OT: Work Advice... Salary Increases

[PeteGiam07]

Ok, to start off this is for my fiance who works a ridiculous amount of hours as a manager in the food and beverage industry at a Hotel so any useful advice would be appreciated.

She was promised an increase in salary of 6K this April and only ended up getting less than 2K. Mind you, She works extremely long hours, never takes off, and is willing to wake up at 5AM to take the early morning shifts. She is not the type to complain at work and believes people should work hard, but I encouraged her to find out why her boss's boss would tell her around Christmas time she was getting that amount of a raise and it just didn't happen.

This raise was supposed to be a transition due to a new manager overtime law that hasn't gone into effect yet but it directly relates to her due to her being a manager and NOT eligible for overtime.

Long story short not only is she not getting the raise she was promised, but they are completely denying they said anything to her about giving her a raise of that number. They are telling her she "made that number up", meanwhile it is the minimum number that will be going into effect if the new overtime law goes into effect. They were the ones that explained this new law to her and how the place has to start adjusting salaries for it and now they deny it.

Has anyone ever dealt with something like this? To make things worse her HR department does not stick up for their employees and she is convinced the company will force her to resign if she goes that route.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Ok, to start off this is for my fiance who works a ridiculous amount of hours as a manager in the food and beverage industry at a Hotel so any useful advice would be appreciated.

She was promised an increase in salary of 6K this April and only ended up getting less than 2K. Mind you, She works extremely long hours, never takes off, and is willing to wake up at 5AM to take the early morning shifts. She is not the type to complain at work and believes people should work hard, but I encouraged her to find out why her boss's boss would tell her around Christmas time she was getting that amount of a raise and it just didn't happen.

This raise was supposed to be a transition due to a new manager overtime law that hasn't gone into effect yet but it directly relates to her due to her being a manager and NOT eligible for overtime.

Long story short not only is she not getting the raise she was promised, but they are completely denying they said anything to her about giving her a raise of that number. They are telling her she "made that number up", meanwhile it is the minimum number that will be going into effect if the new overtime law goes into effect. They were the ones that explained this new law to her and how the place has to start adjusting salaries for it and now they deny it.

Has anyone ever dealt with something like this? To make things worse her HR department does not stick up for their employees and she is convinced the company will force her to resign if she goes that route.

If she didn't get it in writing she basically screwed. I would say it a tough lesson but get everything in writing. Even a simple follow email. You can talk to an employment attorney but I doubt your are going to get anywhere. It her word against theirs. Even if you would press it legally then you probably would have a hostile work relationship. I would have her put together a list of reason she feels she deserves the raise and approach it that way. Not just because you told me and the law is changing. It may be time to start looking elsewhere.

 

[PeteGiam07]

If she didn't get it in writing she basically screwed. I would say it a tough lesson but get everything in writing. Even a simple follow email. You can talk to an employment attorney but I doubt your are going to get anywhere. It her word against theirs. Even if you would press it legally then you probably would have a hostile work relationship. I would have her put together a list of reason she feels she deserves the raise and approach it that way. Not just because you told me and the law is changing. It may be time to start looking elsewhere.

I agree, it seems crazy to me they did this to her and originally told it to her on Christmas day when she, you know, worked a shift no one would work.

 

[RUskoolie]

Switch companies. Stay loyal to the dollar and nothing else. I just jumped ship this year after being in a similar situation. Old company gave me a 10% raise and told me that was really competitive and industry standard. I left a month later to a different company for a 35% raise.

 

[imbazza2]

Christmas time#1 and get big offer #2 and promises #3. Sound more like some one was trying to get into her pants. MEN are such pigs. If it was a woman making verbose offer time to find a new job. and having family in the Hotel food service they treat you like dogs. move on

 

[FanuSanu52]

Sounds like they had a pow-wow with legal and figured out a new interpretation or way of skirting the law.

I did deal with something related, but don't have much positive advice beyond, 'start looking for new jobs'. That was easier for me because it was a college job, not a job I relied on for everyday expenses. They gave me one rate when I was hired, then my paychecks came in at like a dollar less/hr. So, of course, I said "WTF is this," and after shuffling me between layers of management, they suddenly made up some "probationary period" that I supposedly had to go through before getting the full amount. Of course, they never said anything like that on hire, so it was a bullshit excuse for why they'd continue paying less.

I eventually put that on the back burner and turned more attention to getting discounted merchandise, which was more of why I took the job in the first place, not to get rich, (probably should have just stolen some stuff since they were stealing from me, but I am generally too honest for that). Then I left the job within a couple months, which is really your fiance's only move. If it's not in writing, she doesn't have much of a case to say they promised - and even if they did promise, if it's not in writing, it really doesn't matter.

 

[jmc11201]

Agree with skoolie. Sounds like she is a great worker and very valuable to her current employer, but if they won't recognize her value, she should look elsewhere. I guarantee if she puts in her notice because she found a better job, that they would find the extra cash...but the burden is on her, it appears, to make the first move.

For me to ever see material jumps in pay, I've had to make a move (which is why I now live in Minnesota! :)).

 

[MADHAT1]

Your fiance should start looking for another job, but not let her employer know how dissatisfied she is working for them after being lied to .
If lied to, then you can expect everything done for the company isn't appreciated and your finance is just a disposable employee to them.
She should consider them just a means to an end and the end is a company to work for that your finance can trust better and have an honest opportunity to earn more and/or move into a higher position without the distrust your finance should be feeling about the company that lied the amount of raise that would be given.

But that's only my opinion and what your finance does wind up doing won't be affecting me,your finance will pay the price or gain the satisfaction if my advice is acted upon..

 

[rutger80]

Their reasoning doesn't matter at this point. Sounds like there is irreparable damage and like other posters say, it's probably time to start looking elsewhere. She should find something new, while she is still employed there.

 

[PeteGiam07]

Their reasoning doesn't matter at this point. Sounds like there is irreparable damage and like other posters say, it's probably time to start looking elsewhere. She should find something new, while she is still employed there.

She will be doing this. Like I said she works hard and she just happened to get calls from recruiters today and already has a job interviews tomorrow and thursday lined up.

 

[imbazza2]

She will be doing this. Like I said she works hard and she just happened to get calls from recruiters today and already has a job interviews tomorrow and thursday lined up.

Good move and do not take anything less then a 10%-20% raise as like the other company will make idle promise as well

 

[RUforester72]

Integrity in an employer or supervisor counts! Time to leave that job.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Can't add anything but reiterate what was said above: at this point she should have no loyalty to the company and look for work elsewhere. Going the employment attorney route is a fruitless effort and will dog her going forward. And if HR is a lapdog, then going to them will make things infinitely worse.

 

[RU4Real]

The first rule of the hospitality industry is that it sucks.

 

[RaySt]

Your fiancé definitely learned something about her employer. Not much sense in pressing the issue with them as it will likely only damage her own position in the company. My best advice is take what she has learned, work the job with integrity and start planning an exit strategy while not risking her current paycheck.

There may be good reasons she would rather stay and those are important but stay or go she knows the table is tilted to manage (Usually is but more so here) and she should use that knowledge to guide her. Best of luck to her. I'm sure there are employers who would appreciate such a hard worker.

 

[rutgersdave]

The first rule of the hospitality industry is that it sucks.

If she is able and is starting to look for other opportunities, she should look into maybe other openings in other industries. The hospitality industry I believe is not well compensated and getting into another industry would be well worth it especially in the long term. I know someone in the hospitality industry.

 

[Upstream]

She . . . up.

You better hope her boss doesn't read this board.

 

[RU4Real]

If she is able and is starting to look for other opportunities, she should look into maybe other openings in other industries. The hospitality industry I believe is not well compensated and getting into another industry would be well worth it especially in the long term. I know someone in the hospitality industry.

I started out in food service. I think all young people should do two things with their lives - a stint in the military and a few years in food service. Both of them teach you serious work ethic. The military teaches you hard work, discipline and attention to detail. The food service industry teaches you... well, those things, too.

 

[LC-88]

and patience.

 

[RU4Real]

and patience.

The military teaches patience.

Food service, not so much. The opposite side of the patience coin is "throwing shit across the kitchen".

 

[PeteGiam07]

You better hope her boss doesn't read this board.

Relationship is broken at this point as trust was lost. He should feel terrible treating employees like that.

 

[RU848789]

I started out in food service. I think all young people should do two things with their lives - a stint in the military and a few years in food service. Both of them teach you serious work ethic. The military teaches you hard work, discipline and attention to detail. The food service industry teaches you... well, those things, too.

Spent 2 years in HS working in a moderately high end restaurant - first year as the lowest form of humanity, a dishwasher, and the second year as a food prep guy who helped the chefs. I learned one thing: I didn't ever want to work in the food industry for a living, lol.

Actually, it wasn't that bad, since we supplied the chefs with their dope (so they didn't have to go out and buy it) and in exchange we ate really well at work and got free drinks after work. Occasionally, I'd even bring home a case of lobsters or some prime rib for the family.

Being a dishwasher was hard, nasty work, though - I remember my hands being all nicked up (from encounters with silverware) and raw at the end of the night. Food prep was more fun, helping the chefs make big batches of their various sauces and making all the salads (they pre-made them).

 

[rutgersal]

OP. All your fiance is owed is an explanation by her boss's boss, nothing more, nothing less.

She should approach her bosses' boss and say, "I got my hopes up when you promised me a raise of $6K, and was very disappointed when my raise turned out to be $2K. Can you explain?" [the discrepancy]

I can actually sympathize with her boss's boss. I'm sure her boss's boss appreciated her work and had every intention of giving her that raise. but its unfortunate that he/she spoke prematurely to say the least. Nevertheless, a couple of things might have happened:

- Business might not have been as good as expected
- there might be unexpected belt tightening at the hotel
- Finance might have nixed it for whatever reason during budget planning
- a higher up might have nixed it for whatever reason.
- when the boss's boss presented the business case for a $6K raise, it might have been deemed not strong enough
- the economic environment for the company might have changed
- maybe they decided to wait till the new law goes into effect

Especially nowadays people have to have a very strong business case to support a large raise like that. did she do something that helped the hotel realize a significant increase in revenue? Just working hard and doing your job is not enough, unfortunately. a 2K raise is probably standard, i would guess.

Look at whats happening in the industry. Starwood is about to be taken over by Marriott and this could lead to further consolidation. Before they were bought, they laid off thousands of employees to make themselves more attractive to a suitor. Wouldn't be surprised if other hoteliers are belt tightening as well.

My advice is to just let it go. Nothing in writing means no recourse.
Sure she could seek opportunities elsewhere. But she better make sure that she is in a better situation than what she is leaving.

 

[RU'70]

Good luck to her. She should be able to get another job in that field. Must be big demand for someone like her. My 2 cents worth: Whenever she does leave, and in spite of how she feels about those jerks she works for now, DON'T BURN ANY BRIDGES.

 

[RU848789]

Lousy situation. I'm not sure HR, anywhere, though, is really on the side of the employee in situations like this (conflict) - they're on the side of the employee only from the perspective of ensuring that nothing bad or embarrassing happens to the Company.

Where enlightened HR can be effective, however, is in helping to establish competitive pay/promotions, good benefits, and attractive "job satisfaction" programs (like encouraging rotations, supporting flex-time, providing good training programs, etc.) that attract and retain good employees.

 

[RU848789]

Good luck to her. She should be able to get another job in that field. Must be big demand for someone like her. My 2 cents worth: Whenever she does leave, and in spite of how she feels about those jerks she works for now, DON'T BURN ANY BRIDGES.

Sage advice.

 

[mikershoein]

Realize when she does get an offer and goes to resign , they will backfill all the promises and try to guilt her into staying and promise the 6k immediately. Make sure she had a "f that" attitude before her resignation, there are company's out there that pay fairly and treat employees well

 

[JoeRU0304]

Good luck to her. She should be able to get another job in that field. Must be big demand for someone like her. My 2 cents worth: Whenever she does leave, and in spite of how she feels about those jerks she works for now, DON'T BURN ANY BRIDGES.

Agreed...I hope it all works out for her. I don't want to 'derail' the thread or politicize it but its issues like this that make me think back to threads where some people absolutely villify unions and I just shake my head. There are plenty of private sector jobs that are run very well and take care of their employees, but there's also a fair amount of stuff like this going on as well.


Joe P.

 

[MADHAT1]

OP. All your fiance is owed is an explanation by her boss's boss, nothing more, nothing less.

She should approach her bosses' boss and say, "I got my hopes up when you promised me a raise of $6K, and was very disappointed when my raise turned out to be $2K. Can you explain?" [the discrepancy]

I can actually sympathize with her boss's boss. I'm sure her boss's boss appreciated her work and had every intention of giving her that raise. but its unfortunate that he/she spoke prematurely to say the least. Nevertheless, a couple of things might have happened:

- Business might not have been as good as expected
- there might be unexpected belt tightening at the hotel
- Finance might have nixed it for whatever reason during budget planning
- a higher up might have nixed it for whatever reason.
- when the boss's boss presented the business case for a $6K raise, it might have been deemed not strong enough
- the economic environment for the company might have changed
- maybe they decided to wait till the new law goes into effect

Especially nowadays people have to have a very strong business case to support a large raise like that. did she do something that helped the hotel realize a significant increase in revenue? Just working hard and doing your job is not enough, unfortunately. a 2K raise is probably standard, i would guess.

Look at whats happening in the industry. Starwood is about to be taken over by Marriott and this could lead to further consolidation. Before they were bought, they laid off thousands of employees to make themselves more attractive to a suitor. Wouldn't be surprised if other hoteliers are belt tightening as well.

My advice is to just let it go. Nothing in writing means no recourse.
Sure she could seek opportunities elsewhere. But she better make sure that she is in a better situation than what she is leaving.

Al reread the part that says :>but they are completely denying they said anything to her about giving her a raise of that number. They are telling her she "made that number up",<
and tell the OP again:
>She should approach her bosses' boss and say, "I got my hopes up when you promised me a raise of $6K, and was very disappointed when my raise turned out to be $2K. Can you explain?" [the discrepancy]<
I think she got the only explanation anyone in that company's management will give her.
When promised something and just about called a liar when you bring up the promise, can't see how the boss or anyone in a management position above her deserves sympathy or excuses made for lying about the raise and implying she's the liar.
It's one thing to be fair to the company she works for, but another thing to defend the unfair actions that company took towards the OP's fiance.

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

My advice:

1. As others mentioned, don't burn any bridges.

2. Look for another job and get an offer for more $$.

3. If you get and are willing to accept the other offer, when your current company offers to counter to keep you, make sure you give them a high number to keep you (a LOT more than $6K). Good, hard working employees are valuable resources so barring any other politics not mentioned,if your fiancé is as you advertise, she will get countered. Make the company pay and realize how petty and stupid holding out on a promised $4K differential was.

Good luck.

 

[rutgersal]

Al reread the part that says :>but they are completely denying they said anything to her about giving her a raise of that number. They are telling her she "made that number up",<
and tell the OP again:
>She should approach her bosses' boss and say, "I got my hopes up when you promised me a raise of $6K, and was very disappointed when my raise turned out to be $2K. Can you explain?" [the discrepancy]<
I think she got the only explanation anyone in that company's management will give her.
When promised something and just about called a liar when you bring up the promise, can't see how the boss or anyone in a management position above her deserves sympathy or excuses made for lying about the raise and implying she's the liar.
It's one thing to be fair to the company she works for, but another thing to defend the unfair actions that company took towards the OP's fiance.

Madhat. I'm in a position to know how these things work. A 6K raise is higher than average, and to get that in the hotel industry, she better be walking on water, so that EVERYONE is convinced of the value of providing said raise. In my place, well intentioned managers want to do all kinds of nice things for our especially hard working employees, who toil for long hours, and probably deserve them. But if a committee and then the BIG MAN doesn't approve the higher than average raise, then it doesn't happen, period. They have to be convinced of the business value of providing said raise.

Now the employee doesn't know the Big Man/Committee said No, only certain people like the manager. The obvious mistake here was that the boss's boss shouldn't have opened his mouth till said raise was approved through all needed channels.

Exactly who is calling her a liar? OP never defined who "They" is comprised of. Is They the boss's boss and the boss? Is the boss's boss now denying that he ever told her that she would receive a 6K raise? If he is, it could be because he could get in trouble for promising a raise that wasn't approved by others.

Not condoning these reprehensible actions, but just trying to explain the "other side".

Ultimately, If the boss's boss promised her a 6K raise, then the boss's boss needs to be called on it, and I'm not sure from the posts, that this was done. Pretty Simple.

 

[MADHAT1]

Al,
Hope the OP answers your questions.
As for me I have to think the OP's fiance would have contacted the person who promise the raise or went up the ladder to get the reason why it was 2k instead of the promised 6k and the person who promised the raise denied promising 6k.
But the OP is the only one who can say it happened like that, we can only speculate what happened.

 

[scarlet89]

Two things.

1. HR is not on the employees side…ever. In these cases they work for management to protect the company from damage. They are not your friend even though they will pretend to be.

2. Be careful when contemplating acceptance of a counter once you've informed the employer of another offer. Good advice I've received from some smart people. More money is great and they need you at the moment but with that action you have made it clear you are very willing to leave. They may start grooming/recruiting your future replacement. Especially if you make them massively overpay the offer and it also doesn't sound like you are dealing with the most honest folks in the world.

 

[robcac26]

I agree with everyone who says it is time to start looking elsewhere and maybe try to go above her boss and explain the situation to someone else.

I was in a similar position this past fall when I tried scheduling the remaining vacation days I had left because ours don't roll over. My boss told me I had two less than I thought I did, so I asked for his list of which days I used since there was obviously a discrepancy. This was in October. He gave me his list, and I showed him proof that I was there working on two of those days. He said he would look into it. I waited two weeks and brought it up again, and he said he didn't get a chance to check it out yet. Another month went by and time was running out, so I politely mentioned it again and he raised his voice and said I was being too nitpicky about it (as if two days out of the ten we get is no big deal), and if he sees that he made a mistake he'll give me a day back but to plan on that not happening. I then sent him a list of the days I wanted to use my vacation days on, based on the incorrect number he gave me. I have some days where I do administrative stuff at my desk, and some days where I do operations stuff as a closing manager. He denied all of the days I requested taking off for my closing shifts because we would need to give a part-time hourly person (who all wanted more hours) another shift those weeks. I decided that even though I enjoy what I do, working for such an unappreciative and unreasonable person made it miserable to show up to work every day, so I applied to a bunch of other places and was willing to take less money to get out.

I waited until I was able to get his boss, the owner, in a one-on-one situation about a week or so before the end of the year, and explained the issue to him. He told me to send him an email with proof that I worked on those two days that were erroneously listed as vacation, and he will let me carry those two days over into 2016. A week later, he fired my boss (not just because of my vacation days, but I'm sure it was just another example of his ineptitude as a manager) and replaced him with someone much more organized and more supportive of his good workers, and it feels like a completely different job now. I got an offer from one place I applied to but I turned it down to stay where I'm at.

Morals of the story: sometimes it pays to let your feelings be known by the higher-ups, and working for the right person can really have a huge impact on your own happiness so don't be afraid to start applying to other places.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

ALWAYS get it in writing or it doesn't count.

 

[Rokodesh]

I was promised a promotion at my first job, in talk only, because they were so happy with my work. The time came for promotions and I didn't get one, but the people who had only been there a year did. I was so pissed. Tell her to look elsewhere and forget about loyalty. Jumped to another company that gave me almost 30k more.

 

[jonRU09]

Lots of good advice in this thread. This may very well be anecdotal, but if you can get more than one offer from potential employers, you will have a lot more leverage in negotiating salary.

My wife was in a similar position, albeit in a different industry. She began applying to other jobs in her field with the goal of getting more than one competing offer. She ended up getting three offers and used her then-current job to get counter-offers and more leverage on the pending offers. She ended up taking one of the competing offers at a substantial increase not only over her then-current job (even with the counter-offer) but also over what she was initially offered by her new employer.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Sage advice.

Very good advice, especially for pharma! Everyone ends up working with each other again. Very small incestuous industry we have.
:)

 

[jmc11201]

To sum up some things from this thread and a few other thoughts:

1. Seek alternative employment.

2. Do not burn bridges with current employer.

3. Do not bad-mouth existing employer when seeking a new job...when asked why you are looking, be a touch ambiguous (change of scenery, looking for more opportunity, etc.)...do not look like a whiner and don't unburden yourself to a potential new employer.

4. You always are more relaxed and confident interviewing for a new job when you have a job you are willing to stay at. It is like you becoming more attractive to men/women when you are already accounted for.

5. Don't make a move for an insignificant pay increase...make sure you make a pay jump up front.

6. You own your career...if you sit around waiting for an employer to 'do the right thing', you will probably be disappointed. Take ownership and recognize the inherent struggle and conflict between employer and employee...every dollar paid to you is one dollar less to the owner. They will pay you up to the value they believe you bring to the table vs. a replacement employee. They will generally seek to pay you the least to keep you happy. Your goal is to extract as much of your value as possible. You are not a prisoner, though, and should be willing to move to an employer that is willing to pay you your full value.

 

[Rutgers1]

Great advice from the hard working people on this board. Hopefully the lazy unionists can read this thread and learn something.