OT: Graham Spanier (former PSU President) loses criminal appeal

[Knight Shift]

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...resident-graham-spanier-loses-criminal-appeal

No honor--no success.

A Superior Court majority rejected Spanier's claims that too much time had passed to charge him, he was not legally obligated to care for the boy, and should not have been charged because he did not supervise children directly.

"To hold that (he) was not supervising a child's welfare when he oversaw PSU's response to the Sandusky allegations, or to hold that he owed no duty of care in his exercise of that supervisory authority, would plainly not effectuate the purpose of sheltering children from harm," wrote Judge Victor Stabile, joined by one other jurist in the 2-1 decision.

Spanier's lawyers said he is deeply disappointed and "plans to pursue his appellate options" in hopes of vindication.

The scandal has cost the university more than a quarter-billion dollars, including payouts to people who say Sandusky abused them as boys.

NOTE- unbelievable that this was like a paper cut to PSU's athletics. Cults are gonna cult.

RU on the other hand, wilts like a hothouse flower at the first sign of trouble.

 

[AshHeap]

Note that this disgusting human being was appealing a sentence of only two months in jail. As if it wasn't clear that Spanier and Penn State as a whole don't care about children, this is more evidence.

 

[JCKnight]

Note that this disgusting human being was appealing a sentence of only two months in jail. As if it wasn't clear that Spanier and Penn State as a whole don't care about children, this is more evidence.

Im not defending anyone but how does one appealing any form of prison sentence implicate the university in not caring about children? The parallels you have drawn are quite unusual

 

[AshHeap]

Im not defending anyone but how does one appealing any form of prison sentence implicate the university in not caring about children? The parallels you have drawn are quite unusual

Because thousands of Penn State alumni and officials have been blindly defending everyone involved not named Sandusky from day one. Not to mention the football program being able to weasel out of the sanctions. And appealing an incredibly lenient prison sentence is an insult to the children who were abused. Be a man, apologize and do your time.

 

[JCKnight]

Because thousands of Penn State alumni and officials have been blindly defending everyone involved not named Sandusky from day one. Not to mention the football program being able to weasel out of the sanctions. And appealing an incredibly lenient prison sentence is an insult to the children who were abused. Be a man, apologize and do your time.

Are you sure your issue isn’t that the football program “weaseled” out of sanctions than anything...let’s be honest, we ALL have friends that are RU fans that are more upset that the scandal didn’t kill the football program so as to allow RU to rise higher than they are about the welfare of children...it’s a sad reality, and the way you just made your argument that you felt compelled to raise that point makes me think you are one of those...

Let’s also be honest that it was the NCAA who did a 180, at the consultation of its member institutions that decided its original punishment may have been either unwarranted at worst or without the proper procedural course at best...either way I don’t recall PSU campaigning for release from the punishment so much as the ncaa being blasted for their procedural mess

 

[AshHeap]

Are you sure your issue isn’t that the football program “weaseled” out of sanctions than anything...let’s be honest, we ALL have friends that are RU fans that are more upset that the scandal didn’t kill the football program so as to allow RU to rise higher than they are about the welfare of children...it’s a sad reality, and the way you just made your argument that you felt compelled to raise that point makes me think you are one of those...

No, I do not care about football more than children being sexually abused. Penn State's scandal is the worst not just in college football history, but in sports history. The "death penalty" would have been completely justified.

 

[ZMR512]

I'm firmly in the camp who believes that nothing short of a nuclear piece of evidence will change anyone's mind on how they feel about the various individuals involved directly and indirectly in the Sandusky scandal.

But given the deposition of the former Baylor AD that broke today, in which he says Pepper Hamilton offered to essentially design its report in a certain fashion, I'm curious to see if/when the Freeh Report receives another round of scrutiny. The relevant passage from the Waco Tribune-Herald story:

McCaw said Pepper Hamilton attorneys told him there would be three potential outcomes to their report: a “detailed document,” a “summary report,” or “to whitewash the whole thing.” He said it was ultimately decided that Baylor regent J. Cary Gray would write a “false” and “misleading finding of fact skewed to make the football program look bad and cover up the campus-wide failings.”

 

[JCKnight]

No, I do not care about football more than children being sexually abused. Penn State's scandal is the worst not just in college football history, but in sports history. The "death penalty" would have been completely justified.

I agree the scandal is about as bad as it can get...but I’ve never seen the connection to how the football program benefited from having an aging coach continue to pace the sidelines well beyond his useful life as a football coach because the criminal issues were missed by many levels of state and local government and law enforcement...the death penalty talk has always felt to me to be a product of football fans looking for their program to gain a competitive advantage...

 

[RUich]

I think this is all about when an institution puts the welfare of human beings under what should be a very secondary thing like athletics.
Much of Rutger's ineptitude in sports was due to the institution properly putting it as not nearly as important as its actual reason for being, education!
Pretty much any of the top athletic programs around the country were developed when they decided to put more emphasis on winning games than their primary role. I say this about the two most dominant sports for college, football and basketball.
Just looking at the salaries of the coaches vs. the academic staff tells you the school's priorities.
I firmly believe PSU did a risk analysis with the Sandusky case. The fact that they thought letting it go on over calling the cops is just impossible for many to comprehend.

 

[JCKnight]

I think this is all about when an institution puts the welfare of human beings under what should be a very secondary thing like athletics.
Much of Rutger's ineptitude in sports was due to the institution properly putting it as not nearly as important as its actual reason for being, education!
Pretty much any of the top athletic programs around the country were developed when they decided to put more emphasis on winning games than their primary role. I say this about the two most dominant sports for college, football and basketball.
Just looking at the salaries of the coaches vs. the academic staff tells you the school's priorities.
I firmly believe PSU did a risk analysis with the Sandusky case. The fact that they thought letting it go on over calling the cops is just impossible for many to comprehend.

So when RU diverts funding from the General Fund and other academic funding sources and loans in order to fund an athletic department, they are not placing sports above academics?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Ok, JCLoin we all get it.

Cult is gonna cult.

 

[JCKnight]

Ok, JCLoin we all get it.

Cult is gonna cult.

Why can’t some have a minority opinion without being labeled?

 

[WhiteBus]

Note that this disgusting human being was appealing a sentence of only two months in jail. As if it wasn't clear that Spanier and Penn State as a whole don't care about children, this is more evidence.

What does his appeal have do with Penn State. They aren't a part of his case.

 

[RU4Real]

So when RU diverts funding from the General Fund and other academic funding sources and loans in order to fund an athletic department, they are not placing sports above academics?

There's a difference between balancing the budget and criminal conspiracy.

 

[JCKnight]

There's a difference between balancing the budget and criminal conspiracy.

More than 50% of the RU athletics budget is from sources that are taking away from academic funds that other programs don’t reach into...all I’m saying is let’s not pretend we place academics completely over athletics

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Why can’t some have a minority opinion without being labeled?

ok, try again, only this time don't mention Rutgers. Maybe that will help people understand your point better.

 

[koleszar]

Are you sure your issue isn’t that the football program “weaseled” out of sanctions than anything...let’s be honest, we ALL have friends that are RU fans that are more upset that the scandal didn’t kill the football program so as to allow RU to rise higher than they are about the welfare of children...it’s a sad reality, and the way you just made your argument that you felt compelled to raise that point makes me think you are one of those...

Let’s also be honest that it was the NCAA who did a 180, at the consultation of its member institutions that decided its original punishment may have been either unwarranted at worst or without the proper procedural course at best...either way I don’t recall PSU campaigning for release from the punishment so much as the ncaa being blasted for their procedural mess

I look at it this way. If this tragedy took place at Rutgers, the school itself would have imposed heavier sanctions than the NCAA could have ever dreamed of. They did just this in the Flood drug monitoring debacle. They imposed sanctions far greater than those who were caught with similar level III infractions. Now on the flip side psu tried every twist and turn in the legal process to weasel out of the deserved sanctions.

So from a moral standpoint the place is a sleaze hole. They say they've changed, I say it was just public grandstanding to get the football machine back on track as soon as possible. Hell, the next year they held football camps and they failed to vet 10% of the counselors. Total camps, that was like 57 counselors. These guys are working with kids as young as 5. Coming off a tragedy of this scale wouldn't you make sure it was 100%? Which begs the question, did anything really change?

 

[JCKnight]

ok, try again, only this time don't mention Rutgers. Maybe that will help people understand your point better.

Why wouldn’t I mention RU...this is an RU message board is it not?

How bout you don’t tell posters what to say?

 

[ZMR512]

I look at it this way. If this tragedy took place at Rutgers, the school itself would have imposed heavier sanctions than the NCAA could have ever dreamed of. They did just this in the Flood drug monitoring debacle. They imposed sanctions far greater than those who were caught with similar level III infractions. Now on the flip side psu tried every twist and turn in the legal process to weasel out of the deserved sanctions.

So from a moral standpoint the place is a sleaze hole. They say they've changed, I say it was just public grandstanding to get the football machine back on track as soon as possible. Hell, the next year they held football camps and they failed to vet 10% of the counselors. Total camps, that was like 57 counselors. These guys are working with kids as young as 5. Coming off a tragedy of this scale wouldn't you make sure it was 100%? Which begs the question, did anything really change?

Two things:

(1) I've seen these self-righteous comments before. "RU would have shut down the football program." No, it wouldn't. Nor should it.

(2) PSU didn't engage in the legal process to erase or cut short any part of the sanctions. The NCAA overstepped its bounds to such a degree, attempting to take money outside of the state, that PA lawmakers got involved.

 

[JCKnight]

I look at it this way. If this tragedy took place at Rutgers, the school itself would have imposed heavier sanctions than the NCAA could have ever dreamed of. They did just this in the Flood drug monitoring debacle. They imposed sanctions far greater than those who were caught with similar level III infractions. Now on the flip side psu tried every twist and turn in the legal process to weasel out of the deserved sanctions.

So from a moral standpoint the place is a sleaze hole. They say they've changed, I say it was just public grandstanding just to get the football machine back on track as soon as possible. Hell, the next year they held football camps and they failed to vet 10% of the counselors. Total camps, that was like 57 counselors. These guys are working with kids as young as 5. Coming off a tragedy of this scale wouldn't you make sure it was 100%? Which begs the question, did anything really change?

Our basketball coach was physically assaulting basketball players...did we drop the hammer on the entire program? From what I have read the PSU trustees accepted the heavy NCAA sanctions without a proper NCAA review...I’m not sure how that is then said to be trying to sliver out of sanctions...

Your other point I’m not sure the relevance to the arguement...That’s a small error margin that I think most well controlled organizations might accept given the cost benefit analysis...did any of those non vetted counselors cause issues?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Why wouldn’t I mention RU...this is an RU message board is it not?

How bout you don’t tell posters what to say?

You are allow to dig your hole as deep as you want it to go. I am not stopping you.

Why bring Rutgers into this? What do they have to do with anything? You are just using Whataboutism because you are upset the OP posted something bad about your favorite Penn State.

For those who don't know:

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Now read the OP and then read this guys replies and make up your own mind about what is happening here.

 

[RU4Real]

More than 50% of the RU athletics budget is from sources that are taking away from academic funds that other programs don’t reach into...all I’m saying is let’s not pretend we place academics completely over athletics

Maybe people would be more tolerant of your point of view if you told the truth.

In 2017 the Athletics Department drew upon $21M in Direct Institutional Support - out of a $99M budget.

That's about 21%. Not "more than 50%".

Athletics also drew money from Student Fees ($11.8M) and an internal loan from the University ($14M). Neither of these two allocations are derived, in any way, from money that would have otherwise gone to academics.

 

[koleszar]

Two things:

(1) I've seen these self-righteous comments before. "RU would have shut down the football program." No, it wouldn't. Nor should it.

(2) PSU didn't engage in the legal process to erase or cut short any part of the sanctions. The NCAA overstepped its bounds to such a degree, attempting to take money outside of the state, that PA lawmakers got involved.

(1) Where did I say we'd shut the whole thing down? Not nice putting words in people's mouths. Your schools strategy on this, let's pay everyone off and just move on. Not fix the problem, or take our punishment, we need to move on as quickly as possible and reducing the sanctions as quickly as possible will help us move on.

(2)Your school was more than welcome to accept the outcome now weren't you. And let's move on from this tragedy.

Our basketball coach was physically assaulting basketball players...did we drop the hammer on the entire program? From what I have read the PSU trustees accepted the heavy NCAA sanctions without a proper NCAA review...I’m not sure how that is then said to be trying to sliver out of sanctions...

Your other point I’m not sure the relevance to the arguement...That’s a small error margin that I think most well controlled organizations might accept given the cost benefit analysis...did any of those non vetted counselors cause issues?

You just compared a guy throwing basketball and using homophobic slurs to child sexual abuse. Do you really think they are the same?

Second, again the tragedy was of historic horrific nature. Sure it's a small margin of error for a school in which this didn't happen to. But it just happened to them the prior year. Wouldn't you make sure this never happened again at your school and vet every single one. Not just say O well were in the small margin of error, no way this can happen to us again. Because last time we fell asleep at the wheel for decades. So let's see if falling asleep works this time again.

 

[WhiteBus]

So this quickly became CE board material.

 

[ZMR512]

(1) Where did I say we'd shut the whole thing down? Not nice putting words in people's mouths. Your schools strategy on this, let's pay everyone off and just move on. Not fix the problem, or take our punishment, we need to move on as quickly as possible and reducing the sanctions as quickly as possible will help us move on.

(2)Your school was more than welcome to accept the outcome now weren't you. And let's move on from this tragedy.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth directly. I have seen other Rutgers comments say just that, that Rutgers would shut down the program if Sandusky had happened there. It's a ridiculous take.

In terms of PSU's strategy, it was pretty clear from the get-go that there wasn't much of a strategy at all. The Board of Trustees put on a master class in how not to handle a scandal. I have no desire to dig into all of the ways things could have been handled better, from start to finish, as it accomplishes nothing. My point was only that PSU did not actively work to reduce the sanctions, as you suggested.

 

[koleszar]

I wasn't putting words in your mouth directly. I have seen other Rutgers comments say just that, that Rutgers would shut down the program if Sandusky had happened there. It's a ridiculous take.

With the way the media would hound us I'm not so sure they wouldn't. New Jersey is not hooked on college football. The out cries to shut it down, especially when the depths and length of the tragedy were exposed would have been deafening. NJ lawmakers would not be there to defend Rutgers instead would have joined the pitchfork crowd. Fans would not have been imploring our innocence. The NCAA may not have warranted a death penalty but the school might have just been pressured into one. We've been known to cow down to pressure on quite a few instances. Rutgers already has a masters degree on how to mismanage crisis's.

 

[ZMR512]

With the way the media would hound us I'm not so sure they wouldn't. New Jersey is not hooked on college football. The out cries to shut it down, especially when the depths and length of the tragedy were exposed would have been deafening. NJ lawmakers would not be there to defend Rutgers instead would have joined the pitchfork crowd. Fans would not have been imploring our innocence. The NCAA may not have warranted a death penalty but the school might have just been pressured into one. We've been known to cow down to pressure on quite a few instances. Rutgers already has a masters degree on how to mismanage crisis's.

If this was 15 or 20 years ago, I might be more inclined to entertain this idea. A few years from more than $50 million in annual B1G revenue, not a chance.

We can just agree to disagree.

 

[MADHAT1]

Spanier was part of a conspiracy by members of the Penn St Administration (President,VP,AD & FB HC) to hide the fact that children were being molested on the PSU Campus and withheld that knowledge from getting out for years, allowing a pervert connected to the Football program to continue to molest children.
No matter how someone tries to minimize Penn St's role in what Spanier was sentenced for, the facts point out that Penn St allowed to happen and involving them when discussing Spanier appealing his sentence is justifiable.

What's not justifiable is trying to involve RU in this discussion or use how the RU fanbase feels about Penn St.

 

[ZMR512]

Spanier was part of a conspiracy by members of the Penn St Administration (President,VP,AD & FB HC) to hide the fact that children were being molested on the PSU Campus and withheld that knowledge from getting out for years, allowing a pervert connected to the Football program to continue to molest children.
No matter how someone tries to minimize Penn St's role in what Spanier was sentenced for, the facts point out that Penn St allowed to happen and involving them when discussing Spanier appealing his sentence is justifiable.

What's not justifiable is trying to involve RU in this discussion or use how the RU fanbase feels about Penn St.

They were found not guilty of the conspiracy charges. Spanier is appealing a conviction for one count of child endangerment.

 

[MADHAT1]

They were found not guilty of the conspiracy charges. Spanier is appealing a conviction for one count of child endangerment.

OJ was found not guilty of Murder, sometimes justice might not be served.
Conspiracy charges against Curley and Schultz were dropped and Spanier was acquitted of conspiracy but each of them were found guilty of child endangerment. Guess they didn't know what the other was doing?
All in all, no matter how you look at the charges and what some of the Penn St Administration were charged with, along with being found guilty, not guilty or charges dropped, Penn St needs to be considered part of the Spanier appeal discussion, because that school allowed Spanier to protect a child molester.

 

[ZMR512]

OJ was found not guilty of Murder, sometimes justice might not be served.
Conspiracy charges against Curley and Schultz were dropped and Spanier was acquitted of conspiracy but each of them were found guilty of child endangerment. Guess they didn't know what the other was doing?
All in all, no matter how you look at the charges and what some of the Penn St Administration were charged with, along with being found guilty, not guilty or charges dropped, Penn St needs to be considered part of the Spanier appeal discussion, because that school allowed Spanier to protect a child molester.

They all were privy to some or all of the information, sure. They all screwed up, there's no debate there. That doesn't necessarily rise to the level of conspiracy, though, let alone a conspiracy to protect a former employee who is also a pedophile. The difference in your OJ comparison is there was an overwhelming amount of evidence available to convict OJ; the state had a very weak case against Curley, Spanier and Schultz, on a number of fronts.

And when you say Penn State "allowed" Spanier to "protect a child molester," what exactly is Penn State? Some mythical being? Spanier actually sued Penn State, and the university countersued Spanier. It's fair to be critical of a few individuals in their handling of this case - it was beyond poor - but I don't even understand comments as dramatic as yours.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

They all were privy to some or all of the information, sure. They all screwed up, there's no debate there. That doesn't necessarily rise to the level of conspiracy, though, let alone a conspiracy to protect a former employee who is also a pedophile.

When you say Penn State "allowed" Spanier to "protect a child molester," what exactly is Penn State? Some mythical being? Spanier actually sued Penn State, and the university countersued Spanier. It's fair to be critical of a few individuals in their handling of this case - it was beyond poor - but I don't even understand comments as dramatic as yours.

Protect the cult at all cost, and maybe I can convert a few Rutgers fans.[roll]

 

[MADHAT1]

They all were privy to some or all of the information, sure. They all screwed up, there's no debate there. That doesn't necessarily rise to the level of conspiracy, though, let alone a conspiracy to protect a former employee who is also a pedophile. The difference in your OJ comparison is there was an overwhelming amount of evidence available to convict OJ; the state had a very weak case against Curley, Spanier and Schultz, on a number of fronts.

And when you say Penn State "allowed" Spanier to "protect a child molester," what exactly is Penn State? Some mythical being? Spanier actually sued Penn State, and the university countersued Spanier. It's fair to be critical of a few individuals in their handling of this case - it was beyond poor - but I don't even understand comments as dramatic as yours.

Dramatic you say, maybe because of this fact that those trying to make Penn St look innocent and place all the blame on Curley , Spanier and Schultz by failing to address the 40 or more years Penn St knew sexual assaults on children were going on and paying for silence was the way that school handled it.
Penn State's legal settlements with Jerry Sandusky's accusers cover alleged abuse dating to 1971, which was 40 years before his arrest, the university admitted, providing the first confirmation of the time frame of abuse claims that have led to big payouts.
The disclosure came as Penn State President Eric Barron decried newly revealed allegations that former football coach Joe Paterno was told in 1976 that Sandusky had sexually abused a child.
Responding to questions about the claims against the school, university spokesman Lawrence Lokman told The Associated Press he could confirm that the earliest year of alleged abuse covered in Penn State's settlements is 1971.
The settlements, including the one covering.
the 1971 allegation, were reached after Sandusky's 2012 conviction.

There's no way anyone can defend Penn St by blaming it just on those arrested, this was a Penn St University problem that was hidden for years before Sandusky's molesting a child was reported to Paterno in 2001.

 

[ScarletDave]

Just win. Literally just win, that is all that matters in this world of the sports. That’s it.

 

[thegock]

There's a difference between balancing the budget and criminal conspiracy.

You left out one part: (what you said: plus..."to enable a child molester, which involved the AD and Joe Pedterno.")

If the cult continues to deny the truth, then fine, I think Joe Ped was a participant in abusing children.

Cult that, Einstein.

 

[thegock]

In 2017 the Athletics Department drew upon $21M in Direct Institutional Support - out of a $99M budget.

That's about 21%. Not "more than 50%"./QUOTE]

MATH MUCH?

 

[JCKnight]

Maybe people would be more tolerant of your point of view if you told the truth.

In 2017 the Athletics Department drew upon $21M in Direct Institutional Support - out of a $99M budget.

That's about 21%. Not "more than 50%".

Athletics also drew money from Student Fees ($11.8M) and an internal loan from the University ($14M). Neither of these two allocations are derived, in any way, from money that would have otherwise gone to academics.

How can you say student fees and especially a university loan are not taking away from money allocated toward academics? Do the research and tell me how many programs utilize student fees to drive up tuition to support athletics? Where do you think this loan comes from? Certainly a bank account that the university would otherwise use to support academics and research...

 

[JCKnight]

You are allow to dig your hole as deep as you want it to go. I am not stopping you.

Why bring Rutgers into this? What do they have to do with anything? You are just using Whataboutism because you are upset the OP posted something bad about your favorite Penn State.

For those who don't know:

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Now read the OP and then read this guys replies and make up your own mind about what is happening here.

I’m glad you have appointed yourself the board police, now go away with your witch hunt...

 

[RU4Real]

How can you say student fees and especially a university loan are not taking away from money allocated toward academics? Do the research and tell me how many programs utilize student fees to drive up tuition to support athletics? Where do you think this loan comes from? Certainly a bank account that the university would otherwise use to support academics and research...

Bullshit. Student fees are levied to support non-academic student activities.

The "university bank" that the loan came from is otherwise known as the university's investment portfolio.

You've gone from ridiculous to stupid, so I'm done with you.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Bullshit. Student fees are levied to support non-academic student activities.

The "university bank" that the loan came from is otherwise known as the university's investment portfolio.

You've gone from ridiculous to stupid, so I'm done with you.

Is JCKnight a Rutgers fan or is he's just here as a typical NJ stink-starter... ABR?