in late and they actually moved the plane to a closer gate (I was the last passenger to board) so I didn't have to run across the entire airport. There was someone from the airline waiting for me to let me know they'd switched the gate when I got off.
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
Yeah. If you sit in a seat, and a cop tells you you need to get off this plane, your right is to sue everyone involved. Your right is not to disobey the authorities. If you tell the cop, I am not leaving, its going to get physical. Anyone with a brain their head knows this.

Now, all that is not to say that civil disobedience doesn't have a place in an unjust society. And if this was the fight this guy wanted, well, he got it. He got exactly what he bargained for.

I just cannot have sympathy here. It only got physical because he refused to leave after being told he had to leave multiple times. He escalated it, not the airline. What rule do we want? Do we want to live in a world where because someone buys a ticket, the owner is not free to tell them to leave? Where he can hold the owner of the plane hostage, and force them to take him where he wants to go? Nothing else in our society works like that.

A ticket in the US is a revocable license....its not ownership. If you pay me to drive you to the airport, should I not have the right to throw you out of my car? You can sue me to get your money back, and probably even damages if my conduct harmed you in some other way. But should you be able to forcibly resist, and force me to drive you? That is what this guy was doing. That is just not how our legal system is set up, nor should it be.

United are assholes, but they are right.
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If this was your wife, would you also have no sympathy?
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
Yeah. If you sit in a seat, and a cop tells you you need to get off this plane, your right is to sue everyone involved. Your right is not to disobey the authorities. If you tell the cop, I am not leaving, its going to get physical. Anyone with a brain their head knows this.

Now, all that is not to say that civil disobedience doesn't have a place in an unjust society. And if this was the fight this guy wanted, well, he got it. He got exactly what he bargained for.

I just cannot have sympathy here. It only got physical because he refused to leave after being told he had to leave multiple times. He escalated it, not the airline. What rule do we want? Do we want to live in a world where because someone buys a ticket, the owner is not free to tell them to leave? Where he can hold the owner of the plane hostage, and force them to take him where he wants to go? Nothing else in our society works like that.

A ticket in the US is a revocable license....its not ownership. If you pay me to drive you to the airport, should I not have the right to throw you out of my car? You can sue me to get your money back, and probably even damages if my conduct harmed you in some other way. But should you be able to forcibly resist, and force me to drive you? That is what this guy was doing. That is just not how our legal system is set up, nor should it be.

United are assholes, but they are right.
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The guy absolutely was in the wrong for not following the instructions of a police officer.

However, this is very rare case where I am glad that he disobeyed. If he had left of his own volition, that day would have just been a footnote in the long and torrid history of how United treats customers. Instead he made it an issue, and now they are going to be forced to re-look at their overbooking policies. Imagine if you were in his shoes - except you follow instructions and get off. You're stranded in Chicago for a full day with an $800 travel voucher for a future flight. Not even the full $1300 that you're owed, but you probably don't know that. How is this fair? How can United justify arbitrarily ruining a paying customer's week?

The answer is their loyalty lies with their shareholders. As with all good companies, they need to make money. However they are getting greedy by overbooking and not having proper compensation procedures for their customers. Corporately they would rather eat a small cost and reap the benefits of overbooking than properly accommodate those who are being inconvenienced through absolutely no fault of their own. Let's hope they get the message and adjust their practices.
 
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United may have been right in regard that they do have fine print on their tickets stating this but they were wrong on every conceivable level known to man.
And let's be clear, he was not bumped due to overbooking. He was bumped for United employees. And I believe he was flying with his wife. So, they were separating a couple on a flight. Anyone who is saying they would just get up and leave their seat, then WTF did you not take the $800 in the first place. Some people like to talk shit when it isn't happening to them.
Imagine under your guys point, you fly in for a Rutgers Michigan game/weekend. You sit down in your seat at HPSS, causing no problems and ready to enjoy a game you planned the last 6 months. And Rutgers security comes over and tells you that you have been randomly selected to be removed from your seat so that a Rutgers professor could sit there.
You would go the F out of your mind. So, stop with the BS
 
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Can't compare this to an Uber drivi
Ole Cabbagehead said:
Yeah. If you sit in a seat, and a cop tells you you need to get off this plane, your right is to sue everyone involved. Your right is not to disobey the authorities. If you tell the cop, I am not leaving, its going to get physical. Anyone with a brain their head knows this.

Now, all that is not to say that civil disobedience doesn't have a place in an unjust society. And if this was the fight this guy wanted, well, he got it. He got exactly what he bargained for.

I just cannot have sympathy here. It only got physical because he refused to leave after being told he had to leave multiple times. He escalated it, not the airline. What rule do we want? Do we want to live in a world where because someone buys a ticket, the owner is not free to tell them to leave? Where he can hold the owner of the plane hostage, and force them to take him where he wants to go? Nothing else in our society works like that.

A ticket in the US is a revocable license....its not ownership. If you pay me to drive you to the airport, should I not have the right to throw you out of my car? You can sue me to get your money back, and probably even damages if my conduct harmed you in some other way. But should you be able to forcibly resist, and force me to drive you? That is what this guy was doing. That is just not how our legal system is set up, nor should it be.

United are assholes, but they are right.
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Can't really compare to throwing someone out of you car if you are driving them to the airport. Why did you throw them out? Because you saw a cute gal on the side of the road you wanted to pick up? Or because they were abusive? Before he was told he had to leave the plane, he did nothing wrong.
 
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anvilofstars said:
If this was your wife, would you also have no sympathy?
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If my wife was belligerent and refused to do as told by the police? I cannot imagine ever being in this situation.

Underlying all of this, for me, is that you know the deal when you book a flight. If you read the fine print, you agree to all of this. IThey have the right to remove you from the aircraft, and to bump you to another fight, and there is a set compensation model in place if they do that to you.

If you do not agree to those terms, you are free to not book the flight. Of course, those terms suck, and you don't really have a choice, but it is what it is. Ever sign a lease for an apartment or office space? Same deal. You agree to a whole lot of stuff you don't like and hope it never comes to that. Why do you agree? Because the other side says thats the deal, take it or leave it. And you take it, because you want to apartment, or you want to take the flight.

I have a big problem with people addressing the shitty deal they made with the airline by disrupting everyone else, forcing the cops and security into a violent situation, and generally causing a problem. Maybe good will come from this, and frankly, I hope this does get the airlines to change their policies (or perhaps compel Congress to change the rules), but that doesn't make it right.
 
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RU1977 said:
Can't compare this to an Uber drivi



Can't really compare to throwing someone out of you car if you are driving them to the airport. Why did you throw them out? Because you saw a cute gal on the side of the road you wanted to pick up? Or because they were abusive? Before he was told he had to leave the plane, he did nothing wrong.
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I threw them out because its my car, and I changed my mind. I am backing out of the deal. That is wrong, we all agree. But our laws don't say you get to sit in my car, against my wishes, and I have to honor our deal and drive you. Our laws say that you have to leave my car, and you can sue me for compensation (damages) based on whatever happens to you (i.e. substitute ride cost more, you missed you flight and had to buy another ticket, etc.)

If you can force me to drive you, that is called "Specific performance" and our laws say you don't get that, unless we agree to it in advance. Not only does United not agree to specific performance (compelled performance), they expressly reserved the right to revoke the ticket in their discretion, with the requirement that they pay a fixed amount as damages for the inconvenience.
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
Guy seemed like an insane person, who got what he had coming to him.
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Yes - all the zany screaming and passenger commotions aside my first impression was the guy was probably just an a-hole. You need a gladiator net and trident to work with the public these days.

Now it turns out the "doctor" is a sketcher


Ky. doctor pulled from United Airlines flight previously convicted of drug crimes, stripped of medical license

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ously-convicted-drug-crimes-article-1.3043210
 
Well from a purely PR perspective United could have handled it a lot better. Instead of dragging the guy off like that, you simply tell him he will be arrested at the next airport after he leaves the plane. And you move onto the next passenger on the list.
And if he refuses to leave the plane at the next stop you can drag his rear off after everyone has left the plane.

BUT it should never have come to s there are plenty of other options.
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
I threw them out because its my car, and I changed my mind. I am backing out of the deal. That is wrong, we all agree. But our laws don't say you get to sit in my car, against my wishes, and I have to honor our deal and drive you. Our laws say that you have to leave my car, and you can sue me for compensation (damages) based on whatever happens to you (i.e. substitute ride cost more, you missed you flight and had to buy another ticket, etc.)

If you can force me to drive you, that is called "Specific performance" and our laws say you don't get that, unless we agree to it in advance. Not only does United not agree to specific performance (compelled performance), they expressly reserved the right to revoke the ticket in their discretion, with the requirement that they pay a fixed amount as damages for the inconvenience.
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Yet, if you jump in a cab and ask to be brought to the airport and part way there, driver sees an easier fare, you would be ok that he tells you to get out?
 
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newell138 said:
I wish i was that guy that was dragged off the plane. I'm pretty sure I would have an attorney on the phone right now negotiating a lifetime of free air travel for me and my family. At worst.
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Yep, he is going to do much better than $800 and a RT ticket. lol
 
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Abro1975 said:
We sat on a United plane that was sent to a shorter runway in Costa Rica. So it was overweight. And just like in this story they started by saying the plane needed about 10 passengers to get off and they would make it worth their while. And just like this situation , next flight out of CR was 24 hours later. Well, they started with about offerring $400 and a free round trip and hotel overnight. . Nobody volunteered. Over the course of the next 2 hours they kept upping the offer by about $200 every 30 minutes. It took 2 hours but they finally got enough people off and we got out of there.
If only those cheap MF'ers' would have started with about $1000 per person, free hotel and food and maybe a RT they could have saved a lot of time and aggravation in both instances.
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frankly, they should have offered whatever it took. the hit to their reputation is in the millions.
 
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