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OT: It's official - Houston Astros cheated in 2017 to win WS

Yeah, but I guarantee you no Yankee fans start buying hats and becoming "fans" of random NL teams just because the Mets are playing them in the playoffs. We just don't care about the Mets all that much. The hate in the Mets-Yankees rivalry is very, very one-sided in my experience.
No... they just started random Marlins and Phillies threads only to bash the Mets. I can see Phillies since we got South Jersey Fans here but Miami lol?

Oh BTW, how many bandwagonners started buying Yankee hats in the late 90s after a decade of Stienbrenner in his worst?
 
No... they just started random Marlins and Phillies threads only to bash the Mets. I can see Phillies since we got South Jersey Fans here but Miami lol?
Actually I thought it was a Marlins' fan who started the heavy bashing - he was banned under multiple names.
 
MLB needs to figure out the dissuasive penalties so nobody ventures down this road again. Anything less than a draconian outlook simply encourages more of it by everybody else. They also need to end employment for many Houston Astro executives and perhaps threaten removal of the owner from the Houston franchise (IF they can).

This isn't a case of a bad apple or two or vengeance by fans of the teams affected. This was a coordinated effort by an entire organization. Everyone's going to be watching to see what happens.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/st...anfred-faces-test-cracking-cheating-mlb-teams
 
MLB needs to figure out the dissuasive penalties so nobody ventures down this road again. Anything less than a draconian outlook simply encourages more of it by everybody else. They also need to end employment for many Houston Astro executives and perhaps threaten removal of the owner from the Houston franchise (IF they can).

This isn't a case of a bad apple or two or vengeance by fans of the teams affected. This was a coordinated effort by an entire organization. Everyone's going to be watching to see what happens.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/st...anfred-faces-test-cracking-cheating-mlb-teams
Agreed. Lots of fines and suspensions. The WS title from 2017 should be vacated.
 
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MLB needs to figure out the dissuasive penalties so nobody ventures down this road again. Anything less than a draconian outlook simply encourages more of it by everybody else. They also need to end employment for many Houston Astro executives and perhaps threaten removal of the owner from the Houston franchise (IF they can).

This isn't a case of a bad apple or two or vengeance by fans of the teams affected. This was a coordinated effort by an entire organization. Everyone's going to be watching to see what happens.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/st...anfred-faces-test-cracking-cheating-mlb-teams

Of course most of this would never happen, but...

Vacate the WS win, removal of several executives and coaches, possible "show cause" penalties to rehire them or even outright bans, removal of picks and int'l money, lower their threshold for the luxury tax to kick in for a period of years, etc. Maybe even do an NCAA-style "postseason ban" for a period of years.

But it has to be player-impactful, too - they all were aware of it and did nothing. Need to send a message that not only planning such an effort, but participating in it, has consequence. Vacate the WS win and collect all awards/rings/etc, fines, etc. Also possibly a lifetime ban from the HOF a la Pete Rose and the Black Sox for all players on the team in those years.
 
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Of course most of this would never happen, but...

Vacate the WS win, removal of several executives and coaches, possible "show cause" penalties to rehire them or even outright bans, removal of picks and int'l money, lower their threshold for the luxury tax to kick in for a period of years, etc. Maybe even do an NCAA-style "postseason ban" for a period of years.

But it has to be player-impactful, too - they all were aware of it and did nothing. Need to send a message that not only planning such an effort, but participating in it, has consequence. Vacate the WS win and collect all awards/rings/etc, fines, etc. Also possibly a lifetime ban from the HOF a la Pete Rose and the Black Sox for all players on the team in those years.
Sounds like the Mets will. need to find another new manager. Perhaps Callaway is still available? :)
 
Agreed. Lots of fines and suspensions. The WS title from 2017 should be vacated.
I don't agree with that, although it was my initial reaction as well when I first saw the video. Joel Sherman of the Post rightly pointed out that the NCAA is the only body silly enough to try to pretend that something never happened. Well, the IOC does too, but it looks just as foolish trying to run around and get medals back after the fact. The Farquahar video happened exactly a week after Manfred's statement that "future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”

There's been talk of suspensions too. I have mixed feelings about this, since it does seem fair to punish those directly involved, but on the other hand it doesn't seem particularly fair to hurt the Mets, for example, for what Beltran did while he was a Astro. Glad I'm not Manfred, that's for sure.
 
I don't agree with that, although it was my initial reaction as well when I first saw the video. Joel Sherman of the Post rightly pointed out that the NCAA is the only body silly enough to try to pretend that something never happened. Well, the IOC does too, but it looks just as foolish trying to run around and get medals back after the fact. The Farquahar video happened exactly a week after Manfred's statement that "future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”

There's been talk of suspensions too. I have mixed feelings about this, since it does seem fair to punish those directly involved, but on the other hand it doesn't seem particularly fair to hurt the Mets, for example, for what Beltran did while he was a Astro. Glad I'm not Manfred, that's for sure.
The Astros need to get crushed for this organization wide effort.

As for cheating Beltran, he should be suspended for half the season.
:)
 
Don't know anything about Mets fans since I'm not one, but that is a video of the representative Yankees fan reacting to the news about the Astros. Please don't project your angst onto others.
Project and deflect!
 
Don't know anything about Mets fans since I'm not one, but that is a video of the representative Yankees fan reacting to the news about the Astros. Please don't project your angst onto others.
Ah, didn't know the Yankee fans shouldn't be upset that they lost to a team that did wholesale cheating to beat them and go on to win a World Series. We'll just settle down then. :Okay
 
When a team is successful and is found to be cheating, the runner-up definitely has the right to feel cheated. For what it's worth, the Astros pitchers dominated the Yankees offense in 2017, so the cheating may not have been the deciding factor. As a Yankee fan, I'm ticked that my team was the victim of the cheating... any Mets fan who says that they wouldn't care if in the same position is lying to themselves.

@czxqa makes a good point (or references Sherman's point) about how silly vacating titles is. It happened and you can't change that. If the Astros gave themselves a competitive advantage for at least three years, then they can be put at a competitive disadvantage for three years. Dock top draft picks and lower their salary cap threshold.
 
The subsequent careers of players/coaches/executives from Houston 2017 (and 2018, and 2019) should definitely be looked at more closely, too. Did Beltran bring anything to the Yankees for those years? Did Cora bring anything to the Red Sox? Etc. If their takeaway was that cheating wins rings, it stands to reason that might carry forward. Might be harder to get full-organization buy in at a new stop, though, whereas in Houston it seems like it came from the top down - but it's certainly worth a look.

More and more evidence is coming out, and now that people know what to look/listen for, it's easy to find the patterns in YouTube videos. MLB has to make an example of Houston at this point, I'd think.
 
The subsequent careers of players/coaches/executives from Houston 2017 (and 2018, and 2019) should definitely be looked at more closely, too. Did Beltran bring anything to the Yankees for those years? Did Cora bring anything to the Red Sox? Etc. If their takeaway was that cheating wins rings, it stands to reason that might carry forward. Might be harder to get full-organization buy in at a new stop, though, whereas in Houston it seems like it came from the top down - but it's certainly worth a look.

More and more evidence is coming out, and now that people know what to look/listen for, it's easy to find the patterns in YouTube videos. MLB has to make an example of Houston at this point, I'd think.
Thank you well said. The moron picking on the "new" Mets manager may live to regret his ignorant statements if in fact a tie to recent Yankee success has any ties to Beltran.
 
What I find surprising about this, is the belief the people involved thought they could get away with it. The more people involved in any conspiracy, the more likely it will fall apart and be discovered. With free agency and trades, any suspicions other players/teams may have had will be confirmed.
 
What I find surprising about this, is the belief the people involved thought they could get away with it. The more people involved in any conspiracy, the more likely it will fall apart and be discovered. With free agency and trades, any suspicions other players/teams may have had will be confirmed.
Exactly, and if Beltran was involved he'll never see the light of day as Mets manager.
 
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What I find surprising about this, is the belief the people involved thought they could get away with it. The more people involved in any conspiracy, the more likely it will fall apart and be discovered. With free agency and trades, any suspicions other players/teams may have had will be confirmed.

There was clearly no belief that there would be any significant repercussions to their actions. Even if it is discovered, if there are no consequences then the lesson is to just keep doing it.

That's why MLB needs to make an example of them, or it will just continue and become more sophisticated and harder to trace.
 
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When a team is successful and is found to be cheating, the runner-up definitely has the right to feel cheated. For what it's worth, the Astros pitchers dominated the Yankees offense in 2017, so the cheating may not have been the deciding factor. As a Yankee fan, I'm ticked that my team was the victim of the cheating... any Mets fan who says that they wouldn't care if in the same position is lying to themselves.

@czxqa makes a good point (or references Sherman's point) about how silly vacating titles is. It happened and you can't change that. If the Astros gave themselves a competitive advantage for at least three years, then they can be put at a competitive disadvantage for three years. Dock top draft picks and lower their salary cap threshold.
A great way to look at it is that the Yankees hit home runs and struck out a lot while the Astros hit home runs and did not strike out at a lot...well we know now that Astros did not strike out a lot because they knew what pitches were coming. If the Yankees knew what pitches were coming, would the Astros pitching have been so dominant
 
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A great way to look at it is that the Yankees hit home runs and struck out a lot while the Astros hit home runs and did not strike out at a lot...well we know now that Astros did not strike out a lot because they knew what pitches were coming. If the Yankees knew what pitches were coming, would the Astros pitching have been so dominant
Funny thing is Hinch and his complete and utter dismissal of the allegations during the playoffs this year. He's probably regretting the statement about "put your name to it", well they did, and doesn't he look like the horse's ass now. Though perhaps he didn't know about it .... :Sly:
 
The people that think the Yankee fans are whiny are idiots. Even the MLB thinks this is serious.

While speaking at the start of the MLB owners’ meetings, Manfred alluded to the memos he issued to teams regarding sign stealing prior to the start of last season, which stated that future violations could be subject to sanctions like the loss of draft picks. He basically indicated he has the power to drop the hammer on teams depending on the extent of the violation.
 
There was clearly no belief that there would be any significant repercussions to their actions. Even if it is discovered, if there are no consequences then the lesson is to just keep doing it.

That's why MLB needs to make an example of them, or it will just continue and become more sophisticated and harder to trace.

If the Astros are doing this, it's a good guess that other teams might be doing it as well. Won't be surprised if the penalty resorts to only a steep fine, loss of draft picks and loss of international slot/pool money. Going to guess that MLB wants to sweep this under the rug. Afterwards, they will create a new rule with a stiff penalty and call it a day.
 
If, a huge if, no doubt, it turns out that Beltran brought his unique set of skills to the Yankees the past 2 seasons, what would be your take? Stranger things have happened.
Manfred and MLB stated today that no other team is under investigation or suspected of this activity. MLB sent out a memo 2 years ago that if any team was using technology that the penalty would go well beyond the usual. Houston ignored the threat and now the hammer will come down on them
 
Manfred and MLB stated today that no other team is under investigation or suspected of this activity. MLB sent out a memo 2 years ago that if any team was using technology that the penalty would go well beyond the usual. Houston ignored the threat and now the hammer will come down on them
Is this the same Manfred and MLB that knew about this 2 years ago and looked the other way? Do you think there's a chance they would try to sweep as much as they could under the rug, not wanting to show it was wide spread? Asking for a friend.:Wink:
 
Is this the same Manfred and MLB that knew about this 2 years ago and looked the other way? Do you think there's a chance they would try to sweep as much as they could under the rug, not wanting to show it was wide spread? Asking for a friend.:Wink:
No they didn't know about it, just the complaints. Now they have facts and evidence
 
Is this the same Manfred and MLB that knew about this 2 years ago and looked the other way? Do you think there's a chance they would try to sweep as much as they could under the rug, not wanting to show it was wide spread? Asking for a friend.:Wink:
Pretty much, but no sweeping it under the rug this time, LOL. This was topic number one on MLB Tonight on MLB Network. They led tonight's show off with it, for crying out loud. Worst possible timing for the league- the season is over and the baseball writers have literally nothing else to write about until winter meetings next month.

Add to that the fact that it's not just smoke anymore, even the Astros have stopped trying to deny it!

Team employee breaking down the MVP:
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