OT- Today's Anniversary. Dale Earnhardt Sr.

[WhiteBus]

Hard to believe that it's 15 years ago today, in what looked like a minor crash, Dale Earnhardt Sr was killed at the end of the Daytona 500.

NASCAR has changed and struggled since then. Still see plenty of 3 stickers on cars and pickups to this day.

Remember it was at least an hour after the crash that the news began to trickle out even though those that were first on the scene knew he was dead and had died instantly. I was a bigger NASCAR fan back then, a huge Rusty fan. And it was Rusty that Dale Sr. was trying to block on the fateful last lap. NASCAR hasn't been the same since. They lost a lot of fans in the last 15 years and Dale Sr loss is a part of it. Maybe the beginning of the downfall.


(Also, 14 years ago today Lebron James graced the cover of SI as a teenager)

 

[RUScrew85]

Hard to believe that it's 15 years ago today, in what looked like a minor crash, Dale Earnhardt Sr was killed at the end of the Daytona 500.

NASCAR has changed and struggled since then. Still see plenty of 3 stickers on cars and pickups to this day.

Remember it was at least an hour after the crash that the news began to tickle out even though those that were first on the scene knew he was dead and had died instantly. I was a bigger NASCAR fan back then, a huge Rusty fan. And it was Rusty that Dale Sr. was trying to block on the fateful last lap. NASCAR hasn't been the same since. They lost a lot of fans in the last 15 years and Dale Sr loss is a part of it. Maybe the beginning of the downfall.


(Also, 14 years ago today Lebron James graced the cover of SI as a teenager)

Daytona this weekend, right?

 

[WhiteBus]

Daytona this weekend, right?

Sunday at 1pm

 

[RUScrew85]

Ya know I think a lot of the decline of NASCAR is in the decision to all race the same car. Seems to have taken something out of the series.

 

[RU4Real]

I don't get "what looked like a minor crash", that's simply not true if you understand MVAs and mechanism of injury. I knew he was dead a soon as he hit the wall.

 

[WhiteBus]

Ya know I think a lot of the decline of NASCAR is in the decision to all race the same car. Seems to have taken something out of the series.

I think that's part of it along with trying to fit it into the mainstream media. Night races, later starts, new tracks opening and other long time venues losing races pissed a lot of the diehard fan base.

Also many fans like myself find it hard to find someone new to follow after your long time favorite retires.

 

[mildone]

Having seen so many visually wild multiple car crashes with cars flipping over and hitting the fences upside down where all the drivers walk away, that one was the epitome of unbelievable. I just couldn't believe he didn't pop out of the car and walk away.

I think the decline of the sport is that it's boring to watch cars go around in circles. It's way more technical than people realize and really, really hard to do well. But it's still boring to watch. Kind of like baseball. Fun and challenging to participate in but not exactly consistently exciting to observe.

 

[WhiteBus]

I don't get "what looked like a minor crash", that's simply not true if you understand MVAs and mechanism of injury. I knew he was dead a soon as he hit the wall.

You one of few than. We have seen that type of crash on a Nascar track a million times before with the driver walking out seconds later. Dale was not a fan of restraints and it led directly to his death. However to say that a Nascar crash is similar to regular MVA's is a stretch.

 

[mildone]

I don't get "what looked like a minor crash", that's simply not true if you understand MVAs and mechanism of injury. I knew he was dead a soon as he hit the wall.

I did not. Then again, I don't recall if I saw it live or watched replays. But in the replays, at least, I couldn't tell it was that bad a crash.

On the one hand, at that speed, any crash is non-minor to the occupant of the car. But there have been plenty of crashes at high speeds and at bad angles where the driver's brain is surely getting tossed around hard and they still manage to walk away.

 

[WhiteBus]

I did not. Then again, I don't recall if I saw it live or watched replays. But in the replays, at least, I couldn't tell it was that bad a crash.

On the one hand, at that speed, any crash is non-minor to the occupant of the car. But there have been plenty of crashes at high speeds and at bad angles where the driver's brain is surely getting tossed around hard and they still manage to walk away.

If Dale was properly restrained he would have walked away. But his harness had a lot of leeway which allowed his body to move forward at impact and than suddenly stop. Basically snapping his spine.

 

[ScarletDave]

It's true that it wasn't a bad wreck at all by today's standards. It's very sad that he died but in a way it changed the sport for the better with all the new safety technologies like the SAFER barrier designed by U of Nebraska, the HANS device for neck and head protection, and the foam and enhanced crumple zones in the car, along with seat and helmet advances. The wreck that the 3 of Austin Dillon had last year at Daytona was an unbelievable crash and the fact that he walked right out and waved to the fans was truly a testament to the safety of the sport.

 

[T2Kplus10]

You one of few than. We have seen that type of crash on a Nascar track a million times before with the driver walking out seconds later. Dale was not a fan of restraints and it led directly to his death. However to say that a Nascar crash is similar to regular MVA's is a stretch.

Can't believe it's been already 15 years. I was a huge Earnhardt fan and his death really took the joy/interest of the sport out of me (even though I do still watch from time to time and root for Dale Jr.).

The crash looked very minor to most. However, some did remember that this was very similar to how Neil Bonnett died. I believe Darryl Waltrip thought about Bonnett pretty quickly and was concerned (not sure if he mentioned this on air or not, I don't think he did). The sad thing is, if Daytona had the softer barrier up, Dale likely would have been okay. And of course, the HANS device would have saved his life as well.

What really bothered me was that Daytona was being pushed to put up the safer barriers and was resisting. In my mind, Dale's death was unnecessary and do to people not doing the right thing.

And I know it wasn't intentional, but I still can look at Sterling Marlin without getting upset.

 

[mildone]

If Dale was properly restrained he would have walked away. But his harness had a lot of leeway which allowed his body to move forward at impact and than suddenly stop. Basically snapping his spine.

That would do it. Although the official cause of death would appear to be head trauma.

 

[WhiteBus]

That would do it. Although the official cause of death would appear to be head trauma.

Essentially he was decapitated. "Ring fracture at the base of the skull"

 

[RU4Real]

He hit the wall almost head-on at 170+ mph. The fact that there was little damage to the car relative to the various other "pieces a-flyin'" NASCAR accidents was the immediate tell-tale sign. Energy goes somewhere. If the car doesn't dissipate it, then the occupants will.

My wife, oldest daughter and I were watching the race live. When Dale hit the wall I said, "Holy shit... he's dead."

The after-crash images of the car with the entire front-end squarely compromised tells you everything you need to know.

 

[knightfan7]

I remember the crash and remember not thinking it was bad because the announcers weren't worried. I was shocked when it was reported he died.

Ricky Craven who raced that day said this morning he didn't think much about it when it happened till he got "the call" while waiting for his plane ride home.

I think we all got jaded by seeing drivers hop out of their cars after what appears at first glance to be much worse crashes.

 

[Babybull244]

A badass American.

RIP

 

[mildone]

Went back and watched some replays of the crash.

What's hard to tell, from the TV replay footage, is how much the car was moving forwards versus sideways as it struck the wall. But it's an optical illusion. There are some videos up on YouTube from different angles than what's shown on the TV coverage. One shows things more clearly.

Prior to impact, the car had turned sideways and scrubbed a bit of speed off, as did the initial contact with Schrader. But then as the cars shift a bit, Scrader's car's momentum just adds energy in and actually adds speed to Earnhardt's car just prior to hitting the wall head first.

So watching again, it's easier for me to understand the violence of the crash.

 

[famousbill19]

I, too, was a big NASCAR fan at the time (season tickets at Dover, watched most races on TV), though not a Dale Sr./Jr. fan. Still remember the overhead helicopter shot of Dale Jr. running into the hospital.

I agree that his death contributed to the downward slide of NASCAR in terms of fan interest, but it has not been helped by the poor (unwatchable) TV announcers, too many commercials, and lack of continuity in rules and race teams.

That being said, I would recommend to any sports fan that you attend a race live. If you think it is just going around in circles, think again.

 

[KaKaKen]

I didn't even know he was dead.

 

[mildone]

That being said, I would recommend to any sports fan that you attend a race live. If you think it is just going around in circles, think again.

What is it about being there live that makes driving around in a circle not going around in circles? Or are you just talking about all the hoopla surrounding the race, as opposed to the race itself?

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm a Formula One junkie and that's basically watching cars going around in circles but with more corners (and more varied corners) thrown in for good measure. So I get why people might like it.

For me, the technical aspects involved in all the different corners in F1 is more entertaining to watch than the technical aspects involved in going fast around a track with fewer corners like NASCAR or Indy oval racing. But it's still just cars going around in circles.

So I also totally understand when people have no interest (or lose interest).

 

[RUJMM78]

Having seen so many visually wild multiple car crashes with cars flipping over and hitting the fences upside down where all the drivers walk away, that one was the epitome of unbelievable. I just couldn't believe he didn't pop out of the car and walk away.

I think the decline of the sport is that it's boring to watch cars go around in circles. It's way more technical than people realize and really, really hard to do well. But it's still boring to watch. Kind of like baseball. Fun and challenging to participate in but not exactly consistently exciting to observe.

Baseball is a lot more exciting than watching a soccer match where the score could be 0-0.

 

[WhiteBus]

What is it about being there live that makes driving around in a circle not going around in circles? Or are you just talking about all the hoopla surrounding the race, as opposed to the race itself?

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm a Formula One junkie and that's basically watching cars going around in circles but with more corners (and more varied corners) thrown in for good measure. So I get why people might like it.

For me, the technical aspects involved in all the different corners in F1 is more entertaining to watch than the technical aspects involved in going fast around a track with fewer corners like NASCAR or Indy oval racing. But it's still just cars going around in circles.

So I also totally understand when people have no interest (or lose interest).

TV is horrible in presenting two things. Speed and sound. Two things that will blow your mind at a live NASCAR race.
You will never understand until you go.

 

[mildone]

Baseball is a lot more exciting than watching a soccer match where the score could be 0-0.

Not even close.

Some soccer matches, even higher scoring ones, can be totally boring. But when the level of play is high (most Euro Championship games, for instance), it's like watching 22 Michael Jordan's all at the same time. The level of technical mastery combined with the level of tactical maneuvering makes the game totally brilliant.

It's only when one team gets more than a few goals lead that it gets boring because then the winning team can usually just sit back and defend their own half at which point the game loses it's edge even with great teams.

Granted, American soccer is pretty boring because the level of play is pretty bad, relatively speaking.

Conversely, there's an excellent reason why baseball is so big on stats. Fans need something to focus on since there's often so little going on on the field of play. So they focus on stats. Or, if watching on TV, they focus on taking naps. Pitch, catch, pitch, catch. Yawn.

If they want to make baseball a good spectator sport, they should have a pitch clock that's like 5 seconds tops along with making the ball a little bigger so there are more hits. When something actually happens in baseball, it's a fine sport to watch. But we're talking what, 3% of the actual game time? Most of the time it's talking and scratching balls and spitting. What a game.

It IS lots of fun to play though.

 

[famousbill19]

What is it about being there live that makes driving around in a circle not going around in circles? Or are you just talking about all the hoopla surrounding the race, as opposed to the race itself?

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm a Formula One junkie and that's basically watching cars going around in circles but with more corners (and more varied corners) thrown in for good measure. So I get why people might like it.

For me, the technical aspects involved in all the different corners in F1 is more entertaining to watch than the technical aspects involved in going fast around a track with fewer corners like NASCAR or Indy oval racing. But it's still just cars going around in circles.

So I also totally understand when people have no interest (or lose interest).

For me it is not just watching the race- it is the sounds, the smells, the fear for drivers safety that becomes very real when you are there in person. I remember the first time I stepped out onto the track at Dover and saw a car dive into a corner at speed- I could not believe anyone could be that crazy. Put 42 other cars nose-to-tail, pure insanity.

I enjoy F1 as well for the technical aspects as you mentioned, but I have found too often the winner is determined in the first corner (a broad generalization, I realize). I prefer more side-by-side racing, which is yet another problem with NASCAR with some of the 1+ mile tracks (e.g. Michigan). At those tracks, I completely agree the racing can be mind-numbingly boring.

 

[mildone]

TV is horrible in presenting two things. Speed and sound. Two things that will blow your mind at a live NASCAR race.
You will never understand until you go.

I've been to races, both Indy (at Pocono, so not unlike NASCAR, track-wise) and F1. My dream vacation is traveling to all ~20 F1 races for an entire season. I might skip a couple (Korea springs to mind) because they are in the middle of nowhere and are kind of boring tracks.

So I understand how TV doesn't do it justice.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Ya know I think a lot of the decline of NASCAR is in the decision to all race the same car. Seems to have taken something out of the series.

That's part of it.

In talking with the folks on my muscle car boards, one of the things they lament is the fact that the cars that are raced bear no resemblance to the supposedly stock cars they refer to. The whole idea of "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" is essentially dead.

Also, NASCAR, like so many other ventures, thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread and tried to expand their brand all over the place. It didn't work, and it provoked a backlash in some areas. Plus I think they spread themselves too thin.

 

[knightfan7]

TV is horrible in presenting two things. Speed and sound. Two things that will blow your mind at a live NASCAR race.
You will never understand until you go.

At least the networks have tried to show the speed with the lower cameras and trackside mic's. Still I assume it'll never come close to seeing it in person.

Just think about standing at the edge of the GSP and watching cars go by you at 70mph. Then think about these cars going bumper to bumper almost 3 times faster. Must be a sight.

 

[batts]

I don't get "what looked like a minor crash", that's simply not true if you understand MVAs and mechanism of injury. I knew he was dead a soon as he hit the wall.

 

[RU4Real]

That's part of it.

In talking with the folks on my muscle car boards, one of the things they lament is the fact that the cars that are raced bear no resemblance to the supposedly stock cars they refer to. The whole idea of "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" is essentially dead.

I probably watch more IMSA than NASCAR for that very reason.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

TV is horrible in presenting two things. Speed and sound. Two things that will blow your mind at a live NASCAR race. You will never understand until you go.

So true. I've been a NASCAR fan for decades. I've been in a NASCAR fantasy league for over 20 years. Big party on Sunday to commence the season!

This past fall, my brother and I were planning to go to Daytona this year. We want to see the massive overhaul of the facility. (Link below.) However, we changed our plans and decided to go to Phoenix (a track we've never been to) instead next month when it was announced Springsteen is playing three days before the race. Also, it'll give us a chance to attend a few Cactus League spring training games.

http://racing.ap.org/article/rising-occasion-daytonas-overhaul-ready-debut

 

[famousbill19]

Not even close.

Some soccer matches, even higher scoring ones, can be totally boring. But when the level of play is high (most Euro Championship games, for instance), it's like watching 22 Michael Jordan's all at the same time. The level of technical mastery combined with the level of tactical maneuvering makes the game totally brilliant.

It's only when one team gets more than a few goals lead that it gets boring because then the winning team can usually just sit back and defend their own half at which point the game loses it's edge even with great teams.

Granted, American soccer is pretty boring because the level of play is pretty bad, relatively speaking.

Conversely, there's an excellent reason why baseball is so big on stats. Fans need something to focus on since there's often so little going on on the field of play. So they focus on stats. Or, if watching on TV, they focus on taking naps. Pitch, catch, pitch, catch. Yawn.

If they want to make baseball a good spectator sport, they should have a pitch clock that's like 5 seconds tops along with making the ball a little bigger so there are more hits. When something actually happens in baseball, it's a fine sport to watch. But we're talking what, 3% of the actual game time? Most of the time it's talking and scratching balls and spitting. What a game.

It IS lots of fun to play though.

Agree with most of your points with the exception of American soccer being boring because the level of play is pretty bad. Is MLS as good as EPL? Of course not. But I have been to many Red Bulls games (and for that matter, my kids rec soccer games), even some 0-0 games, that were damn exciting because I care for the team.

 

[Tango Two]

Hard to believe that it's 15 years ago today, in what looked like a minor crash, Dale Earnhardt Sr was killed at the end of the Daytona 500.

NASCAR has changed and struggled since then. Still see plenty of 3 stickers on cars and pickups to this day.

Remember it was at least an hour after the crash that the news began to trickle out even though those that were first on the scene knew he was dead and had died instantly. I was a bigger NASCAR fan back then, a huge Rusty fan. And it was Rusty that Dale Sr. was trying to block on the fateful last lap. NASCAR hasn't been the same since. They lost a lot of fans in the last 15 years and Dale Sr loss is a part of it. Maybe the beginning of the downfall.


(Also, 14 years ago today Lebron James graced the cover of SI as a teenager)

Minor crash?

 

[RU85inFla]

Heading to tonight's races right now. Got my cooler.

 

[mildone]

For me it is not just watching the race- it is the sounds, the smells, the fear for drivers safety that becomes very real when you are there in person. I remember the first time I stepped out onto the track at Dover and saw a car dive into a corner at speed- I could not believe anyone could be that crazy. Put 42 other cars nose-to-tail, pure insanity.

I enjoy F1 as well for the technical aspects as you mentioned, but I have found too often the winner is determined in the first corner (a broad generalization, I realize). I prefer more side-by-side racing, which is yet another problem with NASCAR with some of the 1+ mile tracks (e.g. Michigan). At those tracks, I completely agree the racing can be mind-numbingly boring.

Agree completely about the short tracks.

And yeah, F1 is a bit broken at the moment. But I think they're working pretty hard on fixing things. I hate that that did away with the V8 engines. Those things were so freaking loud that ear-plugs were simply a requirement - nobody could be anywhere near the track without them without being in pain. The sound was a huge aspect of the event. While I get the motivations for the new turbo engine spec, I think too much was lost in the engine noise department.

Supposedly they're working on that. We'll see.

 

[Babybull244]

Dover is a good place to see a race - Pocono sucks - too big poor sight lines.
imo

Would like to make it to Bristol one day.

 

[mildone]

I probably watch more IMSA than NASCAR for that very reason.

IMSA events are typically much more interesting to me than NASCAR. Lots of variety. The tracks are more interesting. For many of them, there's a much clearer connection w/the base cars upon which the race cars are built.

 

[WhiteBus]

Minor crash?

By NASCAR standards yes. You are the one in need of the facepalm! You obviously not a fan.

 

[Zombo NJ]

Had a time where I got into racing pretty good..

Never a 3 fan but was always a huge plus when he was out there...liked F1 a lot too

Maybe age but way down on it...F1 is awful...feel like I can watch 1st lap and come back
2 hours later to see that leader spray champagne...

Nascar don't know...just lost it's appeal...3 was part of that...how a guy can miss over
10 races but win title is lost on me...I get changing it but feels like the rules are always
in flux...

and back to the crash...saw it but didn't register until Waltrip said while celebrating his
brothers win that he hoped 3 was ok...that gave me a bad feeling

not sure there is a fix but keep trying at least for both

 

[mildone]

Agree with most of your points with the exception of American soccer being boring because the level of play is pretty bad. Is MLS as good as EPL? Of course not. But I have been to many Red Bulls games (and for that matter, my kids rec soccer games), even some 0-0 games, that were damn exciting because I care for the team.

I'm a total soccer snob. I can't stand watching games where the players have anything less than perfect individual skills. The games can be interesting if one has a vested interest (e.g. you being a fan of the Red Bulls). But I just can't sit through most of the MLS games - it's like watching NBA players missing layups.

In soccer, winning the games is critically important. But some of the best games ever are scoreless. There's no explaining that to some people though. People who think a sport can't be good unless there's lots of scoring are the same people who think finishing in less than a minute is good sex. [laughing]