I attended Rutgers from 2000-2004 so I have seen the end of Bannon, Waters, and the rest up til now. When I was in school, we were fun and competitive but people weren't satisfied and rightfully so, i.e. we should be making the NCAAs not fighting for the NIT. My question is, obviously now we'd sign up for those 2001 and 2002 teams in a heart beat. Simply put, is this the worst era of Rutgers basketball? Rock bottom? Or has it ever been worse than this?
Question for long time fans
- Thread starter RUCONN
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but the Littlepage era was only 3 years...this has been going on for a while...the past 2 easily are similar to Littlepage and we have not been above 500 since 2006 so I think this is the worst period ever for RU basketball. RU was that far removed from a NCAA appearance in 1983
consider when I went to school 88-92, RU made two NCAAs and two NITs...we were a basketball school...expectations were high and those times had some of the most exciting games post 76 era. The RAC reputation was built on those years. There was a line that wrapped around the hallway of the RAC at 8 AM in the morning just to get your student tix for that months game so you didn't get sent up to the 300 section
Next year will likely be another 10-12 win season marking 3 in a row and the writing will be on the wall, just like with Littlepage, the AD will have to make a hard decision which really isn't that hard to make
consider when I went to school 88-92, RU made two NCAAs and two NITs...we were a basketball school...expectations were high and those times had some of the most exciting games post 76 era. The RAC reputation was built on those years. There was a line that wrapped around the hallway of the RAC at 8 AM in the morning just to get your student tix for that months game so you didn't get sent up to the 300 section
Next year will likely be another 10-12 win season marking 3 in a row and the writing will be on the wall, just like with Littlepage, the AD will have to make a hard decision which really isn't that hard to make
The biggest difference now is that there is total apathy among the alums and students who have either never known success in basketball or can barely remember it. Now, almost all but the most delusional fans find it difficult to envision a day when we can make the NCAA tournament, forget about making it regularly or making an NCAA tournament run.
Back then the memories of NCAA tournaments and first round NBA draft picks was not ancient history and there was a passionate young alum fan base. The failure to join the Big East coupled with the extreme losing of Littlepage led to a malaise and the crappy home schedules in the worst days of the A-10 led to some paltry crowds but there was not an acceptance that football was all that mattered and that basketball was something to be ignored. Although the specter of the Big East loomed large as it was at its zenith during Littlepage's years there wasn't the belief that our failures were institutional (budgets/facilities) that could not be overcome by simply hiring the right coach. Within weeks of canning Littlepage, hiring Wenzel and getting Keith Hughes and Earl Duncan there was excitement. Now, fans were not coming in droves to see us play Duquesne and St. Bonaventure in Wenzel's first year, but those that were there were passionate and within a year we had something like 2,700 student season tickets issued.
Back then the memories of NCAA tournaments and first round NBA draft picks was not ancient history and there was a passionate young alum fan base. The failure to join the Big East coupled with the extreme losing of Littlepage led to a malaise and the crappy home schedules in the worst days of the A-10 led to some paltry crowds but there was not an acceptance that football was all that mattered and that basketball was something to be ignored. Although the specter of the Big East loomed large as it was at its zenith during Littlepage's years there wasn't the belief that our failures were institutional (budgets/facilities) that could not be overcome by simply hiring the right coach. Within weeks of canning Littlepage, hiring Wenzel and getting Keith Hughes and Earl Duncan there was excitement. Now, fans were not coming in droves to see us play Duquesne and St. Bonaventure in Wenzel's first year, but those that were there were passionate and within a year we had something like 2,700 student season tickets issued.
1986 8-21
1987 8-20
1988 7-22
Wow, that was bad wasn't it? Luckily, few games were televised a wide audience.
Students were selling Page Must Go buttons for $1 in the Student section before we got dismantled by #1 Temple in '88.
1987 8-20
1988 7-22
Wow, that was bad wasn't it? Luckily, few games were televised a wide audience.
Students were selling Page Must Go buttons for $1 in the Student section before we got dismantled by #1 Temple in '88.
23-63, in what at the time was a VERY bad Atlantic 10. Very bad. Horrific. Awful. He won eight, eight and seven games, lost 20 every year, had a 16-game losing streak ... ugly, ugly, ugly. And I missed two home games in those three years. What was I thinking? Oh, right -- fan before I was a student. :)
And the A-10 was really, really bad back then. So bad that a team that really wasn't very good -- us -- went from the crapper to third place in 1989. This was before GW got good, before Calipari got UMass going ... it was WVU, Temple and dung.
The Littlepage era will be VERY hard to top for exactly how bad the teams were, but the era of pain and suffering we've been through more recently is much more brutal to take. It's almost as bad as Littlepage and is going on a lot longer.
This is why I never by the seven year stuff. Littlepage could have been here 30 years and he would not have won. You want seven years, you need to show something. That's why I am very concerned how this staff is doing. Another 11 win season next year puts Eddie in a tough spot. You gotta change the pattern at some point.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
This is why I never by the seven year stuff. Littlepage could have been here 30 years and he would not have won. You want seven years, you need to show something. That's why I am very concerned how this staff is doing. Another 11 win season next year puts Eddie in a tough spot. You gotta change the pattern at some point.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I think this is very close to the Littlepage era but in that era we were bad in every single game. A game like the Wisconsin game (although they were without Kaminsky) would never happen.
We also are in a much better league now.
However, I actually think the Littlepage teams payed harder but they had even less talent than we have now.
We also are in a much better league now.
However, I actually think the Littlepage teams payed harder but they had even less talent than we have now.
Interesting responses and thank you for educating me on the past.
It seems to me from what I am reading that this may be the worst era (error) of basketball that RU has endured. It seems like Littlepage was awful on the court but it was turned around pretty quickly, This has been going on for what is now 3 coaches and with no end in sight. not to mention, there has been off the court embarrassment starting with Bannon obviously. I don't see this turning around quickly like when Wenzel was brought in unless we pony up the cash for a real big time coach
It seems to me from what I am reading that this may be the worst era (error) of basketball that RU has endured. It seems like Littlepage was awful on the court but it was turned around pretty quickly, This has been going on for what is now 3 coaches and with no end in sight. not to mention, there has been off the court embarrassment starting with Bannon obviously. I don't see this turning around quickly like when Wenzel was brought in unless we pony up the cash for a real big time coach
Had we joined the Big East, I believe Tom Young would have stayed and we would never have had the Littlepage error.
Littlepage was far worse in my opinion. I used to be able to sit front row as a student as they drew less than 1000 consistently. The few fans there would yell at one of the guards not to shoot. Can't recall his nake. Those teams had little basketball IQ and got destroyed by weak A10 teams and I recall Higgins getting kicked off the team? And another guy Lloyd Moore eating himself off the team.
Firing waters for hill started this latest disappointment. Waters could coach but recruiting was his issue. Opposite with Hill. EJ to me is struggling with both at this moment and trending worse.
This post was edited on 2/14 8:53 PM by KnightInVA23
Firing waters for hill started this latest disappointment. Waters could coach but recruiting was his issue. Opposite with Hill. EJ to me is struggling with both at this moment and trending worse.
This post was edited on 2/14 8:53 PM by KnightInVA23
If we had said yes to the very first offer to join the big east, which was when it was being formed, RU would have had a seamless transition to the new league as an eastern power......we would have entered the big east as a team to be reckoned with, and would have remained as such....
Seton Hall would never have been invited.....you could then figure that some of the recruits that the hall got after a few years in the big east would have found their way to Rutgers, if RU would have pursued them as the lone team from jersey in the big east
to say that Tom Young would have remained as our coach is a no brainer.....he left because he could see the writing on the wall.....and that writing was that RU could not remain a strong team because they were in the wrong league.
Young left us in the lurch though, leaving very late like September or something I think. Not the best time to find a coach.
I got started with Foster. This is worse than Littlepaige --- as bad as it was, there wasn't the feeling of hopelessness I feel now. You knew it would change. After the embarassments of Bannon, FHJ, and Rice off the court......and being constantly bombarded by ESPN......you really get the feeling nothing will change this. If a guy like EJ can't make a dent....
I know it can, but it will take a Schiano+ effort, and I don't think the present administration has the desire.
I know it can, but it will take a Schiano+ effort, and I don't think the present administration has the desire.
Re: Question for long time fans--a 45 year perspective
I've followed RU MBB closely for 45 years and have been there through every high and low point and every point in between Absolutely, this point in Rutgers men's basketball is worse than the Littlepage era, in this sense. The very next season after Littlepage's worst year in '87-88 (7-22, 3-15 in Atlantic 10 conference), THE TEAM WENT TO THE NCAA TOURNAMENT!! Does anyone on planet earth think that next year's RU MBB team is going to the Dance? Following that '88-89 NCAA season, Bob Wenzel's teams went to the NIT, the NCAA again--our last appearance there-- and then the NIT. Unfortunately, his success didn't continue. Prior to Littlepage's three years ( a smart and decent guy whose skills were best suited to athletics administration rather than coaching and recruiting) the wonderfully successful 12 year tenure of Tom Young took place (albeit with a somewhat easier schedule), so Littlepage was sandwiched between two successful coaching stints, underscoring the fact that his time at RU was a major anomaly.
From that viewpoint, the present situation is worse than the Littlepage years, because our prospects are pretty bleak in the near future. However, I do not say that for the sake of fostering negativity. I know I'll take my lumps for sounding negative but all I'm really trying to say is that fans should be realistic and patient and not be unduly angry at Eddie or the kids. The current hole we are in is so deep that it's going to take years to even claw our way back to ground level. Nine seasons of mediocrity, now deteriorating into downright awfulness.The Mike Rice mess. Aging, inadequate facilities. Inadequate funding. A low regional and national reputation injurious to recruiting This team cannot play together, can't score from anywhere in the half court, can't get back on D, defend the three or stop guard penetration, can't shoot fouls. It's painful to watch.
I appreciate that a few fans try to find a little silver lining in this dark cloud in terms of next year's team, but I see no reason for optimism. Our best players are departing, in Mack and Jack. We have several returning second year players who have shown only some flashes of ability. There are some returning upperclassmen of modest skills, plus a crop of unproven rookies (yes, including Corey Sanders) and returning redshirts, none of whom have played a minute of varsity BB. No proven, go-to guys, a roster full of second stringers. I am not looking forward to next year in this rugged B1G conference.. However, things could start to get a bit better in year four; not terrific, but better. There'll be a lot of experience and some teams with minimal individual talent get better just through playing together a lot as a team
As for Eddie, I remain grateful that he even was even willing to wade into this swamp. In a sense, job one was to restore at least a modicum of credibility to our battered program, and Eddie brought deep RU roots, NBA creds and some class and panache. As for long term prospects of attaining even a modestly winning record and an NIT appearance, I have my doubts, like most others, but let's give the guy a chance. It's not like we have the reputation, money or support for this program to suddenly reel in a college BB coaching superstar.
I've followed RU MBB closely for 45 years and have been there through every high and low point and every point in between Absolutely, this point in Rutgers men's basketball is worse than the Littlepage era, in this sense. The very next season after Littlepage's worst year in '87-88 (7-22, 3-15 in Atlantic 10 conference), THE TEAM WENT TO THE NCAA TOURNAMENT!! Does anyone on planet earth think that next year's RU MBB team is going to the Dance? Following that '88-89 NCAA season, Bob Wenzel's teams went to the NIT, the NCAA again--our last appearance there-- and then the NIT. Unfortunately, his success didn't continue. Prior to Littlepage's three years ( a smart and decent guy whose skills were best suited to athletics administration rather than coaching and recruiting) the wonderfully successful 12 year tenure of Tom Young took place (albeit with a somewhat easier schedule), so Littlepage was sandwiched between two successful coaching stints, underscoring the fact that his time at RU was a major anomaly.
From that viewpoint, the present situation is worse than the Littlepage years, because our prospects are pretty bleak in the near future. However, I do not say that for the sake of fostering negativity. I know I'll take my lumps for sounding negative but all I'm really trying to say is that fans should be realistic and patient and not be unduly angry at Eddie or the kids. The current hole we are in is so deep that it's going to take years to even claw our way back to ground level. Nine seasons of mediocrity, now deteriorating into downright awfulness.The Mike Rice mess. Aging, inadequate facilities. Inadequate funding. A low regional and national reputation injurious to recruiting This team cannot play together, can't score from anywhere in the half court, can't get back on D, defend the three or stop guard penetration, can't shoot fouls. It's painful to watch.
I appreciate that a few fans try to find a little silver lining in this dark cloud in terms of next year's team, but I see no reason for optimism. Our best players are departing, in Mack and Jack. We have several returning second year players who have shown only some flashes of ability. There are some returning upperclassmen of modest skills, plus a crop of unproven rookies (yes, including Corey Sanders) and returning redshirts, none of whom have played a minute of varsity BB. No proven, go-to guys, a roster full of second stringers. I am not looking forward to next year in this rugged B1G conference.. However, things could start to get a bit better in year four; not terrific, but better. There'll be a lot of experience and some teams with minimal individual talent get better just through playing together a lot as a team
As for Eddie, I remain grateful that he even was even willing to wade into this swamp. In a sense, job one was to restore at least a modicum of credibility to our battered program, and Eddie brought deep RU roots, NBA creds and some class and panache. As for long term prospects of attaining even a modestly winning record and an NIT appearance, I have my doubts, like most others, but let's give the guy a chance. It's not like we have the reputation, money or support for this program to suddenly reel in a college BB coaching superstar.
Re: Question for long time fans--a 45 year perspective
Losing effects recruiting. Morale. Funding. Hurts the season ticket holders. Losing drives away fans, casual or otherwise.
The biggest hurdle we have as a program is selling the idea that "things will get better" after 10-13 win seasons, and judging from the Court Club post-mortem, the long-time fans are ready to cash out, and who can blame them?
If long-suffering fans understand see how deep of a hole we're in, parents, recruits, aau coaches certainly know this too.
At least Corey Sanders is here next fall. He's the most electrifying player to come to Rutgers. At least he'll provide a few highlights. If we can somehow land Kwe Parker in 2016 (maybe his situation is similar to Corey's), we can lose but at least play entertaining basketball where students will come out and support.
Losing effects recruiting. Morale. Funding. Hurts the season ticket holders. Losing drives away fans, casual or otherwise.
The biggest hurdle we have as a program is selling the idea that "things will get better" after 10-13 win seasons, and judging from the Court Club post-mortem, the long-time fans are ready to cash out, and who can blame them?
If long-suffering fans understand see how deep of a hole we're in, parents, recruits, aau coaches certainly know this too.
At least Corey Sanders is here next fall. He's the most electrifying player to come to Rutgers. At least he'll provide a few highlights. If we can somehow land Kwe Parker in 2016 (maybe his situation is similar to Corey's), we can lose but at least play entertaining basketball where students will come out and support.
Re: Question for long time fans--a 45 year perspective
this is a real good post and great point about RU making the NCAA right after the third Littlepage year. Its WORSE now because of the circumstances and the perception hole the program is in. We had made the NCAA tourney just 3 years before Littlepage. The reason people stopped coming to games is they actually cared about the product and it disgusted them. Now the fans go but their expectations are different so losing seasons are just the norm and don't bother them. Our true number in the fanbase is represented by the crowds of 3K or less we get for non conference games
[excerpt from a post above] "This team cannot play together, can't score from anywhere in the half court, can't get back on D, defend the three or stop guard penetration, can't shoot fouls. It's painful to watch."
The coaching staff has to take a hit for some of these flaws. Might not change the overall record, but it would make games more competitive and give the fans a sense that something is getting done right. Most Rutgers fans would have to scratch their head to come up with one strength this team possesses.
The coaching staff has to take a hit for some of these flaws. Might not change the overall record, but it would make games more competitive and give the fans a sense that something is getting done right. Most Rutgers fans would have to scratch their head to come up with one strength this team possesses.
Took me a second too but that post was posted 3 years ago.
We are in a much tougher conference right now.
If we were in the Atlantic 10 like the old days we would be headed to the NCAAs way more often.
If we were in the Atlantic 10 like the old days we would be headed to the NCAAs way more often.
the post is 3 years old...not sure why you are reviving it, the coach and period I was talking about was Eddie Jordan
Not sure why RUBaseball dredged this up and posted as if a current thread. Bad forum etiquette but I am guessing a mistake.
But... the thread, after I realized the date, got me to thinking. The original post was two thirds into our first year of B1G play and Eddie's second year, a day after a 10 pt loss to Purdue and a month removed from the Wisconsin upset (and our last win of that season). My recollection was that morale was way down at that point (was probably ever since the UL beatdown the previous season). We still had to endure Eddie's third and final season. While Pike's first two seasons are less then mediocre just looking at the numbers, what a different feeling for the program's direction and what the future holds.
But... the thread, after I realized the date, got me to thinking. The original post was two thirds into our first year of B1G play and Eddie's second year, a day after a 10 pt loss to Purdue and a month removed from the Wisconsin upset (and our last win of that season). My recollection was that morale was way down at that point (was probably ever since the UL beatdown the previous season). We still had to endure Eddie's third and final season. While Pike's first two seasons are less then mediocre just looking at the numbers, what a different feeling for the program's direction and what the future holds.
In the 50's we lost 90 games in 6 years under Donald White when we didn't play 30 game seasons. Of course, freshman couldn't play on the varsity either, but it probably wouldn't matter for us anyway.
