Question for Cali or the others(Lacrosse guys)

[richthedentist]

How do you think the team has performed so far this year? I am not an expert by any means and have not watched every minute of every game but the one thing that it seemed to me is we have had so many unforced turnovers especially on clears; the offense seems to be very good
Just wondering especially going into a tough Princeton game
thank you in advance

 

[mdk01]

They miss last years rope unit. That's IMHO the only significant difference from 2022.

 

[bigmatt718]

They miss last years rope unit. That's IMHO the only significant difference from 2022.

We're better at FOs this year as well but like you said, that's cancelled out by the rope unit being weaker. Offense/defense are both still very good and Mullin has been good between the pipes for the most part.

 

[DowntownT_Brown]

This is an intangible that is hard to gauge but I think we have less composure than we have had in recent years. You can see it with some of the decision making on clears, ground ball struggles, and even in settled play as we saw with a turnover when passing the ball to a player who is subbing off the field(apologies for calling out an individual play/er but needed an example).

As mdk01 noted we miss the rope unit and having that experienced group gave us a lot of confidence in the middle of the field as did Kirst in goal. Mullin is playing great and I am glad we have him but Kirst was elite in the clear and net, a confidence buoy.

Ground balls drive me a little crazy. RU as the bigger, more athletic team(by my eye test) should have owned Utah in 50/50 GBs but we struggled in the first half. I think a team having a bad day with GBs it is usually a combination of lack of aggression, taking bad angles on balls, swiping at balls, trying to run through the ball expecting it will hop into ones stick vs. scooping, and just a general lack of commitment and willingness to take a hit. Assuming the physical tools are there these are things that are fixable with a bit of confidence.

 

[richthedentist]

This is an intangible that is hard to gauge but I think we have less composure than we have had in recent years. You can see it with some of the decision making on clears, ground ball struggles, and even in settled play as we saw with a turnover when passing the ball to a player who is subbing off the field(apologies for calling out an individual play/er but needed an example).

As mdk01 noted we miss the rope unit and having that experienced group gave us a lot of confidence in the middle of the field as did Kirst in goal. Mullin is playing great and I am glad we have him but Kirst was elite in the clear and net, a confidence buoy.

Ground balls drive me a little crazy. RU as the bigger, more athletic team(by my eye test) should have owned Utah in 50/50 GBs but we struggled in the first half. I think a team having a bad day with GBs it is usually a combination of lack of aggression, taking bad angles on balls, swiping at balls, trying to run through the ball expecting it will hop into ones stick vs. scooping, and just a general lack of commitment and willingness to take a hit. Assuming the physical tools are there these are things that are fixable with a bit of confidence.

How much is youth, how much is coaching vs. confidence?

 

[mdk01]

How much is youth, how much is coaching vs. confidence?

Another reason. The guys on the rope unit have never played together before. Part of the difference from last year is indeed talent, but part of it is also their experience playing together.

 

[DowntownT_Brown]

I don't think it's youth as we don't have any freshman starting unless Splaine has bumped up but we do have younger guys and transfers who are stepping into either bigger or new roles.

As we can see with the current state of our basketball team, confidence is critical and how to unlock it is a million dollar question as kids will probably respond individually and there won't be a one size fits all solution.

Both players and coaches should be spending a bit of time reviewing the tape as we have some tuning to do by both and I believe we will realize some of that untapped potential, hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Scarlet Craig]

For fans whose level of strategic lacrosse knowledge is “throw ball in net”, what is a ROPE unit?

 

[jreinsdorf]

For fans whose level of strategic lacrosse knowledge is “throw ball in net”, what is a ROPE unit?

Not all midfielders perform the same functions. The rope unit is tasked with more defensive play and in a perfect world transitiing that stop quickly (nascar) to more offensive minded personnel. These guys are key to the way RU plays ball.

 

[Scarlet Craig]

Not all midfielders perform the same functions. The rope unit is tasked with more defensive play and in a perfect world transitiing that stop quickly (nascar) to more offensive minded personnel. These guys are key to the way RU plays ball.

Thanks, is it an acronym?

 

[mattkamish]

The jury is out this year. Give it more time, lots of lacrosse left…but Saturday is a VERY big game for this team with regards to at-large status…the next two games actually…

With regards to last year vs this year….look, last years team goes down as one of the best ever if not thee best RU lacrosse team…and the one thing I always loved about last years team and even two years ago is the team never panicked…late in games, even down goals, they always ran their stuff, the stayed patient and they were so experienced in the middle of the field, they rarely made mistakes…very rarely did they look rattled…they were very good

Let’s see how the season progresses…Rutgers lacrosse is now widely considered a staple top 10 / top 15 program…last year we finished ranked 4….

The test is staying close to the top…it’s not an easy task…but I like the guy in charge and I love the support this program is getting.

 

[jreinsdorf]

Thanks, is it an acronym?

Not that I'm aware no. We have great lax posters here so maybe they can chime in on the origin. But you will hear/see the abbreviations SSDM (short stick defensive midfielder and LSM (long stick midfielder) attached to the rope unit. At lower levels (youth/REC) you will often (but not always) see that the middies are some of the best all around athletes on the team. They are put there to impact the game in all 3 zones instead of just one. At more competitive levels of lacrosse you see the specialization enter the game because it is a big ask to have a kid be equally effective everywhere on the field. Hope that helps.

 

[jreinsdorf]

As the sport grows like wildfire (go to a tournament and see for yourself) and the RU team continues to be a player for a NC, I think/hope we will see a growing flow of traffic on the lax forum. If I'm right then maybe a Q and A thread from time to time would be useful? It is such a beautiful sport after you have a rudimentary understanding of it. If this board is largely composed of (35-55) year olds like me then you probably grew up with little to zero exposure to the sport but know a thing or two about football. But now our sons and daughters are flocking to lax and I see a lot of middle aged guys who are growing curious to learn a little lax because of their kids.

 

[mdk01]

Not that I'm aware no. We have great lax posters here so maybe they can chime in on the origin. But you will hear/see the abbreviations SSDM (short stick defensive midfielder and LSM (long stick midfielder) attached to the rope unit. At lower levels (youth/REC) you will often (but not always) see that the middies are some of the best all around athletes on the team. They are put there to impact the game in all 3 zones instead of just one. At more competitive levels of lacrosse you see the specialization enter the game because it is a big ask to have a kid be equally effective everywhere on the field. Hope that helps.

First time I heard the expression was with regards to the Rutgers unit. Maybe @Caliknight can explain the origin.
And way back, before the specialization, the mids were the all around athletes. Putting it in football terms, you'd see the HBs and LBs at midfield, the WRs and DBs (along with a big body to play the crease) and perhaps a QB at attack and the DEs, TEs and an OL if he had the necessary mobility at defense.

 

[rufamily]

This team performance based on expectations is probably in line as we knew we would not be as good in the goal, the roe unit or on offense this has been pretty much what we have seen.
On offense replacing Bartolo, Jacoby and Gallagher was going to be a big lift, and actually replacing the second midfield line was also going to be tough (as we have seen) Kulas is good but Sprock is still not back to himself and Aimone while good is not up to the level of Jacoby.
In the goal we miss Kirst's ability to handle the ball and be effective in the clearing game, We also miss JJF in this respect. Mullin is a good stopper of the ball but Kirst was an elite handler of the ball. A lack of offensive production out the ROPE unit has also hurt.

I would say that this year's team is pretty on track as far as expectations go but are behind last year's team.
Big game coming up this weekend against the Pumpkin heads. but then a tricky 3 game stretch on the road and the beginning of the Big Ten slate which appears tougher than expected.

 

[rbled]

Not sure of the origin of the term rope unit, but I can tell you that the position has evolved greatly, and our current and former coaches have played a hand in it.

Up until I think the late 70s or early 80s, there was a substitution horn that you could blow at every whistle and run a new player or unit on the field. It historically was used mainly to swap middie lines.

I am pretty sure Coach Hayes s the first coach to run on a group of 3 long pole middies at the first horn in the defensive end., as nothing in the rules prevented it. So began the era of the LSM. It became widely adopted and frankly it really slowed the game down and turned it from an athletes game to one of specialization. Control freak coaches would blow the horn at every stoppage and have specialists for offense, defense, rides, clears, etc. very different from today’s game (witch is now the best it’s ever been and the closest to the way it is meant to be played IMO).

In the early to mid 80’s they changed the rule so that you could only use the horn if the ball went out in the end line. Around the same time they limited the number of long poles to 4. Eventually they obviously did away with the horn altogether and all subs had to be on the fly through the box like it is today.

It was typical to use your 4th best defenseman as you LSM and sub them for your 3rd worst middie on defense. The other 2 middies were typically 2 way players. Around the early 90s the SSDM started to come into favor. Coaches would often use decently athletic middies that lacked stick skills and were not good enough to play in the 1st or 2nd (or 3rd) middie line and make them a SSDM. I know because I was one.

Again, I think Hayes was an innovator here as well, as I think he was one of the first coaches to have dedicated short stick middies. Their role was strictly defense and maybe gbs on faceoffs. But much like “fogos” as soon as it flipped to offense the SSDMs were expected to sprint to the box unless there was a clear fast break. But they were not expected to drive transition. This eventually lead to SSDM becoming a position that was coached, developed and recruited for, as opposed to something a middie would do to see the field (think special teams in FB. No one dreams of becoming a career special teams player besides punters and kickers, who are more like goalies or face off guys).

Brecht was one of the first coaches I’ve seen to see the advantage of having great athletes at the SSDM position (LSM has long been considered a position that requires above average athleticism). But having a “rope unit”, as it is now commonly called, that not only can play outstanding defense, but also push transition and create mismatches on offense, can be a huge advantage. You see it on most (but not all) teams now, but Brian is one of the coaches most known for using SSDMs in this way.

Any way, that’s a little bit about the origins and history of D Middies lol

 

[Caliknight]

Great summation.

 

[mattkamish]

Not sure of the origin of the term rope unit, but I can tell you that the position has evolved greatly, and our current and former coaches have played a hand in it.

Up until I think the late70s or early 80s, there was a substitution horn that you could blow at every whistle and run a new player or unit on the field. It historically was used mainly to swap middie lines.

I am pretty sure Coach Hayes s the first coach to run on a group of 3 long pole middies at the first horn in the defensive end., as nothing in the rules prevented it. So began the era of the LSM. It became widely adopted and frankly it really slowed the game down and turned it from an athletes game to one of specialization. Control freak coaches would blow the horn at every stoppage and have specialists for offense, defense, rides, cleats, etc. very different from today’s game (witch is now the best it’s ever been and the closest to the way it is Brent to be played IMO).

In the early to mid 80’s they changed the rule so that you could only use the horn if the ball went out in the end line. Around the same time they limited the number of long poles to 4. Eventually obviously did away with the horn altogether and all subs have to be in the fly through the box like it is today.

It was typical to use your 4th best defenseman as you LSM and sub then for your 3rd worst middie on defense. The other 2 middies were typically 2 way players. Around the early 90s the SSDM started to come into favor. Coaches would often use decently athletic middies that lacked stick skills and were not good enough to play in the 1st or 2nd (or 3rd) middie line and make them a SSDM. I know because I was one.

Again, I think Hayes was an innovator here as well, as I think he was one of the first coaches to have dedicated short stick middies. Their role was strictly defense and maybe gbs on faceoffs. But much like “fogos” s soon as it flipped to offense the SSDMs were expected to sprint to the box unless there was a clear fast break. But they were not expected to drive transition. This eventually lead to SSDM becoming a position that was coached, developed and recruited for, as opposed to something a middie would do to see the field (think special teams in FB. No one dreams of becoming a career special teams player besides punters and kickers, who’ve are not like goalie or face off guys).

Brecht was one of the first coaches I’ve seen to see the advantage of having great athletes at the SSDM position (LSM has long been considered a position that requires above average athleticism). But having a “rope unit”, as it is now commonly called, that not only can play outstanding defense, but also push transition and create mismatches on offense, can be a huge advantage. You see it on most (but not all) teams now, but Brian is one of the coaches most known for inning SSDMs in this way.

Any way, that’s a little bit about the origins and history of D Middies lol

Some good history there…especially as it relates to the RU program and coach Hayes

Thanks!

 

[mdk01]

Not sure of the origin of the term rope unit, but I can tell you that the position has evolved greatly, and our current and former coaches have played a hand in it.

Up until I think the late 70s or early 80s, there was a substitution horn that you could blow at every whistle and run a new player or unit on the field. It historically was used mainly to swap middie lines.

I am pretty sure Coach Hayes s the first coach to run on a group of 3 long pole middies at the first horn in the defensive end., as nothing in the rules prevented it. So began the era of the LSM. It became widely adopted and frankly it really slowed the game down and turned it from an athletes game to one of specialization. Control freak coaches would blow the horn at every stoppage and have specialists for offense, defense, rides, clears, etc. very different from today’s game (witch is now the best it’s ever been and the closest to the way it is meant to be played IMO).

In the early to mid 80’s they changed the rule so that you could only use the horn if the ball went out in the end line. Around the same time they limited the number of long poles to 4. Eventually they obviously did away with the horn altogether and all subs had to be on the fly through the box like it is today.

It was typical to use your 4th best defenseman as you LSM and sub them for your 3rd worst middie on defense. The other 2 middies were typically 2 way players. Around the early 90s the SSDM started to come into favor. Coaches would often use decently athletic middies that lacked stick skills and were not good enough to play in the 1st or 2nd (or 3rd) middie line and make them a SSDM. I know because I was one.

Again, I think Hayes was an innovator here as well, as I think he was one of the first coaches to have dedicated short stick middies. Their role was strictly defense and maybe gbs on faceoffs. But much like “fogos” as soon as it flipped to offense the SSDMs were expected to sprint to the box unless there was a clear fast break. But they were not expected to drive transition. This eventually lead to SSDM becoming a position that was coached, developed and recruited for, as opposed to something a middie would do to see the field (think special teams in FB. No one dreams of becoming a career special teams player besides punters and kickers, who are more like goalies or face off guys).

Brecht was one of the first coaches I’ve seen to see the advantage of having great athletes at the SSDM position (LSM has long been considered a position that requires above average athleticism). But having a “rope unit”, as it is now commonly called, that not only can play outstanding defense, but also push transition and create mismatches on offense, can be a huge advantage. You see it on most (but not all) teams now, but Brian is one of the coaches most known for using SSDMs in this way.

Any way, that’s a little bit about the origins and history of D Middies lol

Excellent. A couple of amplifications. Substitution horn lasted 'till the mid 80's I believe. But the specialization could be mitigated to a degree but not having a stoppage. Think RU's rope unit too dangerous for the opponent to try to sub out after a change in possession as they went downfield. Back when LSMs first appeared there was still a preference for size at defense. LSM would likely have been either been a little undersized HS defenseman with good mobility or an excellent athlete who might have only taken the game up in college. They didn't have 2500 HS programs back then.

 

[rufamily]

Not sure of the origin of the term rope unit, but I can tell you that the position has evolved greatly, and our current and former coaches have played a hand in it.

Up until I think the late 70s or early 80s, there was a substitution horn that you could blow at every whistle and run a new player or unit on the field. It historically was used mainly to swap middie lines.

I am pretty sure Coach Hayes s the first coach to run on a group of 3 long pole middies at the first horn in the defensive end., as nothing in the rules prevented it. So began the era of the LSM. It became widely adopted and frankly it really slowed the game down and turned it from an athletes game to one of specialization. Control freak coaches would blow the horn at every stoppage and have specialists for offense, defense, rides, clears, etc. very different from today’s game (witch is now the best it’s ever been and the closest to the way it is meant to be played IMO).

In the early to mid 80’s they changed the rule so that you could only use the horn if the ball went out in the end line. Around the same time they limited the number of long poles to 4. Eventually they obviously did away with the horn altogether and all subs had to be on the fly through the box like it is today.

It was typical to use your 4th best defenseman as you LSM and sub them for your 3rd worst middie on defense. The other 2 middies were typically 2 way players. Around the early 90s the SSDM started to come into favor. Coaches would often use decently athletic middies that lacked stick skills and were not good enough to play in the 1st or 2nd (or 3rd) middie line and make them a SSDM. I know because I was one.

Again, I think Hayes was an innovator here as well, as I think he was one of the first coaches to have dedicated short stick middies. Their role was strictly defense and maybe gbs on faceoffs. But much like “fogos” as soon as it flipped to offense the SSDMs were expected to sprint to the box unless there was a clear fast break. But they were not expected to drive transition. This eventually lead to SSDM becoming a position that was coached, developed and recruited for, as opposed to something a middie would do to see the field (think special teams in FB. No one dreams of becoming a career special teams player besides punters and kickers, who are more like goalies or face off guys).

Brecht was one of the first coaches I’ve seen to see the advantage of having great athletes at the SSDM position (LSM has long been considered a position that requires above average athleticism). But having a “rope unit”, as it is now commonly called, that not only can play outstanding defense, but also push transition and create mismatches on offense, can be a huge advantage. You see it on most (but not all) teams now, but Brian is one of the coaches most known for using SSDMs in this way.

Any way, that’s a little bit about the origins and history of D Middies lol

I actually think you have to give a decent amount of credit to Bill Tierney for the SSDM position. he changed the way people played defense and developed the slide and recovery system of defense that most man-to-man teams play. Tierney wanted to get the best offensive players on the field which oftentimes meant attackman, but realizing that he could not use them on defense he prepared a specialized group of men just to play defense. The whole concept of Tierney's defense was to make it as easy and repeatable as possible. This allowed him to have one group of players focus on the offensive end while the other focused on the defensive end. Coach Hayes was one of the first coaches to sub out a defenseman and insert a middie for the clear as well as several other things that we see everyday in lacrosse today.

 

[Jimpeg]

Not sure of the origin of the term rope unit, but I can tell you that the position has evolved greatly, and our current and former coaches have played a hand in it.

Up until I think the late 70s or early 80s, there was a substitution horn that you could blow at every whistle and run a new player or unit on the field. It historically was used mainly to swap middie lines.

I am pretty sure Coach Hayes s the first coach to run on a group of 3 long pole middies at the first horn in the defensive end., as nothing in the rules prevented it. So began the era of the LSM. It became widely adopted and frankly it really slowed the game down and turned it from an athletes game to one of specialization. Control freak coaches would blow the horn at every stoppage and have specialists for offense, defense, rides, clears, etc. very different from today’s game (witch is now the best it’s ever been and the closest to the way it is meant to be played IMO).

In the early to mid 80’s they changed the rule so that you could only use the horn if the ball went out in the end line. Around the same time they limited the number of long poles to 4. Eventually they obviously did away with the horn altogether and all subs had to be on the fly through the box like it is today.

It was typical to use your 4th best defenseman as you LSM and sub them for your 3rd worst middie on defense. The other 2 middies were typically 2 way players. Around the early 90s the SSDM started to come into favor. Coaches would often use decently athletic middies that lacked stick skills and were not good enough to play in the 1st or 2nd (or 3rd) middie line and make them a SSDM. I know because I was one.

Again, I think Hayes was an innovator here as well, as I think he was one of the first coaches to have dedicated short stick middies. Their role was strictly defense and maybe gbs on faceoffs. But much like “fogos” as soon as it flipped to offense the SSDMs were expected to sprint to the box unless there was a clear fast break. But they were not expected to drive transition. This eventually lead to SSDM becoming a position that was coached, developed and recruited for, as opposed to something a middie would do to see the field (think special teams in FB. No one dreams of becoming a career special teams player besides punters and kickers, who are more like goalies or face off guys).

Brecht was one of the first coaches I’ve seen to see the advantage of having great athletes at the SSDM position (LSM has long been considered a position that requires above average athleticism). But having a “rope unit”, as it is now commonly called, that not only can play outstanding defense, but also push transition and create mismatches on offense, can be a huge advantage. You see it on most (but not all) teams now, but Brian is one of the coaches most known for using SSDMs in this way.

Any way, that’s a little bit about the origins and history of D Middies lol

Rope unit reference started back in early 80"s with Hopkins D-Middie line noted the punishment given and taken when playing...just like ALI "Rope a Dope" at that time. and called the unit middle line the Rope unit... ......

 

[Caliknight]

I’ve played lacrosse since I was 5 years old. I’ve never heard the term rope unit until some time around 2014.

 

[Jimpeg]

...as my grandfather used to say, its always a good day when you learn something new...he never could tie the string on the back of helmet, he put tape on it...

​

 

[jreinsdorf]

The latest changes have been just amazing too. The shot clock and eliminating the knee down/motorcycle grip on the FO have just been so perfectly implemented imo. I think the game is basically perfect now.

 

[Laxing4life]

We don’t believe anything that Quint has to say on this forum…..

 

[mdk01]

The latest changes have been just amazing too. The shot clock and eliminating the knee down/motorcycle grip on the FO have just been so perfectly implemented imo. I think the game is basically perfect now.

Until the late 80s the ball was not on the ground on FOs. It was balanced on the lower walls between the two FOGOs sticks. I don't think the pinch and pop would have worked.

 

[Caliknight]

...as my grandfather used to say, its always a good day when you learn something new...he never could tie the string on the back of helmet, he put tape on it...

View embedded media

​

I’m going to dispute this. I was around the Hopkins program a lot as as kid. I played with guys in summer leagues who went there. That term was never used then and I don’t know anyone who would claim otherwise. Except Quint who I don’t think much of.

 

[Caliknight]

The latest changes have been just amazing too. The shot clock and eliminating the knee down/motorcycle grip on the FO have just been so perfectly implemented imo. I think the game is basically perfect now.

The equipment has made the game much better. It allows you to do things you never could 25 years ago.

 

[jreinsdorf]

Since we are on the subject and its fun to learn this stuff let me ask...was it only recently that the 10 man ride became adopted and was it Michigan who pioneered it? I tried to coach it last year to my sons team for about 5 minutes lol but you really need a VERY athletic goalie and ours was not the best fit even though he was a good stopper.

 

[mdk01]

Since we are on the subject and its fun to learn this stuff let me ask...was it only recently that the 10 man ride became adopted and was it Michigan who pioneered it? I tried to coach it last year to my sons team for about 5 minutes lol but you really need a VERY athletic goalie and ours was not the best fit even though he was a good stopper.

Definitely not pioneered by Michigan. Recently? Depends on your definition. At least 20 years, but that's a VERY rough guess.

 

[Caliknight]

No that’s been around for a long time. We used to practice it when I was in high school.

The difference now is it used to be used at the end of a game if you were losing and needed the ball back. Exposing an open goal was thought to be incredibly risky.

Now teams use it as a staple. Personally speaking I’d love to see us use it. Mullin is athletic and Kirst most certainly was too. He was great out of to e cage.

 

[DowntownT_Brown]

We don’t believe anything that Quint has to say on this forum…..

I would have thought Quint would have heard the term at least once in his four years at JHU if it was coined there but who knows.

 

[Caliknight]

Exactly.

He creating fiction. Hopkins never used that term in the 80s.

 

[rbled]

FWIW, I played since I was 6 years old and never heard that term until recently. Heck, at least on LI SSDM wasn’t even a position in HS until at least the early 90s. I had never seen a team I field a d middie line until college. The closest I had seen prior to that is sometimes teams had a 3rd middie line that was maybe a little more defensive minded (or offensively challenged depending on your perspective) and would get run when they needed a stop. But they weren’t specifically designated as “D Middies” and expected to come off when we got possession. Although they would typically have a short hook, but that’s life as a 3rd middie lol.

Side note, a dear friend and fellow line mate who tragically passed away recently at way too young an age, used to call our line the “Spotted Owls” because it was rarer see us on the field than to see an endangered spotted owl in the wild! lol.

 

[mattkamish]

The equipment has made the game much better. It allows you to do things you never could 25 years ago.

Like Golf!!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Especially for guys like us

 

[mattkamish]

Definitely not pioneered by Michigan. Recently? Depends on your definition. At least 20 years, but that's a VERY rough guess.

Michigan thinks they invented everything!!! Arrogant place…

 

[mattkamish]

FWIW, I played since I was 6 years old and never heard that term until recently. Heck, at least on LI SSDM wasn’t even a position in HS until at least the early 90s. I had never seen a team I field a d middie line until college. The closest I had seen prior to that is sometimes teams had a 3rd middie line that was maybe a little more defensive minded (or offensively challenged depending on your perspective) and would get run when they needed a stop. But they weren’t specifically designated as “D Middies” and expected to come off when we got possession. Although they would typically have a short hook, but that’s life as a 3rd middie lol.

Side note, a dear friend and fellow line mate who tragically passed away recently at way too young an age, used to call our line the “Spotted Owls” because it was rarer see us on the field than to see an endangered spotted owl in the wild! lol.

Sorry about your friend.

With that said, the Spotted Owl story is great.

 

[mdk01]

FWIW, I played since I was 6 years old and never heard that term until recently. Heck, at least on LI SSDM wasn’t even a position in HS until at least the early 90s. I had never seen a team I field a d middie line until college. The closest I had seen prior to that is sometimes teams had a 3rd middie line that was maybe a little more defensive minded (or offensively challenged depending on your perspective) and would get run when they needed a stop. But they weren’t specifically designated as “D Middies” and expected to come off when we got possession. Although they would typically have a short hook, but that’s life as a 3rd middie lol.

Side note, a dear friend and fellow line mate who tragically passed away recently at way too young an age, used to call our line the “Spotted Owls” because it was rarer see us on the field than to see an endangered spotted owl in the wild! lol.

There was a gradual transition. Up until the late 70's there was no such thing as a SSDM or LSM. Most colleges ran 3 midfield lines, because 2 wouldn't hold up for a whole game. 3rd line wouldn't necessarily get equal time, but more than the spotted owl. A 1-2-1-2-3 -1-2-1-2-3 rotation was not uncommon. And indeed, the 3rd line were usually good athletes but not offensive powerhouses and often played in man down situations. From there it went to multiple LSMs, which got eliminated by a rule change. Once it was a single LSM the SSDM was only a matter of time.

 

[Caliknight]

Like Golf!!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Especially for guys like us

My entire golf existence is about 6 years so I’m like the kids today. All I know is great equipment!

 

[Jimpeg]

There was a gradual transition. Up until the late 70's there was no such thing as a SSDM or LSM. Most colleges ran 3 midfield lines, because 2 wouldn't hold up for a whole game. 3rd line wouldn't necessarily get equal time, but more than the spotted owl. A 1-2-1-2-3 -1-2-1-2-3 rotation was not uncommon. And indeed, the 3rd line were usually good athletes but not offensive powerhouses and often played in man down situations. From there it went to multiple LSMs, which got eliminated by a rule change. Once it was a single LSM the SSDM was only a matter of time.

its was always interesting how you named each middie line to substitute.. coaches used school colors, players had their own names..the 3rd line was sometimes referred to as the rookie line, as most years it was the underclassman getting feet wet...