OT: NJ As Lone Holdout Against Self-Service Gas Pumps
- Thread starter RUinPinehurst
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Good ! Who wants to pump gas ? Let some some guy do it while you stay safe and warm in your car listening to tunes.
I have only pumped gas a few times in my life because I rarely drive out of state, and when on vacation in the states I usually use a cities mass transit or taxis, etc.....I don't think I want to start now.
anyway, I always wondered about women that are really dressed up for a night on the town, fur coat, elegant outfit, gloves, etc....having to pull into a gas station and pump gas on the way......you think they would not like that at all, possibly winding up smelling like gas.
anyway, I always wondered about women that are really dressed up for a night on the town, fur coat, elegant outfit, gloves, etc....having to pull into a gas station and pump gas on the way......you think they would not like that at all, possibly winding up smelling like gas.
Like Madeline Kahn in Young Frankenstein? Who dresses like that? It isn't dirty. No more dirty than pushing a grocery cart.
I have lived in NY, Iowa, Illinois, Washington, and Pennsylvania and all of those states had closed gas stations. What you speak of........it makes no sense.
If someone doesn't immediately come to my car I start the process myself. It's not like someone is going to arrest you for swiping your card.......
Exactly. Because self-service is quicker and better.
As for gas stations not being closed, I would assume he meant in the era of swiping at the pump. Most self-serve gas stations I know have 24-hour pumps, so long as you're paying with credit card. You can't do that when you mandate full service.
Not true. Even with pay at the pump I've been to closed stations in those states. Credit cards often request info that needs to be handled by a person. Self service isn't always quicker or better for multiple reasons already discussed. 76 and sunny, in gym clothes, and I'll pump gas. 90 degrees in August while wearing a suit and I'll wait 3 minutes if necessary.
I used to pump my own gas at Wawa in Bayville/Lanoka Harbor/Toms River. By the time attendant came around I was usually almost finished. In many years of doing it I only remember them telling me that I shouldn't do it once. Many times they would see me get out and put my credit card in and they rushed over to do the rest and I doubt that they would have hustled if I wouldn't have started.
In the 1990s? Maybe the early 2000s. That was the last time I can recall needing a person to process my credit card. That was when full service was at its worst - the guy had to take your card then come back with your receipt and a pen on a little tray, like a restaurant. How can anyone argue that full service is better having lived through that?
Self-swipe gas, self check-out supermarkets, vending machines with credit cards...no person necessary. Point being, a self-serve station can have 24-hour pumps when the inside is closed, a full-service one can't.
To each his own as to preference, but self-serve is quicker. Every time. Unless maybe your attendant has telepathy.
I've lived in NJ almost 20 years now; however, first time I got gas here and the attendant told me he had to do it, I actually left the station and went to a different one. I thought it was a station policy, not an insane state law. I HATE full-serve. Free the pumps, and let us pump our own gas - so much faster and convenient !
What you say about dressed up women, also what a 17 year old girl, what about
about people with any degree of handicap, what about senior citizens?
Seems like people on this board think only of themselves, I don't need to make my
wife at 70 something, learn to pump gas. Or my daughter who has certain physical
disabilities. I now have the cheapest gas in the country, and I don't have to get out of my car.
So we have to change because some people want change just to have a say in things?
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Makes no sense.
Such a weird post with irrational points.
1. Nobody is saying full service pumps should be outlawed. Folks are saying that self service pumps should NOT be outlawed. It is OK that you like full service. But why do you feel the need to force everyone else in the state to use full service just because YOU prefer it?
2. Do you think there are no old people, young people, or people with disabilities outside NJ? Or do you think all those people outside NJ simply aren't able to get gas?
Exactly. After moving out of NJ, it took me a little while, but I now prefer pumping my own. You can train a chimp to do it (most attendants are not Einsteins, even I pumped during high school and you do not want me looking under your hood recommending adding oil). Many are also falsely associating NJ's low gas prices with full service, like if this law is changed, prices will increase. Missing the point entirely. The reason we have lower gas prices is we have lower taxes on fuel. You can be damn sure that this will slowly change over the coming years to help fund our deficit spending.
Now on to a story that is contrary to what I've just written. My dear wife calls me at work one day. She tells me that she thinks she put diesel in our new MDX (non-diesel). I told her that was impossible since the nozzle would not fit. She responded that she had to force it in. After fueling up, she pulls out of the station and the car stalls a 1/2 mile up the road. At which point she calls me. Cost close to $2,000 to fix but no lingering impact thank god.
I personally like self service stations but... many times people use the gas pumps like parking lots so even though they are done filling their car you can't get to the pump because they are inside getting coffee. The same issue happens at Wawa stations where cars are full but the owner is inside buying things.
I'll tell you when NJ will finally do away with it. When electric cars become the dominant mode, and gas stations tarting looking for ways to really shave costs to prolong their inevitable demise.
As for the fancy person pumping gas. Most people plan ahead. If you know you are going to a gala, you put gas in the car before you get dressed. Its not like you have to wait until its the last possible moement.
Just to clarify, the new Oregon bill only allows self-service gas in rural counties (less than 40,000 population), and only when no operator/attendant is available. The purpose of the law is to allow self-service at night in areas where 50-100 miles can separate gas stations.
In more densely populated areas, self-service is still prohibited.
I find it comical when I fill my RV tank in NJ (which I always do because it's much cheaper than any other northeastern states).
The attendants often don't have any idea where the gas cap is.
I usually just start doing it myself. Sometimes they take over.
The attendants often don't have any idea where the gas cap is.
I usually just start doing it myself. Sometimes they take over.
Now that makes some sense. We are in a high-population density state.. the highest.
I can see how in rural areas self-serve is faster. With no line at the pumps, the attendants are likely not just standing by and waiting and you can do it faster yourself. And many places that have lots of pumps do not have enough attendants to get to everyone quickly.
But many times I have been in line behind other cars with the pumps going as quickly as they can serving one car after the next. I cannot believe that in that situation it will be faster for the same idiots I share the highways with to pump their own gas. And you know the old ladies and young buttheads are not going to choose to pay more at full service instead of fumbling around and wasting time trying to pump their own. If you've used self-service checkout at the supermarket, you know what I mean.
Interesting article on the subject below, from The Oregonian; also online at: http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2014/06/younger_oregon_voters_strongly.html
FYI, here in NC, and I suspect in other states where self-service pumps are the law, you can request attendant service by pressing a "call" button at the pump; this service is intended for the disabled, the elderly, the politically challenged (I kid... I kid..). Of course, you will have to wait (patiently) for that attendant.
Younger Oregon voters strongly favor self-service gas pumps: Oregon politics today
By Jeff Mapes | The Oregonian/OregonLive
In its recent Oregon political survey, Public Policy Polling also delved into an issue that hasn't had much recent discussion: Oregon's lonely stand against self-service gasoline.
Public Policy found that Oregonians are almost evenly divided on self-service gas, with 46 percent supporting the state's ban and 44 percent opposed. However, voters under the age of 45 are strongly in favor of pumping their own gas, by a margin of 53 percent to 33 percent.
What's not clear is whether this is an enduring change in attitude, in the same way that the sea change in voter attitudes toward gay marriage was most pronounced among the young.
Readers had plenty to say about a poll that found strong support among younger Oregon voters for lifting the state's ban on self-service gasoline.
When it comes to self-service (which is banned in only one other state, New Jersey), it could simply signal that people become less enamored of doing it themselves when they become older. Interestingly, the overall attitude toward self-service hasn't seemed to change much in recent years.
A 1991 poll sponsored by the Agricultural Cooperative of Oregon found that 49 percent favored self-service and 45 percent opposed, according to a story I found in The Oregonian's electronic morgue.
However, when the issue was on the ballot in 1982, voters decisively cast thumbs down on self-service, rejecting it by a 15-point margin. Ever since, legislators have been wary about bringing up the issue, particularly since opponents tend to be more vociferous in firing off missives to lawmakers when the issue comes up.
Here are a few other interesting tidbits from Public Polling:
FYI, here in NC, and I suspect in other states where self-service pumps are the law, you can request attendant service by pressing a "call" button at the pump; this service is intended for the disabled, the elderly, the politically challenged (I kid... I kid..). Of course, you will have to wait (patiently) for that attendant.
Younger Oregon voters strongly favor self-service gas pumps: Oregon politics today
By Jeff Mapes | The Oregonian/OregonLive
In its recent Oregon political survey, Public Policy Polling also delved into an issue that hasn't had much recent discussion: Oregon's lonely stand against self-service gasoline.
Public Policy found that Oregonians are almost evenly divided on self-service gas, with 46 percent supporting the state's ban and 44 percent opposed. However, voters under the age of 45 are strongly in favor of pumping their own gas, by a margin of 53 percent to 33 percent.
What's not clear is whether this is an enduring change in attitude, in the same way that the sea change in voter attitudes toward gay marriage was most pronounced among the young.
Readers had plenty to say about a poll that found strong support among younger Oregon voters for lifting the state's ban on self-service gasoline.
When it comes to self-service (which is banned in only one other state, New Jersey), it could simply signal that people become less enamored of doing it themselves when they become older. Interestingly, the overall attitude toward self-service hasn't seemed to change much in recent years.
A 1991 poll sponsored by the Agricultural Cooperative of Oregon found that 49 percent favored self-service and 45 percent opposed, according to a story I found in The Oregonian's electronic morgue.
However, when the issue was on the ballot in 1982, voters decisively cast thumbs down on self-service, rejecting it by a 15-point margin. Ever since, legislators have been wary about bringing up the issue, particularly since opponents tend to be more vociferous in firing off missives to lawmakers when the issue comes up.
Here are a few other interesting tidbits from Public Polling:
- The University of Oregon is more popular than Oregon State University, 35 percent to 29 percent (which suggests there are also a lot of people who simply don't care). There's a big partisan divide, however. Democrats are much more apt to favor the Ducks, and Republicans are more likely to go with the Beavers.
- There's also a big partisan divide over the TV show "Portlandia," with -- surprise -- Democrats much more likely to enjoy it. Overall, 27 percent of Oregon voters say they like it and 18 percent don't.
- U.S. Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., continues to be the most popular politician in Oregon, with an approval rating of 58 percent. Public Policy Polling said that puts him among the top 10 senators in the country.
- Fifty-nine percent of Oregon voters favor raising the national minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, a proposal that Democrats are pushing heavily this year. Oregon already has one of the highest minimum wages in the country, at $9.10 an hour.
I think that is because that many of us remember when self-service was introduced in other states. In those states, gas stations initially dropped the price for self-service. But after about 6 months, the price of self service rose back to the full-serve rate and the full-serve price rose even higher (compared to prices in NJ or other states that banned self-serve at the time). And therefore we think the huge price-savings promised by self-serve are not true, and the real price savings is somewhat negligible.
This is supported by a study published in the Review of Economics and Statistics (Ronald Johnson & Charles Romeo, "The Impact of Self-Service Bans in the Retail Gasoline Market", Nov 2000) found that the price of gasoline (after accounting for differences in taxes and wholesale cost) for full serve in NJ is 4.27 cents per gallon higher than self-serve in neighboring states and in Oregon is 2.53 cents per gallon higher than self-serve in neighboring states.
As far as the claim that self-serve is faster than full-serve, Monmouth Univ professor Robert Scott published a study ("Fill'er Up: A Study of Statewide Self-Service Gasoline Station Bans", Sept 2007) in which he compared service times for approximately 400 cars at multiple service stations in NJ and PA and found the average time for obtaining gasoline in NJ was 3 minutes 53 seconds (with a std dev of 66 seconds) and in PA was 3 minutes 38 seconds (with a std dev of 64 seconds). On average, self service in PA saved motorists 15 seconds. Scott attributes the perception that full-service is considerably slower to the fact that drivers are inactive at full-service stations while they are active at self-service stations.
So for an average savings of 2 to 5 cents per gallon, and an average savings of 15 seconds, I think a lot of New Jerseyans prefer the convenience of not having to pump their own gas. Which is why self-service really hasn't gained traction in NJ.
A quick question for those outside of NJ......how. Common is it for a station to have both full and self serve.....in my limited observations it seemed like all the stations were self serve only...
...I am not talking about pushing a button to get help, but having separate pumps marked as full or self
...I am not talking about pushing a button to get help, but having separate pumps marked as full or self
Interesting study. People in NJ must be really unique or the study is missing some important insight.
In my experiance, there are gas stations that offer the option of pumping your own gas or having an attendant pump for you. These stations are obviously located in states other than NJ and I have one near me in Florida. The cost for an attendant to pump is slightly more.
My antidotal experiance is that the average consumer would prefer to pump given the option based on the overall volume of use at the different pumps. Now my experiance is in Florida which has a different weather dynamic but is a true comparison of consumer preference.
In my experiance, there are gas stations that offer the option of pumping your own gas or having an attendant pump for you. These stations are obviously located in states other than NJ and I have one near me in Florida. The cost for an attendant to pump is slightly more.
My antidotal experiance is that the average consumer would prefer to pump given the option based on the overall volume of use at the different pumps. Now my experiance is in Florida which has a different weather dynamic but is a true comparison of consumer preference.
I was also a "petroleum disbursement engineer" my Sr. year in HS (1981-82). Super was $1.47/gal in early '82. Worked for Scrocco Shell in Chatham Boro on RT. 24. It was actually real full service back then. Checked oil, air, battery, washed windows. Best perk was getting to use the lift in the bay to work on my car.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf...s_was_banned_in_nj_corruption_not_safety.html
Although a percentage will refuse to click on the link to nj.com, it's a good explanation (and an added bonus).
Although a percentage will refuse to click on the link to nj.com, it's a good explanation (and an added bonus).
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Wheezer, In my experience, "full-service" stations in NC are just that: they typically offer a range of car-care maintenance/repair services, compared to a "gas station" which has morphed into the mini-mart/convenient mart (7-11, Wawa, Sheetz, Pantry, etc.) business model that focuses on high mark-up goods (inside) to lure those "pay-at-the-pump" customers. That dynamic also frequently results in lower gas prices, as those outlets compete for your $, anticipating your purchase of those inside goodies.
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And then there's that. Further, in NJ you still cannot purchase beer and wine in a grocery store or other non-liquor store outlet, right? Same in PA. Another Jersey peculiarity, no? Too much influence by the "established" infrastructure, legal and otherwise.
Lower prices for self-serve is a lie. It has more to do with gas taxes. In fact, less competition for the big companies usually means a small uptick in prices for more profits.
Drivers of diesel vehicles are allowed to pump their own gas-there's a pump at the Wawa in Kearny stating that.
It has something to do so with the flammability of each type of fuel.
It has something to do so with the flammability of each type of fuel.
Maybe it's time to designate a 'Self Serve' Week in July and February where everyone has to pump their own.
Service stations would still have to have attendants around to instruct the 'uneducated' during that week.
A survey form would be given to the customers to fill out at home and mail it in for tallying the results.
Lets see how that works out for the masses.
Service stations would still have to have attendants around to instruct the 'uneducated' during that week.
A survey form would be given to the customers to fill out at home and mail it in for tallying the results.
Lets see how that works out for the masses.
I had someone pump for me in Massachusetts a few years ago for no extra charge.
Some older, rickety stations still do.
Only two supermarkets per chain in NJ are allowed to get liquor licenses (but a legislator introduced a bill a couple years ago to raise the limit to 10- what happened to that?). PA has state-owned liquor stores.
Some older, rickety stations still do.
Only two supermarkets per chain in NJ are allowed to get liquor licenses (but a legislator introduced a bill a couple years ago to raise the limit to 10- what happened to that?). PA has state-owned liquor stores.
Scar 16 same thing with me. as mine is in the back and they have NO clue where to even start looking for it.
Also when was the last time anyone ever really got "full service" like when I was a kid and they would wash the windshield and check oil level o_O
When it's freezing, cold or raining , checking tires , oil , wiping windshield isn't much fun for the attendant.
In HS was one and dreaded to be asked to do that in terrible weather and seemed the older ( I'm one now) regular customers
wanted and expected just that ( all I mentioned) every time they came in and I had to do it to keep them coming in and not complain
to my boss. It was part of the job and I understood it was expected of me .
Times have changed , now I probably would whine on this board about having to do that or complain the attendant took to long checking my tires
in the pouring rain or blizzard.:D
While NJ has the 2nd lowest gas tax in the country, few months ago, NJ had the 22nd highest gas price:
From USA TODAY:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/01/20/24-7-wall-st-state-gas-taxes/22056799/
2. New Jersey
> Tax as pct. of gas price: 7.0%
> State fuel tax: 14.5 cents per gallon (2nd lowest)
> Gas price: $2.06 (22nd highest)
New Jersey has the second lowest gas tax in the nation. The price of fuel, however, is relatively high due in large part to a statewide ban on self-service gas stations. Only Oregon has a similar law. While reform advocates argue that lifting the ban would lower gas prices, proponents of the ban argue that full-service stations are a critical source of jobs.
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With clean, new mega gas stations/convenience locations like Wawa, Racetrac and others, its silly to have 16-20 pumps but only 1-2 gas jockeys to deal with all those pumps.
Get in, get out...as any idiot can figure out how to quickly pay/use any pump.
NOTE: Loss of jobs complaint is laughable...if that was the case...State never would have allowed E-Z Pass...and most would still be waiting in line to pay their toll to a human being.
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