OT: Wall Stadium speedway to close next year, replaced by affordable housing, townhouses

[T2Kplus10]

That seems very high.

In Montgomery Twp, for an example you are familiar with, there are 8062 housing units and 6072 children in the age range of 5 to 19. That is about 0.75 school-aged kids per housing unit. Statewide, it is 0.47 school-aged kids per housing unit.

That's not the right metric, and I think is was calculated by builders, which includes everything.....retirement/age restricted communities, etc. The number I cite comes from the NJLM and covers new market rate construction in NJ. The number is normally on the higher side of the range for cluster units and lower for single family homes.

 

[Zak57]

Speaking of that Country Club development they built off 206 is awful for the price point they are selling them at. 800K+ for house right on top of each other with no yard. Straight garbage.

 

[knightfan7]

The town should purchase it at FMV. Take control of the land and what happens to it. Cluster housing is bad news. More traffic and higher taxes to all.

8 months a year traffic in the area is minimal. Like the idea in general if you can trust local politicians to do what is best.

You know how they are:Wink:

 

[hoquat63]

My last kid graduated high school 22 years ago, still paying taxes to support schools in the town. (I suspect if you do the math and calculated inflation I still need to pay a few more years to pay back what it cost for my three kids.) Also paid taxes 5 years bc in a town where I never had kids in school

 

[T2Kplus10]

Speaking of that Country Club development they built off 206 is awful for the price point they are selling them at. 800K+ for house right on top of each other with no yard. Straight garbage.

Those are patio homes with little yard. 80% of the development are normal 1/3-1/2 acre lots. That land has a long, long history, if you are interested. It's starts in the late 70s/early 80s with the land being targeted by the county for a new waste incinerator/transfer station (i.e., garbage dump) and ending with 142 single family homes after being sued by a developer that wanted to build 900+ housing units (Pike Run 2). At the end of the day, we won.

 

[T2Kplus10]

8 months a year traffic in the area is minimal. Like the idea in general if you can trust local politicians to do what is best.

You know how they are:Wink:

Now this is very true. You normally don't want towns too involved in items like this, unless your town has exceptional representation!

 

[knightfan7]

Now this is very true. You normally don't want towns too involved in items like this, unless your town has exceptional representation!

Know any in particular?

 

[T2Kplus10]

Know any in particular?

One town comes to mind in southern Somerset County. 23,000'ish residents, 32 sq miles, #1 rated for families in the state (see below), almost 40% of the town is preserved/protected open space (green acres or farmland preservation), 11 public parks, top 75 safest towns in the US for 4 years in a row, smart commercial growth bringing in Whole Foods and several other high quality services, top ten public school district, etc.
:)
https://www.njfamily.com/new-jerseys-best-towns-for-families-the-list-2019/

 

[srru86]

Growing up there it took me a while to realize that a distant growling roar was not the sound of everyone's Summer Saturday evenings.

Didn't really mind - was used to it.
How often does the train go by? - So often you won't even notice it.

rather NIMBY of me, but have to admit, if I lived there now I'd certainly prefer the noise to the hundreds of new neighbors and traffic.

 

[knightfan7]

One town comes to mind in southern Somerset County. 23,000'ish residents, 32 sq miles, #1 rated for families in the state (see below), almost 40% of the town is preserved/protected open space (green acres or farmland preservation), 11 public parks, top 75 safest towns in the US for 4 years in a row, smart commercial growth bringing in Whole Foods and several other high quality services, top ten public school district, etc.
:)
https://www.njfamily.com/new-jerseys-best-towns-for-families-the-list-2019/

Really liked living in Somerset (The Hills). When family came along had to cut bait and find a bigger place. 4 BR Colonials in Western Morris was much more in the price range.

 

[NotInRHouse]

COAH does not = affordable.

What happens is the builder sets aside a number of units as affordable under prior rules - to make up the difference in cost the market units are priced to support the cost.

The rules prior to when Christie effectively killed COAH was one in four houses in a development is required to be designated as affordable.

Currently there are no firm rules under COAH (due to the Christie squash) - but towns are trying to comply with previous rules - that is why Wall wants a higher % of affordable houses.

The free market would make housing realistically MORE affordable - but the insane COAH rules and court rulings have the opposite effect.

Developers are not going to build affordable housing out of the goodness of their hearts.

For example I know of a bunch of affordable unit designations in Monmouth County where the units cost 100k. You're not going to find a market rate unit in that area for the cost. Where do we want our low wage earners to live?

 

[NotInRHouse]

So few in NJ understand the Mount Laurel decisions.

First NJ Supreme Court found towns could not zone out affordable housing (eg, Mt Laurel at the time didn't zone for apartments, and with only say, 1 acre zoning, it was unrealistic to think affordable housing would be developed).

Flash forward a few years. Towns including Mt Laurel do nothing to change zoning. NJ Supreme Court rules in Mount Laurel 2, which provides the builder's remedy.

The builder's remedy allows developers to sue if they plan for affordable housing and towns deny the zoning without good reason.

"Wah wah I like my Raceway" is not good reason.

Bottom line is some towns want to have teachers, restaurants, commercial space...and feel like their employees should work elsewhere.

That is why the NJ Supreme Court did what it did.

If the 565 municipalities acted less like fiefs trying to keep people out, we would not be having this discussion. New York for example has mostly rejected the Mount Laurel doctrine on a statewide basis.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Another piece of shore history gone. Shame.
https://www.app.com/story/news/loca...y-stadium-closing-results-weather/1814369001/

WALL - The checkered flag will wave for the final time at the Wall Stadium speedway next year, track owners announced Wednesday.
The 2020 racing season will be the last for the nearly 70-year-old racetrack, owner Wall Speedway Properties LLC announced on Wednesday. Developer Pulte Homes plans to build nearly 350 homes on the site, which has hosted auto racing in some form since 1950.
"The majority of the sprawling tract, deemed grossly underutilized for decades, consists of giant parking lots

Awesome. I'd like to buy one if the amenities in the community check out. Great location to Uber from Asbury to Point to all the main spots, everything maintained for you, and a win for you locals as I'd have to pay taxes but would put no kids in the schools.

 

[e5fdny]

So few in NJ understand the Mount Laurel decisions.

First NJ Supreme Court found towns could not zone out affordable housing (eg, Mt Laurel at the time didn't zone for apartments, and with only say, 1 acre zoning, it was unrealistic to think affordable housing would be developed).

Flash forward a few years. Towns including Mt Laurel do nothing to change zoning. NJ Supreme Court rules in Mount Laurel 2, which provides the builder's remedy.

The builder's remedy allows developers to sue if they plan for affordable housing and towns deny the zoning without good reason.

"Wah wah I like my Raceway" is not good reason.

Bottom line is some towns want to have teachers, restaurants, commercial space...and feel like their employees should work elsewhere.

That is why the NJ Supreme Court did what it did.

If the 565 municipalities acted less like fiefs trying to keep people out, we would not be having this discussion. New York for example has mostly rejected the Mount Laurel doctrine on a statewide basis.

If a town is already built out why should it forced to forced to do this?

If there is truly no room at the inn, why be told you have to build a new one?

 

[T2Kplus10]

If a town is already built out why should it forced to forced to do this?

If there is truly no room at the inn, why be told you have to build a new one?

Because greedy Trenton special interests pay good money to state politicians to make towns do so.
#thejerseyway

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Hopefully Martin Truex Jr. and other local and national drivers can at least come out against it in the media. Tony Stewart bought a dirt track in Indiana. If the current owners could work something out with Martin and do not just want the biggest check they can get, who knows, maybe it can be saved before it is too late.

 

[NotInRHouse]

If a town is already built out why should it forced to forced to do this?

If there is truly no room at the inn, why be told you have to build a new one?

Define "built out." It sure as hell does not include Wall. They wouldn't even allow Route 18 to be expanded to the former Brielle Circle.

Most of the towns actually built out in the urban core do not hem and haw about this. In Jersey City it's encouraged.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

affordable housing law is doing a lot more harm than good. It is a classic case of something that only sounds good as a polítical talking point but in the real world it is a overwhelming failure and shouldn't have never happen.

 

[Knight Shift]

Define "built out." It sure as hell does not include Wall. They wouldn't even allow Route 18 to be expanded to the former Brielle Circle.

Most of the towns actually built out in the urban core do not hem and haw about this. In Jersey City it's encouraged.

Logical fallacy. Nothing in Monmouth County is remotely like Jersey City, thankfully. We like our open space, moderate traffic, clean air, and genteel residents.
Build some more high rises in Jersey City. And go to the Long Island beaches, please.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Logical fallacy. Nothing in Monmouth County is remotely like Jersey City, thankfully. We like our open space, moderate traffic, clean air, and genteel residents.
Build some more high rises in Jersey City. And go to the Long Island beaches, please.

Uh Asbury is our own little piece, lol. And come tomorrow there will be more people from Hoboken in Squan then full timers.

This townhouse development does not impact any of that. NIMBYism is stupid. This isn't open space it's literally already paved. It's next to a major junction where commuters will board a highway in 2 minutes. The last two bear no relation.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Logical fallacy. Nothing in Monmouth County is remotely like Jersey City, thankfully. We like our open space, moderate traffic, clean air, and genteel residents.
Build some more high rises in Jersey City. And go to the Long Island beaches, please.

Amen!
[cheers]

 

[e5fdny]

Define "built out." It sure as hell does not include Wall. They wouldn't even allow Route 18 to be expanded to the former Brielle Circle.

Wasn’t really talking about Wall. But any local jurisdiction (including a Wall or Howell) should be able to decide what they want build with regard to residential housing.

A view with a tree or the Ocean is not a right.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Wasn’t really talking about Wall. But any local jurisdiction (including a Wall or Howell) should be able to decide what they want build with regard to residential housing.

A view with a tree or the Ocean is not a right.

Home rule, what a great and novel concept. :)
Plenty of places to live if you don't like a particular town.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Trivia question—without looking it up, what pro sports team played at Wall Stadium and then at Rutgers Stadium? Residents of Wall can not win the grand prize of the best steak dinner at The RAC.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Trivia question—without looking it up, what pro sports team played at Wall Stadium and then at Rutgers Stadium? Residents of Wall can not win the grand prize of the best steak dinner at The RAC.

USFL team?

 

[e5fdny]

Semi-pro football? Jersey Oaks or Rams.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Nope and nope

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Another piece of shore history gone. Shame.
https://www.app.com/story/news/loca...y-stadium-closing-results-weather/1814369001/

WALL - The checkered flag will wave for the final time at the Wall Stadium speedway next year, track owners announced Wednesday.
The 2020 racing season will be the last for the nearly 70-year-old racetrack, owner Wall Speedway Properties LLC announced on Wednesday. Developer Pulte Homes plans to build nearly 350 homes on the site, which has hosted auto racing in some form since 1950.
"The majority of the sprawling tract, deemed grossly underutilized for decades, consists of giant parking lots

That sucks.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

This is a loss to many. Another affordable entertainment option gone for families. Joins Jungle Habitat, Trenton Speedway,Palisades Amusement Park,etc. If the Speedway is going to close down, rip up the pavement and let it turn back into green space. No more condos, apartments,stores, we have more than enough.I am all for a lower population in New Jersey-way too many people for the amount of land. Heck, I will even help people pack.

home ownership is immigration.

once you're in, you want the door closed behind you. (but definitely not before of course).

that said, i wonder how they define "affordable".

 

[NotInRHouse]

Wasn’t really talking about Wall. But any local jurisdiction (including a Wall or Howell) should be able to decide what they want build with regard to residential housing.

A view with a tree or the Ocean is not a right.

Sure. Let's imagine you're teacher early in your career. You grew up in Wall or Howell. You want to move back there. Where are you going to live?

Growing up there was so much NIMBY nonsense. Until the locals wanted their kids to move nearby, and they could not afford it, and the ones who could decided not to return.

I agree there should be modifications but I have no issue with towns with the space- which that area has- being told they cannot outzone smaller homes.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Home rule is a great concept, if you think Sea Girt should have its own police dept where they pay millions in a lawsuit for mocking a guy for being a veteran.

Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. That is the way to lower taxes, and then build so folks can come back there.

 

[retired711]

The COAH housing mandate is a blight on the state. Pave over everything! The special interest group leading that way is funded by.....wait for it.....developers! Wonder why?

The town should fight this and delay it as long as possible. Protect the town.

COAH is defunct, and has been for four years. Instead it's the courts that determine how much affordable housing each town must have. At least get your enemies right.

 

[T2Kplus10]

COAH is defunct, and has been for four years. Instead it's the courts that determine how much affordable housing each town must have. At least get your enemies right.

It's all the same enemy - overreaching judges, Trenton special interests, developers, stupid legislators. Absolutely no differences, just one big incestuous group.

 

[RU_Planning]

The COAH housing mandate is a blight on the state. Pave over everything! The special interest group leading that way is funded by.....wait for it.....developers! Wonder why?

The town should fight this and delay it as long as possible. Protect the town.

Protect the town from what?

 

[RU_Planning]

I'm not at all familiar with the area, but everyone complaining about"paving over the state" seems to be ignoring the fact that that parcel is already mostly "sprawling parking lots."

NIMBYs don’t care for facts, they rely on emotion and political activism.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Protect the town from what?

The negative quality of life consequences from over-development and cluster housing.

 

[RU_Planning]

What would you suggest be done with the property? Should the owners of the track be forced to keep it open?

I've got it! How about a taxpayer subsidy so that it's worthwhile for the track to continue operation.

It will be interesting to see what an alleged small government conservative thinks should be done. The correct answer of course would be whatever the market calls for....

 

[e5fdny]

Sure. Let's imagine you're teacher early in your career. You grew up in Wall or Howell. You want to move back there. Where are you going to live?

Growing up there was so much NIMBY nonsense. Until the locals wanted their kids to move nearby, and they could not afford it, and the ones who could decided not to return.

I agree there should be modifications but I have no issue with towns with the space- which that area has- being told they cannot outzone smaller homes.

Where I can afford?

It's not the govt's job to find me a home or a place to live. It's mine.

 

[RU_Planning]

The town should purchase it at FMV. Take control of the land and what happens to it. Cluster housing is bad news. More traffic and higher taxes to all.

Communism.

 

[e5fdny]

Home rule is a great concept, if you think Sea Girt should have its own police dept where they pay millions in a lawsuit for mocking a guy for being a veteran.

Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. That is the way to lower taxes, and then build so folks can come back there.

I can see that part, the consolidation for service and schools...which in theory should lower my taxes.

But how does it lower property values with most home are thisclose to the Ocean?