OT: Today is the day! The Big J. (BB-62) will be on the move! Battleship New Jersey heading to dry dock

[WhiteBus]

Since 2000 the Battleship NJ has been docked along the Camden waterfront and became a museum a year later. Well it's time (overdue) for regular maintenance. It will head south to Paulsboro for ballast among other things. Afterwards it will be dry docked at Dock #3 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard. The same dock she was built and launched at in 12/7/1942 (how cool is that? full circle).
A celebration at the Camden dock begins at 11am. Music, food, drinks etc.
Since it's heading to Paulsboro first most of the better viewing areas are along the Jersey side on the way to Paulsboro. The Walt Whitman will be closed as the Big J passes under.
So if you have an open day, a trip to the Camden Waterfront to celebrate the nations most decorated battleship would be a great salute. Bundle up if you plan to go.
More info below

Battleship New Jersey – Experience a tour of the world's greatest battleship!

www.battleshipnewjersey.org

USS New Jersey to leave port for first time in 24 years, big guns will fire salute: 'I love this ship'

The USS New Jersey is scheduled to leave port for the first time in 24 years, to undergo maintenance in Philadelphia. Now a floating museum, the battleship will fire its heavy guns on the journey.

www.google.com

 

[CERU00]

This battleship is an amazing piece of history. I spent a night on the Big J with my son's cub scouts. It was a very cool experience sleeping on one of it's tiny bunks deep within the massive labyrinth of rooms in total darkness. The tour gave me a much better appreciation for the incredible engineering that went into its design. I highly recommend a visit.

 

[dconifer]

https://www.change.org/p/gov-chris-...it-was-supposed-to-be-before-camden-stole-her

Anybody remember how Camden shocked the world and snagged this ship which all but been berthed in North Jersey?

I was kind of new in Jersey at the time...

 

[WhiteBus]

https://www.change.org/p/gov-chris-...it-was-supposed-to-be-before-camden-stole-her

Anybody remember how Camden shocked the world and snagged this ship which all but been berthed in North Jersey?

I was kind of new in Jersey at the time...

If you believe most of what is in that petition I recommend you to stop drinking this morning. 🤣
Most all of that is grossly false. But it's on the Internet so it must be true.
It wasn't NJ politics. There were conditions by the Navy in allowing the Big J to become museum. One it has to be docked in NJ. Effectively eliminating NYC and Philadelphia. Second it was up to the Navy to sift through proposals by different groups to become stewards. One would be selected by the Navy. As explained here:
"The USS New Jersey Battleship Commission sought to bring the ship to northern New Jersey near New York City. The Home Port Alliance for the Battleship New Jersey sought to return the ship to Camden near Philadelphia where she had been built. The State of New Jersey agreed to back whichever group could win approval from the Navy. The Navy accepted the Home Port Alliance’s application on January 20, 2000."
Of the many factors in the choice of Camden was being close to where it was built and could be maintained and the fresh water harbor in Delaware were big factors. It's been 34 years (20 is the recommended) since the New Jersey has been dry docked. Way overdue but not being in salt water has made a big difference.
I moved to Philadelphia in 1988. It was always a big story. At the end it wasn't a surprise at all as it looked good for Camden most of the time. The announcement was exciting news to the area as well as myself.

 

[RUScrew85]

Did a tour last year. Amazing ship.

 

[dconifer]

If you believe most of what is in that petition I recommend you to stop drinking this morning. 🤣
Most all of that is grossly false. But it's on the Internet so it must be true.

i didn't even read the petition, actually. I think petitions like that are silly. I didn't want to spend any more time looking for an article about the hearing that actually decided where the ship would end up. I wasn't vouching for accuracy of anything in the petition. In retrospect, though, you're right that I shouldn't have posted anything that I didn't read and/or didn't believe in.

I do remember everybody being surprised when what was thought of as a rubber-stamp panel surprised everybody by choosing Camden instead of wherever it was going up north (Liberty, I guess). As you said, a major reason cited by the panel was that it was "coming home" and would be across the river from where it was built.

For the record, I thought it was great that it ended up down here. But there was a lot of anger and hurt feelings about it.

However, you're probably right that I should stop drinking this morning...

 

[WhiteBus]

i didn't even read the petition, actually. I think petitions like that are silly. I didn't want to spend any more time looking for an article about the hearing that actually decided where the ship would end up. I wasn't vouching for accuracy of anything in the petition. In retrospect, though, you're right that I shouldn't have posted anything that I didn't read and/or didn't believe in.

I do remember everybody being surprised when what was thought of as a rubber-stamp panel surprised everybody by choosing Camden instead of wherever it was going up north (Liberty, I guess). As you said, a major reason cited by the panel was that it was "coming home" and would be across the river from where it was built.

For the record, I thought it was great that it ended up down here. But there was a lot of anger and hurt feelings about it.

However, you're probably right that I should stop drinking this morning...

Well since you didn't read the petition you can go on and keep drinking 😂
To be clear I was just having a laugh first before giving you info on how it was done.
Im guessing the different viewpoints were the local media in each area were pushing the positive. In Philadelphia I guess we felt they had over a 60/40 chance of getting it.
While in dry dock in Philadelphia they are offering dry dock tours on the weekends. That is something I've never seen. Sounds awesome.

 

[dconifer]

Well since you didn't read the petition you can go on and keep drinking 😂
To be clear I was just having a laugh first before giving you info on how it was done.
Im guessing the different viewpoints were the local media in each area were pushing the positive. In Philadelphia I guess we felt they had over a 60/40 chance of getting it.
While in dry dock in Philadelphia they are offering dry dock tours on the weekends. That is something I've never seen. Sounds awesome.

Yeah, maybe I didn't read the "vibe" properly at the time, and it wasn't as much of a surprise as I thought. I surely didn't know anybody down here thought there was a 60/40 chance of getting it. I was still learning how to do "Jersey" at the time, and there were a couple years of culture shock, ha ha (although I love it here now)...

Bottoms up!

 

[DJ Spanky]

Anybody remember how Camden shocked the world and snagged this ship which all but been berthed in North Jersey?

Yup. It was headed for Liberty State Park or the vicinity in NJ, than the South Jersey politicians swooped in.

 

[Ty Webb]

https://www.change.org/p/gov-chris-...it-was-supposed-to-be-before-camden-stole-her

Anybody remember how Camden shocked the world and snagged this ship which all but been berthed in North Jersey?

I was kind of new in Jersey at the time...

Were these people part of the original group that tried to get it to Bayonne in the first place? This was a separate request by a group founded in 2012 to have the ship moved from Camden.

 

[retired711]

The USS New Jersey was one of six Iowa-class battleships built in World War II. The prototype, the USS Iowa, was built at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. My father, then an electrician at the Yard, probably helped build it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-class_battleship

 

[dconifer]

Were these people part of the original group that tried to get it to Bayonne in the first place? This was a separate request by a group founded in 2012 to have the ship moved from Camden.

Yeah, I think you answered your own question. The petition thing is years after the original decision to send it to Camden. I don't know if any people are common to both Bayonne efforts...

 

[DJ Spanky]

The USS New Jersey was one of six Iowa-class battleships built in World War II.

No, there were only 4 built. The last 2 were cancelled. USS Iowa, USS Wisconsin, USS New Jersey & USS Missouri.

 

[Ty Webb]

No, there were only 4 built. The last 2 were cancelled. USS Iowa, USS Wisconsin, USS New Jersey & USS Missouri.

Illinois and Kentucky were the other two. They were originally slated as Montana class battleships but later changed to Iowa class. Both started construction but then was halted.

The Navy debated using the hulls to build aircraft carriers or other ships but those plans died. I assume the hulls got sold off for scrap at some point.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Illinois and Kentucky were the other two. They were originally slated as Montana class battleships but later changed to Iowa class. Both started construction but then was halted.

Yup. The Montana class was going to be a bigger ship carrying 12 16 inch guns, but they decided they needed more fast battleships ala the Iowa class. They were both laid down in 1942 and slated to be completed in 1945, but the draw down of resources resulted in them being only partially completed in 1945 when the war ended. Both hung around until the late 50's, then were broken up for scrap.

The Navy debated using the hulls to build aircraft carriers or other ships but those plans died.

They also considered using the Kentucky as a guided missile battleship, but the technology was changing so fast that they ultimately decided it wasn't cost effective.

 

[Ty Webb]

Watched some clips of it being moved. Pretty cool.

 

[WhiteBus]

I watched from the Philadelphia side and began at Penns Landing. With military precision the ship started inching away from the Camden at 12:10 as stated. It was great to watch. A cold, windy day but a perfect picture day. They turned it around quickly and were heading south in no time. I had my bike (I wash taking it to my bike shop since Saturday is a was out) so I was able to keep ahead of it. All along Delaware Ave people were just parking in the middle of the road to get a look and a take picture. When you see it in the middle of the river you really get the correct scale on how huge it is! I wish there was an instant easy way to share the pictures. That ship is majestic and bad ass at the same time.

 

[RUScrew85]

I watched from the Philadelphia side and began at Penns Landing. With military precision the ship started inching away from the Camden at 12:10 as stated. It was great to watch. A cold, windy day but a perfect picture day. They turned it around quickly and were heading south in no time. I had my bike (I was taking it to my bike shop since Saturday is a was out) so I was able to keep ahead of it. All along Delaware Ave people were just parking in the middle of the road to get a look and a take picture. When you see it in the middle of the river you really get the correct scale on how huge it is! I wish there was an instant easy way to share the pictures. That ship is majestic and bad ass at the same time.

Post Pics. Figure it out grandpa.

Also IIRC the plan is to ballast in NJ then heading across the river to the Navy Yard next week.

Here's the official BB62 YT page. Tons of great videos by the main guy there and also live streaming the transit to dry dock.

 

[RUScrew85]

Yup. It was headed for Liberty State Park or the vicinity in NJ, than the South Jersey politicians swooped in.

Tell ya the truth the BB62 with the NYC skyline in the background would have been pretty awesome.

 

[Ty Webb]

I watched from the Philadelphia side and began at Penns Landing. With military precision the ship started inching away from the Camden at 12:10 as stated. It was great to watch. A cold, windy day but a perfect picture day. They turned it around quickly and were heading south in no time. I had my bike (I was taking it to my bike shop since Saturday is a was out) so I was able to keep ahead of it. All along Delaware Ave people were just parking in the middle of the road to get a look and a take picture. When you see it in the middle of the river you really get the correct scale on how huge it is! I wish there was an instant easy way to share the pictures. That ship is majestic and bad ass at the same time.

The aerial shot before she goes under the Walt Whitman really shows how massive she is.

 

[WhiteBus]

Post Pics. Figure it out grandpa.

Also IIRC the plan is to ballast in NJ then heading across the river to the Navy Yard next week.

Here's the official BB62 YT page. Tons of great videos by the main guy there and also live streaming the transit to dry dock.

View embedded media

If it takes longer to post a picture than it is to get a beer at the bar, picture posting lose every time! Lol. Especially in a packed Philly bar on the first day of the NCAA Tournament.
Yes the Paulsboro trip is to add ballast removed for permanent docking.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Yes the Paulsboro trip is to add ballast removed for permanent docking.

Sum'bitch, was down at our Paulsboro refinery on Tuesday!

 

[WhiteBus]

Sum'bitch, was down at our Paulsboro refinery on Tuesday!

It's all about the timing my friend. I just happened to be off today or I would have missed it all.

 

[Source]

Thought I'd just add this item regarding the awarding of the Congressional Gold Medal today to members of World War II's "Ghost Army" that includes two New Jersey men of the seven that still live. The Ghost Army was an amazing fake that helped confuse the Nazis in the days leading up to D Day.

Ghost Army members who deceived Nazis with battlefield ruses in WWII given Congressional Gold Medal

For decades, their mission in World War II was top secret. With inflatable tanks, trucks and planes, combined with costume uniforms and acting, American military units that became known as the Ghost Army outwitted the enemy.

apnews.com

 

[RUScrew85]

Thought I'd just add this item regarding the awarding of the Congressional Gold Medal today to members of World War II's "Ghost Army" that includes two New Jersey men of the seven that still live. The Ghost Army was an amazing fake that helped confuse the Nazis in the days leading up to D Day.

Ghost Army members who deceived Nazis with battlefield ruses in WWII given Congressional Gold Medal

For decades, their mission in World War II was top secret. With inflatable tanks, trucks and planes, combined with costume uniforms and acting, American military units that became known as the Ghost Army outwitted the enemy.

apnews.com

These guys deserve your money. Not these NIL clowns.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Thought I'd just add this item regarding the awarding of the Congressional Gold Medal today to members of World War II's "Ghost Army" that includes two New Jersey men of the seven that still live. The Ghost Army was an amazing fake that helped confuse the Nazis in the days leading up to D Day.

Ghost Army members who deceived Nazis with battlefield ruses in WWII given Congressional Gold Medal

For decades, their mission in World War II was top secret. With inflatable tanks, trucks and planes, combined with costume uniforms and acting, American military units that became known as the Ghost Army outwitted the enemy.

apnews.com

Any idea why they kept this under wraps for so long?

Their mission was kept secret for decades, but on Thursday the group stepped out of the shadows as they were awarded the Congressional Gold Medal at a ceremony in Washington.

The legislation to honor the military units with the Congressional Gold Medal — Congress’ highest honor — was signed into law by President Joe Biden in 2022. That came after almost a decade of work by family members of the soldiers and Rick Beyer, a filmmaker and author who has who helped bring their story to light after their mission was declassified in 1996.

 

[WhiteBus]

Thought I'd just add this item regarding the awarding of the Congressional Gold Medal today to members of World War II's "Ghost Army" that includes two New Jersey men of the seven that still live. The Ghost Army was an amazing fake that helped confuse the Nazis in the days leading up to D Day.

Ghost Army members who deceived Nazis with battlefield ruses in WWII given Congressional Gold Medal

For decades, their mission in World War II was top secret. With inflatable tanks, trucks and planes, combined with costume uniforms and acting, American military units that became known as the Ghost Army outwitted the enemy.

apnews.com

Patton's ghost Army.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

USS New Jersey​

The ship is the most decorated battleship in Navy history, earning distinction in World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Cold War and conflicts in the Middle East, according to its website. The ship steamed more miles, fought in more battles and fired more shells in combat than any other battleship.

 

[srru86]

If you believe most of what is in that petition I recommend you to stop drinking this morning. 🤣
Most all of that is grossly false. But it's on the Internet so it must be true.
It wasn't NJ politics. There were conditions by the Navy in allowing the Big J to become museum. One it has to be docked in NJ. Effectively eliminating NYC and Philadelphia. Second it was up to the Navy to sift through proposals by different groups to become stewards. One would be selected by the Navy. As explained here:
"The USS New Jersey Battleship Commission sought to bring the ship to northern New Jersey near New York City. The Home Port Alliance for the Battleship New Jersey sought to return the ship to Camden near Philadelphia where she had been built. The State of New Jersey agreed to back whichever group could win approval from the Navy. The Navy accepted the Home Port Alliance’s application on January 20, 2000."
Of the many factors in the choice of Camden was being close to where it was built and could be maintained and the fresh water harbor in Delaware were big factors. It's been 34 years (20 is the recommended) since the New Jersey has been dry docked. Way overdue but not being in salt water has made a big difference.
I moved to Philadelphia in 1988. It was always a big story. At the end it wasn't a surprise at all as it looked good for Camden most of the time. The announcement was exciting news to the area as well as myself.

As others have mentioned there was the element of the South Jersey politicos always insisting on getting their share.

The other piece was the NY based people behind the USS Intrepid were not interested in sharing their harbor with a competing museum ship. And they had important friends in the Navy and DC more generally.

The Philly people behind the Olympia seemingly didn't have that concern. And they definitely did not have the juice of the Fighting I group.

 

[srru86]

Any idea why they kept this under wraps for so long?

In case we wanted to pull the same stunt on the Red Army.

As a young officer in the 1980s you could see that anyone looking at the order of battle that faced off across the iron curtain knew we'd need something, anything, to level the playing field.

 

[WhiteBus]

As others have mentioned there was the element of the South Jersey politicos always insisting on getting their share.

The other piece was the NY based people behind the USS Intrepid were not interested in sharing their harbor with a competing museum ship. And they had important friends in the Navy and DC more generally.

The Philly people behind the Olympia seemingly didn't have that concern. And they definitely did not have the juice of the Fighting I group.

Explain to me how the South Jersey politicians had influence with the Navy. The Navy doesn't give a rats ass about them. They choose the spot they felt was best for THIER ship. If you want to say the Navy had a connection with the Philadelphia area because of Navy Yard and the Army Navy game I wouldn't argue that.

 

[srru86]

Explain to me how the South Jersey politicians had influence with the Navy. The Navy doesn't give a rats ass about them. They choose the spot they felt was best for THIER ship. If you want to say the Navy had a connection with the Philadelphia area because of Navy Yard and the Army Navy game I wouldn't argue that.

It was a matter of neither group was going to get anywhere if the State of NJ wasn't on board with their plan.
The Navy knew that Trenton was giving the nod to the South Jersey bid.

I'm not arguing that SJ shouldn't get it's share.

They had some functional and objective reasons as outlined above to get the bid.

The key thing the North Jersey group had was the projected number of visitors.

 

[WhiteBus]

It was a matter of neither group was going to get anywhere if the State of NJ wasn't on board with their plan.
The Navy knew that Trenton was giving the nod to the South Jersey bid.

I'm not arguing that SJ shouldn't get it's share.

They had some functional and objective reasons as outlined above to get the bid.

The key thing the North Jersey group had was the projected number of visitors.

The Navy doesn't care about local state government. And NJ Congressional makeup in DC heavily favored North Jersey led by Senator's Frank Lautenberg (Cliffside Park) and Bob Torrecelli (Englewood). Add in Christine Tood Whitman. I just think this conspiracy theory floating out there is just sour grapes.

 

[Ty Webb]

The Navy doesn't care about local state government. And NJ Congressional makeup in DC heavily favored North Jersey led by Senator's Frank Lautenberg (Cliffside Park) and Bob Torrecelli (Englewood). Add in Christine Tood Whitman. I just think this conspiracy theory floating out there is just sour grapes.

Yeah. Seems a bit odd to try to argue that it was some sort of power play by South Jersey politicos when at that time, the strength of NJs political machine was up North.

I mean you had Norcross down South but he wouldn't have had the kind of pull to get the US Navy to give the bird to the northern proposal.

 

[retired711]

I don't see a problem here. The ship was built in the Philadelphia Navy Yard, and so South Jersey is an obvious place to put it. Political influence may have played a role, but it was a more than reasonable decision.

BTW, it is true the repairs will take only a couple of months?

 

[RUScrew85]

In case we wanted to pull the same stunt on the Red Army.

As a young officer in the 1980s you could see that anyone looking at the order of battle that faced off across the iron curtain knew we'd need something, anything, to level the playing field.

It was gonna be nukes.

 

[WhiteBus]

I don't see a problem here. The ship was built in the Philadelphia Navy Yard, and so South Jersey is an obvious place to put it. Political influence may have played a role, but it was a more than reasonable decision.

BTW, it is true the repairs will take only a couple of months?

Yes. It will be in dry dock next week which fits in with the return in June to the Camden Waterfront. That's going to be a day to be on the shores and watch it come back to the dock.

 

[srru86]

It was gonna be nukes.

Yes. That's the scary part.

 

[Ty Webb]

Odd fact. Despite all being the same class, the USS New Jersey is the longest of the sister ships - Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin. It's apparently a few inches longer than the Wisconsin and Missouri.

 

[RUScrew85]