OT. So much for secret ballots in NJ.

[ruready4somefootball]

OK, so much for a secret ballot at our voting booths. I went to vote for the NJ primary today, and I was told I was considered an independent since I've voted for both party's in the past depending who I liked from year to year. So today, just for today's primary, I have to declare a party and I must vote that way in the booth! What kind of bull$hit is this? I was going to walk out, but I felt I was there to do my civic duty and wasn't going to let this stop me.Has this always been the case for primary's, and if so,why this rule? Also, I didn't know they were collecting a catalog of how every American votes.

 

[mdk01]

New Jersey has always had "closed primaries", which mean only those who have a registered party affiliation vote in their primary. When I lived in Massachusetts, independents could vote in either party's primary, just not both. I like that system better.

 

[retired711]

The idea is that one can only vote in a party's primary if one is affiliated with that party. Normally, voters affiliate by registering as a member of a political primary; for instance, I am registered as a Democrat, and the fact that I am a registered Democrat is public information. You are not registered, and therefore you can vote in a party's primary by affiliating at the polls. Note that your affiliation makes you a member of that party until you change your registration back to independent.

You should regard yourself as lucky. In New York, only those registered as a member of a political party can vote in the primary. Independents can't vote in any party's primary.

 

[Kbee3]

The idea is that one can only vote in a party's primary if one is affiliated with that party. Normally, voters affiliate by registering as a member of a political primary; for instance, I am registered as a Democrat, and the fact that I am a registered Democrat is public information. You are not registered, and therefore you can vote in a party's primary by affiliating at the polls. Note that your affiliation makes you a member of that party until you change your registration back to independent.

You should regard yourself as lucky. In New York, only those registered as a member of a political party can vote in the primary. Independents can't vote in any party's primary.

I don't have a problem with this. If you are not a member of a party why should you be able to vote as to who its candidate is ?

 

[oldman87]

There is a primary today?

 

[demauroj]

Today's Votes are Primaries, and not open votes.

 

[mdk01]

The idea is that one can only vote in a party's primary if one is affiliated with that party. Normally, voters affiliate by registering as a member of a political primary; for instance, I am registered as a Democrat, and the fact that I am a registered Democrat is public information. You are not registered, and therefore you can vote in a party's primary by affiliating at the polls. Note that your affiliation makes you a member of that party until you change your registration back to independent.

You should regard yourself as lucky. In New York, only those registered as a member of a political party can vote in the primary. Independents can't vote in any party's primary.

I think a better case for closed primaries can be made in a multiple party European type parliamentary system than here in the US. Effectively there are only 2 party's here. I think locking out 35-40% of the electorate isn't beneficial.

And forcing Independents to register will lead to climate change, as the amount of paper products used to create political junk mail and electricity used for fundraising calls will skyrocket. [winking]

 

[retired711]

No one is talking about forcing independents who don't want to vote in a primary to register with a party. . It is perfectly reasonable for political parties to be able to limit participation in their primaries to members of the party. Not all states allow this, but New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania are among those who do.

 

[Alamo Al]

The idea is that one can only vote in a party's primary if one is affiliated with that party. Normally, voters affiliate by registering as a member of a political primary; for instance, I am registered as a Democrat, and the fact that I am a registered Democrat is public information. You are not registered, and therefore you can vote in a party's primary by affiliating at the polls. Note that your affiliation makes you a member of that party until you change your registration back to independent.

You should regard yourself as lucky. In New York, only those registered as a member of a political party can vote in the primary. Independents can't vote in any party's primary.

Cam. That makes sense because party cross over can rig an election if they vote for a candidate that they truly believe can be beaten by their own.

 

[oldman87]

Like Trump, mission accomplished.

 

[rube1859]

I think the people above have explained it rather well. In NJ, to vote in a primary, you must either be a registered member of the party OR declare that day at the polls which party you will be voting for.

Importantly, primaries are run by the parties so the general rules you're accustomed to don't necessarily apply. Look at how Ds and Rs have different systems for nominating their candidate for president (i.e. different delegate allocations, rules for support, etc.). If this were a general election, what happened today would not occur b/c any registered voter can go in and pick who they want.

From a practical point of view, since both a Democrat ballot and a Republican ballot are in the machine, only one can be activated so you have to tell the poll workers which party so they can make sure only one is on.

On a side note, you can change your party affiliation back to unaffiliated (this is official term, not independent). The form can be found here: http://www.state.nj.us/state/elections/voting-information-party-declaration-forms.html

 

[Doctor Worm]

Some states have primary caucuses, in which you declare your vote publicly. A few states don't have primaries at all. The bottom line is that we do not have an inherent right to choose a party's candidate. The party determines how much voice we may have.

 

[mdk01]

Cam. That makes sense because party cross over can rig an election if they vote for a candidate that they truly believe can be beaten by their own.

I prefer the Massachusetts system. No crossovers for registered R's and D's. Independents allowed to vote in he race (either D or R) they choose. That way you don't have to go back and change your registration back to Independent after a primary. Eliminates the paper work which really serves no purpose.

 

[retired711]

California has an odder system, called a "jungle primary." In California, all of the candidates for an office appear on one primary ballot. Anyone can vote in that primary for the candidate of his or her choice. The top two then face off in November, regardless of their political party affiliation. What this means is that two Democrats will probably face each other in November for the open California Senate seat.

The state once had a system allowing a candidate to appear on both the Democratic and Republican primary ballot. The result was that there was a year in which Earl Warren won the nomination of both parties for re-election as governor of California. That state truly does things oddly.

 

[ruready4somefootball]

OK, I guess my problem really is did they know I've voted both parties in the past? If so, I don't like that or is it because I've never declared and they assume I'm independent? Also, would they have know if I didn't vote the way I declared today?

 

[rube1859]

OK, I guess my problem really is did they know I've voted both parties in the past? If so, I don't like that or is it because I've never declared and they assume I'm independent? Also, would they have know if I didn't vote the way I declared today?

When did you vote for both parties? If done in general elections, well they won't know because that is a secret ballot. If you've never actually voted in a primary, they'd have no clue what party you voted for. I don't think I've seen a clear description of WHEN you voted for both parties. That is key.

 

[Doctor Worm]

1. OK, I guess my problem really is did they know I've voted both parties in the past? 2. If so, I don't like that or is it because I've never declared and they assume I'm independent? 3. Also, would they have know if I didn't vote the way I declared today?

1. See Rube's response above. If you voted for both parties in the past in the general election, no one would know.

2. My guess is that you never voted in a primary before. If you had, you would have had to declare a party affiliation then, and you would have only been eligible to vote in THAT primary today. (Unless of course you formally went back to unaffiliated status in the meantime.)

3. Regardless of how you voted in the primary today, no one will know how you vote in the general. In fact no one will know how you voted in the primary - just what party you declared for. For instance, if you had declared Democrat, no one will know whether you voted for Hillary, Bernie, or a write in.

 

[Wolv RU]

If this year has taught us anything, it is that the system as a whole only exists for the purpose of ensuring that the two parties keep control of it. The parties can control their own nomination processes however they want, and the voters' only choice at the end of the day is to choose one of the two parties.

Some choice.

 

[ecojew]

I think the OP might be misunderstanding his situation. In NJ, if you are registered with one party, you must declare that when you sign in. When you go into the voting booth, only that party's candidates will be available to you.

When you appeared as an independent today, you were still permitted to vote, unlike in many states. But you still had to declare in which party's primary you planned to participate so that, just like me, when you were in the booth, only that party's candidates were available to you.

So NJ's system is "closed" in a sense but "open" in another sense in that, next year, for the primary election for governor, when you go to the polls, I believe that you can still present yourself as an independent and, should you choose, indicate that you want to vote in a different party's primary than the one in which you voted today. So there is some flexibility built into the system, from my understanding of it.

At least NJ still sends out sample ballots a week before each election. That's really nice to have so that you can make your choices, take your time reading ballot questions when there any, etc. For the 15 years I stayed on LI, there were no sample ballots and the board of elections people were quite surprised when I called to ask for one.

 

[mdk01]

If this year has taught us anything, it is that the system as a whole only exists for the purpose of ensuring that the two parties keep control of it. The parties can control their own nomination processes however they want, and the voters' only choice at the end of the day is to choose one of the two parties.

Some choice.

I'm not sure how you can say that about the RNC. This is their worst nightmare.


On the other hand, I kept waiting for her to show up to an interview wearing a "Ready For Hillary" t-shirt. She took some criticism, but apparently was consoled by the VP.

 

[mdk01]

So NJ's system is "closed" in a sense but "open" in another sense in that, next year, for the primary election for governor, when you go to the polls, I believe that you can still present yourself as an independent and, should you choose, indicate that you want to vote in a different party's primary than the one in which you voted today. So there is some flexibility built into the system, from my understanding of it.

Actually, I believe you have to change back to Independent status before the next election or you are stuck with the primary for the party ypu previously registered with.

 

[ruready4somefootball]

1. See Rube's response above. If you voted for both parties in the past in the general election, no one would know.

2. My guess is that you never voted in a primary before. If you had, you would have had to declare a party affiliation then, and you would have only been eligible to vote in THAT primary today. (Unless of course you formally went back to unaffiliated status in the meantime.)

3. Regardless of how you voted in the primary today, no one will know how you vote in the general. In fact no one will know how you voted in the primary - just what party you declared for. For instance, if you had declared Democrat, no one will know whether you voted for Hillary, Bernie, or a write in.

Ok, I think you guys hit it right. I'm thinking I never voted in a primary before, and feel a lot better that there is no record of how I vote. In local elections and national elections, I have switched who I've voted for,even crossed party's with local and national in the same election.

 

[iReC89]

As long as they didn't put the numbered slip of paper they gave you on a sequential string as you went in the booth, there is no way they can figure out how you voted.

 

[RUinBoston]

New Jersey has always had "closed primaries", which mean only those who have a registered party affiliation vote in their primary. When I lived in Massachusetts, independents could vote in either party's primary, just not both. I like that system better.

Actually the Massachusetts system isn't really any different...when you are an independent in Mass and you vote in a primary you get automatically registered to that party.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Actually, I believe you have to change back to Independent status before the next election or you are stuck with the primary for the party ypu previously registered with.

Before the election, as per the NJ Dept of Elections, I was a registered independent. Today they asked me for a slip, I said Democrat, voted, that was that. I didn't have to sign off on registering as a Democrat. Not that it makes a difference either way, but I am curious to see in a few months if I'm registered as a Democrat.

 

[Wolv RU]

I'm not sure how you can say that about the RNC. This is their worst nightmare.


On the other hand, I kept waiting for her to show up to an interview wearing a "Ready For Hillary" t-shirt. She took some criticism, but apparently was consoled by the VP.

I'm not sure how any citizen could feel good that a person like Wasserman-Shultz has such a large influence in our collective future.

And the GOP did everything they could to keep Trump out. I'm sure they will figure out how to make sure an outsider / populist never happens again in time for 2020. The Democrats figured out how to do that 30+ years ago.

But anyway, the point was, when one looks at the primary process, the debate rules (who gets in), the process of getting on the ballot, and basically everything else about the election process, it is easy to see that it is all controlled by two parties for the benefit of keeping career politicians.

 

[retired711]

Before the election, as per the NJ Dept of Elections, I was a registered independent. Today they asked me for a slip, I said Democrat, voted, that was that. I didn't have to sign off on registering as a Democrat. Not that it makes a difference either way, but I am curious to see in a few months if I'm registered as a Democrat.

You will find that you are registered as a Democrat. You'll have to re-register if you want to go back to being unaffiliated. In theory, what you said at the polls was that you wanted to affiliate as a Democrat, and that is how the law treats you.

 

[mdk01]

Actually the Massachusetts system isn't really any different...when you are an independent in Mass and you vote in a primary you get automatically registered to that party.

Then it's changed since I lived there in the 80's.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

I voted for Trump yesterday

 

[mdk01]

I voted for Trump yesterday

Oh, and I may as well respond to someone who will post they voted for Hillary.

 

[Kbee3]

I'm not sure how any citizen could feel good that a person like Wasserman-Shultz has such a large influence in our collective future.

The list of people who one could replace Wasserman-Schultz's name with in that sentence and be absolutely on the money is extremely long. I think it starts in my lifetime with Trcky Dicky and extends all the way to Drumpf.
It's a long, long, long list. And, of course, most of them are Republicans.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You will find that you are registered as a Democrat. You'll have to re-register if you want to go back to being unaffiliated. In theory, what you said at the polls was that you wanted to affiliate as a Democrat, and that is how the law treats you.

That is my guess but I thought I would have had to fill out a form registering as a Democrat. I signed the usual book confirming my identity- is that enough?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

It has always worked that way.

Don't forget to call them again and declared to be registered as unaffiliated.

 

[NotInRHouse]

So what happens if I am registered? Am I going to send me a lot of mail? They can't knock on my door I have a doorman lol

 

[Doctor Worm]

So what happens if I am registered? Am I going to send me a lot of mail?

yes, mostly during election season.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

So what happens if I am registered? Am I going to send me a lot of mail? They can't knock on my door I have a doorman lol

LOTS of Junk Mail will be sent to you and you will only be able to vote in that party's primaries next time.

 

[mdk01]

So what happens if I am registered? Am I going to send me a lot of mail? They can't knock on my door I have a doorman lol

Hope you have caller ID, and the good sense not to donate to any of the organizations. Mailing lists are widely sold, and your postal carrier is going to get really pissed at you due to the extra weight.

Happens in both parties.

 

[NotInRHouse]

good sense not to donate to any of the organizations. Mailing lists are widely sold, and your postal carrier is going to get really pissed at you due to the extra weight.

Yes and yes. I'm going to see how much mail I get. Unrelatedly, both my personal and work cell phones have been getting robocalls despite me being on the do not call.

 

[mdk01]

Yes and yes. I'm going to see how much mail I get. Unrelatedly, both my personal and work cell phones have been getting robocalls despite me being on the do not call.

Political and charity calls are exempt from the "do not call" rules.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Yes and yes. I'm going to see how much mail I get. Unrelatedly, both my personal and work cell phones have been getting robocalls despite me being on the do not call.

The do not call list is a result of a law

Criminals typically don't follow laws