I didn’t say that. I don’t think PM will be back. Hopefully we get a portal PG who can run an offense. Make open 3s and D up No idea who that is hoping he’s out there
Paul declares for the draft (Maintaining Eligibility)
- Thread starter jordkap
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What facts/stats do you have to support this ridiculous JJ comment? What were his stats this past season? I don't think either will play in the NBA but college performance is what the NBA looks at, correct? High school stars mean nothing.
The top 10 or so ranked HS players can be disappointing in college and still get drafted
Potential is more important than college success
athleticism and skill. jones flamed out here due to other factors. but he’s far ahead of Paul in nba prerequisites.
Paul got as far as he has with lunchpail talent, a credit to him. It falls miles short of nba talent. Jones was a far better prospect.
Recruiting Stars don’t matter directly to nba per se, but they are a measure of athleticism and skill.
Not commenting on JJ vs. Paul.
But your last sentence is backwards.
College performance means nearly nothing. It’s about their projection of skills into the NBA as getting older.
There is a reason Bailey and Harper are projected as 1st round picks when they haven’t even stepped on a college court.
If the NBA CBA changes and allows direct to HS - there is a good chance Bailey and Harper don’t even attend college at all.
Most 5 star HS recruits would never make it to college.
3 Big Ten All Freshman are likely to be 1st round picks in June. Big Ten (and National) POY Zach Edey is likely undrafted if he even bothers declaring and staying in the draft.
Have you heard these two talk about each other the last three years? There is Zero chance of Pike doing that.
No, neither are NBA players. Comparing their “chances” is like saying my 9 year old who plays AAU is more NBA ready than my 4 year old. Paul will have a more successful career abroad though. Jaden’s decision was foolish (especially in the NIL era now) because he didn’t even try to first develop into a good college player.
I’m sure Paul knows he’s not an NBA player but why not go through the process. If I could get work outs I’d have done it too just for the experience. His decision will be an easy one to make though at every stage.
On the other hand, Caleb and Cliff will have the tough decisions. The questions for a kid like Caleb (and Cliff next year) is whether it’s worth fighting through the G league with limited income in outside hope of making an NBA roster. For different reasons, Caleb (and Cliff) will have non-zero chances of getting there, but the odds still stacked against. Unlike RHJ, these kids do not come from families of former NBA stars. Time spent in the G league that doesn’t translate to being pulled up to a roster is lost revenue abroad.
I meant stars mean nothing when you have a college body of work to evaluate. You have four years of Paul and two years of JJ (or whatever part thereof). Playing against college level competition will provide much more to scouts. Maybe ACE could go right to the NBA if not for the rule but if he is a disappointment in college then scouts will have a problem with it. We have a highly rated four star on our team that will not get a sniff because of his college body of work, not bad but not NBA worthy.
It’s talent and nba talent displayed at the high school and more importantly college level/G league. Athleticism, speed. defend, shoot, handle, and college body of work has very little to do with it. (Kofi Eddy Europe). Even if you want to include college body of work that actually hurts Paul because nothing he has shown is NBA ready: Gavin would get drafted Tommorrow before Paul and has never stepped on the college floor. DS altheticism would get drafted over Paul .
I wish him well and hopefully he comes back in a support role.
I’ll try another way. Jones picked the wrong school. Defense was/is our priority and Jones isn’t that kind of player. Either is Hyatt to a lesser degree. I am convinced Jones could been Weiskamp or close to it in an offense-oriented program. He’s in the NBA.
If a GM and had to choose between Jones and Paul for a roster spot, the pick is Jones, no question.
If a GM and had to choose between Jones and Paul for a roster spot, the pick is Jones, no question.
Agreed! Pike has to play these highly rated offensive recruits and hope they become avg defenders. If not, players will take notice and we will lose out on those players coming to RU. Gavin has to start, Ace has to start etc:
Tons of guys like that. If they were just in the perfect program for them with a coach totally invested in them and teammates who believed in them etc
At the end of the day, it's no risk and all benefit for Mulcahy to declare for the draft. We have no idea of what his ultimate post-Rutgers intentions are, but declaring is really nothing but positives.
- He gets an evaluation from a different set of eyes beyond the coaching staff.... which helps him identify areas of his game he needs to improve, whether it's with an eye toward being more successful in college or at some level of professional ball (in the US or internationally)
- He gets experience with the draft process... which gives him more knowledge/understanding if he were to go into coaching (or if he wants to become an agent at some point)
- He gets exposure to scouts and professional staff.... which builds contacts in the industry, whether he ultimately tries to go pro or become a coach/agent at some point
- He gets exposure to professional agents... which gives him a better sense of the professional basketball landscape and how the system works
- He sets a timeline for a decision to return... which quiets the "when will he announce his decision" chatter until after the NBA draft withdrawal deadline
There's really no downside to declaring and retaining eligibility other than some noise from message board armchair "experts".
- He gets an evaluation from a different set of eyes beyond the coaching staff.... which helps him identify areas of his game he needs to improve, whether it's with an eye toward being more successful in college or at some level of professional ball (in the US or internationally)
- He gets experience with the draft process... which gives him more knowledge/understanding if he were to go into coaching (or if he wants to become an agent at some point)
- He gets exposure to scouts and professional staff.... which builds contacts in the industry, whether he ultimately tries to go pro or become a coach/agent at some point
- He gets exposure to professional agents... which gives him a better sense of the professional basketball landscape and how the system works
- He sets a timeline for a decision to return... which quiets the "when will he announce his decision" chatter until after the NBA draft withdrawal deadline
There's really no downside to declaring and retaining eligibility other than some noise from message board armchair "experts".
LoL. Jones did not pick the wrong anything. There's a difference between a player being defensive focused and being clueless on defense. Kid did not seem to want to work at either school or on the court. He even had a chance to use the portal and go to another school and passed on it. Guys like RHJ were not defensive focused dynamos at RU but worked hard. If you think that Pike just trashes talent in the garbage, not sure what more anyone can say.
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Absolutely right. Jones didn’t fit Pike and left. Not a fit. Doesn’t mean Paul is a better player. He’s far from it
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Disagree,If Paul is even considering coming back ,with scholly & playing time, how can we agressively hit the portal.I can see waiting for Cliff ,because that is a game changer.Not so with Paul ,whose spot will probably be filled by DS(point) & Gavin/Cam on the wing(SG).Hopefully Pike ignores Pauls' ridiculous pro eval, fills the spot,& tells Paul See ya, unless you make a decision now.Paul is an unlikely short term solution & portal may be an upgrade, with multi year commitment
Lol, Jones was not a great HS player and is no way a NBA prospect. Neither is Paul, but he was a dominant HS player, and pretty good in college. The JJ mention is ridiculous.
Simpson was really bad in the first Michigan game. He was overwhelmed by their pressure and couldn't stay on the court bc of it
Let me rephrase - it's all upside and no downside for Mulcahy himself. As far as what he has told Pike, none of us are privy to that, nor will we be.
Pushing Mulcahy out the door is just dumb, and there's no sense at all in Pike doing that. He's about as strong an example of the culture Pike wants to instill in the incoming freshmen as you can possibly get now that Baker/McConnell are out of eligibility. If there is any eligible player who can be a lead-by-example "this is what Rutgers is" guy, it's him. It'd be foolish to push that away to roll the dice on finding a "better" portal player.
Assuming all of Omoruyi/Mulcahy/Hyatt come back, we still have 2 open roster spots to pull depth guys from the portal.
Based on returning minutes on a Rutgers roster:
3326 - Mulcahy*
2292 - Omoruyi*
1194 - Hyatt*
1070 - Spencer
968 - Mag
684 - Simpson
235 - Woolfolk
20 - Chol
n/a - Griffiths
n/a - Ndongo
n/a - Davis
n/a - Portal 1
n/a - Portal 2
Asterisk (*) denotes player that hasn't yet committed to returning.
Where's Jones playing now ?
Maybe he didn't chose the wrong school, but chose the wrong division
when he decided the school to go to.
Maybe his projected talent was higher than what he really had.
Paul might not be all pro material, but it looks like he will have a better chance to find an opportunity in the pros ( not saying NBA) than Jaden proved to have after he left RU .
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Being played off the ball and out of position anyone would be overwhelmed. Your a freshman and being asked to be played out of position. Either way Paul played almost all the minutes at PG and the senior who everyone seems to believe is a legit Power 5 point got the team to score 45 at home. The senior was overwhelmed and has been all year. Time to move on
What game did you watch? Mulcahy played well vs. Michigan - 35 min, 9 pts, 3 rb, 6 ast, 2 tov. Meanwhile, two of our starters (Hyatt/Palmquist) gave us a combined 3 pts, 2 rb, 3 ast, 2 tov in 53 minutes.
Starting PG led his team to 45 points at home! I was center court 2nd row. I also watched him get destroyed on defense. You can’t score 45 points and say the PG had a good game. It’s an opinion. I appreciate yours but if you want this team to move to the next level 45 points is not the answer. You realize DS played out of position and 24 less min and had 5 points to Paul’s whopping 9
Last I checked, there are five guys on the court at one time, not just one. You hit starters on the perimeter and they go 1/7, that's not on the PG.
And we didn't get that destroyed on defense if we only gave up 58 points.
I said He not we for a reason! Go back and look at the shots they got and the time on the shot clock when they received the ball. There is passing the ball to someone to take a shot and there is creating a great shot for a teammate.
Being a PG or a QB come with the same positives and negatives. You get all the credit when you win and most of the blame when you lose. Fair and unfair but that’s what you sign up for.
It’s amazing that ppl give Paul all of the credit in the world even the delusional talk of NBA draft. However, when we lose it’s he’s hurt, Mag was injured, the team didn’t shoot well, he’s tough, he works so hard, etc. Never he shot poorly, turned over the inbounds, played bad defensively, team offense shut down, he dribbles too much, tried to kick someone, etc.
So I guess which is it? At the end of the day we can debate hypotheticals. The only truth and fact is he was the starting senior PG whose team was second in the league with 8 games to go and failed to even make the tournament.
He played well against UM and the entire team around him did not offensively. I guess getting himself in foul trouble (PSU) and allowing DS to save the game was the refs fault, I guess the team finally winning and putting up the best ADJ O for the year with him being taken off the ball is just bad luck. The team just shooting better with someone else at the point just an outlier.
If he comes back I hope the team try’s to and does shoot better for him next year.
There’s really no clearer way for someone to demonstrate they shouldn’t be taken seriously than to ignore an individual’s stat line because “we only scored 45 points” only to claim mere words later that the same individual was “destroyed” on defense.. despite the team giving up just 58 points.
At least try for some intellectual consistency.
At least try for some intellectual consistency.
It is a failing of this board that there isn't an eye rolling reaction option for posts like this one.
There are games where one could point to Mulcahy's performance as a key to why we lost. Michigan wasn't one of them.
Ok fair! 9 points 6 assists 2 turnovers in 35 min with a total team points of 45 at home for a senior PG is not a good game.
Having a career avg 6.8 points and 3.8 assists playing alongside 3 nba caliber players to create for: 2 volume nba caliber guards/wings in Ron and Geo and a Dominant center in Cliff who led the country in dunks is embarrassing.
Having an offense avg 68.4 points and ranking 231 in the country is awful.
If your game planning against us there is NOT one aspect of his game that you have to account for. You don’t need to double him to stop him from getting to the basket. He can’t finish at the rim or run a break or even jump. Teams leave him open because he can’t and won’t shoot. Cam and cliff are doubled because his man can just leave him alone on the perimeter.
Maybe look up the luck stat for the year and try and explain away his numbers.
He has never been the best PG on his own team.
Jacob Young
Geo
Derek Simpson
I know it’s hard to except but he was never the best point guard on his own team. It’s over now with the NBA on the horizon so let’s move on.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make exactly. Paul is not a superstar point guard? Granted. Paul is a below average starting point guard in the Big Ten? Probably. Paul didn't play well at the end of the season? Obviously.
None of these seem to be reasons to me to jettison him from the team. Again this all seems to stem from what, as far as I can tell, is a completely unfounded fear that Pike would never play Mulcahy in a different role, or for less than 30 mpg. There's just no evidence for this. His reluctance to turn things over to a true freshman point guard is really not evidence for this.
A bunch of people seem to have the following logic train:
Paul could be valuable in the right role, but is detrimental in other roles => Pike would never play him in the correct role => Paul should be asked to leave
If that is actually correct (it's not), what we have is a coaching problem, not a Mulcahy problem.
Paul could be valuable in the right role, but is detrimental in other roles => Pike would never play him in the correct role => Paul should be asked to leave
If that is actually correct (it's not), what we have is a coaching problem, not a Mulcahy problem.
You picked a game where he was the third leading scorer (2 pts behind the leading scorer) and had 6 assists to hang the loss around his neck ... just a weird choice.
What were your expectations that game - 20 points and 10 assists? When only three starters contribute, you're not winning many games.
And the logic of the PG somehow being responsible for the success/performance of the whole team? I guess that means he was better in the game at PSU when we won 59-56, even though he scored no points and only had 2 assists. :eye roll:
Well, coach didn’t make the move all year until it was too late and cost us a bid in the NCAA tournament this year. Fact
Not evidence that we wouldn’t play this best lineup that gave us a chance to win? We all just witnessed a year where he did exactly that. Yes he made a change late but it was clear the team was dying. So yes I have fear Pike would go back to the well again out of pure loyalty. Hopefully not
Ok will disagree on that UM game. As far as my logic and the PSU game. I would love to give Paul the credit but he got himself benched by being in foul trouble and DS won the game (took his job) and deserves the credit. To Paul’s credit he got back in the game late made an awful turnover and committed am even worse foul. Now he tried to give away the game in every way so yes let’s give him credit for trying to lose the game but thankfully fouling out and officially turning the page on his career and our teams future.
I think everyone would want him as a sub, with much less PT. “Jettison” is too strong. No matter where you play him, we have better players on O and D.
You seem to be able to spin any game, no matter how well or how poorly the box score and result fit your argument, to make the same claim. As fluox said, at least try for some intellectual consistency.
It's pretty clear you just don't like Mulcahy's style of play and didn't understand his role within the team this year. That doesn't mean we'd be better off without him.
It’s ok I will slow down and explain it to you since it’s clear you have never competed in team sports.
The Individual who plays the majority of the minutes. The individual who has the ball in their hands to facilitate the offense the majority of minutes will get the credit or the blame. If that is not intellectual enough for you then you clearly have no understanding of basketball.
It does not matter the team or the player:(it does not have to be Rutgers).
YOU not me brought the PSU game up. I did not spin that game just answered your question. You were not intelligent enough to pick a better game for your argument.
In that game Paul got himself in foul trouble and did not play the majority of the minutes. Hence, he does not deserve the credit for the win. Any human being with eyes could see and knows DS won that game basically by himself with RU largest comeback victory. Now Paul got in late had a horrific turnover and subsequent foul. So yes, he tried to give away the comeback. So please don’t accuse me of spin when YOU offered an awful example and I simply point out the facts.
I did not embarrass you. You embarrassed yourself: The game is played on the court and it’s one of the best expressions of art.
You and Fluox can throw V lookups and luck stats to explain away the fact that he was not good. Take your eyes off the spreadsheets watch and understand the games and why things happen. The game is chess and your playing checkers.
I think the trap that fans sometimes tend to fall into is to look only at the upside of the shiny new toy while at the same time only the negatives of the guys who have been here. Paul is not a superstar and Simpson is much more physically gifted. That being said, there were likely solid reasons that Simpson was not placed in the lead role earlier. For me it comes down to Derek being widely inconsistent from game to game (which would be expected for a freshman) as well as his lackluster/bad Assist to Turnover ratio of 1.6 - especially for a lead guard. Consider that starting PG's in the BIG are probably in the range of 2.5 - 3.0 Assists/TO. Even Mulchahy was close to 2.5. Bottom line is that Simpson presents a significant amount of physical talent but is also still progressing. Team would be well served to have Paul back. A mix of veteran experience with youth is generally a good thing in College Basketball.
