We are halfway through the season, one in which we played 3 Top 5 teams. What is your mid-year view of Ash & Co v. your expectations before the season started?
Poll: Mid-Year Review Of Ash and his staff
- Thread starter ScarletStateofNJ
- Start date
He gets a pass this year and pretty much next year as far as I'm concerned, as long as he doesn't lose the locker room (which is going to be a battle unto itself). His main grade and value will be in recruiting, and keeping classes together as the team will be sailing through pretty rocky waters.
Off the field they've met expectations: Strong recruiter, good agent of culture change.
On the field they've underperformed: No huddle power-spread isn't going to work. Wrong OL and Wrong QB. Three and outs with no huddles are just physically and emotionally draining for this D. Those kids are shell shocked.
As a coach, if you don't have players that fit the scheme you want, you find plays and schemes that work for the group of players you have. Otherwise, you'll throw the entire season out.
Obviously you have to have wins to ensure strong recruiting and to validate your new culture. Will be interesting to see how this staff weathers this expected storm.
On the field they've underperformed: No huddle power-spread isn't going to work. Wrong OL and Wrong QB. Three and outs with no huddles are just physically and emotionally draining for this D. Those kids are shell shocked.
As a coach, if you don't have players that fit the scheme you want, you find plays and schemes that work for the group of players you have. Otherwise, you'll throw the entire season out.
Obviously you have to have wins to ensure strong recruiting and to validate your new culture. Will be interesting to see how this staff weathers this expected storm.
I'm pleased with the recruiting feedback so far, and the all around effort. Agree that record is a trailing indicator of the health of the program. Like the presidency, in the first couple years, Ash will be reaping what Flood had sown.
I think there has been clear improvement on positional defense, which is good to see, since the staff is largely defensive. The total lack of linebackers has kept the defense from really showing their improvement on the scoreboard, but its there if you pay attention.
I have also seen flashes of an offense that will work. I am really hoping we see some more flashes against defenses that lack the speed of OSU, UM and UW. I have tried to avoid killing Laviano on here -- its not his fault he is in this situation - but its pretty clear he cannot run a read-react offense like this. He simply does not make decisions quickly enough. His hesitation on both throws and on run reads has really hurt us. He needs to "go."
Some have been killing Mehringer. I am still a Mehringer fan. But he has some learning on the job to do (it is what it is). I also think he is getting killed for plays that look ugly only because they are not being run properly. If we had a QB capable of running a read option, we would look a hell of a lot better. I don't htink he should switch schemes to mask deficiencies in any of the remaining games. Perhaps he should have done that against OSU or UM, but now there is no reason. He should run his offense for the future now. I would agree that huddling and slowing the game down is a must is we find ourselves in blow-out situations in the future.
Special Teams I have a big problem with. As of right now, Okruch seems to have us unprepared to play special teams. Kick and punt coverage has been bad. And multiple penalties across multiple games for illegal formations should never happen. That's coaching.
Ultimately, the Year 1 test for Ash and Co. will be getting the team ready and motivated to come out and perform to their ability in the remaining games. They made it through the gauntlet, for better or worse, and now its time to get to work. If they can get to 5 wins and keep the recruiting class together, it will be tough to say things aren't going well come February. Even 4 wins will be a match of last years record, with losses of of very good players to graduation/NFL and of our best players this year to injury.
I think there has been clear improvement on positional defense, which is good to see, since the staff is largely defensive. The total lack of linebackers has kept the defense from really showing their improvement on the scoreboard, but its there if you pay attention.
I have also seen flashes of an offense that will work. I am really hoping we see some more flashes against defenses that lack the speed of OSU, UM and UW. I have tried to avoid killing Laviano on here -- its not his fault he is in this situation - but its pretty clear he cannot run a read-react offense like this. He simply does not make decisions quickly enough. His hesitation on both throws and on run reads has really hurt us. He needs to "go."
Some have been killing Mehringer. I am still a Mehringer fan. But he has some learning on the job to do (it is what it is). I also think he is getting killed for plays that look ugly only because they are not being run properly. If we had a QB capable of running a read option, we would look a hell of a lot better. I don't htink he should switch schemes to mask deficiencies in any of the remaining games. Perhaps he should have done that against OSU or UM, but now there is no reason. He should run his offense for the future now. I would agree that huddling and slowing the game down is a must is we find ourselves in blow-out situations in the future.
Special Teams I have a big problem with. As of right now, Okruch seems to have us unprepared to play special teams. Kick and punt coverage has been bad. And multiple penalties across multiple games for illegal formations should never happen. That's coaching.
Ultimately, the Year 1 test for Ash and Co. will be getting the team ready and motivated to come out and perform to their ability in the remaining games. They made it through the gauntlet, for better or worse, and now its time to get to work. If they can get to 5 wins and keep the recruiting class together, it will be tough to say things aren't going well come February. Even 4 wins will be a match of last years record, with losses of of very good players to graduation/NFL and of our best players this year to injury.
This is so hard...because the off season, he was so good. But gameday preps have been so bad...I guess that evens themselves out...
Underperformed.
They seem to be improving the culture/S&C/infrastructure, but you cannot grade a recruiting class until signing day at the very least. Ideally you'd wait a year or two to see how the recruits that actually sign perform on the field. If he keeps the current class together and adds a couple more pieces I'll change my grade.
On the field, I know we've played a brutal schedule. But, 7 total points in three B1G games is unfathomable. Only TWO first downs against UM (39 yards), with their 2nd/3rd stringers in, no less? FCS teams would fare better.
They seem to be improving the culture/S&C/infrastructure, but you cannot grade a recruiting class until signing day at the very least. Ideally you'd wait a year or two to see how the recruits that actually sign perform on the field. If he keeps the current class together and adds a couple more pieces I'll change my grade.
On the field, I know we've played a brutal schedule. But, 7 total points in three B1G games is unfathomable. Only TWO first downs against UM (39 yards), with their 2nd/3rd stringers in, no less? FCS teams would fare better.
I think this half of a season has really highlighted how poor the coaching and recruiting was during the Flood error. 58-0 and 78-0 were the pinnacle of his tenure here.
I think the players (both upper- and underclassmen) will really feel a lot of pride down the line when the guys that are learning with and under them right now and the next few incoming classes reap the benefit of the pain they feel now.
I think the players (both upper- and underclassmen) will really feel a lot of pride down the line when the guys that are learning with and under them right now and the next few incoming classes reap the benefit of the pain they feel now.
This poll is a great way to measure just how unrealistic many people's expectations are. It's a piss-poor way to measure how good (or bad) a job Ash & crew are doing.
BTW: Just because you vote Underperform, does not mean that you don't like the staff or think they should be fired. It is possible that a vote for underperform comes from the opinion that the staff has had some learning to do and has made some mistakes along the way.
My opinion is that certain situations, like the QBs, could have been / can be handled better, and no one including the staff expected the offense to be completely unable to move the ball.
My opinion is that certain situations, like the QBs, could have been / can be handled better, and no one including the staff expected the offense to be completely unable to move the ball.
I give Ash and staff a pass on W-L and on-field performance this year. His recruiting to date considering what we've seen on the field is good, however, there's a long way to go until signing day.
I expect incremental on-field improvements next year although missing a bowl in 2017 may not mean we're equally as bad or worse than this year. I expect a bowl game in 2018.
I expect incremental on-field improvements next year although missing a bowl in 2017 may not mean we're equally as bad or worse than this year. I expect a bowl game in 2018.
Yep. Just the fact that there is a poll proves what impatient, unrealistic fans we have. Truly stupid timing for a poll like this.
Very bad. We had to see some improvement. We have seen none.
Granted we don't have NFL talent on this team, but they are on scholarship. They had to be somewhat decent to earn a RU scholarship.
A coach is supposed to get the most out of the players. Ash gets nothing out of these players. They only look impressive when they are entering the field. But after the kickoff, they don't look like they have never played football. They can't pass, run, block, tackle, etc. It makes no sense.
Granted we don't have NFL talent on this team, but they are on scholarship. They had to be somewhat decent to earn a RU scholarship.
A coach is supposed to get the most out of the players. Ash gets nothing out of these players. They only look impressive when they are entering the field. But after the kickoff, they don't look like they have never played football. They can't pass, run, block, tackle, etc. It makes no sense.
I think that all goes to fan expectations again.
IMO, anybody that didn't expect our young HC and OC to struggle in this, their first year in those roles, particularly against top 5 teams, had unrealistic expectations. Rather than say the coaching staff under-performed expectations, I'd say those fans under-performed in realistic expectation-setting.
not to get political but I know how you feel :weary:
Well many have said we are lacking quality athletes in many spots across the board.... we are devoid of speed on the outside especially wideouts...we have sustained many injuries and not just bumps and bruises...at some B1G schools you can cover that up with 2nd team or even 3rd team depth...we have even lost 2nd and third...Don't be naive enough to think Ash and the staff didn't realize this after spring was over...we are in deep doo doo until we find a QB ...a RG and RT ...it was pathetic how the two Muller and Denman were abused by Michigan's line all night....that is why Seymour was moved to the O-line since is is light years more athletic...we need a good TE or 2 or 3.... receivers who can make a play holding onto a football...Patton has always been a guy who either catches or drops the pass...Agudosi is in the same...Our issue is upfront against these physical teams such as the 3 top 5 we have played...this saturday isn't going to be any different unless the O-line run and pass blocks at a high level...
We could have JT Barrett back there and we'd still be S.O.O.L
We could have JT Barrett back there and we'd still be S.O.O.L
underperformed. Expected some degree of improvement as our lines were supposed to be a strength, our DB's were more experienced, and laviano should have improved. Not to mention our coach was supposed to be DC superstar. Record is what I expected but maybe with losses in 20-30 point range, never did I expect 78 points. That's abysmal. Still optimistic though.
That's the problem right there. Probably 90% or more of their 2nd and 3rd stringers are more talented than our 1st stringers. Talent disparity matters a lot when you play the #2, #4 and #5 teams in the country.
Need a few more games before I can vote. I did think we would play OSU/UM a lot closer, but I also didn't think we would have these injuries. Still, hard for me to understand why Hawaii and UCF gave them a tougher time than we did.
Because this Michigan team is rapidly improving week by week. They are truly a Harbaugh team, the same way that the 49ers and Stanford quickly went from below average to title contenders. Jim is a helluva coach.
I can't believe some people have absolutely 0 things that they would have liked to see Ash do better.
I think they have underperformed a bit. I still support Ash, but the play calling against Iowa was questionable. The choices of which QBs to play and sit and when is also a little baffling. And the unrelenting fact that they keep going 3 and out in undrr a minute knowing the personnel just can't do it is as well, as is the disgusting beat down UM put on us at home. I get it I expected to grt killed the last two weeks. Had 0 expectations of even competing. But man, against 2nd and 3rd string, 0 points? Barely any first downs? I hope the staff isnt blaming flood for every single issue the way some of you are. And I know they are not.
Just FYI I am not and was not a flood supporter, and I am an Ash supporter. I am just being honest here. Also not sold on Mehringer yet. Not decided either way. Buy go ahead and rip into me like an angry mob.
I think they have underperformed a bit. I still support Ash, but the play calling against Iowa was questionable. The choices of which QBs to play and sit and when is also a little baffling. And the unrelenting fact that they keep going 3 and out in undrr a minute knowing the personnel just can't do it is as well, as is the disgusting beat down UM put on us at home. I get it I expected to grt killed the last two weeks. Had 0 expectations of even competing. But man, against 2nd and 3rd string, 0 points? Barely any first downs? I hope the staff isnt blaming flood for every single issue the way some of you are. And I know they are not.
Just FYI I am not and was not a flood supporter, and I am an Ash supporter. I am just being honest here. Also not sold on Mehringer yet. Not decided either way. Buy go ahead and rip into me like an angry mob.
Didn't expect bowl eligibility ( hoped it would happen) and expected blowout losses from the better programs. Washington is proving to be one, Iowa was supposed to be good and expecting anything close against the Buckeyes and Wolverines would be unrealistic.
Then remember how Ohio State easily destroyed Rutgers 58-0 and you;ll know why Harbaugh had his Michigan squad annihilate RU 78-0. He was sending a message to
Urban and the College football world that his Wolverines were the best in the B1G and
saying look how we scored 20 more against RU in out destruction of Rutgers offense
and their defense compared to the beat-down they took from OSU.
Rutgers was used by Harbaugh as his Buckeye-Wolverine measuring stick.
I'll not complain about that, just be disgusted he was able to pull it off so easily .
But all in all if recruiting is good and RU is competitive against the lesser B1G programs
I'll say with everything Ash and his staff were facing when they signed on, they met expectations and might have exceeded them .
Asking how RU's HC & Staff are doing after playing two top programs is going to tilt the vote towards the negative side. But if you look at recruiting as the main factor at the halfway mark you might look at it in a more positive light.
Then remember how Ohio State easily destroyed Rutgers 58-0 and you;ll know why Harbaugh had his Michigan squad annihilate RU 78-0. He was sending a message to
Urban and the College football world that his Wolverines were the best in the B1G and
saying look how we scored 20 more against RU in out destruction of Rutgers offense
and their defense compared to the beat-down they took from OSU.
Rutgers was used by Harbaugh as his Buckeye-Wolverine measuring stick.
I'll not complain about that, just be disgusted he was able to pull it off so easily .
But all in all if recruiting is good and RU is competitive against the lesser B1G programs
I'll say with everything Ash and his staff were facing when they signed on, they met expectations and might have exceeded them .
Asking how RU's HC & Staff are doing after playing two top programs is going to tilt the vote towards the negative side. But if you look at recruiting as the main factor at the halfway mark you might look at it in a more positive light.
He's done a terrific job proving that patience is a virtue. There is nothing wrong with running a pro-set offense until you recruit the right personnel. Let's see if he makes the right decisions on Saturday. I'll be there on the 45 yard line
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I keep seeing this stupid "running a pro set offense" crap? Why would a coach, whom we hired based on a specific plan, coach a system that wasn't a part of that plan and maybe isn't really a system he wants or is comfortable coaching, all while recruiting for a completely different system? It's not like he's going to clean house completely next year, so we're going to need some of the current guys to know and become comfortable with the spread offense he wants to run.
Or is your plan to run a pro offense for four years, then switch over when it's all his recruits - who apparently commit here based on hints and promises of an offense that they can't actually see but maybe will be a very good fit in years later? Either way, why in God's name would he come in, install an outdated offense that he doesn't want to use, thereby getting players accustomed to that one offense, then pull a 180 year(s) later, causing some of the same kids to have to become accustomed to playing and excelling in a different offense?
Why wouldn't he stick with his original plan and grow his own system from the very start, which is the kind of thing coaches do when they're overhauling programs? Oh, that's right, he would. The question is really: why do our fans stubbornly refuse to accept that very basic fact? I don't want a damn bandage from the Wounds of Flood; I want surgery.
Difficult to separate the coaching skills from the talent available. I think this staff is far more professional, intense, and focused than the previous group. I believe in them. For now.
Totally Disagree! The D looks much improved on tackling and pass defense then they did last year putting aside the last two opponents where we were over matched, but you did see the progess in the Iowa game. And all 128 division 1A schools have scholarship players. So what are you saying, because we have scholarship players we should be good? Tell that to the 128th ranked team in the Nation. And how can you get the most out of the players you did not recruit for your system. You can get the most out of your players potential talent, but that's it. This is Flood's debacle and Ash has to fix it. It's not happening fast enough for some. Live with it! I can. Ash is on the right track. He should not change his system to be successful just for this year to please the fans. He needs to instill the system he believes in to his current team and to those recruits who will follow. Then you will see success.
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I understand. But wouldn't you say just about every team in the country has a talent disparity versus UM? Hawaii still managed to kick a FG. UCF scored 2 TDs. PSU put 10 points up. And all of those games were in Ann Arbor. Think about that, UCF on the road had the same number of TDs as we did first downs at home.
What about total yards? Hawaii: 232. UCF: 331. PSU: 191. We had 39. That's more than just talent disparity.
They have met my expectations. They have been thrashed by 3 teams currently in the top 5, lost a close game to the preseason favorite to win the B1G West, and defeated the two teams they should have. They would have exceeded my expectations if they had an easier time defeating UNM and started the game better against Howard OR pulled off the upset over Iowa. All of this is done with a group of players who don't really fit the new offensive scheme.
Under....
Expected to lose at home but not be humiliated
Can't up the grade based on recruiting until they sign...
Still like Ash....he may need some better assistants though..
I'll be patient and still go...knew it was a 3 year deal,,,but damn
Expected to lose at home but not be humiliated
Can't up the grade based on recruiting until they sign...
Still like Ash....he may need some better assistants though..
I'll be patient and still go...knew it was a 3 year deal,,,but damn
You just don't understand do you? His philosophy of sticking to his game plan and continuing to try and recruit kids to run the power spread (successfully!!!) is risky at best. Keep losing football games by 14 points or more and complement that with a 4-8 or 5-7 record this is what will happen:
1) Visiting B10-ACC-SEC coaches will keep poaching the very best athletes in NJ by first killing the program and making Ash look like a numskull to NJ HS coaches.
2) Our recruiting classes will be sub-par at best.
3) According to some of my contacts who actually work for the school, two consecutive losing seasons will result in a 10-15% loss of season ticket holders.
3). The media will crucify us after each and every game and continue to question how we benefit the B10.
I don't know how old you are but suggesting that we sacrifice two full seasons (some say 3) to implement a new offense proves that your thinking is clouded and frankly irresponsible.
1)I agree, if you are spread coach, you run a spread offense, you implement your system.
2)As Ash alluded to recently, the spread and the pro style are not so vastly different that a guy should not be unable to run one or the other. Certainly a pro style QB has been in the shot gun b4 with multiple receivers spread wide.
The read option is something Laviano has run very little of prior to new offense, but while he is not proficient at it, does it make the offense better to never run it?
For the other skill positions I don't see why running a spread would have a negative effect. Perhaps it does expose our lack of talent at the skills, more specifically WR, (while a pro set would maybe highlight our strength at RB), but a WR should not be greatly effected by one scheme or the other.
3)Now could we slow the offense down a bit while still running spread? Yeah that would probably help. Could we tweak the spread a bit because we don't have a game ready spread QB in place? We probably already do. I bet Mehringer would love to see his QB running more, and would also love to see him getting the ball more often to the wide receivers. But we haven't done a very good job with that, so what we see is a fairly one dimensional spread offense. Trying to get the ball to our strength which is at RB.
I thought with the new energized coaches and with strength and conditioning and Ash being a very good DC that we would be improved. I thought we would win 5 games and never expected to lose two games by 58-0 and 78-0. That is embarrassing. We gave the Iowa game away. We should have taken the field goal before halftime. We should never have run our QB 4 straight times with a first down on the 2 when Martin was running the ball really well. Martin was open on about the 7 late in the game with no one near him and Laviano ran to the right and got tackled for a 4 yard loss on the 15. I still cannot fathom that when Martin was right in front of him. I am really down on Meminger for his play calling in the Iowa game plus our last 2 shutouts. Some how you have to score and get more than 39 yards in an entire game.
When Schiano got here in 2001 It took him four years to get the program out of the abyss. Ash is halfway through season one and already many peoples expectations are so far removed from reality, that it is surprising. I am willing to give Ash three years to show improvement in his game day performance. He needs time to recruit his players and install his system. It is NOT going to happen overnight. I think he is on the right track but he needs a couple of more seasons to show that improvement.
